Grisee08
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Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:37 pm

I'm not sure if this belongs here or tech/ops, but I was wondering if DL purchased the ex-Saudi Arabian MD-90s to use for parts? It's obvious they don't fly them, but given the large fleet of 717s, they technically COULD fly them (717 pilots could fly them with the 717 Type Rating). But last I heard, they were in such terrible shape, that the airframes themselves are worth more for parts than the airframes themselves are worth. They are excellent for Engines, Switches, Gauges, VSCF Electrical systems, etc.

TBH, I am trying to figure out if they even purchased them, or if they became familiar with the Scrapper's Torch.

As for the 717, Is Delta flying all of them, or did they set aside a 717 or 5 for use as parts only airplanes. I was informed that as of 2006, Boeing was prepared to support the airplane for at least 20 years. (So, they would support the airplane in terms of maintenance until at least 2026), which would make the oldest 717 at least 27 years old before retirement would even be considered. Anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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n471wn
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:41 pm

All the 717’s are operational
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:52 pm

According to planespotters.net, whose data may not be completely-current on this type, virtually all 29 of the Saudi MD90s were sold to Aersale, and as a broad generalization because I wasn't going to count each frame, about 2/3 of them have been scrapped, with the rest stored at ROW. You can go to planespotters, pull up Saudi Arabian Airlines, click on the link for the 29 historical MD90s, and see what planespotters thinks about each one. None appear to have been bought by DL.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:06 pm

Grisee08 wrote:
I'm not sure if this belongs here or tech/ops, but I was wondering if DL purchased the ex-Saudi Arabian MD-90s to use for parts? It's obvious they don't fly them, but given the large fleet of 717s, they technically COULD fly them (717 pilots could fly them with the 717 Type Rating).


I don't understand your reasoning here. Delta wouldn't need to use 717 pilots to fly the former Saudi Arabian MD-90s, if they had them. Delta already has a number of MD-90 pilots already flying the MD-90.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:16 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
Grisee08 wrote:
I'm not sure if this belongs here or tech/ops, but I was wondering if DL purchased the ex-Saudi Arabian MD-90s to use for parts? It's obvious they don't fly them, but given the large fleet of 717s, they technically COULD fly them (717 pilots could fly them with the 717 Type Rating).


I don't understand your reasoning here. Delta wouldn't need to use 717 pilots to fly the former Saudi Arabian MD-90s, if they had them. Delta already has a number of MD-90 pilots already flying the MD-90.

That's why the OP specifically mentioned SV's MD-90. Saudi's MD-90 has a different cockpit setup than everyone else's MD-90, which makes its second hand market next to nil. However IIRC the cockpit setup is more akin to 717 design, hence the OP's question.

Michael
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:20 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
Grisee08 wrote:
I'm not sure if this belongs here or tech/ops, but I was wondering if DL purchased the ex-Saudi Arabian MD-90s to use for parts? It's obvious they don't fly them, but given the large fleet of 717s, they technically COULD fly them (717 pilots could fly them with the 717 Type Rating).


I don't understand your reasoning here. Delta wouldn't need to use 717 pilots to fly the former Saudi Arabian MD-90s, if they had them. Delta already has a number of MD-90 pilots already flying the MD-90.


Saudi MD-90s are fitted with the glass displays and it is essentially a 717 cockpit on those aircraft. Delta's MD-90s share a cockpit layout with the MD-88.
 
Grisee08
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:39 pm

wjcandee wrote:
According to planespotters.net, whose data may not be completely-current on this type, virtually all 29 of the Saudi MD90s were sold to Aersale, and as a broad generalization because I wasn't going to count each frame, about 2/3 of them have been scrapped, with the rest stored at ROW. You can go to planespotters, pull up Saudi Arabian Airlines, click on the link for the 29 historical MD90s, and see what planespotters thinks about each one. None appear to have been bought by DL.


My bad, I feel like an idiot now. I don't know why I thought DL bought them. I guess I read some bad intel somewhere. I knew that they weren't flying them, but I don't know why I thought they had bought them. I may have read somewhere about DL buying up old frames of another fleet type for use as parts. I knew they were trying to snag up every available 717, of that I am sure. It's well known that many airlines who currently operate the type are using the old sniffer to try and get them before another airline does. IIRC, HA and DL are in a big competition to get any available 717. I actually found it ironic at one point, but then again, today, they cost less to acquire than they did 12 years ago. Does anyone know how much it costs for one frame used as opposed to the $25-30 million for an FFF (Factory Fresh Frame)? If I may predict the future, I see DL getting any used 717s over HA. DL has more cash, and can bid more than HA could (I could be wrong on this.) If I were in the market for a used 717, I wouldn't pay more than $5m each (give or take $1m per 4,000 cycles after the initial $5m). Other factors in price could also be A) Where the A/C spent the majority of its life (a frame that spent most of its life near salt water (Hawai'ian Islands) may be worth less than a frame that spent most of its life in Atlanta), B) MX previously performed on the A/C (any significant frame work vs. no significant frame work) etc.
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:39 am

ikolkyo wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
Grisee08 wrote:
I'm not sure if this belongs here or tech/ops, but I was wondering if DL purchased the ex-Saudi Arabian MD-90s to use for parts? It's obvious they don't fly them, but given the large fleet of 717s, they technically COULD fly them (717 pilots could fly them with the 717 Type Rating).


I don't understand your reasoning here. Delta wouldn't need to use 717 pilots to fly the former Saudi Arabian MD-90s, if they had them. Delta already has a number of MD-90 pilots already flying the MD-90.


Saudi MD-90s are fitted with the glass displays and it is essentially a 717 cockpit on those aircraft. Delta's MD-90s share a cockpit layout with the MD-88.

That is fascinating. But now DL has 717s... But if they bought any of these used MD-90s, it would be a nightmare for pilot scheduling... but still fascinating it COULD happen (I don't believe it will).

I speculate DL is buying the spare parts as they need them or when the price is right.

Lightsaber
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deltal1011man
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:13 pm

Grisee08 wrote:
I'm not sure if this belongs here or tech/ops, but I was wondering if DL purchased the ex-Saudi Arabian MD-90s to use for parts? It's obvious they don't fly them, but given the large fleet of 717s, they technically COULD fly them (717 pilots could fly them with the 717 Type Rating). But last I heard, they were in such terrible shape, that the airframes themselves are worth more for parts than the airframes themselves are worth. They are excellent for Engines, Switches, Gauges, VSCF Electrical systems, etc.

TBH, I am trying to figure out if they even purchased them, or if they became familiar with the Scrapper's Torch.

As for the 717, Is Delta flying all of them, or did they set aside a 717 or 5 for use as parts only airplanes. I was informed that as of 2006, Boeing was prepared to support the airplane for at least 20 years. (So, they would support the airplane in terms of maintenance until at least 2026), which would make the oldest 717 at least 27 years old before retirement would even be considered. Anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

yes and no. They DMS hasn't bought any total airframes like they have done with other types that I know of but some of the former SV parts have made their way into the Delta system. Engine parts specifically.

As wjcandee pointed out Airsale ended up buying most of them.
 
DL757NYC
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:31 pm

Delta passed on them because of the cockpit but the 717 e has a similar cockpit hindsight is 20/20
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:11 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
Grisee08 wrote:
I'm not sure if this belongs here or tech/ops, but I was wondering if DL purchased the ex-Saudi Arabian MD-90s to use for parts? It's obvious they don't fly them, but given the large fleet of 717s, they technically COULD fly them (717 pilots could fly them with the 717 Type Rating).


I don't understand your reasoning here. Delta wouldn't need to use 717 pilots to fly the former Saudi Arabian MD-90s, if they had them. Delta already has a number of MD-90 pilots already flying the MD-90.


Saudi MD-90s are fitted with the glass displays and it is essentially a 717 cockpit on those aircraft. Delta's MD-90s share a cockpit layout with the MD-88.



Even with the similar flight deck are they in fact cross-qualifiable on the same type certification?
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ikolkyo
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:12 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:

I don't understand your reasoning here. Delta wouldn't need to use 717 pilots to fly the former Saudi Arabian MD-90s, if they had them. Delta already has a number of MD-90 pilots already flying the MD-90.


Saudi MD-90s are fitted with the glass displays and it is essentially a 717 cockpit on those aircraft. Delta's MD-90s share a cockpit layout with the MD-88.



Even with the similar flight deck are they in fact cross-qualifiable on the same type certification?


Are you talking about MD-90/MD-88? I’m pretty sure pilots fly both aircraft at DL.
 
Alias1024
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:35 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:

I don't understand your reasoning here. Delta wouldn't need to use 717 pilots to fly the former Saudi Arabian MD-90s, if they had them. Delta already has a number of MD-90 pilots already flying the MD-90.


Saudi MD-90s are fitted with the glass displays and it is essentially a 717 cockpit on those aircraft. Delta's MD-90s share a cockpit layout with the MD-88.



Even with the similar flight deck are they in fact cross-qualifiable on the same type certification?

Yes. The MD-88s and MD-90s is one bid category at Delta. Pilots are qualified on both. The 717 is a different group due to the major differences in the flight deck. All three are actually DC-9 type ratings.
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northstardc4m
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:18 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

Saudi MD-90s are fitted with the glass displays and it is essentially a 717 cockpit on those aircraft. Delta's MD-90s share a cockpit layout with the MD-88.



Even with the similar flight deck are they in fact cross-qualifiable on the same type certification?


Are you talking about MD-90/MD-88? I’m pretty sure pilots fly both aircraft at DL.


No im asking about the SV MD-90 and 717.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:44 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:


Even with the similar flight deck are they in fact cross-qualifiable on the same type certification?


Are you talking about MD-90/MD-88? I’m pretty sure pilots fly both aircraft at DL.


No im asking about the SV MD-90 and 717.


I'm not sure if Glass cockpit MD-90s and 717s can be flown by the same pilot group. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible,
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:47 pm

Well im asking if they are the same overall type cert for pilots (aka just need difference training), or not... im guessing not, there must be changes to switch position and the like.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
Alias1024
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:52 am

Yes, according to the FAA they are the same type rating.
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MO11
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Re: Delta and Saudi Arabian MD-90s (and a 717 question)

Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:55 am

northstardc4m wrote:
Well im asking if they are the same overall type cert for pilots (aka just need difference training), or not... im guessing not, there must be changes to switch position and the like.


DC-9 type rating covers everything DC-9, MD-80, MD-90, and 717 (in the US).

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