Flyawa
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Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:42 pm

Just watched Virgin 23 overtake United 935 from the ground in Provo, Utah at 4:20PM MST. Both are 789s, with UA at fl410 and VS at fl400. UA departed LHR at 1341 local, and VS departed 36 minutes later at 1415 local. ETAs at LAX, VS at 1623 and UA at 1631. Contrails were nearly overlapping from the ground. Hard to see the vertical separation also, at only 1000ft. Love to watch the Europe flyovers in and out of LAX all year from here in the mountaintops. Cheers.
Last edited by Flyawa on Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jubguy3
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:53 pm

Oh my God. I was in millcreek and was talking about this with my parents! I saw two aircraft in parallel, looked it up in FR24 and saw they were two dreamliner heading from LHR to LAX. Cool stuff. A BA747 to SAN was pretty close to it too.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:00 am

Another reason why Virgin Atlantic is better ;)

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Flyawa
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:05 am

jubguy3 wrote:
Oh my God. I was in millcreek and was talking about this with my parents! I saw two aircraft in parallel, looked it up in FR24 and saw they were two dreamliner heading from LHR to LAX. Cool stuff. A BA747 to SAN was pretty close to it too.


Cool indeed. Just watching the VS pass the BA south of LAS at the same fl380!
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Boeingphan
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:12 am

How does one make up 36 min? I find this totally fascinating and what a cool find Flyawa! Cheers
 
amcnd
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:17 am

I would like to see the fuel burn difference between these two flights..
 
mcdu
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:24 am

Boeingphan wrote:
How does one make up 36 min? I find this totally fascinating and what a cool find Flyawa! Cheers


Looks like UA is still arriving early so they are most likely flying at their best economy speed for Fuel savings. Also with limited gates at LAX it is often better to arrive on schedule versus a way early arrival and then a long wait for a gate. Passengers don’t mind arriving on time if they perceive they are in motion constantly. Arrive on the ground 30 minutes early and wait 29 minutes for a gate to park leaves them with a bad feeling of being “late”.

VS may not have an issue with getting a gate and they can press on at a higher speed.

Another factor could also have been oceanic routing One may have been on a route to avoid turbulence and they just happened to meet up out west.

Lots of variables in that length of flight that could contribute to the time difference.
 
Flyawa
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:27 am

I haven't looked at the graphs for speed and flight levels, but the routings appear similar abeam Iceland and down the west side of Hudson Bay, however VS flew further west in Alberta abeam Saskatoon, while UA flew over Regina, with both back on the same routing over northern Utah..
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Bricktop
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:35 am

Avgeek technology sure has come a long way! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
ikramerica
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:40 am

When I'm in a premium cabin long haul I don't mind spending a bit extra time in the air and getting my money's worth in drink and service. It beats arriving early and waiting for a gate where they have the avod off and no service at all.
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EA CO AS
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:54 am

ikramerica wrote:
When I'm in a premium cabin long haul I don't mind spending a bit extra time in the air and getting my money's worth in drink and service. It beats arriving early and waiting for a gate where they have the avod off and no service at all.


This. I don't mind getting in a little early, but blocking in 20-30 minutes early - or more - is usually an inconvenience.
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Flyawa
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:54 am

Bricktop wrote:
Avgeek technology sure has come a long way! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Yes, it has for this avgeek! The average person here in Utah is oblivious to the hundreds of folks passing overhead all day long. My final spots of the day are NAX7091 CPH-LAX, its contrails lit by the setting sun 7.5 miles up, 20 minutes after sunset here on the ground in Provo, and ANZ1 LHR-LAX at dusk..
Last edited by Flyawa on Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jubguy3
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:01 am

Flyawa wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Avgeek technology sure has come a long way! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Yes, it has for this avgeek! The average person here in Utah is oblivious to the hundreds of folks passing overhead all day long. My final spot of the day is NAX7091 CPH-LAX, its contrails lit by the setting sun 7.5 miles up, 20 minutes after sunset here on the ground in Provo..[code][/code]


Do you do photography, and if so, do you post them here? I would love to see them!

Aeromexico SLC-GDL starts on the 15th. You should check it out!
 
Flyawa
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:10 am

jubguy3 wrote:
Flyawa wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Avgeek technology sure has come a long way! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Yes, it has for this avgeek! The average person here in Utah is oblivious to the hundreds of folks passing overhead all day long. My final spot of the day is NAX7091 CPH-LAX, its contrails lit by the setting sun 7.5 miles up, 20 minutes after sunset here on the ground in Provo..[code][/code]


Do you do photography, and if so, do you post them here? I would love to see them!

Aeromexico SLC-GDL starts on the 15th. You should check it out!


Sorry, not equipped for photo. Will keep an eye for AM, thanks!
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atcsundevil
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:44 am

Boeingphan wrote:
How does one make up 36 min? I find this totally fascinating and what a cool find Flyawa! Cheers

Not speaking to this situation specifically, but there a lot of factors involved.

Different altitudes — even only 1,000ft difference — can have drastically different winds. It's not uncommon to sometimes have as much as a 30-50kt difference at two adjacent flight levels. It can also vary in direction, so an aircraft at one flight level may have a slightly better tailwind than an aircraft just above or below.

Weather factors aside, flights regularly get shortcuts, although international flights generally get them a little less frequently due to the logistics and planning involved, but that's a different topic. Occasionally pilots will ask, but generally shortcuts are given for operational efficiencies. Maybe in this case, UAL departed in a push requiring him to stay on his route, but maybe VIR was on the back end of the push and got a sweet shortcut.

It also depends on whatever speed they've filed for. Even like types can have fairly dramatic speed and performance differences, because obviously it depends on how the pilots are flying it.
 
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zeke
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Re: Dueling 787s, VS overtakes UA en route LHR-LAX

Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:47 am

Why the non standard level ?
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