BREECH
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Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:26 am

I just read... and I'm not saying where, that A340-500 and -600 had an option of "lower deck space" with a bar and a couch. And also read that A350 has this option. That was the first time I heard about it. Seriously? Some passenger space on the lower decks? Personally I think it's not tall enough, but Airbus has surprised me many times before. Could someone in the know, please, confirm or disprove this?
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klakzky123
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:33 am

Is this the same lower deck area that LH uses for bathrooms on the A340? I'm sure it couldve been used for something like a lounge but moving areas of the main cabin that don't have seats like galleys and bathrooms seems like more productive use of that space.
 
axiom
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:33 am

The A330/40 has an optional downstairs lav. I've encountered them on the LH 346 and the MT 332. It's a modular design - don't see why or couldn't be designed as a lounge space.
 
sevenair
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:21 am

A joint toilet block and socialising space would be great. Dare I say put in a mini shop? It would make the 'big troll' duties for the cabin crew more worthwhile and generate extra revenue. You make a penny whilst the passengers spend theirs ;)

I appreciate that it's valueable cargo space but Thomas Cook surely won't need the extra cargo haul and moving toilets out of the main cabin means more revenue seats. Win-win.
 
hz747300
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:56 am

I just flew Hong Kong Airlines and there was a business class bar on the A332. The route was HKG-YVR r/t. It is actually manned and I did see people chatting at it like at a bar 37000 below. Impressed.
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JannEejit
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:31 am

The lower deck modular space was/is a customer option offered by Airbus on the A330/340 series. IIRC the available options included, toilets, a retail or bar space or a crew rest cabin. I experienced it on an Airtours A330 flight in the early 2000's, it added a real sense of space on board.
 
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Wildlander
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:22 am

Before the advent of the "lie flat" then "full-flat" premium seating, Amongst others ideas, Airbus promoted the concept of lower deck sleeping accommodation on (at least) the A340-600. Apart from creating a superior sleeping environment the notion was that the main cabin premium seating could be at a less generous pitch, the space gained compensating for the need to create a stairway at door 2R. Cargo managers are never amused by the thought of losing containerised revenue space and the rapid evolution of seating products ended whatever interest there had been.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:47 am

Wildlander wrote:
Cargo managers are never amused by the thought of losing containerised revenue space and the rapid evolution of seating products ended whatever interest there had been.


I think the A346 was probably the best aircraft for downstairs accommodation. It is a long aircraft, relatively speaking, so giving up cargo volume might not be such an issue. If the space would be used for more F or J seating that the airline felt could actually be sold, then it makes sense. If, like Airtours, you make money by selling more holidays, using every inch for passenger accommodation, rather than galleys and toilets makes sense. Airtours were one of the few 3-3-3 A330 operators.

Boeing hasn't ever seemed so keen on crew rest in the cargo deck. The 747 is in the tail and the 777 in the crown. Similarly, the 787 and XWB have crew rest in the crown, which seems to be the default these days. Boeing did experiment with passenger accommodation in the crown of the 747, IIRC the plan was to put EY Residence style suites up there, but to seat passengers in regular seats on the main/upper deck during take-off/landing.
 
twicearound
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:14 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
Wildlander wrote:
Cargo managers are never amused by the thought of losing containerised revenue space and the rapid evolution of seating products ended whatever interest there had been.


I think the A346 was probably the best aircraft for downstairs accommodation. It is a long aircraft, relatively speaking, so giving up cargo volume might not be such an issue. If the space would be used for more F or J seating that the airline felt could actually be sold, then it makes sense. If, like Airtours, you make money by selling more holidays, using every inch for passenger accommodation, rather than galleys and toilets makes sense. Airtours were one of the few 3-3-3 A330 operators.

Boeing hasn't ever seemed so keen on crew rest in the cargo deck. The 747 is in the tail and the 777 in the crown. Similarly, the 787 and XWB have crew rest in the crown, which seems to be the default these days. Boeing did experiment with passenger accommodation in the crown of the 747, IIRC the plan was to put EY Residence style suites up there, but to seat passengers in regular seats on the main/upper deck during take-off/landing.


The crew rest option on the 767 is in the cargo deck.
 
BREECH
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:56 pm

WOW! I didn't even know about that option. Are there photos/videos of that space anywhere?
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Jayafe
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:32 pm

BREECH wrote:
WOW! I didn't even know about that option. Are there photos/videos of that space anywhere?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ybF6zbFao
 
BREECH
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:04 pm

Jayafe wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ybF6zbFao

Ah, nice. Thank you!
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
Arion640
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:15 pm

Didn’t the 747 have some sort of lower deck galley with an elevator?
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NWADTWE16
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:16 pm

love this idea, a string of lavs is exactly whats needed for long haul. Having flown the A380 now, especially AF configuration on the upper deck, this is now my favorite plane. The flight did not feel long, I was able to move around quite a distance multiple times, shop, sip wine with the crew and their little "Duo" offering in the back is the ultimate secret. Didn't mean to go off topic, but this should be on many aircraft from a passenger point of view
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
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DDR
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:20 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Didn’t the 747 have some sort of lower deck galley with an elevator?

Yes. So did the DC-10 and L-1011.
 
airplanenut
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:55 pm

Airbus offered lower deck space to create a synagogue on board El Al planes when trying to win an order some 2 decades ago. The linked article mentions an A330 order which obviously never came to fruition, but I've always thought that to be a creative use of some extra space.

"The French plane maker also offered earlier to equip the lower decks of its A-340 long-haul planes with a synagogue, though El Al said that wasn't among its requirements. "

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/oct/28 ... s/fi-26993
Why yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist...
 
spacecadet
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:14 pm

DDR wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Didn’t the 747 have some sort of lower deck galley with an elevator?

Yes. So did the DC-10 and L-1011.


L-1011 actually had lower deck lounges: https://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2013/1 ... nger-jets/

That link even references a forum thread here, though I'm linking where I'm linking because it has pics.

If the L-1011 can cram a lower deck lounge in (and it actually looks pretty spacious), I don't see why an A340 couldn't.
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FGITD
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:37 pm

twicearound wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
Wildlander wrote:
Cargo managers are never amused by the thought of losing containerised revenue space and the rapid evolution of seating products ended whatever interest there had been.



Boeing hasn't ever seemed so keen on crew rest in the cargo deck. The 747 is in the tail and the 777 in the crown. Similarly, the 787 and XWB have crew rest in the crown, which seems to be the default these days. Boeing did experiment with passenger accommodation in the crown of the 747, IIRC the plan was to put EY Residence style suites up there, but to seat passengers in regular seats on the main/upper deck during take-off/landing.


The crew rest option on the 767 is in the cargo deck.


The cabin crew rest area on 772 can also be in the rear cargo hold, optionally.

The 77w and 787 have both forward and aft rests, one for cockpit and one for cabin. The 77W cabin crew rest is a palace compared to the 787.
 
vfw614
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:54 pm

Isn't the number of peopl allowed downstairs limited to a rather low number? I seem to remember signage to that effect from my Lufthansa A340-600 flights. Or is that just Lufthansa?
 
trex8
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:02 pm

Question. My understanding is that the lower hold as far as containers and pallets are limited to 64in height. Even allowing a few more inches for the container itself those lavs seem tall enough for a tall person or are they lower than the main deck ones in height? I cant believe they made the floor thinner there or theres so much ceiling cladding in a regular cargo hold, so how does that work?
 
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Wildlander
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:26 pm

In the few A330s built with lower deck lavatories and on the DLH A340-600s the hold floor structure was re-engineered to provide adequate headroom. The cost and effort needed to restore this to a regular underfloor hold configuration for a future operator or different route network was another reason why the option was not more popular.
 
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Wildlander
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:27 pm

In the few A330s built with lower deck lavatories and on the DLH A340-600s the hold floor structure was re-engineered to provide adequate headroom. The cost and effort needed to restore this to a regular underfloor hold configuration for a future operator or different route network was another reason why the option was not more popular.
 
777PHX
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:18 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
Wildlander wrote:
Cargo managers are never amused by the thought of losing containerised revenue space and the rapid evolution of seating products ended whatever interest there had been.


Boeing hasn't ever seemed so keen on crew rest in the cargo deck. The 747 is in the tail and the 777 in the crown. Similarly, the 787 and XWB have crew rest in the crown, which seems to be the default these days. Boeing did experiment with passenger accommodation in the crown of the 747, IIRC the plan was to put EY Residence style suites up there, but to seat passengers in regular seats on the main/upper deck during take-off/landing.


IIRC, the 777 crown rest was a new development for the 777W/77L. Older 777s have their crew rest on the main deck. AA's is near 3L/3R on the 77E.
 
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Ty134A
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:38 pm

I still remember frlm my childhood, when the MD-11 was new, thst it was offered with a complete pax cabin in the forward lower deck section. It even had windows. I remember it ad it was yesterday, even on the cover of a Germsn "Luftfahrt" magazine. But now I can't find anything about it.

L1011s and DC-10s seemd to have had lower deck bars, L1011 for sure, DC-10 maybe. At least one L1011 of PSA had lower deck stsirs IL86 style, since the Soviet union wanted L1011 but then opted for ILW. Ilyushins have a lot of life going on in the lower deck. They hsve a HUGE galley, lifts and ILW had their carry on cargo holds and the three air stsirs built into it. Some IL9 of the Rusdian Presidential Fleet have lower deck galleys, lifts and even one has an airstair bulit ito it. I've used it and also rode the galley lift on several occasions.

A340/330s had crew rest containers as well, which were placed at the forward most positiln and accessable via a door, just like a closet from the cabin, it offered a lot of space/a few beds. If not needed, they coild be removed rather quickly. The Pratt powered TP 332s still havw theit OS crewrest containers on them...

Here a video of the lower deck IL9 galley and me riding the lift :-)

https://youtu.be/UUf-MXfEyUs. Starts at 16:10
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Arion640
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:40 pm

DDR wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Didn’t the 747 have some sort of lower deck galley with an elevator?

Yes. So did the DC-10 and L-1011.


I'd seen the 747 one in executive decision and now you mention it, the DC10 one in Commando.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75.

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kanban
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:15 am

Strange.. on one hand we have the crowd that wants lie-flat seats and cocooning walls or cubicles to prevent any accidental contact with other humans, and then we have a group (and being A-nets probably the same group) that thinks there should be a social area, bar and disco to pick up hotties and retreat to their cubicle.. let's see we tried social areas on the clippers, Zeppelins, the strato-cruisers, the early 747 and guess what it never panned out. the airlines think of profit and the next generation will have five high coffin style "seating", sensory immersion via IV, and catheters.
 
Prinair
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:45 am

The lower deck was advertised as the “Panorama Deck” on the MD11.
I have a picture of an ad for it. It would have had windows hence the marketing name.
PRINAIR - Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:35 am

kanban wrote:
Strange.. on one hand we have the crowd that wants lie-flat seats and cocooning walls or cubicles to prevent any accidental contact with other humans, and then we have a group (and being A-nets probably the same group) that thinks there should be a social area, bar and disco to pick up hotties and retreat to their cubicle.. let's see we tried social areas on the clippers, Zeppelins, the strato-cruisers, the early 747 and guess what it never panned out. the airlines think of profit and the next generation will have five high coffin style "seating", sensory immersion via IV, and catheters.


As funny as that may sound, and as much as we have this constant agrument against VLA's that could indeed exploit their capacity in more inventive ways, as the 747 and A380 have been marketed throughout their respoective histories; it still comes back to this compelling argument from the bean counters, that if you can't stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap then it ain't worth it. I always did wonder why when they described the advent of the 747 as the great era of affordable mass people transport, why some 47 years later I still can't afford to fly on one and why 'mass transportation' means a loco 737 or A320 service ?
 
777PHX
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:46 am

Arion640 wrote:
DDR wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Didn’t the 747 have some sort of lower deck galley with an elevator?

Yes. So did the DC-10 and L-1011.


I'd seen the 747 one in executive decision and now you mention it, the DC10 one in Commando.


I think it was an option for the classic 747s. NW was one that took the option on their 747-200s.
 
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DABEAR
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:21 am

The PSA Lockheed L-1011 TriStar had the below deck lounge in the forward cargo compartment. They beefed up the flooring, had external access on the port side for passengers to board. Below deck compartments for luggage and bags. Plus the entire cabin was pretty much a lounge with areas that people could sit at tables with facing seats. A staircase led down to the below deck lounge. Gorgeous, bright colors on the inside of the plane. Such a shame they sold them...
 
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DDR
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:24 am

Duplicate post. Please delete.
Last edited by DDR on Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DDR
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:25 am

DDR wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
DDR wrote:
Yes. So did the DC-10 and L-1011.


I'd seen the 747 one in executive decision and now you mention it, the DC10 one in Commando.


We used to have some fun in the DC-10 lower deck galley lol
 
grbauc
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:28 am

kanban wrote:
Strange.. on one hand we have the crowd that wants lie-flat seats and cocooning walls or cubicles to prevent any accidental contact with other humans, and then we have a group (and being A-nets probably the same group) that thinks there should be a social area, bar and disco to pick up hotties and retreat to their cubicle.. let's see we tried social areas on the clippers, Zeppelins, the strato-cruisers, the early 747 and guess what it never panned out. the airlines think of profit and the next generation will have five high coffin style "seating", sensory immersion via IV, and catheters.


the two groups has you have put them can and do coincide in my opinion. When in my seat i want to be alone when I choose to be out of it I might want to visit and chat.. they both go together perfect ;)
 
Gingersnap
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:53 am

777PHX wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
Wildlander wrote:
Cargo managers are never amused by the thought of losing containerised revenue space and the rapid evolution of seating products ended whatever interest there had been.


Boeing hasn't ever seemed so keen on crew rest in the cargo deck. The 747 is in the tail and the 777 in the crown. Similarly, the 787 and XWB have crew rest in the crown, which seems to be the default these days. Boeing did experiment with passenger accommodation in the crown of the 747, IIRC the plan was to put EY Residence style suites up there, but to seat passengers in regular seats on the main/upper deck during take-off/landing.


IIRC, the 777 crown rest was a new development for the 777W/77L. Older 777s have their crew rest on the main deck. AA's is near 3L/3R on the 77E.


Somewhat correct. Some older 777s had crewrests retrofitted into the crown at some point. I also distinctly remember an AZ 772 at Cambridge post-delivery that was in the process of a crown crew rest install by Marshalls Aerospace, when I flew in their on my solo cross country for my PPL.

I was also the last arrival in before a KL 763, so that shows how long ago that was!
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hz747300
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:17 am

grbauc wrote:
kanban wrote:
Strange.. on one hand we have the crowd that wants lie-flat seats and cocooning walls or cubicles to prevent any accidental contact with other humans, and then we have a group (and being A-nets probably the same group) that thinks there should be a social area, bar and disco to pick up hotties and retreat to their cubicle.. let's see we tried social areas on the clippers, Zeppelins, the strato-cruisers, the early 747 and guess what it never panned out. the airlines think of profit and the next generation will have five high coffin style "seating", sensory immersion via IV, and catheters.


the two groups has you have put them can and do coincide in my opinion. When in my seat i want to be alone when I choose to be out of it I might want to visit and chat.. they both go together perfect ;)


Well stated--it's exactly right--in the seat, I'd rather keep to myself. Outside the seat, I'm fair game, but you better have something interesting to tell me.
Keep on truckin'...
 
hz747300
Posts: 2200
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:47 am

grbauc wrote:
kanban wrote:
Strange.. on one hand we have the crowd that wants lie-flat seats and cocooning walls or cubicles to prevent any accidental contact with other humans, and then we have a group (and being A-nets probably the same group) that thinks there should be a social area, bar and disco to pick up hotties and retreat to their cubicle.. let's see we tried social areas on the clippers, Zeppelins, the strato-cruisers, the early 747 and guess what it never panned out. the airlines think of profit and the next generation will have five high coffin style "seating", sensory immersion via IV, and catheters.


the two groups has you have put them can and do coincide in my opinion. When in my seat i want to be alone when I choose to be out of it I might want to visit and chat.. they both go together perfect ;)


Well stated--it's exactly right--in the seat, I'd rather keep to myself. Outside the seat, I'm fair game, but you better have something interesting to tell me.
Keep on truckin'...
 
MSPbrandon
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:55 am

Didn't the SQ A345s have lockers for dead body storage in the lower deck?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:36 am

777PHX wrote:
IIRC, the 777 crown rest was a new development for the 777W/77L. Older 777s have their crew rest on the main deck. AA's is near 3L/3R on the 77E.

:shakehead: The 77E was certified to have them early on, but most were retroactively added.

It wasn't until them mid-'00s that they started coming factory-installed.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: Airbus lower deck socializing space

Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:15 pm

The idea of cargo-deck pax space goes back into the prop era. IIRC, the B377 had a lower deck lounge as an option. And there was the provence.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?

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