cruising
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Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:11 am

Airbus dismisses rival's latest aircraft
- It knows of no launch customers for B747-400XQLR

Business Times (Singapore) 02/28/02
author: Beth Jinks


(SINGAPORE) European aircraft maker Airbus says its 550-seat super-jumbo A380 is on schedule and in demand - and claims that US rival Boeing's newly-unveiled quiet, long-range 400-seat 747-400XQLR will pose little competition.



Airbus president and chief executive Noel Forgeard told a news briefing at Asian Aerospace yesterday that he is confident that Airbus will maintain steady business and deliver 300 aircraft in 2002 and probably the same in 2003.



Repeatedly highlighting that Airbus captured more than half of the world's new large commercial aircraft orders last year, Mr Forgeard said the company is already 'on equal footing with its only competitor'.



The France-based plane maker, which last year secured 375 firm orders worth US$44.7 billion, delivered 325 aircraft and boasts a backlog of 1,575, anticipates less than a challenge from Boeing in the future, taking a swipe at its new plane and broadening business interests.



'A key difference is that Airbus invests its profits back in its products, in its core business, not in flashy diversifications or buy-back of shares. We are an aircraft company and proud to be so,' Mr Forgeard said.



'What is particularly quiet with this new (Boeing) airplane is the new orders, because we are not aware of any launch customers,' he added, repeating that Airbus' A380 has 85 firm orders. The first is on track to be delivered to Singapore Airlines in the first quarter of 2006. Boeing's 747-400XQLR is scheduled to enter the market in early 2004.



Airbus said it is also at an 'advanced state of development' for two bigger and longer-range versions of the A340 - the A340-500 and A340-600 - which will allow non-stop flights between the US and South-east Asia.



Cautiously optimistic that the industry is beginning to climb out of a global slowdown aggravated by the Sept 11 terrorist incident, Mr Forgeard later told reporters that he expects a proper industry recovery to take two years.



Airbus chief commercial officer John Leahy likened the situation to the Gulf War, and forecast similar passenger return after a dramatic drop-off.



Describing Airbus' less than 20 per cent share of the Japan market as a serious concern, Mr Forgeard said the company will aggressively fight Boeing's stranglehold. 'It will not be an easy fight,' he said.



Commenting on yesterday's failure in Australia to sell embattled carrier Ansett - an airline that had signed memoranda of understanding to rejuvenate its fleet with Airbus aircraft - Mr Forgeard said he had not counted the orders as firm but hoped Ansett could be salvaged.



He added that Airbus has 'no undisclosed ghostly customers' and has reduced its sales financing exposure to less than 20 per cent, down from more than 40 per cent in four years.

 
L-188
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:20 am

Cough....press release....cough....

You don't suppose he is slightly biased do you???
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:28 am

 
Singapore 777
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:33 am

Oh my god!!! I didn't think he'd be so direct. Indeed the only thing so quiet about the new B747-400 is the orders!
 
AerLingus
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:54 am

Don't you think it's a little unusual that he is making such a blatant attack on an aircraft? I mean, if it poses no real competition to Airbus, why would he be making such a big deal out of it.

I would, however like to know where Boeing is getting it's information as far as demand for this plane goes. How much real research with the airlines did they do before coming out with this new 744?

Finally, for the Airbus fans: remember how many orders the Concorde had within it's first year or so of production. Now remember how few orders actually panned out.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
CoAir@IAH
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:00 am

The bottom line is that Airbus is still the inferior (numbers- and in my opinion quality-wise) and they have to take cheap shots to get ahead.

I look forward to flying on the A380 someday!
I mean just look at all the US-based carriers stepping over each other to get the first plane!

 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:19 am

Maybe not to the A380, but on paper it can easily do Singapore - Los Angeles (Source: someone who posted it on airliners.net). So, it may not be a competitor according to them anyway, to the A380, but it is to their A340-500s.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Jubilee777
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:33 am

"Dismisses" and "slam" have different intensities in meaning.

J777
 
EGGD
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:42 am

Jubilee777 is right, I was expecting some sort of Statement from Airbus saying that the new 747 is a disgrace.

No guesses for the majority of replies in this thread.....
 
cruising
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:18 am

Someway, Airbus is right about the number of customers for the 747-400XQLR. According to a Boeing source, their main target customer is SIA and maybe other carriers in South East Asia, because this new 747 can make Singapore and LAX non-stop.

Boeing Board of Directors plans to give 'go' or 'no-go' in May on this project, so if Boeing doesn't get any order in near future, there is a big chace that this 747-400 will have same faith as other proposed 747's.
 
Konstantinos
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:27 am

MDC wanted to bring out the MD-12 super jumbo and Boeing could have gone with it instead of canceling it.

Boeing or even MDC would have already produced the MD-12 (or B787) by now and would not worry about their 747 and Airbus.

What can you say, shit happens.
 
mika
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:32 am

I will believe that the A380 is going to be a success when the 80-ish planes that are ordered got the airlines names on them and are in actual service. Personally i think it has a little "too good to be true" factor posing over it. Just my $0.02.
 
GDB
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 4:04 am

Just a bit of good old-fashioned knockabout, how many of you remember Boeing dissing the A320 during it's development?
Airbus inferior quality? I don't know.
But I do know that in the late 80's and again in the early 90's, BA complained about the quality of some 737/757 and 767 deliveries.
I know because I work with one of the BA staff sent to Seattle in 1991 to see what was going on, and resolve the problems.
It affected a small minority of aircraft, mostly incorrect wiring, and the problems clearly were resolved.
With no Airbus fleet of anything like comparable size at BA, I cannot comment on, or compare Airbus.
I guess it happens to all planemakers from time to time, but I've only ever worked at BA so I don't really know about the 'wider world'.
Comparing the A380 to Concorde is facile, the A380 is a conventional aircraft, just a bit bigger.
And only BA and AF ever placed FIRM Concorde orders, all the rest were options.


 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 4:07 am

'A key difference is that Airbus invests its profits back in its products, in its core business, not in flashy diversifications or buy-back of shares. We are an aircraft company and proud to be so,' Mr Forgeard said.

Profits? I didn't know Airbus had much experience in this field.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 5:15 am

Damn Boeing and their "flashy diversifications" They need to do some real, concrete diversifications!  Smile
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 6:56 am

Unprofessional statements like this from the PRESIDENT of a major international company makes me disgusted. True, there is competition, but you let the product do the talking. I never hear Boeing execs make childish statements like this. But that typical Airbus for ya.

I love the aircraft that Airbus produces. Particularly the newest A340's. But The "leadership", and I use that term very lightly, of Airbus makes me sick.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:10 am

If Airbus is planning their ad campaigns around "the US nonstop to Southeast Asia", the 380 will never be profitable.

Also, I don't suppose the words "excess capacity" are in Airbus's dictionary, cause that's where things are headed, if not already there.

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
Mr.BA
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:24 am

The captain I spoke to told me that he read on the company message board that SQ was considering a new B747-400 but he pointed out that it was not the B747-400 that Qantas/Air France has ordered but another version and that Boeing has not unveiled at that time.

alvin

PS/I think he did not slam the B744XQLR... he just dismissed the B744XQLR as 'nothing' to the A380.
Boeing747 万岁!
 
Thumper
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:47 am

I would like to fly on a 380 someday but the largest airlines are american and I dont think there will be much of a market for the 380 in america! Most american airlines have done away with there 747's and replaced them with smaller aircraft.I dont see the 380 ever becoming a dominate aircraft like the 747's were. If they cant fill them they will end up hauling cargo and that would be a shame!
 
Mr.BA
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:56 am

You've got a point Thumper. I don't know for the future but currently I see that passenger traffic can never fill a B744 to the max let alone the A380. Personally I would like the try the A380 too one day but I'm a bit hesitant on flying with 555 passengers in a plane for longhaul.

alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
Mr.BA
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:57 am

My apologies... it should read

"it can hardly fill a B744...."
Boeing747 万岁!
 
The Coachman
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:59 am

Thumper, I'd like to point out that the largest airlines may be American, but they aren't necessarily the most profitable. Let's see, what were the losses for most of the US majors last year...

I'd like to point out that SQ, QF and CX, while not the largest, have consistently turned over profits for years in the Asia-Pacific Region and of those, 2 have placed firm orders for the A380, and CX has long been rumoured to have been considering the aircraft.

My argument is that no airline making losses can really chance their arm with this aircraft, not because the airline is too small.
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
777236ER
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:03 am

Wow, Noel's adopting an O'leary-esque "fuck them" approach.

Egotistical idiot.

Scary that he's running Airbus.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Guest

RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:09 am

>.'What is particularly quiet with this new (Boeing) airplane is the new orders, because we are not aware of any launch customers,'<<

Why didn't anybody tell me that they hired Michael O'Leary?
 
GDB
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 2:22 am

Spare us the false outrage Boeing Nut!
Selective memory?
Plenty of harmless snipes from Boeing to Airbus over the years!
Who cares?
Now if anyone said a plane was unsafe......
 
EGGD
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 3:02 am

Unprofessional statements like this from the PRESIDENT of a major international company makes me disgusted

And you forget mr. Mulallys crude and ignorant statements about Airbus?

Jeez, get a life, its 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Both are good/bad as each other, both have good and bad points, how many times do we see petty arguments...
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 3:59 am

The reason why SQ and QF are buying the A380-800 is the fact they have the traffic loads to fly such a big plane.

In fact, in the case of SQ they have two lucrative transpacific routes (SIN-TPE-LAX-TPE-SIN and SIN-HKG-SFO-HKG-SIN) that will need the A380 well before 2010. Indeed, the HKG-SFO-HKG roundtrip flight is probably SQ's highest-yielding flight in terms of all passenger classes.
 
Udo
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What A Bull!

Sat Mar 02, 2002 4:54 am

What a bull...as expected.
By the way, I can tell you why American airlines aren't likely to order the A380...it's because they just don't work as profitable as airlines such as SIA or Emirates. And airlines which are not profitable, do not order aircraft of that size.
Only CO has done well over the last years and not to forget the low cost carriers. But what about UAL, US, AA, NWA? Big losses, no interest in aircraft like the A380.
SIA, Emirates, Lufthansa, and since recently Air France: big profits, A380 orders. That's how it works.

So the argument that the A380 won't be a success just because the red figured American carriers cannot afford to buy it is very cheap...

Quality problems at Airbus?
Who has forgotten hammers and other stuff in tails of B767s? And who had serious quality problems with the B737NG production some years back? Come on people, don't blame others while Boeing has produced a long long list of examples for bad quality...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
RIX
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What A Bull, Indeed...

Sat Mar 02, 2002 5:19 am

Show me an airline in the US that needs A380 but "can't afford it because of big losses".

Your post was titled perfectly.

Regards,
RIX
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 5:30 am

Well I'm just about done with airliners.net forum... The "flag waving" thing makes me sick. Its like going to a nascar race and hearing about how Fords are better than Chevys... Grow up people ... Has anyone ever noticed that Airbuses and Boeings are both Aircraft ??? Thats why I like both types ... Thanks I feel better now.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Udo
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:01 am

UA or NWA could easily operate A380 sized aircraft on their Pacific network. AA sends six or seven B767 and B777 to LHR from JFK, sometimes with little time difference.
Don't tell me there wouldn't be any need.

I just want to express that US carriers are not the right examples to decide if an aircraft could be a success or not. Profitable airlines go ahead with new aircraft or new projects, and not loss makers. If you like it or not...obviously you do not...

Regards
Udo

Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
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PW100
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:09 am

Udo,

Couldn't agree more with you. Stating that the A380 won't be a success cos US carriers won't buy them is the biggest rubbish I've heard in years. Come on guys...Boeing sold 1200 or so Jumbo's, now just how many of them were sold to US carriers, or even how many of them are still flying with US carriers. Clearly the US marketplace is not where the A380 will shine.

On a side note, the only international US carrier that is not burning money like hell, FEDEX, is strongly considering A380's....
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
RIX
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Still

Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:16 am

US carriers are not the right examples to decide if an aircraft [A380] could be a success or not. - exactly. Because they don't need it.
AA sends six or seven B767 and B777 to LHR from JFK - but they don't replace them by 3-5 747s, do they?

UA or NWA could easily operate A380 sized aircraft on their Pacific network. - send them e-mail. I'm afraid they won't listen to you not because they are "loss makers". If you like it or not... Big grin

Profitable airlines go ahead with new aircraft or new projects - which is not the same as "if airline A doesn't buy aircraft B then it can't afford it". Again, if you like it or not...
 
I LOVE EWR
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:19 am

I am a fan of airplanes. If I am on a CRJ, ERJ, Airbus or Boeing I am thirlled to be flying it to some destination. However, I do not think the A380 will be very successful or popular with the passengers. The people who are on airliners.net and the other aviation enthusiasits worldwide make up only a tiny fraction of the people that actually fly. The majority of people that fly don't give a sh** what airplane they are on or what airline they are booked on. They care about if they get to a destination on-time with minimal delays and hassels. They also do not care what plane they are on. These people like us do care about in-flight service which I think will worse on the A380. Worse you gasp. Yes here is why.

Most airlines on the A380 will use the extra space for extra seats not extra amenities. When the 747 was introduced there were plans of bars and other upgraded facilities offered on the 747 that you could not get on other planes. The A380 will be no different. Airlines will see and think about all the money they are losing if they put in showers, restaurants, casinos and who else knows what on the A380 instead of F-Class seats, Biz Seats, and Economy Seats. More people fly on the plane the more money you get per flight.

With more people onboard it will take you longer to check-in, go through security, board the plane, load the plane with baggage and cargo, longer to offer in-flight meals and drinks, longer to turn the plane around longer to get their bags. Most passengers will not be willing to wait with another 799 people to get their bags instead of waiting around with another 299.

The SonicCruiser will offer the same inflight amenities as the A380 but will get the passengers to thier destinations quickly. That is why it will be successful.

Airlines may say that they will put these 'flying palaces' in the sky but in reality they will include more seats, not special amenities. If a passenger has the option to get to their destination in 5 hours over 8 or more hours they will chose the 5 hours if they are going to have the same style of service. This is why I think the A380 will not work.
 
AOMlover
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:37 am

Aer Lingus, about Concorde, you might also forget that Concorde is a very very special plane...
This topic makes me laugh. When Boeing insult Airbus, all Airbus fans say that Boeing is baaaaaaad, etc... and when Airbus insult Boeing, all Boeing fans say that Airbus is baaaaaaad. Another thing: How could you say the A380 or the 747 400XQLR will be a flop ?????? We are not members of Boeing's or Airbus' headquarters !!! And I think that Airbus' or Boeing's engineers know what they do better than us. So we can't jusdge who's
right, who's wrong.

"Unprofessional statements like this from the PRESIDENT of a major international company makes me disgusted". Oh, of course, we all know that Boeing ALWAYS makes VERY VERY VERY professional statements...
"I never hear Boeing execs make childish statements like this. But that typical Airbus for ya" Your a Boeing fanatic, you'd never admit that Boeing has made such statements.

About Noël Forgeard, he may be an egoistical idiot, but I think that if he's the president of such a big company, that's not only hazard........

About the A380, before saying it'll be a flop, wait and see...

 
AOMlover
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:44 am

"The SonicCruiser will offer the same inflight amenities as the A380 but will get the passengers to thier destinations quickly. That is why it will be successful."
You might forget that the A380 can carry more than 500 passengers. How many for the Sonic cruiser ? You can't compare these aircrafts.  Insane
But like you I'm just an aircrafts fan, I love the A340 but I love the DC10, the B747, the IL86, etc...
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:59 am

OK fellow members,

I say this with absolutely no sarcastic tone. (no, really!) I personally have not heard an unprofessional statement like that made by Boeing execs towards Airbus. Please give me a reference link that quotes a Boeing exec that makes the same type of statement made by Airbus regarding the 747-400XQLR. When I see it, I will come back and ask for my salt and pepper for eating my crow.

DC10guy,

I think from now on, when I see something like this, I will just shake my head and let it go. Just admire the airplanes and ignore the companies.

Regards
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
RIX
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 7:00 am

Well, I don't see check-in/security a big problem for A380 since how fast it is depends not on the aircraft size but on total amount of passengers in the airport. It will take the same time as for, say, two 777s or 340s. Slow boarding/getting luggage? Yes, this depends on aircraft too. More doors/jetways/cargo doors, easy access to the upper deck (separate jetway?) - and, again, you have the same boarding time as for any other aircraft. Meal service? Well, it doesn't take more time to get meal in 777 than in 737... But to predict whether or not it is a success no “new aircraft, new project” mantra will help – it is not just a new plane of 737 or 330 class.

And, unfortunately, Sonic Cruiser is not a new SST, so it can't fly "5 hours instead of 8"...
 
Udo
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Just Some Additions...

Sat Mar 02, 2002 7:12 am

Forget it. An airline that operates 44 B747-400s (UA) or 46 B747-200/400s (NWA) must have a certain demand for larger aircraft, at least in several years. Additionally both airlines operate many flights into NRT and don’t tell me that airport can grow at the same rate of worldwide passenger traffic.
Why they don’t order it? Patriotism? Fear? Yes, in those times it could be dangerous for US airlines to order the top product of that evil European competitor…North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Airbus? UAL?…
But to remain serious, UAL and NWA are in a bad financial situation (UAL more than NWA) and even if they wanted they just could not afford the A380. Now of course, but that can change, who knows. I’m quite sure, if UAL or NWA were as profitable as SIA or EK, they would have ordered the A380 or the streched B747.

CO really has no demand, DL and AA won’t buy any Airbus due to their exclusive deals. Why AA doesn’t operate 3-5 B747s instead? Good question. They could use the holy LHR slots for other flights and save costs by using three aircraft for five on LHR-JFK. Or they could give away the slots for the approval of the BA-AA alliance. I’m sorry, no idea. If I were AA’s CEO I would use larger aircraft, give away some slots and then collect even higher benefits through the alliance. I could really send them an e-mail and ask! Thanks for your great idea, you’re my man.

By the way, I respect your opinion. But believe me, your arguments don’t get better by repeating others’ expressions…
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
greenjet
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 7:56 am

A little side note.....the reason why there are so many 767 and 777 flights between LHR and NY is because frequency is king in order to compete in this high yield business market. If a business passenger misses his/her original flight then he would prefer the next one to be in just 2 hours on a 767/777 type aircraft than 3 or 4 hours later on a 747.
 
blink182
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 9:28 am

Tell that to Qantas. The last time I checked, they had orders for the new 744.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
donder10
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 9:43 am

Im sure most airlines would be as profitable as Emirates if they didnt pay landing and airport fees at their hub!
 
NWA742
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 11:11 am

What a childish remark from Airbus. I have to agree with Boeing Nut, I've never ever seen Boeing act this way. Looks like this guy doesn't like having a real competitor to his A380.  Big thumbs up

Udo,

Quality problems at Airbus?
Who has forgotten hammers and other stuff in tails of B767s? And who had serious quality problems with the B737NG production some years back? Come on people, don't blame others while Boeing has produced a long long list of examples for bad quality...


The 767 has never had any serious tail problems, and they certainly won't fall off.

The 737NG's history almost can't be better than what it is. It has been doing just as good or better than your beloved Airbus A320 since it's introduction.

Long list of examples? Well, yours was quite short, and wrong at that.

It's not even worth reading anymore of your anti-Boeing and anti-American posts, so I'll leave it at that.

----------------------------------------


NWA742



Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Jonathan L
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 12:11 pm

This reads like a pretty typical press release to me. Companies are always claiming or attempting to prove (with a single-sided argument) that their product is superior to a competitor's, and I don't blame them. There is absolutely no reason for a company's press release to have an unbiased presentation stating both sides of an issue. Press releases often include unneeded and uninformed "name calling" stuff, which really doesn't hurt any company, except for the one doing it.

I'm not sure what all of the fuss is about.

- a Boeing fan.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 2:04 pm

I'm just surprised this thread has lasted this long!!1

- a Boeing pilot.
- an Airbus fan, primarily because of all the Anti-Airbus people around.
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 3:48 pm

UPS once found a hammer and other tools in the rudder of one brand new B767F. Sorry if you don't want to hear it, but it's a fact.
And before pointing the finger at the A300 tail wait before the final cause is out. I can remember AA once used false maintenance methods on the engines of the DC-10 which caused a crash. Who knows?
And I didn't say the B737NG isn't a success. But you cannot deny the quality problems at the beginning and the fact that Boeing had to pay a lot of money to annoyed airlines due to delivery delays.

Anti-Boeing? It may sound so but it's just defense against wrong statements about Airbus.
Anti-American? Of course, anybody who criticizes (if seriously or ironically) that greatest country on earth just a little is already anti-American. Maybe it's that kind of thinking that causes you so many problems in the world...
If I am anti-American, what are others then? Oh yes, I know the incarnation of the devil...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 4:52 pm

I don't see what the big deal here is. Look:

If there was really a strong demand for a 500-600 seat aircraft, boeing would already be designing and building one to compete with the 380. I think boeing would sell more of their airplane than airbus will sell of the 380 due to customer loyalty, if they built one. Obviously, Boeing does not consider the design and production costs for such an aircraft to be profitable for the company. Airbus on the other hand, seems to be building the A380 as more of a statement piece, and as long as there are a few of them in the air Airbus will have accomplished its main goal of proving it can build "the largest airliner". This is just my perspective on things as an outsider.

This A vs B debate seems like one giant case of penis envy. Right now Boeings is bigger. Airbus feels inferior so they'll build something to top the 747 in size, regardless of profitability and more out of pride. Does bigger equate to more satisfying in terms of air travel? Sometimes......

Both companies build quality aircraft. I prefer boeing flight control system designs over airbuses, but I think airbus does better on aesthetics both interior and exterior (sometimes).
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 7:52 pm

Udo, I TOTALLY agree with you, especially about the "anti-american" comment.
Boeing never made statements against Airbus ? Some days ago, there was a thread in this forum about a press release at the Boeing website about the AA A300's accident....have you already forgotten ???  Insane
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:17 pm

Why so defensive about this press release? It merely achknowledges that BOEING aircraft are designed in much the same way as airbuses, and therefore any NTSB reccomendations regarding vertical tails, rudders, and composites will also be applicable to boeing. This ensures to the public that boeing will comply with NTSB reccomendations, as should airbus. Sure, Boeing states they've never head a vertical tail fall off due to rudder movements, but at the same time boeing broadcasts it's intentions to consider results of the AA A300 accident investigation.


February 08, 2002 – The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) today issued its first recommendation stemming from its ongoing investigation into the Nov. 12, 2001 crash of the Airbus A-300 jet operated by American Airlines out of New York’s JFK airport. The board is recommending that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), with the industry’s help, make pilots more aware of three things: the differences in rudder pedal characteristics across airplane models, the certification requirements for airplane rudders and vertical tails, and the potential for placing dangerous loads on the vertical tail with large, back and forth movements of the rudder.

Boeing in the past has documented and shared with the broader aviation industry information about the potential effects on airplane control and structural integrity of large, abrupt rudder maneuvers. In the days ahead, Boeing will work with the FAA, its customers, and the pilot community to reinforce that past guidance and to make available the additional information and training that the NTSB has suggested.

The methods Boeing has used over the past 40 years for designing, analyzing, testing and certifying airplane tail structure appear to have served the industry well. Boeing commercial jets have completed more than 300 million revenue flights without a vertical tail failure due to rudder movements. Boeing is ready to assist the NTSB, the FAA, and its airline customers in any further discussion of vertical tail strength.
 
carmy
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:00 am

RE: Airbus Slams New 747-400

Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:36 pm

Udo, you have my absolute full backing on this one, in particular that part about the "Anti-American" thing that somehow seems to surface whenever there are discussions like this. Anyone who seems to show any sort of preference for a non-American company is an anti-American bigot.  Yeah sure

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