lat41
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:30 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
Would love to see them try MHT-MCO

Southwest is just coasting along in Manchester with the 'we'll just get 'em via BWI anyway" strategy. Frontier could stimulate a few markets and reabsorb some passengers leaking to BOS and PWM if they do it right.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:35 pm

If PVD does well for F9 they could try MHT, but it seems more of a market for expanded G4 service.
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WNflyer1523
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:14 pm

I'd like to see ISP-DEN added. Maybe 4x weekly on an A319 to start off.
It would do well year-round, opening up connections to the west coast in the summertime, and for ski season in the wintertime.

Southwest used to do ISP-Western US (KLAS), at one point it was even 2x daily. I believe it did very well, but they cut it during the 2008 recession.
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:24 pm

ISP-RSW/MIA is ending in April. Both routes may of originally been scheduled as year round.
https://www.newsday.com/business/fronti ... 1.16556812
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Midwestindy
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:39 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
ISP-RSW/MIA is ending in April. Both routes may of originally been scheduled as year round.
https://www.newsday.com/business/fronti ... 1.16556812


Poor ISP I was pulling for them, considering RSW/MIA/MSY are all already being cut... if they can't make those work I can't imagine ISP-DTW/ATL/MSP being very much better...
2018: AMS, ATL, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, FRA, HPN, JFK, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:53 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
ISP-RSW/MIA is ending in April. Both routes may of originally been scheduled as year round.
https://www.newsday.com/business/fronti ... 1.16556812


Poor ISP I was pulling for them, considering RSW/MIA/MSY are all already being cut... if they can't make those work I can't imagine ISP-DTW/ATL/MSP being very much better...

In the case of RSW, I’m not surprised they opted not to fly the route during the summer. RSW is more of a winter/spring destination.
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TWA1985
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:55 pm

How’s F9 doing at ORD? They are hiring flight attendants again, so I’m assuming they’re doing okay.
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:59 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
ISP-RSW/MIA is ending in April. Both routes may of originally been scheduled as year round.
https://www.newsday.com/business/fronti ... 1.16556812


Whatever was said, or anyone thought, this is standard practice with Frontier, whose schedule falls roughly into two parts - north-south in winter, east-west in summer.

There exceptions - MCO is one, LAS another - but, generally the rule holds. DEN-LGA, for example, is dropped in winter, when loads are poor, so that the slot can be used for LGA-MIA, which is dropped in summer so that the slot can be used for LGA-DEN - and so on and so on.

Midwestindy wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
ISP-RSW/MIA is ending in April. Both routes may of originally been scheduled as year round.
https://www.newsday.com/business/fronti ... 1.16556812


Poor ISP I was pulling for them, considering RSW/MIA/MSY are all already being cut... if they can't make those work I can't imagine ISP-DTW/ATL/MSP being very much better...


If you feel bad for ISP you must feel really really bad fro TTN - except - this is what hapens every year. Florida is pulled down in the summer in favour of DTW, MDW, MSP etc.

I don't know why it's so difficult to understand or accept.

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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:16 pm

mariner wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
ISP-RSW/MIA is ending in April. Both routes may of originally been scheduled as year round.
https://www.newsday.com/business/fronti ... 1.16556812


Poor ISP I was pulling for them, considering RSW/MIA/MSY are all already being cut... if they can't make those work I can't imagine ISP-DTW/ATL/MSP being very much better...


If you feel bad for ISP you must feel really really bad fro TTN - except - this is what hapens every year. Florida is pulled down in the summer in favour of DTW, MDW, MSP etc.

I don't know why it's so difficult to understand or accept.

mariner


Did you even read the article? ISP-RSW/MIA/MSY ARE NOT coming back next spring/winter, they are ENDING those routes for good. It IS NOT a seasonal draw down....
2018: AMS, ATL, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, FRA, HPN, JFK, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:29 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Did you even read the article? ISP-RSW/MIA/MSY ARE NOT coming back next spring/winter, they are ENDING those routes for good. It IS NOT a seasonal draw down....


Yes, I read the article, but I don't understand how you can make the leap to ISP-DTW/ATL/MSP not doing well. They do well from TTN - every summer.

They may - or may not - do well from ISP, but that future is unknown to me.

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WNflyer1523
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:52 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
mariner wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Poor ISP I was pulling for them, considering RSW/MIA/MSY are all already being cut... if they can't make those work I can't imagine ISP-DTW/ATL/MSP being very much better...


If you feel bad for ISP you must feel really really bad fro TTN - except - this is what hapens every year. Florida is pulled down in the summer in favour of DTW, MDW, MSP etc.

I don't know why it's so difficult to understand or accept.

mariner


Did you even read the article? ISP-RSW/MIA/MSY ARE NOT coming back next spring/winter, they are ENDING those routes for good. It IS NOT a seasonal draw down....


Not surprised about this either.
When ISP-MIA and ISP-MSY were announced, I knew that they would both be short lived.
What surprises me is that they decided on a daily A321 ISP-RSW. I think 4x weekly on an A319 would have been enough.

As for ISP-MSP/DTW/ATL, I'm excited to see how this will end up. I think ATL and ORD will be a hit. MSP and DTW I'm a bit worried about. MSP and DTW are both primarily business destinations and not connecting opportunities, and on LI there aren't too many corporate businesses. DTW will be 3x weekly from ISP and MSP 4x weekly, ATL and ORD both being 1x daily.
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:30 am

The article does say though that the county is expecting Frontier to announce new routes later this week.

So what it could be is that these past routes weren’t as profitable as they thought so they will move the planes on other routes until they receive more planes.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:20 pm

Austin expansion: 30 destinations!, 97 weekly flights, two based A320s:http://www.anna.aero/2018/02/09/frontier-airlines-bolsters-austin-network-announcement-14-domestic-routes/

I think there is more expansion coming, some services were reportedly loaded and then retracted from their schedule.
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SumChristianus
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:27 pm

And cuts too: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/frontier-unveils-35-mostly-seasonal-routes-445736/

It will also withdraw flights between Colorado Springs and Los Angeles, Cancun and Orlando, Cincinnati and Miami, Houston Intercontinental and Las Vegas, Milwaukee and Las Vegas, Los Angeles and Orlando, and Milwaukee and Tampa.
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:37 pm

33 out of the 35 new routes are seasonal. The only two that aren't (for now) are BHM-MCO/PHL.
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:23 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
And cuts too: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/frontier-unveils-35-mostly-seasonal-routes-445736/

It will also withdraw flights between Colorado Springs and Los Angeles, Cancun and Orlando, Cincinnati and Miami, Houston Intercontinental and Las Vegas, Milwaukee and Las Vegas, Los Angeles and Orlando, and Milwaukee and Tampa.


COS is really getting hit hard. They lost SJC in last week's update too.
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:50 pm

http://buffalonews.com/2018/02/08/fr...ffalo-airport/

Frontier at 94% capacity with flights from BNIA./ Buffalo. That is pretty good for the last few months! A321s might be utilized more! That would be pretty cool.
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:24 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
Not surprised about this either.
When ISP-MIA and ISP-MSY were announced, I knew that they would both be short lived.
What surprises me is that they decided on a daily A321 ISP-RSW. I think 4x weekly on an A319 would have been enough.

As for ISP-MSP/DTW/ATL, I'm excited to see how this will end up. I think ATL and ORD will be a hit. MSP and DTW I'm a bit worried about. MSP and DTW are both primarily business destinations and not connecting opportunities, and on LI there aren't too many corporate businesses. DTW will be 3x weekly from ISP and MSP 4x weekly, ATL and ORD both being 1x daily.


As far as ISP-MIA, F9 does have very close competition with Southwest on ISP-FLL and to a lesser extent ISP-PBI. I haven't followed but possibly Southwest was aggressive in fare matching or discounting.

ATL/ORD/DTW/MSP have no comparable competition out of ISP.

DTW and MSP do draw leisure passengers who are going to/from their markets. Michigan is the 9th most populated state, while Georgia is 8th. A lot more credit tends to go to Atlanta over Detroit, but in reality, a lot of pax fly into DTW and drive elsewhere in Michigan, and similar in ATL for the Georgia and the Southeast. Atlanta isn't anymore a leisure destination, unless the Coca Cola factory is so great, nor is it warm in the Winter even though it's the South.

That said, I don't think the issue is the market choice, but on execution. If the service is offered at ideal time, like the daytime and likely atleast 5x weekly, it can draw more passengers.

MSP is a longer route over ATL and DTW. The problem is F9 is chintzy when it comes to dedication of resources to longer flights. For example, it does well in PHL, but the longest domestic route it will commit to is PHL-DEN.

The headscratcher for me is PHL-BHM and year round. I really don't know what the appeal is on either ends, unless it's a way for PHL pax to reach Atlanta region for a bargain basement fare and drive to Atlanta, or BHM pax to reach NYC via PHL. NYC is a draw in the summer, moreso than Philly for out of towners.
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:35 pm

phluser wrote:
As far as ISP-MIA, F9 does have very close competition with Southwest on ISP-FLL and to a lesser extent ISP-PBI. I haven't followed but possibly Southwest was aggressive in fare matching or discounting.


Could be. MIA is very finely balanced because the passenger enplanement costs are so high. It used to be that MIA was $20 per passenger while FLL was $5. It may have changed some or Frontier may have a deal, but even so MIA is not a cheap airport.

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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:00 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
And cuts too: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/frontier-unveils-35-mostly-seasonal-routes-445736/

It will also withdraw flights between Colorado Springs and Los Angeles, Cancun and Orlando, Cincinnati and Miami, Houston Intercontinental and Las Vegas, Milwaukee and Las Vegas, Los Angeles and Orlando, and Milwaukee and Tampa.


COS is really getting hit hard. They lost SJC in last week's update too.


And they were just starting to build up there. They did add ATL and MSP, but cutting MCO while operating 4x week to SAT? Flying RSW AUS-SEA, saturated with AS and DL already. AUS-IND, the third carrier on the route, with potential for DL to enter, RDU-SJU (is tourism back?), AUS-RNO :? AUS-CHS :? AUS-EPP :?
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:30 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
And they were just starting to build up there. They did add ATL and MSP, but cutting MCO while operating 4x week to SAT? Flying RSW AUS-SEA, saturated with AS and DL already. AUS-IND, the third carrier on the route, with potential for DL to enter, RDU-SJU (is tourism back?), AUS-RNO :? AUS-CHS :? AUS-EPP :?


I'm really not sure what you mean. If you're talking about COS, they haven't added ATL and MSP yet - that happens in early April, together with COS-ORD/SEA/IAD.

As for COS-MCO I can still book it in July - it's just not daily - and they're flying COS-SAT because it's a high volume tourist market in summer.

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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:46 pm

Looks like ABQ will be getting a small expansion. I think the Austin flights will be a hit here but I am not so sure about the daily to Orlando. Frontier is definitely a good fit for ABQ.

http://www.abqjournal.com/1130927/front ... lando.html
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:57 pm

mariner wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
And they were just starting to build up there. They did add ATL and MSP, but cutting MCO while operating 4x week to SAT? Flying AUS-SEA, saturated with AS and DL already. AUS-IND, the third carrier on the route, with potential for DL to enter, RDU-SJU (is tourism back?), AUS-RNO :? AUS-CHS :? AUS-EPP :?


I'm really not sure what you mean. If you're talking about COS, they haven't added ATL and MSP yet - that happens in early April, together with COS-ORD/SEA/IAD.

As for COS-MCO I can still book it in July - it's just not daily - and they're flying COS-SAT because it's a high volume tourist market in summer.

mariner


Sorry, meant from COS, ATL-COS was announced as part of this expansion, MSP was announced in December (I believe?), and you are right, about MCO. I had read it wrong from https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/frontier-unveils-35-mostly-seasonal-routes-445736/, CUN-MCO was cut, not COS-MCO.

Given that MCO and LAS are some of the more stable parts of F9s network, it makes sense for them to keep it.

I just think some of the other choices are pretty funny. I never thought anyone would ever fly AUS-RNO or AUS-EPP, AUS-IND kind of sounded like a possibility, but three carriers (even with only 1-3 weekly frequencies each) seems a lot considering AUS had no nonstop service from IND a year ago. F9 and WN are starting IND-AUS the same week in April, while G4 goes 3x weekly on the same route in the summer. That kind of lowers the chances of DL entering IND-AUS though, they would be the fourth carrier if they started it now.

What's all the big interest in AUS anyway? I don't mean to cut on the city, I've just never been there, and have been pretty amazed at all of the growth, both domestically and internationally that it has seen.
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:28 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
mariner wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
And they were just starting to build up there. They did add ATL and MSP, but cutting MCO while operating 4x week to SAT? Flying AUS-SEA, saturated with AS and DL already. AUS-IND, the third carrier on the route, with potential for DL to enter, RDU-SJU (is tourism back?), AUS-RNO :? AUS-CHS :? AUS-EPP :?


I'm really not sure what you mean. If you're talking about COS, they haven't added ATL and MSP yet - that happens in early April, together with COS-ORD/SEA/IAD.

As for COS-MCO I can still book it in July - it's just not daily - and they're flying COS-SAT because it's a high volume tourist market in summer.

mariner


Sorry, meant from COS, ATL-COS was announced as part of this expansion, MSP was announced in December (I believe?), and you are right, about MCO. I had read it wrong from https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/frontier-unveils-35-mostly-seasonal-routes-445736/, CUN-MCO was cut, not COS-MCO.

Given that MCO and LAS are some of the more stable parts of F9s network, it makes sense for them to keep it.

What's all the big interest in AUS anyway? I don't mean to cut on the city, I've just never been there, and have been pretty amazed at all of the growth, both domestically and internationally that it has seen.


.Austin is a nice place to visit outside of the heat of July and August. It is a techie town with significant information technology companies present. The Univ of Texas and associated research industries are located there. Then there is the South by Southwest and entertainment district - enjoyable.

Frontier 14
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:10 pm

mariner wrote:
phluser wrote:
As far as ISP-MIA, F9 does have very close competition with Southwest on ISP-FLL and to a lesser extent ISP-PBI. I haven't followed but possibly Southwest was aggressive in fare matching or discounting.


Could be. MIA is very finely balanced because the passenger enplanement costs are so high. It used to be that MIA was $20 per passenger while FLL was $5. It may have changed some or Frontier may have a deal, but even so MIA is not a cheap airport.

mariner


B6 also has nonstop service to FLL from JFK, LGA, EWR, HPN, and SWF, and there are some travelers in Long Island who prefer to fly on B6 out of JFK or LGA over WN or F9 out of ISP.
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:42 pm

jplatts wrote:
B6 also has nonstop service to FLL from JFK, LGA, EWR, HPN, and SWF, and there are some travelers in Long Island who prefer to fly on B6 out of JFK or LGA over WN or F9 out of ISP.


It isn't the comparison I'd have chosen, Frontier and Jetblue don't compete for the same market.

There's no Jetblue at MIA and Frontier's LGA-MIA does very well. Equally, Frontier's PBI-ISP does fine despite a big presence of Jetblue at PBI.

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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:49 pm

Noticed the addition of BKG for the Summer. Frontier had steadily built up BKG from 09 to 13 before abruptly pulling out in 14. BKG had got up to 130,000 enplanements before Southwest pulled out and then Frontier bailed months after that and just announcing a big expansion of Denver service a few months before. F9 had done MKE, AUS and others from BKG.

BKG is private and offers route exclusivity. Air Tran/Southwest had DAL, HOU, MDW and MCO. Could Frontier start a build up here again?

If they are building up CVG, I could see this happening at BKG in the summer and certainly MCO which could pull from XNA and SGF and steal from Allegiant in both markets.
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:18 am

jplatts wrote:
mariner wrote:
phluser wrote:
As far as ISP-MIA, F9 does have very close competition with Southwest on ISP-FLL and to a lesser extent ISP-PBI. I haven't followed but possibly Southwest was aggressive in fare matching or discounting.


Could be. MIA is very finely balanced because the passenger enplanement costs are so high. It used to be that MIA was $20 per passenger while FLL was $5. It may have changed some or Frontier may have a deal, but even so MIA is not a cheap airport.

mariner


B6 also has nonstop service to FLL from JFK, LGA, EWR, HPN, and SWF, and there are some travelers in Long Island who prefer to fly on B6 out of JFK or LGA over WN or F9 out of ISP.


And some pax prefer to fly DL out of JFK because they have status. And some are fine going with AA with a connection. But, the closest competition of F9's nonstop on ISP-MIA was WN's nonstop on ISP-FLL, as the POS is a select subset of the NY market who use ISP. F9 likely overestimated the ISP-South Florida market and/or underestimated WN's fare matching (if such has happened). It's true MIA has high costs but F9 knew that when shifting from FLL to MIA. Originally, MIA opened with destinations popular for those living in Miami-Dade County, offering a low cost ULCC choice for those who are close and originate out of MIA, rather than Miami as the destination necessarily; TTN-FLL was the last to switch to TTN-MIA, after F9 closed FLL and consolidate at MIA.

F9's model tends to work well for MCO flights (less seasonal) and it does well against WN's typically higher fares. I'd think F9 would do well on MHT-MCO, ABE-MCO, and MDT-MCO - the latter two were flown in the past though, ORF-MCO, GSP-MCO, DFW-MCO, IAH-MCO and I think F9 could service BWI-MCO, mainly as NK has ventured on PHL-MCO and is taking some of F9's business now, F9 should do the same back. F9 might be wary putting too much into MCO, but it seems to be one of the stations that works best for them.
 
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:30 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Noticed the addition of BKG for the Summer. Frontier had steadily built up BKG from 09 to 13 before abruptly pulling out in 14. BKG had got up to 130,000 enplanements before Southwest pulled out and then Frontier bailed months after that and just announcing a big expansion of Denver service a few months before. F9 had done MKE, AUS and others from BKG.

BKG is private and offers route exclusivity. Air Tran/Southwest had DAL, HOU, MDW and MCO. Could Frontier start a build up here again?

If they are building up CVG, I could see this happening at BKG in the summer and certainly MCO which could pull from XNA and SGF and steal from Allegiant in both markets.


It's a tricky market, as Southwest discovered.

People sneered at it ("Branson"???) but Frontier's DEN-BKG was a success from Day 1 (Bedford - "blowing the doors off") as was Airtran's ATL-BKG which had been a success for some time. BKG-MCO was good but (from memory) they never added to it. I think the Saturday service was as much as that market would stand.

For a time Frontier saw it as the new fertile destination but almost everything else they tried didn't work - and didn't work for Southwest either.

I'd to see Frontier back there and with an onward flight to make it DEN-BKG-ATL. Image

phluser wrote:
It's true MIA has high costs but F9 knew that when shifting from FLL to MIA.


Well - sure they did. Even so, the finances are still very finely balanced, especially for an airline that touts its low fares.

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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:00 am

mariner wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
Noticed the addition of BKG for the Summer. Frontier had steadily built up BKG from 09 to 13 before abruptly pulling out in 14. BKG had got up to 130,000 enplanements before Southwest pulled out and then Frontier bailed months after that and just announcing a big expansion of Denver service a few months before. F9 had done MKE, AUS and others from BKG.

BKG is private and offers route exclusivity. Air Tran/Southwest had DAL, HOU, MDW and MCO. Could Frontier start a build up here again?

If they are building up CVG, I could see this happening at BKG in the summer and certainly MCO which could pull from XNA and SGF and steal from Allegiant in both markets.


It's a tricky market, as Southwest discovered.

People sneered at it ("Branson"???) but Frontier's DEN-BKG was a success from Day 1 (Bedford - "blowing the doors off") as was Airtran's ATL-BKG which had been a success for some time. BKG-MCO was good but (from memory) they never added to it. I think the Saturday service was as much as that market would stand.

For a time Frontier saw it as the new fertile destination but almost everything else they tried didn't work - and didn't work for Southwest either.

I'd to see Frontier back there and with an onward flight to make it DEN-BKG-ATL. Image

phluser wrote:
It's true MIA has high costs but F9 knew that when shifting from FLL to MIA.


Well - sure they did. Even so, the finances are still very finely balanced, especially for an airline that touts its low fares.

mariner


We can say they didn't work but golly the passenger numbers kept going up and up. Anyhoo, you are right, it would be a great touch and go between major markets like you suggested to eat excess capacity.

What I do know is the NWA is booming (it still grew during the recession) and Springfield growth is healthy. The only real impediment for BKG is 35 miles of two lane on 412 for the NWA crowd.

It'll be interesting as F9 adds those planes. I hope they grow MEM once the consolidation project is done there.

I had always thought the former Air Tran boss at Spirit would return to BKG. He even mentiones it once. He never did.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2473
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:31 pm

Some reductions from F9, and some routes are cancelled before they even started
Reductions
Austin – Cleveland eff 09APR18 2 weekly A319 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Austin – Columbus OH eff 08APR18 3 weekly A319/320 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Austin – San Jose CA eff 08APR18 3 weekly A319 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Chicago O’Hare – San Francisco Previously planned 1 daily from 08APR18 cancelled
Chicago O’Hare – Washington Dulles Previously planned 1 daily from 08APR18 cancelled
Colorado Springs – Minneapolis/St. Paul eff 09APR18 3 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Islip – Atlanta eff 08APR18 4 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 1 daily)
Omaha – Las Vegas eff 08APR18 2 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 3 weekly)
San Jose CA – Colorado Springs Previously planned 4 weekly from 09APR18 cancelled

Additions
Trenton NJ – Charleston SC eff 08APR18 3 weekly A320 (4 weekly from 04JUN18)
Chicago O’Hare – El Paso eff 08APR18 2 weekly A320 (3 weekly from 22MAY18, previously not mentioned)
Colorado Springs – San Antonio eff 09APR18 4 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 3 weekly)

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t=columbus
2018: AMS, ATL, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, FRA, HPN, JFK, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
TNST3B
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:09 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:15 pm

Any idea when the schedule will be extended out? I'm wanting to book STL-MCO for September but it seems the schedule only goes until August.
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:43 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Some reductions from F9, and some routes are cancelled before they even started
Reductions
Austin – Cleveland eff 09APR18 2 weekly A319 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Austin – Columbus OH eff 08APR18 3 weekly A319/320 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Austin – San Jose CA eff 08APR18 3 weekly A319 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Chicago O’Hare – San Francisco Previously planned 1 daily from 08APR18 cancelled
Chicago O’Hare – Washington Dulles Previously planned 1 daily from 08APR18 cancelled
Colorado Springs – Minneapolis/St. Paul eff 09APR18 3 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Islip – Atlanta eff 08APR18 4 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 1 daily)
Omaha – Las Vegas eff 08APR18 2 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 3 weekly)
San Jose CA – Colorado Springs Previously planned 4 weekly from 09APR18 cancelled

Additions
Trenton NJ – Charleston SC eff 08APR18 3 weekly A320 (4 weekly from 04JUN18)
Chicago O’Hare – El Paso eff 08APR18 2 weekly A320 (3 weekly from 22MAY18, previously not mentioned)
Colorado Springs – San Antonio eff 09APR18 4 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 3 weekly)

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t=columbus

Can someone explain to me the factors Frontier looks at when deciding to cancel a route before it's even launched? I understand load factor is an indicator but is there anything else behind it?
 
phluser
Posts: 576
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:43 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Some reductions from F9, and some routes are cancelled before they even started
Reductions
Austin – Cleveland eff 09APR18 2 weekly A319 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Austin – Columbus OH eff 08APR18 3 weekly A319/320 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Austin – San Jose CA eff 08APR18 3 weekly A319 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Chicago O’Hare – San Francisco Previously planned 1 daily from 08APR18 cancelled
Chicago O’Hare – Washington Dulles Previously planned 1 daily from 08APR18 cancelled
Colorado Springs – Minneapolis/St. Paul eff 09APR18 3 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 4 weekly)
Islip – Atlanta eff 08APR18 4 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 1 daily)
Omaha – Las Vegas eff 08APR18 2 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 3 weekly)
San Jose CA – Colorado Springs Previously planned 4 weekly from 09APR18 cancelled

Additions
Trenton NJ – Charleston SC eff 08APR18 3 weekly A320 (4 weekly from 04JUN18)
Chicago O’Hare – El Paso eff 08APR18 2 weekly A320 (3 weekly from 22MAY18, previously not mentioned)
Colorado Springs – San Antonio eff 09APR18 4 weekly A320 (Instead of previously filed 3 weekly)

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t=columbus

Can someone explain to me the factors Frontier looks at when deciding to cancel a route before it's even launched? I understand load factor is an indicator but is there anything else behind it?


It has to do with darts falling off a dartboard.

F9's presence at ISP doesn't look promising if it can't keep ISP-ATL daily in the summer. Even F9 at TTN, NK at ACY is daily in the summer to ATL, and like those there is no DL or even a WN nonstop to cite as direct competitors.
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:07 pm

phluser wrote:

It has to do with darts falling off a dartboard.

F9's presence at ISP doesn't look promising if it can't keep ISP-ATL daily in the summer. Even F9 at TTN, NK at ACY is daily in the summer to ATL, and like those there is no DL or even a WN nonstop to cite as direct competitors.


Well, you have JFK-ATL and LGA-ATL on numerous carriers, I doubt that a bunch of business travelers would stop using Delta/American with their elite business perks, and switch to an airline that you have to pay for water on.
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 511
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:55 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
phluser wrote:

It has to do with darts falling off a dartboard.

F9's presence at ISP doesn't look promising if it can't keep ISP-ATL daily in the summer. Even F9 at TTN, NK at ACY is daily in the summer to ATL, and like those there is no DL or even a WN nonstop to cite as direct competitors.


Well, you have JFK-ATL and LGA-ATL on numerous carriers, I doubt that a bunch of business travelers would stop using Delta/American with their elite business perks, and switch to an airline that you have to pay for water on.


I know it is ironic, but Frontier does not charge for water (other things yes). It is NK that charges the pax for water.

Frontier 14
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19466
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:16 pm

phluser wrote:
F9's presence at ISP doesn't look promising if it can't keep ISP-ATL daily in the summer. Even F9 at TTN, NK at ACY is daily in the summer to ATL, and like those there is no DL or even a WN nonstop to cite as direct competitors.


Well, maybe.

Unlike some, I never try to predict what's going to happen to any route - or city. When Frontier announced IAD, for example, many said it would all end in a season. They're still there - bigger, smaller, it varies, but still there.

Similarly, I seem to remember that TTN-ATL was 4 x weekly in its first season.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
OB1504
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:35 pm

mariner wrote:
phluser wrote:
As far as ISP-MIA, F9 does have very close competition with Southwest on ISP-FLL and to a lesser extent ISP-PBI. I haven't followed but possibly Southwest was aggressive in fare matching or discounting.


Could be. MIA is very finely balanced because the passenger enplanement costs are so high. It used to be that MIA was $20 per passenger while FLL was $5. It may have changed some or Frontier may have a deal, but even so MIA is not a cheap airport.

mariner


I believe F9 got some sort of incentives to open MIA since at the time there were no low-cost carriers whatsoever. I don’t know what the incentives were or if they’re still in effect, though.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19466
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:07 pm

OB1504 wrote:
I believe F9 got some sort of incentives to open MIA since at the time there were no low-cost carriers whatsoever. I don’t know what the incentives were or if they’re still in effect, though.


Anyone can get incentives for new service to MIA, not just low cost.

http://www.miami-airport.com/library/pd ... 0ASIP5.pdf

THE MIA AIR SERVICE INCENTIVE PROGRAM

1. New Domestic Passenger Air Service:
Any air carrier establishing scheduled, year-round passenger service to any U.S. or Canadian
destination (city) from MIA will qualify for 100% abatement of landing fees on the new service, for a 12-month Promotional Period. The service must be operated for 12 consecutive months.


The same applies to International service, but in all cases the new service must operate for twelve consecutive months to get the incentives. Still, 100% is a good deal, and if the route will last 12 months, it will probably last longer.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:55 pm

Frontier14 wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
phluser wrote:

It has to do with darts falling off a dartboard.

F9's presence at ISP doesn't look promising if it can't keep ISP-ATL daily in the summer. Even F9 at TTN, NK at ACY is daily in the summer to ATL, and like those there is no DL or even a WN nonstop to cite as direct competitors.


Well, you have JFK-ATL and LGA-ATL on numerous carriers, I doubt that a bunch of business travelers would stop using Delta/American with their elite business perks, and switch to an airline that you have to pay for water on.


I know it is ironic, but Frontier does not charge for water (other things yes). It is NK that charges the pax for water.

Frontier 14

Right, my bad. But they still do charge for a good amount of things that are free on other airlines that biz travelers use.
 
phluser
Posts: 576
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:08 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
phluser wrote:

It has to do with darts falling off a dartboard.

F9's presence at ISP doesn't look promising if it can't keep ISP-ATL daily in the summer. Even F9 at TTN, NK at ACY is daily in the summer to ATL, and like those there is no DL or even a WN nonstop to cite as direct competitors.


Well, you have JFK-ATL and LGA-ATL on numerous carriers, I doubt that a bunch of business travelers would stop using Delta/American with their elite business perks, and switch to an airline that you have to pay for water on.


That is not direct competition and also F9 is targeting the leisure passenger. I'm still surprised it doesn't want to operate the route daily in the summer. Perhaps it suspects JetBlue's entrance in JFK-ATL will suppress ISP-ATL potential, but if that is the case, then it's not giving much of a chance for it's ISP operation, e.g. trimming service before it even starts.
 
lat41
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:05 pm

April 8 is the big F9 wholesale schedule change day and it is unfortunate that the ending of many Florida flights and other North South service comes a couple weeks before what is arguably the final and perhaps largest push of school vacation and other leisure travel here in the Northeast. As a local example for me, the PVD to RSW and MIA flights that are doing quite well stop for the season on that big APR 8 changeover day and hand the traffic back to WN for the next few weeks. Other cities no doubt experience a similar phenomenon.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3102
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:03 pm

I agree, the big Spring changes are about 3 weeks too early in terms of the Florida flights.
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:15 pm

Anyone know how F9 is doing at ISP so far?
MYR doesn't start until May, yet is looking pretty good booking-wise so far.
I just think that Frontier is throwing in too much capacity. Let's be honest, daily ATL and ORD probably won't work out. I think 4x weekly on both of those routes would be fine. DTW and MSP at 3x weekly, and SJU at 5x weekly.
 
TYSflyer
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:17 am

So it appears F9 will be extending their schedule today with some new destinations. I’m seeing SYR, PWM and MDT as new adds and schedule extended to mid November.
 
User avatar
SumChristianus
Topic Author
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:32 pm

I see 2x weekly SYR-DEN in October
PWM-RDU !? beginning in July 3x weekly along with PWM-DEN and PWM-MCO
MDT-RDU 2x week
MDT-MCO 2x week
MDT-DEN 2x week
MYR-PVD (is this new?) 3x week from May

It looks like RDU is being built up, but these were all the routes I could find so far....
A Traddie wannaby---UA DL LH NW AA --- Next IND-SFO-IND UA A320/B739
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1548
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:50 pm

Just to have these announcements in one place. Feel free to add more links for others.

RDU adds Portland, Harrisburg, Syracuse
http://www.wral.com/rdu-to-announce-fli ... /17463434/
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 710
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:38 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Just to have these announcements in one place. Feel free to add more links for others.

RDU adds Portland, Harrisburg, Syracuse
http://www.wral.com/rdu-to-announce-fli ... /17463434/

For a second, I read this as if F9 was adding RDU-PDX (instead of RDU-PWM). Scared me there for a minute. :duck:
 
 
msycajun
Posts: 744
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:13 pm

Although I shouldn't be surprised, I have to say the RDU routes seem particularly dartboardish. They all have minuscule O&D at least according to my Q2 2017 numbers.

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