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eamondzhang
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:51 am

qf2220 wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
From Smi0006 in reply 89:
Although a mix up of JNB with 789s could be good, ex-PER/MEL, take on SA. From anecdotal memory I think VA always had high load factors ex-MEL, but the detour killed them, but I understand this has now been relaxed?

Not exactly relaxed, CASA now SAYS it will approved EDTO>180, although none has so far although to be fair there may not have been any applications. About 2 years ago, much missed member SunriseValley [RIP] lodged an FOI request with CASA re EDTO >180 applications. They replied that as of that date none had been lodged. While sceptical the time I now tend to believe as no one is doing so on an Aussie AOC & 2 years would be very believable for the first application.
Having said that VA may not be willing to jump through the hoops that would be required especially regarding equipment & maintenance, such approval does not come cheap!

Gemuser


If anyone will do it it will be QF. Being able to go deep into the south will allow SCL to go daily with a 789 and potentially allow opening of GRU/GIG/EZE with 789s as well. JNB will be part of this package for QF.

I agree that it anyone do EDTO>180 it'll be QF. VA has no need for it either, the LA route can be perfectly covered by EDTO180.

However QF might not necessary mean 789, it could also mean A359 especially since A3510 is making a visit to Sydney again..... :duck: :stirthepot:

Michael
 
USAOZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:57 am

as far as bilateral aviation agreements go, is AVV considered MEL or, are operations to AVV unlimited like at OOL, ADL etc. ?

From what I know, BNE, SYD, MEL & PER are primary airports in Australia, with restrictions, but anywhere else is open slather.
 
USAOZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:04 am

planemanofnz wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Air Asia to launch daily services at the end of the year.

log0008 wrote:
Geelong is also growing very rapidly

While Geelong is growing faster than other second-tier cities, like CBR, HBA and NTL, it is still smaller than all of them, and will rely on some MEL traffic.

See: https://blog.id.com.au/2016/population/ ... australia/.

IMO, this service will struggle. AVV cannot support flights to AKL, BNE or PER, let alone the likes of HKG or SIN - perhaps a tag will support the flight?

Cheers,

C.
Air Asia X flights are cheap. Anyone who would fly them from MEL will still go to AVV. Southwest proved that many people will drive up to a few hours to save a few dollars.

Plus imagine car parking at AVV is much cheaper than at MEL.


AVV/AKL would work if the adult taxes & charges weren't around the current AUD$180 for a return flight Australia/NZL.

Treat Australia/NZL as domestic flights & many of the taxes & charges disappear & viability goes through the roof.

At present IMO, AVV internationally, will only work on medium to long haul routes.

Look at OOL/AKL with Air Asia X. Their cheapest sale fares are only just a little bit more than the taxes & charges, therefore loss leaders, Yes there might only be 1/2 dozen seats at those promotional fares, but it does help keep everyone else honest.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:48 am

a320fan wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
zkncj wrote:
If D7 does go ahead an use AVV, could see if JQ give AVV-AKL an try?

I doubt it - JQ is cutting routes (like AVV - HBA), rather than adding them.

IMO, JQ will try to serve AVV - BNE or AVV - PER first, before AVV - AKL.

Cheers,

C.

JQ flew AVV-BNE for years, In fact I've only just realised it's gone. I guess it got replaced when the OOL flight started.


AVV-BNE ended years ago. For a long time JQ was only servicing AVV-SYD before a little govt/council subsidy helped them launch OOL/ADL/HBA.

USAOZ wrote:
Air Asia X flights are cheap. Anyone who would fly them from MEL will still go to AVV


You can't know that for sure and if that was the case D7 would have switched to AVV years ago. More likely D7 thinks they'll lose 'x' amount of pax by switching from MEL to AVV but the fact they'll have lower airport chargers will compensate for this by attracting even more passengers and increasing their margins. Time will tell whether their calculations are correct.
 
USAOZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:58 am

Most air asia x customers are very proce conscious. Avv & mel aren't that far apart & most don't tske into account cost of actually getting to airport
 
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mariner
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:19 am

USAOZ wrote:
Look at OOL/AKL with Air Asia X. Their cheapest sale fares are only just a little bit more than the taxes & charges, therefore loss leaders, Yes there might only be 1/2 dozen seats at those promotional fares, but it does help keep everyone else honest.


It's more sophisticated than that. They're using those cheap fares as (a) bait to sell the more profitable fares to Malaysia and (b) to fill up the plane - an empty seat is always a loss.

It's not dissimilar to Emirates.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
jupiter2
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:21 am

eamondzhang wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
From Smi0006 in reply 89:
Although a mix up of JNB with 789s could be good, ex-PER/MEL, take on SA. From anecdotal memory I think VA always had high load factors ex-MEL, but the detour killed them, but I understand this has now been relaxed?

Not exactly relaxed, CASA now SAYS it will approved EDTO>180, although none has so far although to be fair there may not have been any applications. About 2 years ago, much missed member SunriseValley [RIP] lodged an FOI request with CASA re EDTO >180 applications. They replied that as of that date none had been lodged. While sceptical the time I now tend to believe as no one is doing so on an Aussie AOC & 2 years would be very believable for the first application.
Having said that VA may not be willing to jump through the hoops that would be required especially regarding equipment & maintenance, such approval does not come cheap!

Gemuser


If anyone will do it it will be QF. Being able to go deep into the south will allow SCL to go daily with a 789 and potentially allow opening of GRU/GIG/EZE with 789s as well. JNB will be part of this package for QF.

I agree that it anyone do EDTO>180 it'll be QF. VA has no need for it either, the LA route can be perfectly covered by EDTO180.

However QF might not necessary mean 789, it could also mean A359 especially since A3510 is making a visit to Sydney again..... :duck: :stirthepot:

Michael


Could also be done for the 777-8 and 777-9 :stirthepot: :stirthepot:
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:13 am

USAOZ wrote:
Look at OOL/AKL with Air Asia X. Their cheapest sale fares are only just a little bit more than the taxes & charges, therefore loss leaders, Yes there might only be 1/2 dozen seats at those promotional fares, but it does help keep everyone else honest.


At times D7 has AKL-OOL for as low as $79 (which just covers the tax ex-AKL).

Australia and New Zealand really need to look at reducing tax/fees on point to point Tasman services, in the long run it would probably do short-haul tourism benefits for both counties.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:52 am

USAOZ wrote:
Most air asia x customers are very proce conscious. Avv & mel aren't that far apart & most don't tske into account cost of actually getting to airport


Most Jetstar customers are very price conscious yet JQ runs a large international and domestic operation out of MEL but can barely sustain any service to AVV without government subsidy.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:14 am

VA has flown its last flight with the E90 today, that being VA1105 NTL-BNE.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... to-an-end/
Forum Moderator
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:25 am

qf789 wrote:
VA has flown its last flight with the E90 today, that being VA1105 NTL-BNE.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... to-an-end/


From a passenger perspective it's a bit sad. Great plane to fly but economics are what they are.
 
BAeRJ100
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:29 am

qf789 wrote:
VA has flown its last flight with the E90 today, that being VA1105 NTL-BNE.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... to-an-end/


Must be one of those weeks for the E190. Cobham also operated its final scheduled E190 service this past Wednesday.
B737/738/739/744ER/752/753/763/77L/77W/788/789
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USAOZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:23 am

Qantas16 wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
Most air asia x customers are very proce conscious. Avv & mel aren't that far apart & most don't tske into account cost of actually getting to airport


Most Jetstar customers are very price conscious yet JQ runs a large international and domestic operation out of MEL but can barely sustain any service to AVV without government subsidy.

Jq & qf don't really want 2 bsses in Melbourne but if someone is stupid enough to pay them a subsidy to fly to avv ....
Last edited by USAOZ on Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jman
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:41 am

USAOZ wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
Most air asia x customers are very proce conscious. Avv & mel aren't that far apart & most don't tske into account cost of actually getting to airport


Most Jetstar customers are very price conscious yet JQ runs a large international and domestic operation out of MEL but can barely sustain any service to AVV without government subsidy.

Jq & qf don't really want 2 bsses in Melbourne but if someone is stupid enough to pay them a subsidy yo fly to avv ....


Jetstar already operates a base out of AVV, its a dual base MEL/AVV
 
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JBusworth
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:43 am

USAOZ wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
Most air asia x customers are very proce conscious. Avv & mel aren't that far apart & most don't tske into account cost of actually getting to airport


Most Jetstar customers are very price conscious yet JQ runs a large international and domestic operation out of MEL but can barely sustain any service to AVV without government subsidy.

Jq & qf don't really want 2 bsses in Melbourne but if someone is stupid enough to pay them a subsidy to fly to avv ....


The only real reason that AVV sustains as many flights as it currently does is the subsidy arrangement with the Victorian Government. If that subsidy was to be dropped, JQ probably wouldn't exit the market entirely but instead reduce it to 2-3 daily to SYD only.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:44 am

USAOZ wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
Most air asia x customers are very proce conscious. Avv & mel aren't that far apart & most don't tske into account cost of actually getting to airport


Most Jetstar customers are very price conscious yet JQ runs a large international and domestic operation out of MEL but can barely sustain any service to AVV without government subsidy.

Jq & qf don't really want 2 bsses in Melbourne but if someone is stupid enough to pay them a subsidy to fly to avv ....


On that point, how is WTB seemingly going well, and AVV is still requiring subsidies to make anything happen.
If I remember correctly JQ was done to SYD as the last remaining flight from AVV until they got their latest subsidy that required them to launch more destinations to qualify for it, hence the expansion.
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:53 am

qf789 wrote:
VA has flown its last flight with the E90 today, that being VA1105 NTL-BNE.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... to-an-end/


Wish they kept them for regional WA rather than the ancient ex skywest fleet. Wont fly them within WA
Ps doesnt make me hater before anyone gets started.
 
USAOZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:01 pm

Obzerva wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:

Most Jetstar customers are very price conscious yet JQ runs a large international and domestic operation out of MEL but can barely sustain any service to AVV without government subsidy.

Jq & qf don't really want 2 bsses in Melbourne but if someone is stupid enough to pay them a subsidy to fly to avv ....


On that point, how is WTB seemingly going well, and AVV is still requiring subsidies to make anything happen.
If I remember correctly JQ was done to SYD as the last remaining flight from AVV until they got their latest subsidy that required them to launch more destinations to qualify for it, hence the expansion.
long hike wtb to bne or ool. Not far avv to mel
 
a320fan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:17 pm

qf789 wrote:
VA has flown its last flight with the E90 today, that being VA1105 NTL-BNE.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... to-an-end/

Sad. I remember when they were ordered. Shame I never got to fly in one. Saw them at gates and buzzing around airports plenty, one of the best looking aircraft around.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:40 pm

Obzerva wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:

Most Jetstar customers are very price conscious yet JQ runs a large international and domestic operation out of MEL but can barely sustain any service to AVV without government subsidy.

Jq & qf don't really want 2 bsses in Melbourne but if someone is stupid enough to pay them a subsidy to fly to avv ....


On that point, how is WTB seemingly going well, and AVV is still requiring subsidies to make anything happen.
If I remember correctly JQ was done to SYD as the last remaining flight from AVV until they got their latest subsidy that required them to launch more destinations to qualify for it, hence the expansion.


Not sure I'd say WTB is "going well"... at least not in comparison to the number of flights they expected to have by now. They maintain ~2x daily Dash8 to SYD, ~daily E170 to MEL and ~3x weekly E170 to CNS and TSV... AVV has considerable more flights than that, even before the recent subsidy (was 4-5 daily A320 to SYD)...
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:41 pm

waoz1 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VA has flown its last flight with the E90 today, that being VA1105 NTL-BNE.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... to-an-end/


Wish they kept them for regional WA rather than the ancient ex skywest fleet. Wont fly them within WA
Ps doesnt make me hater before anyone gets started.


They were a very comfortable plane to fly in. I flew them in both J and Y and they were quiet and very spacious.

I think the F100s are very hardy when it comes to the rough runways encountered with FIFO operations which is why both VA and QF prefer the F100s to E90s and 717s on WA regional routes.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 789, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:48 pm

Air Asia has now officially announced double daily services from Avalon. Also confirmation it will replace both services out of Tulla. Julie Bishop is currently speaking about the opportunities it will bring to Geelong, and the South West coast of Victoria.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:29 am

WTB is a very expensive private toy white elephant for the Wagner clan... it is anything but succesful commercially.
 
log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:40 am

Thai Air Asia X and Indonesian Air Asia X are also expected to announce AVV services, with 2 others very interested both mentioned today and from my sources

AVV may very quickly overtake the likes of OOL internationally
 
Flyerqf
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:14 am

JBusworth wrote:
My call is Massive Profit, 6-10 new 787s, BNE-US second route 3x weekly and SYD-HKG becomes year round A380 with F sales.

I agree on this. Definitely think that HKG will become daily 380.
With 2 A380 coming off QF9/10, 1 goes MEL-SIN and the other to SYD/HKG.

It’s highly unlikely that QF would take any frames out of rotation to do refurbs/ painting, as they usually do these when they’d already be in the hangar for maintenance.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:31 am

qf2220 wrote:
Re 789s, as Indianic has said, look to the pending options/purchase rights and you'll find out an indication

Re HKG and F, id say its possible they could begin selling F again to HKG (i am correct in that they currently do not yes)? HKG is pretty premium and with a regular service, it might make sense to do so again.


You are correct that the don't sell F at the moment. When HKG is operated by an A380 the F seats get comped to Platinum Frequent Flyers booked in Business, but with Business service. I think that this has to do with the somewhat sporadic A380 service more than anything else, as it would become confusing to normally not offer F but sometimes do. If HKG went to a year-round A380 then I think it would make sense to offer it. If you get some people to pay then that is great, otherwise you can oversell Business and bump some people up which is pretty much what they are already doing. I doubt the cost of service is significantly higher in First than Business. Additionally if they can offer it as an upgrade from Business to suck some points out of the Frequent Flyer pool for negligible marginal cost then happy days.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Qf648
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:21 am

tullamarine wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VA has flown its last flight with the E90 today, that being VA1105 NTL-BNE.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... to-an-end/


Wish they kept them for regional WA rather than the ancient ex skywest fleet. Wont fly them within WA
Ps doesnt make me hater before anyone gets started.


They were a very comfortable plane to fly in. I flew them in both J and Y and they were quiet and very spacious.

I think the F100s are very hardy when it comes to the rough runways encountered with FIFO operations which is why both VA and QF prefer the F100s to E90s and 717s on WA regional routes.


I think it has more to do with the 717 mostly a dual class plane on which to maximise margins for domestic routes.

The fokkers are single class and yes quite hardy but fifo work doesn’t load them up hard either.

The fokkers are also marginal on short strips in high ambient heat.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:22 am

log0008 wrote:
Thai Air Asia X and Indonesian Air Asia X are also expected to announce AVV services, with 2 others very interested both mentioned today and from my sources

AVV may very quickly overtake the likes of OOL internationally


Let's not get too carried away here... this is a brave and risky move by D7 but I'd be surprised to see them also launch DMK and DPS straight away... particularly DPS given they only recently withdrew from the route. Give it 6-12months in operation and see how it is performing.

OOL currently maintains ~daily NRT, 10x weekly KUL, 4x weekly SIN, ~3-7x weekly HKG as well as AKL, CHC, ZQN and WLG services... it'll take a while for AVV to overtake them.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:37 am

Qantas16 wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Thai Air Asia X and Indonesian Air Asia X are also expected to announce AVV services, with 2 others very interested both mentioned today and from my sources

AVV may very quickly overtake the likes of OOL internationally


Let's not get too carried away here... this is a brave and risky move by D7 but I'd be surprised to see them also launch DMK and DPS straight away... particularly DPS given they only recently withdrew from the route. Give it 6-12months in operation and see how it is performing.

OOL currently maintains ~daily NRT, 10x weekly KUL, 4x weekly SIN, ~3-7x weekly HKG as well as AKL, CHC, ZQN and WLG services... it'll take a while for AVV to overtake them.


I’m still stunned they are moving both frequencies - but I imagine the costs must be significantly lower, Melbourne airport has been growing, perhaps their start up discounts have ended? I would struggle to see Bangkok from AVV but DPS perhaps. Be interesting to see if JQ could do a 320 to DPS from AVV. If permanent border force is set up could be viable, if costs are spread between more flights.

Other rumoured carrier was Cebu Pacific?
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:44 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Re 789s, as Indianic has said, look to the pending options/purchase rights and you'll find out an indication

Re HKG and F, id say its possible they could begin selling F again to HKG (i am correct in that they currently do not yes)? HKG is pretty premium and with a regular service, it might make sense to do so again.


You are correct that the don't sell F at the moment. When HKG is operated by an A380 the F seats get comped to Platinum Frequent Flyers booked in Business, but with Business service. I think that this has to do with the somewhat sporadic A380 service more than anything else, as it would become confusing to normally not offer F but sometimes do. If HKG went to a year-round A380 then I think it would make sense to offer it. If you get some people to pay then that is great, otherwise you can oversell Business and bump some people up which is pretty much what they are already doing. I doubt the cost of service is significantly higher in First than Business. Additionally if they can offer it as an upgrade from Business to suck some points out of the Frequent Flyer pool for negligible marginal cost then happy days.


The only time i flew F was on a points upgrade from a paid J flight to LAX from SYD, about 5 yrs ago now. At the time id done about 5 J return flights in that year to the US and UK, and so had a reasonable idea of what the J service consisted of. I think about 70% of what I saw in J appeared in F. And given they would probably carry the hardware around with them (ie blankets etc) the cost of offering F service probably isnt going to be that much.

Re your point on sucking out the FFPs, with the new bid system for upgrades, it might be a more lucrative proposition.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:14 am

smi0006 wrote:


I’m still stunned they are moving both frequencies - but I imagine the costs must be significantly lower, Melbourne airport has been growing, perhaps their start up discounts have ended? I would struggle to see Bangkok from AVV but DPS perhaps. Be interesting to see if JQ could do a 320 to DPS from AVV. If permanent border force is set up could be viable, if costs are spread between more flights.

Other rumoured carrier was Cebu Pacific?


Tiger couldn't make DPS work with A320s and had the VA 738s fill in that gap (ill fated as it was) so I doubt JQ would be able to make DPS from AVV work.

Cebu pacific if I recall was either the first or together with D7 who announced their intentions to serve AVV back 10 years ago.
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:46 am

eta unknown wrote:
WTB is a very expensive private toy white elephant for the Wagner clan... it is anything but succesful commercially.


With an estimated cost of $100m, they would've been better off sticking that in the bank earning interest !
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sq256
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:55 am

Thai Air Asia X would be AVV to DMK (old Bangkok Airport - which is now LCC central).

Completely different market to the existing MEL-BKK route by TG and JQ.
 
tayser
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:58 am

An interesting tidbit re: AVV-KUL & Air Asia's announcement today, the new international facility will be able to export up to 14 tonnes of fresh produce per day according to the Vic.Gov media release: https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/victoria ... l-airport/

I'm guessing Air Asia will be more than happy to lift that cargo out to Malaysia!
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:58 am

SYDSpotter wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
WTB is a very expensive private toy white elephant for the Wagner clan... it is anything but succesful commercially.


With an estimated cost of $100m, they would've been better off sticking that in the bank earning interest !


Ive heard that WTB is not just an airport project but a project that Wagners have used to build capability in road/asphalt construction methods. Recent press about them building Badgeries Creek is an example of how they can use that expertise.

Probably another example of who exactly makes money out of infrastructure, ie construction and users, not owners.....
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:02 am

tayser wrote:
An interesting tidbit re: AVV-KUL & Air Asia's announcement today, the new international facility will be able to export up to 14 tonnes of fresh produce per day according to the Vic.Gov media release: https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/victoria ... l-airport/

I'm guessing Air Asia will be more than happy to lift that cargo out to Malaysia!


With 377 seats on an A330-300 I doubt that they can much if any cargo on a 9 hour flight.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:03 am

smi0006 wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Thai Air Asia X and Indonesian Air Asia X are also expected to announce AVV services, with 2 others very interested both mentioned today and from my sources

AVV may very quickly overtake the likes of OOL internationally


Let's not get too carried away here... this is a brave and risky move by D7 but I'd be surprised to see them also launch DMK and DPS straight away... particularly DPS given they only recently withdrew from the route. Give it 6-12months in operation and see how it is performing.

OOL currently maintains ~daily NRT, 10x weekly KUL, 4x weekly SIN, ~3-7x weekly HKG as well as AKL, CHC, ZQN and WLG services... it'll take a while for AVV to overtake them.


I’m still stunned they are moving both frequencies - but I imagine the costs must be significantly lower, Melbourne airport has been growing, perhaps their start up discounts have ended? I would struggle to see Bangkok from AVV but DPS perhaps. Be interesting to see if JQ could do a 320 to DPS from AVV. If permanent border force is set up could be viable, if costs are spread between more flights.

Other rumoured carrier was Cebu Pacific?


Other rumors are Scoot and Hong Kong Airlines. Also QR apparently according to some online rumours.

Also RE DMK and DPS - they are not rumors - they were referenced by AirAsia during the presentation as currently in the works.
 
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JBusworth
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:09 am

SYDSpotter wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
WTB is a very expensive private toy white elephant for the Wagner clan... it is anything but succesful commercially.


With an estimated cost of $100m, they would've been better off sticking that in the bank earning interest !


Wagner liked the idea of having his own airport, it's literally a massive toy for him. I guess it also gives them that construction expertise and easier access to export markets from Southern Queensland.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:22 am

log0008 wrote:
Other rumors are Scoot and Hong Kong Airlines. Also QR apparently according to some online rumours.

Source?

Cheers,

C.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:10 am

planemanofnz wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Other rumors are Scoot and Hong Kong Airlines. Also QR apparently according to some online rumours.

Source?

Cheers,

C.


I think most talk is just either industry gossip or just general chatter. Haven’t seen anything written about anyone other than the Air Asia Group.

Scoot makes sense as it can move it’s flights across, leaving SQ to cover MEL, but Hong Kong Airlines doesn’t really stack up. Given that VA are essentially operating for them on MEL-HKG, the opportunity to launch flights via AVV services seems to have passed.

Qatar is a long, long shot. Yes it circumvents the bilateral restrictions but AVV is certainly not an airport that tends to fit its model. It usually prides itself on a more premium offering, which is hard for AVV to achieve. There are unlikely to be lounges or anything remotely resembling a premium facility.

I am sure there will be plenty of chatter this year but what comes of it will be interesting to watch.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:51 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Other rumors are Scoot and Hong Kong Airlines. Also QR apparently according to some online rumours.

Source?

Cheers,

C.


I think most talk is just either industry gossip or just general chatter. Haven’t seen anything written about anyone other than the Air Asia Group.

Scoot makes sense as it can move it’s flights across, leaving SQ to cover MEL, but Hong Kong Airlines doesn’t really stack up. Given that VA are essentially operating for them on MEL-HKG, the opportunity to launch flights via AVV services seems to have passed.

Qatar is a long, long shot. Yes it circumvents the bilateral restrictions but AVV is certainly not an airport that tends to fit its model. It usually prides itself on a more premium offering, which is hard for AVV to achieve. There are unlikely to be lounges or anything remotely resembling a premium facility.

I am sure there will be plenty of chatter this year but what comes of it will be interesting to watch.


Agree on having doubts on HX. They service CNS and OOL on their own metal and codeshare on VA’s MEL flight.
They don’t position themselves as a low cost carrier, so they would be the exception amongst any AirAsia group or Scoot.

I can’t see QR going there, but QR can be full of surprises.
 
log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:47 am

planemanofnz wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Other rumors are Scoot and Hong Kong Airlines. Also QR apparently according to some online rumours.

Source?

Cheers,

C.


Rumours within pilot groups, + Avalon CEO saying "We are having negotiations with 2 other airlines" today
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:14 am

Press release on today's AVV announcement

https://www.avalonairport.com.au/media- ... al-flights
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:22 am

Qantas 789 VH-ZND returning to flightline after taxi tests

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/959953456189468672
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log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:26 am

AirAsia comments on going beyond KUL from AVV:

https://twitter.com/7NewsMelbourne/stat ... 5453803520
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:33 am

qf789 wrote:
Qantas 789 VH-ZND returning to flightline after taxi tests

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/959953456189468672


I thought her tail was already painted in the new Aboriginal livery..?
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:38 am

Obzerva wrote:

I can’t see QR going there, but QR can be full of surprises.


If they can't do a lounge at AVV, perhaps limo or helicopter access from Melbourne for those in the premium cabins?
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:43 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas 789 VH-ZND returning to flightline after taxi tests

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/959953456189468672


I thought her tail was already painted in the new Aboriginal livery..?


Yes that's correct, in the picture posted above you need to look for ZND, its further up the taxiway

Here is another picture of ZND on the flightline

Image

https://twitter.com/AeroimagesChris/sta ... 7750458369
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IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:57 am

[list=][/list]
log0008 wrote:
AirAsia comments on going beyond KUL from AVV:

https://twitter.com/7NewsMelbourne/stat ... 5453803520


I don’t get the comment one guy made in the vid about beating sydney to secure the flights. Was he referring to the 2nd international airport?

All that ceremony for what is essentially not gaining anything extra yet. It is just transferring it’s existing flights across. Gaining the flights to DMK and DPS would be a really showing value in growth, which could have struggled to be accommodated at MEL.

It was also mentioned about numerous other countries, including the Philippines, that Air Asia would look to fly to AVV. Given that they only fly longer haul from Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand, those other ones seem like longer term dreams which currently are nice words with limited substance.

Good luck to them with the move.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:00 am

Yesterday's EK424 DXB-PER is about to land in PER 8 hours late after diverting to CMB
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