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Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:10 pm

Norwegian sees a transatlantic opportunity for its Airbus A321LRs when they begin arriving in 2019, says chief commercial officer Thomas Ramdahl.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... et-445441/
 
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scbriml
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:49 pm

Cue the folks here who still insist the A321LR can't do TATL. :scratchchin:
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JetBuddy
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:08 pm

Interesting article. Seems like Dulles or Baltimore (DC area) will become a destination again. They're saying this destination requires frequency, which cannot be provided with the 787. No news on what kind of configuration they'll install on the A321LR though.
 
chiad
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:28 pm

I thought that Norwegian had planned to only lease out the NEOs.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:30 pm

chiad wrote:
I thought that Norwegian had planned to only lease out the NEOs.


That might have been their initial plan, but now they're seeing opportunities to use the planes for themselves. Maybe they'll still lease out some of them, but not all.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:41 pm

"You will see more A321LR routes coming in to medium-size airports in the USA, connecting to different capitals in Europe," says Ramdahl, adding that Berlin, Brussels, Budapest and Prague are possible European gateways.

"Washington DC is one US market that the airline is considering for the A321LR. Ramdahl says service to either Baltimore/Washington, which Norwegian dropped in early 2017, or Washington Dulles needs frequency that they are unable to provide with the Boeing 787, and is just too far for the 737-8."

Since when is DC a medium-sized market?
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ShinyAndChrome
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:51 pm

I’d appreciate if they went into detail about why DC needs frequency and the 787 doesn’t work for that market. Of course you never really can tell what Norwegian is thinking.
 
Blerg
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:54 pm

Can the A321LR even make it from BUD to North America?
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:56 pm

ShinyAndChrome wrote:
I’d appreciate if they went into detail about why DC needs frequency and the 787 doesn’t work for that market. Of course you never really can tell what Norwegian is thinking.


Maybe DC is a premium heavy market (correct me if I'm wrong), and these customers prefer frequency over capacity. Then again government officials, bureaucrats and the like rarely fly long haul on LCCs. If this is the case we should expect Norwegian to install their Premium seats in the A321LR. Who knows.
 
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mooseofspruce
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:03 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
chiad wrote:
I thought that Norwegian had planned to only lease out the NEOs.


That might have been their initial plan, but now they're seeing opportunities to use the planes for themselves. Maybe they'll still lease out some of them, but not all.

Pretty much this.

Leasing out the A320neos yes, but sometime last year DUS was brought up as an A321LR base (or just a long haul base) in a German interview. Only contradiction is that from what I remember, the DUS base would open "sometime in 2018" whereas the A321LRs aren't expected until the year after that.

That and it might be how they've had trouble leasing out the A320neos amid the PW engine problems and decided to start using them (or some) themselves.
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B777LRF
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:04 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Since when is DC a medium-sized market?


When it comes to trans-atlantic services? Since forever, I guess.
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zeke
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:05 pm

Wonder if the A321neo will be able to operate direct TATL out of LCY ?
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:10 pm

zeke wrote:
Wonder if the A321neo will be able to operate direct TATL out of LCY ?


No way, it's far too big for London City. The largest aircraft capable of using London City is the A318, which is way smaller than the A321neo. Range isn't the problem, airport size and descent angle are. The A321 just can't land on London City. They could however fly TATL out of other London airports.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:12 pm

Can this thing do a BER-WAS? Interestingly Berlin and Washington DC are not connected by air despite being the largest economy in Europe and in the world, respectively.
 
DLHAM
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:15 pm

zeke wrote:
Wonder if the A321neo will be able to operate direct TATL out of LCY ?


Even the A318 cant make it nonstop. And as far as I know the limiting factor is the TOW, which would be too high for that short runway, if they had fuel for the whole journey.

The A321 being much heavier than an A318 I see a problem.
 
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zeke
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:24 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Wonder if the A321neo will be able to operate direct TATL out of LCY ?


No way, it's far too big for London City. The largest aircraft capable of using London City is the A318, which is way smaller than the A321neo. Range isn't the problem, airport size and descent angle are. The A321 just can't land on London City. They could however fly TATL out of other London airports.


No reason why the FBW steep approach could not be extended to the A319/20/21. I was thinking stands 21-24 could handle the A321neo, the wingspan should not be an issue. Aircraft park on an angle.
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BestWestern
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:25 pm

Knowing Norwegian it will be flying from Dundee to Rapid City.
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Polot
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:30 pm

mooseofspruce wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
chiad wrote:
I thought that Norwegian had planned to only lease out the NEOs.


That might have been their initial plan, but now they're seeing opportunities to use the planes for themselves. Maybe they'll still lease out some of them, but not all.

Pretty much this.

Leasing out the A320neos yes, but sometime last year DUS was brought up as an A321LR base (or just a long haul base) in a German interview. Only contradiction is that from what I remember, the DUS base would open "sometime in 2018" whereas the A321LRs aren't expected until the year after that.

That and it might be how they've had trouble leasing out the A320neos amid the PW engine problems and decided to start using them (or some) themselves.


The plan was always to operate the A321LR. They made that clear when they first ordered the plane. The A320neos were for leasing out.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:34 pm

zeke wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Wonder if the A321neo will be able to operate direct TATL out of LCY ?


No way, it's far too big for London City. The largest aircraft capable of using London City is the A318, which is way smaller than the A321neo. Range isn't the problem, airport size and descent angle are. The A321 just can't land on London City. They could however fly TATL out of other London airports.


No reason why the FBW steep approach could not be extended to the A319/20/21. I was thinking stands 21-24 could handle the A321neo, the wingspan should not be an issue. Aircraft park on an angle.


I thought that actually size or rather length is the limiting factor keeping the A319/320/321 out of LCY. Furthermore the A318 has the shortest take off run of the A320 family.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:34 pm

zeke wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
No reason why the FBW steep approach could not be extended to the A319/20/21. I was thinking stands 21-24 could handle the A321neo, the wingspan should not be an issue. Aircraft park on an angle.


As a matter of fact there is a reason why the steep approach can't be expanded to larger aircraft, they technically can't handle it. It's just plain impossible. And even if you would succeed, getting out of there with such a large aircraft is going to be a problem. Keep in mind that the runway in London City is very short, and I mean really short. That would mean you'd only be able to get out of there with a very minimal payload and fuel.

Let's say you fly the aircraft empty (no passengers and no cargo on board) and you only fill it up as far as you can to get out of there (which would be about half full, otherwise you'd become too heavy and overshoot the runway). That would not give you enough range to fly across the pond. Then start adding payload, which means you can take even less fuel to compensate for the payload. Turns out, with a reasonable payload you'd barely make it to Heathrow.
 
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Polot
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:47 pm

zeke wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Wonder if the A321neo will be able to operate direct TATL out of LCY ?


No way, it's far too big for London City. The largest aircraft capable of using London City is the A318, which is way smaller than the A321neo. Range isn't the problem, airport size and descent angle are. The A321 just can't land on London City. They could however fly TATL out of other London airports.


No reason why the FBW steep approach could not be extended to the A319/20/21. I was thinking stands 21-24 could handle the A321neo, the wingspan should not be an issue. Aircraft park on an angle.


It is not as simple as putting the FBW steep approach software on the A321. The A321 is operating at completely different (higher) weights. The spoiler solution used for the A318 may not be sufficient enough for the A321 to keep it at the right speeds.

Then there is the payload issue on takeoff from the short runway.
 
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zeke
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:11 pm

The 321 has a different flap setup to the A318-320. The aero improvements of the NEO should see a reduction in takeoff length and improved climb performance. Takeoff weight is not an indication of runway length used, eg the A380 uses less runway than a lot of smaller aircraft.
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Polot
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:26 pm

zeke wrote:
The 321 has a different flap setup to the A318-320. The aero improvements of the NEO should see a reduction in takeoff length and improved climb performance. Takeoff weight is not an indication of runway length used, eg the A380 uses less runway than a lot of smaller aircraft.

The A380 also has a massive wing for its size which plays a big role in its phenomal takeoff/landing performance. The A321 has the exact opposite problem. I’m not sure why, when approximate takeoff length information is easily available (at least for the ceo), and being an Airbus pilot, you are not using the data available to support your argument and instead just using vague generalities and red herrings.

The A321 is a great plane, but it is not a STOL superstar.
 
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zeke
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:45 pm

The A321neo (for that matter any NEO data) has not been included in any of the airport planning documents, however the ACAPS does show the A321 can takeoff and land in 4000 ft with reduced payload. For takeoff the ACAPS shows the A321 will carry 25,000 lb more on takeoff compared to the A318.
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:53 pm

I linked this article in the A321LR takes flight thread and did some Google research on possible mid sized US airports to Dublin. An airline like Aer Lingus or Norwegian can take a slot at Dublin and service 2 to 3 of these markets at 2x and 3x weekly frequencies. Dublin would make for a nice connecting point to the rest of Europe.

Distance to Dublin in Nautical Miles

Columbus OH - 3110nm

Indianapolis IN - 3230nm

Cincinnati OH - 3200nm

Nashville TN - 3,400nm

Memphis TN - 3550nm

Kansas City MO - 3525nm

Jacksonville FL - 3460nm

Oklahoma City OK - 3800nm

New Orleans LA - 3800nm

The bulk of those fall right at or below the magical 3500nm ANET seems dead set on till proven otherwise by real world performance. If it really is capable of 4000nm, especially on TATL you can do that for London, Amsterdam, Madri, Paris and half dozen the nice connecting points to the rest of Europe
 
SelseyBill
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:11 pm

Blerg wrote:
Can the A321LR even make it from BUD to North America?


......well clearly not; its not a 757 after all.

All joking aside, BUD-BOS = 4,185m gcm. Looking at what WOW are getting out of their non-LR NEO's in terms of range right now, I personally think a LR will be able to easily cover 4,200m missions year round at full weight, and clearly the folks at Airbus and Norwegian think so too.

BUD-JFK is 4,371 m gcm which might be more challenging, but eminently doable.

Time will tell, but folks here on a-net generally are underestimating the capabilities of the A321LR IMO.
 
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Polot
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:11 pm

zeke wrote:
The A321neo (for that matter any NEO data) has not been included in any of the airport planning documents, however the ACAPS does show the A321 can takeoff and land in 4000 ft with reduced payload. For takeoff the ACAPS shows the A321 will carry 25,000 lb more on takeoff compared to the A318.

Correct the A321ceo will lift about 30k lbs more weight than the A318 from a 1500nm runway (~170k lb vs ~140k lbs). Now let’s look at the weight difference between the aircraft. Airbus states the typical A318 oew is ~87k lbs, and A321ceo oew ~106.9k lbs. that is a difference of ~20k lb. So why would an airline buy a much larger, more expensive A321 just to carry 5-10k lbs (~2-5 t) more fuel/payload than the much smaller A318?
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:15 pm

zeke wrote:
The 321 has a different flap setup to the A318-320. The aero improvements of the NEO should see a reduction in takeoff length and improved climb performance. Takeoff weight is not an indication of runway length used, eg the A380 uses less runway than a lot of smaller aircraft.


The A318 has the best runway performance of the whole family, that does not matter on bigger airports, but it matters here, what you can do for the rest of the family in short field packages, you could do for the A318.. The A380 comparison is out of sync, because you do not compare similar frames. Big things have to happen to bring the A321 whatever version to be able to take off at near MTOW out of an airport with a 1500m runway. It could well be that you are able to get an A321 in and out of LCY, but not with a reasonable payload. Perhaps we will see a A319neo doing it and that bird could be short enough to use the stands.
As I understand it the CS100 for example does manage the size requirements, but the CS300 does not.
 
SelseyBill
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:19 pm

zeke wrote:
The A321neo (for that matter any NEO data) has not been included in any of the airport planning documents, however the ACAPS does show the A321 can takeoff and land in 4000 ft with reduced payload. For takeoff the ACAPS shows the A321 will carry 25,000 lb more on takeoff compared to the A318.


Per wiki; (so it must be right); LCY runway is 4,948 ft.

Wonder if BA/Airbus might try an empty A321NEO one day as a trial. That would be really interesting........
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:26 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Since when is DC a medium-sized market?


When it comes to trans-atlantic services? Since forever, I guess.


I guess it is open for interpretation, but IMO in terms of US airports, IAD has FRA, MUC, KEF, STN(soon), ZRH, BRU, AMS, GVA, LHR, CDG, DUB, BCN, MAD, LIS, EDI(soon), CPH, VIE, SVO, and maybe a few others. So, unless you are comparing it to JFK, it is close to the top of the list in terms of largest TATL cities in the US.
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arcticcruiser
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:27 pm

SelseyBill wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Can the A321LR even make it from BUD to North America?


......well clearly not; its not a 757 after all.

All joking aside, BUD-BOS = 4,185m gcm. Looking at what WOW are getting out of their non-LR NEO's in terms of range right now, I personally think a LR will be able to easily cover 4,200m missions year round at full weight, and clearly the folks at Airbus and Norwegian think so too.

BUD-JFK is 4,371 m gcm which might be more challenging, but eminently doable.

Time will tell, but folks here on a-net generally are underestimating the capabilities of the A321LR IMO.


Unfortunately incorrect. WOW air, in an attempt to reduce their loss flew 118 pax on KEF-LAX rather than using the A333. Limited by max fuel capacity.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:28 pm

Back to the thematic. Norwegian planing to use the A321LR shows that any die hard Boeing airline can be susceptible to the pull of the A321.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:36 pm

zeke wrote:
The A321neo (for that matter any NEO data) has not been included in any of the airport planning documents, however the ACAPS does show the A321 can takeoff and land in 4000 ft with reduced payload. For takeoff the ACAPS shows the A321 will carry 25,000 lb more on takeoff compared to the A318.


That gets nearly eaten up by the difference in the OEW. So the A321 would be able to lift 5000 lb more payload or fuel out of LCY than the A318. Even if all the difference would be fuel, that hardly would give the A321 more range.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:37 pm

chiad wrote:
I thought that Norwegian had planned to only lease out the NEOs.



They made a change in the order of 100 A320 neo a while ago, to include 30 A321neoLR for themselves. They still have 70 A320 avilable / on order for leasing through their leasing Company. This change was made in 2016.
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:41 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Can this thing do a BER-WAS? Interestingly Berlin and Washington DC are not connected by air despite being the largest economy in Europe and in the world, respectively.



Since the 757 struggles to do EWR-BER I would say no. Can the A321 LR do TATL? Sure, but its true range westbound is probably 3500 miles. Eastern Europe to IAD is not going to happen.
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zeke
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:48 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
That gets nearly eaten up by the difference in the OEW. So the A321 would be able to lift 5000 lb more payload or fuel out of LCY than the A318. Even if all the difference would be fuel, that hardly would give the A321 more range.


That’s CEO data, the NEO should have better takeoff performance and reduced fuel burn below the A318CEO. If they can make it work it’s high yield traffic that then “abuse” their fleet with without needing A318s.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:04 pm

zeke wrote:
That’s CEO data, the NEO should have better takeoff performance and reduced fuel burn below the A318CEO. If they can make it work it’s high yield traffic that then “abuse” their fleet with without needing A318s.


They might be able to take off and fly a certain distance with it, but no way they'd make it across the pond. The A318 makes it as far as Shannon from London City, there they got to refill to make it across the pond. On the London City - Shannon leg they only carry enough fuel to make it to Shannon. They can't carry more fuel, that would make the plane too heavy for take-off at London City. The A321NEO would barely make it further, maybe Keflavik would just be within reach but I doubt it. Keep in mind, the further the aircraft flies the more fuel it needs and therefor the more runway length it requires.
 
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Polot
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:46 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
zeke wrote:
That’s CEO data, the NEO should have better takeoff performance and reduced fuel burn below the A318CEO. If they can make it work it’s high yield traffic that then “abuse” their fleet with without needing A318s.


They might be able to take off and fly a certain distance with it, but no way they'd make it across the pond. The A318 makes it as far as Shannon from London City, there they got to refill to make it across the pond. On the London City - Shannon leg they only carry enough fuel to make it to Shannon. They can't carry more fuel, that would make the plane too heavy for take-off at London City. The A321NEO would barely make it further, maybe Keflavik would just be within reach but I doubt it. Keep in mind, the further the aircraft flies the more fuel it needs and therefor the more runway length it requires.


And of course there is still the question of why you need a A321 worth of space for a A318 load. Great for pax comfort, but airlines are not in the business of transporting empty space. It is not like the smaller variants are a new type, or that C series/E jets can’t also be used from other airports in the network than just LCY.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:01 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
I linked this article in the A321LR takes flight thread and did some Google research on possible mid sized US airports to Dublin. An airline like Aer Lingus or Norwegian can take a slot at Dublin and service 2 to 3 of these markets at 2x and 3x weekly frequencies. Dublin would make for a nice connecting point to the rest of Europe.

Distance to Dublin in Nautical Miles

Columbus OH - 3110nm

Indianapolis IN - 3230nm

Cincinnati OH - 3200nm

Nashville TN - 3,400nm

Memphis TN - 3550nm

Kansas City MO - 3525nm

Jacksonville FL - 3460nm

Oklahoma City OK - 3800nm

New Orleans LA - 3800nm

The bulk of those fall right at or below the magical 3500nm ANET seems dead set on till proven otherwise by real world performance. If it really is capable of 4000nm, especially on TATL you can do that for London, Amsterdam, Madri, Paris and half dozen the nice connecting points to the rest of Europe


Secondary airports around Chicago with an FIS to Dublin, IE

Rockford IL - 3223nm

Millwaukee WI - 3153nm

South Bend, IN - 3150nm

This aircraft has range folks.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:23 pm

What cities will realistically get DY A321LR service? Could we see LGW added from mid-sized markets?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:31 pm

chiad wrote:
I thought that Norwegian had planned to only lease out the NEOs.


The 70 A320neos will still be out for dry leasing. However, the A321LRs will be operated by Norwegian itself.

As for the A321LR, I could see routes out of Stewart up-gauged to the larger variant as well. An outside chance for a route could be with Norwegian Argentina on EZE to FLL (3842 nmi)...in a J20Y180 configuration, which I see as possible even if either PBI or RSW are declared alternates. That would compete directly with Aerolineas Argentinas, which can only offer a wide-body flight on that route. I do wonder if CPT could be tried, with an interline with Airlink, as an alternative to an African connection that currently only exists via GRU.
 
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Polot
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:38 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
chiad wrote:
I thought that Norwegian had planned to only lease out the NEOs.


The 70 A320neos will still be out for dry leasing. However, the A321LRs will be operated by Norwegian itself.

As for the A321LR, I could see routes out of Stewart up-gauged to the larger variant as well. An outside chance for a route could be with Norwegian Argentina on EZE to FLL (3842 nmi)...in a J20Y180 configuration, which I see as possible even if either PBI or RSW are declared alternates. That would compete directly with Aerolineas Argentinas, which can only offer a wide-body flight on that route. I do wonder if CPT could be tried, with an interline with Airlink, as an alternative to an African connection that currently only exists via GRU.

EZE-CPT is a no go because of ETOPS180 issues. The route diversion DY would have to do to remain in area would increase the distance too much.
 
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NickolayAv
Posts: 190
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:41 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
What cities will realistically get DY A321LR service? Could we see LGW added from mid-sized markets?

I believe their idea is to add a few LGW-mid-size markets, and I think a key part of their A321LR usage will be from smaller European cities(Budapest, Gothenburg, Stockholm, etc.) to larger U.S destinations (NYC, BOS, etc.)
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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zeke
Posts: 12148
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:48 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
The A321NEO would barely make it further, maybe Keflavik would just be within reach but I doubt it. Keep in mind, the further the aircraft flies the more fuel it needs and therefor the more runway length it requires.


They have already developed and flown the SHARP (SHort AiRfield Package) which was designed for short runways in Latin America. They are also expecting a further 2% fuel burn drop by 2020. All the improvements we are seeing on the NEO are opening up a whole range of possibilities which people automatically are dismissing as impossible based upon CEO performance.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
rj777
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:47 am

Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:58 pm

I would love to see TATL service from MKE. Planning on going to the UK sometime in 2020. Would like to avoid driving to ORD to go across the pond.
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 191
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Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:12 pm

Would it make sense (for any airline, Norwegian or not) to run a double-daily (or triple daily?) narrowbody service, with decent business class upfront, on BRU-WAS (Dulles or Baltimore)?
With all the politicians and lobbyists, etc., plying the route, some of them would value flexibility and direct connection, I guess.
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WaywardMemphian
Posts: 913
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:15 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
What cities will realistically get DY A321LR service? Could we see LGW added from mid-sized markets?


Kjos has mention Memphis and New Orleans several times. I've explained it numerous times why MEM would get a mention but 2016 numbers showed over 2 million international tourists visited Memphis. The recent Anna report serving the largest unserved TATL markets showed Memphis with 91,000 indirect TATL flights a year. That does not take the international folks that drive in from Nashville or New Orleans. The Music tourism angle seems to be growing. Add in the rapid growth of river cruising that inherently one way on the Mississippi like it is in Europe, there's certainly some growth opportunies there to exploit. The vast stimulation of the market would come from Europe in all likely hood but it could certainly stimulate more traffic from local populations as TATL are insanely expensive the majority of the year especially the millenials. I point out the recently added AC service and it's success as proof of lowering prices by addtional options of one stop connections being well recieved. So much so, they added an additional flight to better service Asian connections. Memphis gets a larger number of Japanese tourists. Anyone that spends time on Beale St.will see them.

Oh the US dollar is falling again, the pound is up as well. I also predict the current spike in oil to be short lived as US production is reaching record levels, drilling rig counts are rising and the US is now exporting oil. OPEC and Russia played their cards trying to kill US shale, it failed. Now their production limits threaten their share of the export market.
 
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asuflyer05
Posts: 2075
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:28 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
Would it make sense (for any airline, Norwegian or not) to run a double-daily (or triple daily?) narrowbody service, with decent business class upfront, on BRU-WAS (Dulles or Baltimore)?
With all the politicians and lobbyists, etc., plying the route, some of them would value flexibility and direct connection, I guess.


Both UA and SN fly daily BRU-IAD with the only fault being the flight times are fairly close to each other.
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:10 pm

I didn't read all the responses so I don't know if it was mentioned, but a huge advantage for a foreign carrier in DC is to be able to codeshare and/or have tickets issued with ticket stocks from US based airlines due to Buy American requirements of government travel.

Norwegian doesn't have either of those.
 
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gatibosgru
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Norwegian names possible transatlantic A321LR markets

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:18 pm

Blerg wrote:
Can the A321LR even make it from BUD to North America?


BUD-BOS/JFK are comfortably within range. BWI/IAD is on the limits.
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