FLLflyboy
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What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:30 pm

With Frontier giving COS the largest passenger boost they have had in years and announcing new service almost monthly (seemingly), and the Colorado Springs Gazette now declaring the airport to be out of Denver's shadow and it's own air service market what's next for this airport? Could we see ULCC's start to leave Denver and move south? Any indications a new carrier is going to start service? Expanded service from existing carriers?
 
ericm2031
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:45 pm

I have to wonder if this 2nd attempt at a COS focus city will be any different than the last...and that was back when they had a much more loyal following. Every route either already operating or upcoming overlaps with one of their DEN routes, which is also expanding rapidly.
 
afcjets
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:29 pm

Who has ever had COS a focus city?

Western Pacific had a connecting hub there, but I don't ever recall COS being a focus city.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:54 pm

What's keeping WN from having a presence in COS?
"It's not getting to the land of the nonrev that's the problem, it's getting back." ~~Captain Hector Barbossa
The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:59 pm

I am hoping AS will return to COS sooner rather than later.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:38 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
What's keeping WN from having a presence in COS?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a good portion of WN traffic through DEN connecting rather than o&d, to a greater extent than most of their 'focus cities'? In Seattle, they could move some operations to PAE because Seattle is the final destination for more passengers (geography obviously pays a big role in that). They may want to keep their operations in the greater Denver area streamlined to keep connections smooth. If they were to start in COS, it would be barebone service, maybe to MDW, DAL, LAX, SFO.
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH | E190 DC9 712 733 737 738 739 752 762 A319 A320 A321 A343
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:49 pm

Well Frontier just dropped SJC before it even started, so that's not a good sign. However, there are a bunch more routes that they are starting with their large April expansion.
A318/19/20/21 A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B77E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-140/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

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wedgetail737
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:58 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
What's keeping WN from having a presence in COS?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a good portion of WN traffic through DEN connecting rather than o&d, to a greater extent than most of their 'focus cities'? In Seattle, they could move some operations to PAE because Seattle is the final destination for more passengers (geography obviously pays a big role in that). They may want to keep their operations in the greater Denver area streamlined to keep connections smooth. If they were to start in COS, it would be barebone service, maybe to MDW, DAL, LAX, SFO.


I agree with MDW and DAL...but not so much with LAX and SFO. I think if WN started COS, they would go to LAS and maybe OAK, where connections are optimal.

As far as PAE, it won't happen...at least not in the near-future. WN at PAE will most likely be OAK, LAS, SAN and DEN...maybe PHX. But 5 to 6 flights daily is pretty small for WN.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:00 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
What's keeping WN from having a presence in COS?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a good portion of WN traffic through DEN connecting rather than o&d, to a greater extent than most of their 'focus cities'? In Seattle, they could move some operations to PAE because Seattle is the final destination for more passengers (geography obviously pays a big role in that). They may want to keep their operations in the greater Denver area streamlined to keep connections smooth. If they were to start in COS, it would be barebone service, maybe to MDW, DAL, LAX, SFO.


I agree with MDW and DAL...but not so much with LAX and SFO. I think if WN started COS, they would go to LAS and maybe OAK, where connections are optimal.

As far as PAE, it won't happen...at least not in the near-future. WN at PAE will most likely be OAK, LAS, SAN and DEN...maybe PHX. But 5 to 6 flights daily is pretty small for WN.


I'd kill for a WN flight from COS to MCI.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:08 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
What's keeping WN from having a presence in COS?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a good portion of WN traffic through DEN connecting rather than o&d, to a greater extent than most of their 'focus cities'? In Seattle, they could move some operations to PAE because Seattle is the final destination for more passengers (geography obviously pays a big role in that). They may want to keep their operations in the greater Denver area streamlined to keep connections smooth. If they were to start in COS, it would be barebone service, maybe to MDW, DAL, LAX, SFO.


I agree with MDW and DAL...but not so much with LAX and SFO. I think if WN started COS, they would go to LAS and maybe OAK, where connections are optimal.

As far as PAE, it won't happen...at least not in the near-future. WN at PAE will most likely be OAK, LAS, SAN and DEN...maybe PHX. But 5 to 6 flights daily is pretty small for WN.

Right, no way a COS-PAE flight is in anyone's plans. I was more comparing a DEN -> COS movement to the SEA -> PAE movement UA, AS, and WN are doing.
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH | E190 DC9 712 733 737 738 739 752 762 A319 A320 A321 A343
 
jmc1975
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:09 pm

Possible resumption of AA to PHX?
Spacepope wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:


I'd kill for a WN flight from COS to MCI.


America West flew COS-MCI back in the 80s. COS was one of HP's initial markets service at its launch in 1983.
.......
 
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Spacepope
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:01 pm

jmc1975 wrote:
Possible resumption of AA to PHX?
Spacepope wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:


America West flew COS-MCI back in the 80s. COS was one of HP's initial markets service at its launch in 1983.


That's great and all, but it still doesn't help me out much nowadays. By the time I drive to DEN or connect through DFW I don't really save much time over driving. COS needs better connectivity, maybe starting with DL bringing back the flight to MSP.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
ericm2031
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:12 pm

afcjets wrote:
Who has ever had COS a focus city?

Western Pacific had a connecting hub there, but I don't ever recall COS being a focus city.


F9 started to build up COS similiar to what they are doing now but then completely pulled out the following year. I think they were planning on it being a focus city but never made it
 
FARmd90
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:25 pm

It’s a long shot and there are other things higher on the list. But what about a B6 focus city in COS? Connect to all their other focous cities and top destinations from COS and go from there?
 
afcjets
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:52 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Who has ever had COS a focus city?

Western Pacific had a connecting hub there, but I don't ever recall COS being a focus city.


F9 started to build up COS similiar to what they are doing now but then completely pulled out the following year. I think they were planning on it being a focus city but never made it


Thanks, it's hard to keep up with F9.
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's next for COS?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:12 am

afcjets wrote:
... it's hard to keep up with F9.

Agreed! I have no idea if F9 is flying/will be flying COS-SAN in 2018. I think there is a market IF the service is consistent.

Personally, I would love to see AAG put one of there EMJs on the COS-SAN market regularly -- that would be easier to count on than come-and-go service from Frontier.

bb
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: What's next for COS?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:24 am

afcjets wrote:
Who has ever had COS a focus city?

Western Pacific had a connecting hub there, but I don't ever recall COS being a focus city.


I am going to guess the poster meant Western Pacific. 30-50 flights a day at peak does not make a city a hub. A connecting focus city yes, but hub was stretching it then as it would now.
 
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mariner
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Re: What's next for COS?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:26 am

ericm2031 wrote:
F9 started to build up COS similiar to what they are doing now but then completely pulled out the following year. I think they were planning on it being a focus city but never made it


Then, Frontier was not yet full ULCC and the good folk at COS would not pay one thin dime more for service from COS rather than DEN. No one could see the point of serving COS if they weren't going to use it and COS folk were well used to driving to DEN. So Frontier pulled out.

And regrouped, and came back as a full-on ULCC - COS folk wanted cheap? Frontier gave 'em cheap. Image

mariner
Last edited by mariner on Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
aeternum nauta
 
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WNflyer1523
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Re: What's next for COS?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:26 am

I’d like to see WN go into COS. Definitely not large-scale like their operations just up the highway at DEN however.
They would probably start off with LAS, PHX, MDW, and maybe DAL and/or OAK.
Someday KISP will succeed. Someday.
 
afcjets
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Re: What's next for COS?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:09 am

AAvgeek744 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Who has ever had COS a focus city?

Western Pacific had a connecting hub there, but I don't ever recall COS being a focus city.


I am going to guess the poster meant Western Pacific. 30-50 flights a day at peak does not make a city a hub. A connecting focus city yes, but hub was stretching it then as it would now.


Of course it was a hub, in fact IIRC 100% of their operation there was specifically timed connection banks. Hubs have existed long before someone came up with the term focus city. A focus city is where an airline offers flights to a handful of nonstop destinations in addition to their hubs and with little to no opportunity for connecting traffic.
 
ahj2000
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Re: What's next for COS?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:17 am

AA adding flights to PHX, then possibly LAX and a daily CLT would help the area’s connectivity immensely.
DL to MSP and/or LAX/SEA and UA to SFO as well
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slcdeltarumd11
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Re: What's next for COS?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:27 am

COS was underserved for a while. Now it almost seems like frontier is getting too large, not all routes will work. I don't think they expect all to work, some are tests. I do wish them luck! Good to see COS back in use even in DIAs shadow.
 
FA9295
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Re: What's next for COS?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:17 am

COS-PDX on F9.
 
BMcD
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Re: What's next for COS?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:29 am

I like flying out of COS personally. Fast, easy and security is quick. We are starting to slowly get our lost service. We had service to MSP and CLT non-stop at one point and lost it. Would love to see some of the bigger cities come back on RJ's if necessary. (I miss the S80 though!)
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slcdeltarumd11
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Re: What's next for COS?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:43 am

What is the largest o&d city not served from COS? I am going to guess it's NYC/ BOS or PDX?

PDX seems easy , NYC/Boston take a lot of airplane time.

I know Hawaii sounds crazy but those travellers tend to go for a while, I think they could easily pull in people from the denver area since parking is so much easier and its cheap for parking you can walk to the plane convenient. Alot of Honeymooners non frequent travellers to Hawaii etc, I could see hawaiian to HNL working as crazy as it sounds.
 
BMcD
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Re: What's next for COS?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:19 pm

You can get most places with a connection, even when I fly all over the US the plane time isn't much more than going to DEN for something. COS is cheaper, easier and more convenient to get to in the end.
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AirFiero
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Re: What's next for COS?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:57 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
Well Frontier just dropped SJC before it even started, so that's not a good sign. However, there are a bunch more routes that they are starting with their large April expansion.


Where did you see this?
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: What's next for COS?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:06 pm

AirFiero wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
Well Frontier just dropped SJC before it even started, so that's not a good sign. However, there are a bunch more routes that they are starting with their large April expansion.


Where did you see this?


Just the COS flight. There was no press release or anything, but it is not on the schedule anymore.
A318/19/20/21 A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B77E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-140/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip and the Cactus
 
AirFiero
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Re: What's next for COS?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:21 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
Well Frontier just dropped SJC before it even started, so that's not a good sign. However, there are a bunch more routes that they are starting with their large April expansion.


Where did you see this?


Just the COS flight. There was no press release or anything, but it is not on the schedule anymore.


Wow. FL is volatile.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: What's next for COS?

Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:59 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
What is the largest o&d city not served from COS? I am going to guess it's NYC/ BOS or PDX?

PDX seems easy , NYC/Boston take a lot of airplane time.

I know Hawaii sounds crazy but those travellers tend to go for a while, I think they could easily pull in people from the denver area since parking is so much easier and its cheap for parking you can walk to the plane convenient. Alot of Honeymooners non frequent travellers to Hawaii etc, I could see hawaiian to HNL working as crazy as it sounds.


Here are the top 50 O&D markets from COS in Q3 2017 by USDOT DB1B. Bolded here are some of the top markets without nonstop service. I kind of doubt HA will come for 15 PDEW, even though the actual market, including leakage to DEN is probably larger. MSP on DL, EWR/LGA/~NYC on F9 and UA to SFO seem like good targets. I wish DL would resume their second daily flight to ATL and increase SLC to 3x daily, but they're probably more interested in DEN.
Destination PDEW Fare

ORD … 184 … $173.43
LAS … 155 … $91.64
DFW … 139 … $218.30
LAX … 130 … $173.10
PHX … 113 … $107.02
MCO … 113 … $155.10
IAD … 111 … $202.36
SAN … 96 … $117.39
SFO … 61 … $160.43
SEA … 51 … $220.27
SAT … 44 … $191.26
ATL … 38 … $246.77
DCA … 34 … $265.19
IAH … 34 … $330.06
AUS … 31 … $190.79
AZA … 27 … $56.12
BOS … 27 … $304.59
SLC … 27 … $217.95
TPA … 25 … $219.80
LGA … 22 … $228.35
BWI … 21 … $273.88
RDU … 20 … $237.95
CLT … 20 … $229.83
PHL … 19 … $275.70
BNA … 19 … $231.14
FLL … 18 … $211.89
MIA … 18 … $211.59
EWR … 18 … $292.58
MSP … 17 … $196.57
HSV … 16 … $308.94
SMF … 16 … $248.52
STL … 16 … $201.62
PDX … 15 … $246.46
HNL … 15 … $483.77
DTW … 15 … $219.47
SNA … 14 … $249.59
MSY … 14 … $208.86
JAX … 12 … $237.89
PIT … 12 … $233.18
ANC … 12 … $357.69
BDL … 12 … $250.54
IND … 12 … $213.25
ORF … 11 … $349.18
OKC … 11 … $207.87
RSW … 11 … $246.47
MCI … 11 … $217.63
VPS … 10 … $250.88
DAY … 10 … $231.48
CLE … 10 … $208.42
MEM … 10 … $251.11
SJC … 10 … $278.07

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