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Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:32 am
by chrisp390
It seems surprising to me that Guadalajara, the second most populated city in Mexico with a metropolitan area of 4.5 million has not one single flight to Europe. This is a city with a large number of international businesses in manufacturing and technology, and a lot of wealth. Monterrey while having a smaller population of around 1 million has a thriving business scene and no transatlantic flights either.

How is it that cities in central America with much smaller economies and populations like Managua manage to have flights to Europe, yet these cities in Mexico do not? I have heard there is tremendous feed from Interjet at GDL onto IB's flights at MEX, so it seems like they could spread that traffic out by having a direct flight instead.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:21 am
by LupineChemist
IB used to fly there and I wouldn't be shocked if they still want to but are currently limited by needing more airplanes.

After the IAG takeover IB basically went into core business mode to ensure it was making money and is now being very conservative about its expansion. The turnaround has worked but there are some obvious routes being left on the table and I thing GDL is one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if GDL was one of the plans they had for the 332s that ended up getting branded for Level.

As of right now, the short answer is because they can make more money elsewhere. But we'll see what happens once they start taking more deliveries soon.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:04 pm
by TheLion
LupineChemist wrote:
IB used to fly there and I wouldn't be shocked if they still want to but are currently limited by needing more airplanes.

After the IAG takeover IB basically went into core business mode to ensure it was making money and is now being very conservative about its expansion. The turnaround has worked but there are some obvious routes being left on the table and I thing GDL is one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if GDL was one of the plans they had for the 332s that ended up getting branded for Level.

As of right now, the short answer is because they can make more money elsewhere. But we'll see what happens once they start taking more deliveries soon.


Agree with most of this except the contention that IB used to fly to GDL. I could find no evidence of that and had no knowledge of this route either. However they have been studying GDL as a destination. This has been in the aviation press since 2015. I for one think they’ll start the route next year.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:49 pm
by LupineChemist
Could be. I could have sworn I remembered one a long time ago, but it could be that my wires just got crossed with them studying the route.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:59 pm
by SFOThinker
Didn't Lufthansa fly into Monterrey at one time in the past? I think I remember that.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:24 pm
by TheRedBaron
AM 788 or a leased IB A330 GDL-MAD would be a good route, 20 to 30 in the front and the rest in Y class.... I really wonder why they don't do it, the traffic is there, also MTY is a nice proposal.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:44 pm
by LatinPlane
Yes, IB has flown to GDL in the past. Last time IB had service was the early 80s.

On a different note look how many stops it once took to get from MAD to SCL on their DC-8s. Grueling scenic route!

Image

The plan was for IB to return GDL in 2017, but the A330s originally meant for expansion went to Level in order to fend off Norwegian. Instead IB was able to secure extra landing slots at MEX and assign 3 daily A346s to MEX that feed from MTY and GDL.

Shouldn't be problem for them to fill up an A330 from GDL itself, but adequate equipment is needed and I don't think they have more A330s on order. Can someone confirm?

By the way, check out this nice video of IB's A330 landing in Guatemala.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTNwE9vZ10Y

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:21 pm
by MIflyer12
chrisp390 wrote:
How is it that cities in central America with much smaller economies and populations like Managua manage to have flights to Europe, yet these cities in Mexico do not?


Hub economics. (And the fact that GDL and MTY are not tourist destinations.) It's why BA runs the vast majority of its TATL services out of LON and not EDI, BHX, and MAN. Same thing with AF out of CDG but not LYS nor NCE. LH from FRA and a little MUC but not HAM nor STR, both of which have regional incomes far in excess of GDL or MTY.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:11 pm
by 2travel2know2
Because MEX airport altitude, I'd not be surprised if TK has either studied GDL or MTY (waging more towards MTY) as "tech-stop" for the Euro-bound flight of its possible IST-MEX-IST. However, both GDL and MTY would be competing for that tech-stop with CUN and neither MTY nor GDL has what CUN offers.
Mexican airlines have always been very MEX-centric when it comes to non-US international routes; Something extraordinary must happen for AM to think about GDL/MTY-MAD.
IMHO, IB, KL and AF might have researched flights to those 2 major Mexican markets already.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:29 pm
by AR385
Monterrey has a populatio of 4.1 Million, no just 1 Million as stated by the OP.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:21 pm
by santi319
Central America has direct flights because its a combination of O&D, Tourism and Business, MTY has the O&D and Business but no Tourism, while GDL has both Tourism (to a smaller scale than Central america though) and O&D but no Business.... both have multiple connections to MEX in less than 1 and a half hours... GDL has the upper hand in my opinion and will happen more towards the future when Spain's economy recovers.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:20 am
by LupineChemist
santi319 wrote:
Central America has direct flights because its a combination of O&D, Tourism and Business, MTY has the O&D and Business but no Tourism, while GDL has both Tourism (to a smaller scale than Central america though) and O&D but no Business.... both have multiple connections to MEX in less than 1 and a half hours... GDL has the upper hand in my opinion and will happen more towards the future when Spain's economy recovers.


IIRC, the idea was to do a MAD-GDL-MTY-MAD triangle route. If it goes well they may give direct service to both. That's how they started CLO and MDE in Colombia.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:39 am
by jetero
SFOThinker wrote:
Didn't Lufthansa fly into Monterrey at one time in the past? I think I remember that.


Yes. Also MID.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:40 am
by santi319
LupineChemist wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Central America has direct flights because its a combination of O&D, Tourism and Business, MTY has the O&D and Business but no Tourism, while GDL has both Tourism (to a smaller scale than Central america though) and O&D but no Business.... both have multiple connections to MEX in less than 1 and a half hours... GDL has the upper hand in my opinion and will happen more towards the future when Spain's economy recovers.


IIRC, the idea was to do a MAD-GDL-MTY-MAD triangle route. If it goes well they may give direct service to both. That's how they started CLO and MDE in Colombia.


Thats a brilliant idea and certainly a money maker specially with Interjet's feed!

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:13 am
by LatinPlane
santi319 wrote:
Central America has direct flights because its a combination of O&D, Tourism and Business, MTY has the O&D and Business but no Tourism, while GDL has both Tourism (to a smaller scale than Central america though) and O&D but no Business.... both have multiple connections to MEX in less than 1 and a half hours... GDL has the upper hand in my opinion and will happen more towards the future when Spain's economy recovers.


A theoretical MAD-GDL would in order be: O&D, business, and to a lesser extent tourism. A MAD-GDL in-and-of itself without at MTY tag has enough business passenger demand to Europe. There is a reason why there's direct service to GDL from Europe by Air France Cargo, Lufthansa Cargo, CargoLux. GDL is a business/industrial destination. Iberia has studied the market and found that it's not just GDL that has demand to MAD and Europe, but the surround industrial states bordering in the area that have passenger demand that would opt to fly from GDL if the option was available.

Also, a lot of business and O&D demand is siphoned off by the U.S. carriers that all offer many frequencies to GDL from there respective hubs where it is easy to connect to a plethora of European flights.

LupineChemist wrote:
IIRC, the idea was to do a MAD-GDL-MTY-MAD triangle route. If it goes well they may give direct service to both. That's how they started CLO and MDE in Colombia.


Actually, it was it was the MAD-CLO-MDE-MAD flight that convinced IB that a MAD-GDL-MTY-MAD wasn't the best strategy and it would either fly directly to GDL, or better yet secure a 3rd daily to MEX and just get the feed. They realized that tags often only negate any profit and bring down performance. At the time Guayaquil was also dropped in preference of more service to UIO. GUA being the exception as the flight back to MAD isn't doable nonstop.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:21 am
by stl07
Another question- why aren't there flights from GDL/MTY to Jax or HNL? :D ;)

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:43 am
by intotheair
stl07 wrote:
Another question- why aren't there flights from GDL/MTY to Jax or HNL? :D ;)


Because Boeing doesn't have the balls to pull the trigger on the 797 yet, and DL would rather route all traffic through ATL even over DTW, the city they hate. Duh!

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:56 am
by santi319
stl07 wrote:
Another question- why aren't there flights from GDL/MTY to Jax or HNL? :D ;)


Because GDL or MTY are poised to be the next interamericas hub with 321LR

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:20 am
by stl07
santi319 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Another question- why aren't there flights from GDL/MTY to Jax or HNL? :D ;)


Because GDL or MTY are poised to be the next interamericas hub with 321LR

With a stop in Greenland, obviously.

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:49 am
by TheRedBaron
stl07 wrote:
santi319 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Another question- why aren't there flights from GDL/MTY to Jax or HNL? :D ;)


Because GDL or MTY are poised to be the next interamericas hub with 321LR

With a stop in Greenland, obviously.



for the fish?

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:30 am
by TheLion
jetero wrote:
SFOThinker wrote:
Didn't Lufthansa fly into Monterrey at one time in the past? I think I remember that.


Yes. Also MID.


Sorry, when did LH fly to Monterrey and Mérida?

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:53 pm
by jetero
TheLion wrote:
jetero wrote:
SFOThinker wrote:
Didn't Lufthansa fly into Monterrey at one time in the past? I think I remember that.


Yes. Also MID.


Sorry, when did LH fly to Monterrey and Mérida?


Early 1970s via NAS

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... l-network/

Re: Why No Transatlantic Service From GDL or MTY?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:30 pm
by LatinPlane