Amchi757300
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DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:16 am

I am surprised to see this flight operating MCO to LGW. Any idea why? I don't see it in Delta's schedules anywhere.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9856
 
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neomax
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:37 am

I'd have to guess it'd be a sub in for VS if the LGW flight was cancelled as DL's A330's are on the ground for a loooong time between the GRU rotations, and it would be much better utilized flying than sitting on the tarmac.
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:00 am

Can't remember the last time I saw Delta at Gatwick. Must have been years ago now. Might have to pop out and see the arrival later on as I live close to Gatwick.

Cheers

Ben
 
crownvic
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:54 am

The Delta Widebody thread shows it as a possible sports charter, but Virgin did cancel one of the 747 flights due to a mechanical delay.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:33 pm

I find these DL subs for VS really interesting, as they're currently subbing for them out of ATL and JFK already. Have any other airline partners do this type of thing? (ex. AA subbing for a BA flight, or UA subbing for an LH flight)
 
LupineChemist
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:19 pm

IIRC, the DL JVs are also cost sharing JVs so it would make a lot of sense to be able to sub out like that. The others are just revenue sharing AFAIK, so it could be a bit more complex from a business perspective.
 
jetero
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:01 pm

Are there any regulatory restrictions on such swapping, i.e., passenger bought ticket on VX (or DL), sold as operated by VX, but DL ended up operating the flight?

I'm not saying I think there should be, but given the requirements to disclose who is operating the flight at the time of reservation, I'd think rules would be inflexible, especially on an international flight with 2 regulatory regimes. Maybe passengers have to be able to request refunds?

(I say the above and realize I have flown internationally in the past year on an XE sub for YV.)
 
Amchi757300
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:03 pm

CrawleyBen wrote:
Can't remember the last time I saw Delta at Gatwick. Must have been years ago now. Might have to pop out and see the arrival later on as I live close to Gatwick.

Cheers

Ben


Looks like it isn't scheduled to leave LGW until 8AM on Feb 10.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n816nw
 
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neomax
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:38 pm

Runway28L wrote:
I find these DL subs for VS really interesting, as they're currently subbing for them out of ATL and JFK already. Have any other airline partners do this type of thing? (ex. AA subbing for a BA flight, or UA subbing for an LH flight)


I mean for all intents and purposes, they might as well be the same airline. DL's 49% stake in VS basically means that it owns VS and they can do whatever they want with a level of integration that would otherwise be impossible if they weren't a single entity with two different airlines. Their ownership of VS is substantial enough that the performance of VS will directly affect DL, so it is in their own interest to help out since they are really helping themselves as its owners.
 
Pe@rson
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:48 pm

neomax wrote:
[DL's 49% stake in VS basically means that it owns VS and they can do whatever they want.


But not a controlling stake.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Dominion301
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:55 pm

The flight number provided by the OP lends itself to this being a charter of some kind.
 
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DDR
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:56 pm

Pe@rson wrote:
neomax wrote:
[DL's 49% stake in VS basically means that it owns VS and they can do whatever they want.


But not a controlling stake.


Pretty sure that DL is calling the shots. They may not legally have the controlling stake, but I believe they have effectively been calling the shots for awhile now.
 
ilovelamp
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DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:21 pm

It was to protect VS28 and its repoing empty back to ATL today.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:37 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
The flight number provided by the OP lends itself to this being a charter of some kind.


For the books it probably is a charter--by VS.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:51 pm

DDR wrote:
Pe@rson wrote:
neomax wrote:
[DL's 49% stake in VS basically means that it owns VS and they can do whatever they want.


But not a controlling stake.


Pretty sure that DL is calling the shots. They may not legally have the controlling stake, but I believe they have effectively been calling the shots for awhile now.


Yup. BA doesn't even think of VS as Virgin anymore, they think of them as DL. Can't remember which BA/IAG exec said that...but say it he did.
Next up: STL-MSP-BIL-MSP STL for my 2018 Birthday vacation in May. :birthday:
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:06 pm

Amchi757300 wrote:
CrawleyBen wrote:
Can't remember the last time I saw Delta at Gatwick. Must have been years ago now. Might have to pop out and see the arrival later on as I live close to Gatwick.

Cheers

Ben


Looks like it isn't scheduled to leave LGW until 8AM on Feb 10.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n816nw


I'm on duty 7am tomorrow at Gatwick, so will see if I can catch sight of it then. Thanks very much for the info/link

Ben
 
Cunard
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:29 pm

CrawleyBen wrote:
Can't remember the last time I saw Delta at Gatwick. Must have been years ago now. Might have to pop out and see the arrival later on as I live close to Gatwick.

Cheers

Ben


27 March 2008 was the final Delta flight from LGW to Atlanta that's almost ten years ago it's unbelievable how time flies :-)
 
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DDR
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:21 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
DDR wrote:
Pe@rson wrote:

But not a controlling stake.


Pretty sure that DL is calling the shots. They may not legally have the controlling stake, but I believe they have effectively been calling the shots for awhile now.


Yup. BA doesn't even think of VS as Virgin anymore, they think of them as DL. Can't remember which BA/IAG exec said that...but say it he did.


Yea Ozark, I think you are correct. ATL is making all the decisions for VS. If foreign ownership wasn't an issue, VS would have been gone a long time ago. I'm not saying that is good or bad.
 
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flymco753
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:44 am

Interesting, I'm glad I wasn't hallucinating then.
Resort and other ground transportation options are on level 1.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:45 am

Pe@rson wrote:
neomax wrote:
[DL's 49% stake in VS basically means that it owns VS and they can do whatever they want.


But not a controlling stake.


There is a separate stake controlled by Delta through the AF/KL side that makes DL effectively the majority owner of VS.
 
Andy33
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:47 am

DDR wrote:
. If foreign ownership wasn't an issue, VS would have been gone a long time ago.

Except that if they want to sell tickets to the 65m people living in the UK, everyone has heard of Virgin Atlantic, but hardly anyone has heard of Delta, so a major investment in improving brand recognition would be needed. And they'd still need an airline with a UK registration, whatever they called it, or end up losing all the routes to places other than the USA, both the six major Asian and African cities served from Heathrow,and the sizeable number of leisure destinations served from Gatwick and Manchester.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:14 am

Departed LGW at 10:38 as DL9932.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
CrawleyBen
Posts: 61
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:56 pm

Cunard wrote:
CrawleyBen wrote:
Can't remember the last time I saw Delta at Gatwick. Must have been years ago now. Might have to pop out and see the arrival later on as I live close to Gatwick.

Cheers

Ben


27 March 2008 was the final Delta flight from LGW to Atlanta that's almost ten years ago it's unbelievable how time flies :-)


Blimey, had no idea that it's been that long! Thanks for the info Cunard. Unfortunately I missed out on seeing the aircraft at work today as I've somehow done my back in and have hardly been able to walk today. Maybe some other time if DL ever appear at Gatwick again?

Cheers

Ben
 
BroadwayLimited
Posts: 45
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:50 pm

Question...is LGW a slot controlled airport? IE if Delta wanted to add flights again from LGW back to ths US, could they start tomorrow, or would they have to buy slots from somebody, (like LHR), to be able to start service again.

I am NOT asking if they should or should not start service again from LGW, I am JUST asking if they would have to buy slots if they ever wanted to restart service. Thanks.
 
skipness1E
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:31 pm

CrawleyBen wrote:
Cunard wrote:
CrawleyBen wrote:
Can't remember the last time I saw Delta at Gatwick. Must have been years ago now. Might have to pop out and see the arrival later on as I live close to Gatwick.

Cheers

Ben


27 March 2008 was the final Delta flight from LGW to Atlanta that's almost ten years ago it's unbelievable how time flies :-)


Blimey, had no idea that it's been that long! Thanks for the info Cunard. Unfortunately I missed out on seeing the aircraft at work today as I've somehow done my back in and have hardly been able to walk today. Maybe some other time if DL ever appear at Gatwick again?

Cheers

Ben

It’s not ten years at all, it’s just coming up on six. I flew DL11 LGW-ATL in Mar 2012 and ops were finally consolidated at LHR in Apr of that year. Happy days....
 
skipness1E
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:42 pm

Andy33 wrote:
DDR wrote:
. If foreign ownership wasn't an issue, VS would have been gone a long time ago.

Except that if they want to sell tickets to the 65m people living in the UK, everyone has heard of Virgin Atlantic, but hardly anyone has heard of Delta, so a major investment in improving brand recognition would be needed. And they'd still need an airline with a UK registration, whatever they called it, or end up losing all the routes to places other than the USA, both the six major Asian and African cities served from Heathrow,and the sizeable number of leisure destinations served from Gatwick and Manchester.

Did you just seriously say “hardly anyone in the Uk Has heard of Delta”? #facepalm
Fair play Virgin score higher on brand recognition but it doesn’t follow that Delta are unheard of any nore than Air France would be.
 
Andy33
Posts: 1934
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:18 am

skipness1E wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
DDR wrote:
. If foreign ownership wasn't an issue, VS would have been gone a long time ago.

Except that if they want to sell tickets to the 65m people living in the UK, everyone has heard of Virgin Atlantic, but hardly anyone has heard of Delta, so a major investment in improving brand recognition would be needed. And they'd still need an airline with a UK registration, whatever they called it, or end up losing all the routes to places other than the USA, both the six major Asian and African cities served from Heathrow,and the sizeable number of leisure destinations served from Gatwick and Manchester.

Did you just seriously say “hardly anyone in the Uk Has heard of Delta”? #facepalm
Fair play Virgin score higher on brand recognition but it doesn’t follow that Delta are unheard of any nore than Air France would be.

If you look at travel discussion forums such as Trip Advisor you'll see the number of people who are asking for information on Delta flights from the UK because they've never heard of the airline, or have no idea what its strengths are. Indeed at the moment you'll see quite a lot of people complaining that their booked Virgin flight has become a Delta flight because of the 787 engine situation (and of course they don't understand that their flights might well have been cancelled had big brother Delta not been able to step in and help). They really don't know Delta's position in the US market, a position that has taken decades of careful work to establish, and to be fair, the airline's name (like quite a few others) gives no indication of where it flies or how important it is on a global scale.
Just because aviation enthusiasts know lots about Delta and most have considerable respect for it, doesn't mean that the general public share that knowledge. After all, even regular flyers from the UK would only ever have the opportunity of travelling on a Delta plane if their travels took them to or through the USA., and they'll only even have seen a Delta plane on the ground at the handful of UK airports they serve, or coincidentally at some other Delta destination while they were passing through.
Air France, on the other hand, makes it clear in its name where it is based, has been serving UK airports since 1933 and, even after recent cutbacks, is far more visible in the UK than Delta. I could go on, but most readers will understand.
 
skipness1E
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:41 am

You’re commenting on a biased set, they booked with Virgin and now are booked on Delta and are inferring they’re not happy. Many are the once a year brigade. You can’t infer your conclusion from this any more than you can claim nobody knows Norwegian fly to the US from the UK. Anyone even half internet savvy has already worked out who both of them are.
I’m a marketing analyst, I get paid to debunk myths like this!
 
USAirKid
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Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:01 am

skipness1E wrote:
You’re commenting on a biased set, they booked with Virgin and now are booked on Delta and are inferring they’re not happy. Many are the once a year brigade. You can’t infer your conclusion from this any more than you can claim nobody knows Norwegian fly to the US from the UK. Anyone even half internet savvy has already worked out who both of them are.
I’m a marketing analyst, I get paid to debunk myths like this!


I could see Delta renaming Virgin as Delta UK, but one issue is that Virgin Group still owns 20% of the airline, and Branson is known for being in love with his brand. The other conundrum is Air France-KLM own 31% of Virgin Atlantic, and there would be a strong argument for the airline taking on one of those names. That being said one of the trends in Europe is for airlines to maintain their regional brand while being part of a larger parent company.
 
ilovelamp
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:45 am

Re: DAL odd flight MCO to LGW

Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:52 pm

USAirKid wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
You’re commenting on a biased set, they booked with Virgin and now are booked on Delta and are inferring they’re not happy. Many are the once a year brigade. You can’t infer your conclusion from this any more than you can claim nobody knows Norwegian fly to the US from the UK. Anyone even half internet savvy has already worked out who both of them are.
I’m a marketing analyst, I get paid to debunk myths like this!


I could see Delta renaming Virgin as Delta UK, but one issue is that Virgin Group still owns 20% of the airline, and Branson is known for being in love with his brand. The other conundrum is Air France-KLM own 31% of Virgin Atlantic, and there would be a strong argument for the airline taking on one of those names. That being said one of the trends in Europe is for airlines to maintain their regional brand while being part of a larger parent company.


Delta’s pilot union would have to give its permission to allow this. Don’t take that for granted if you truly believe this could happen.

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