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KarelXWB
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Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:23 pm

Hi Fly is in the market for two second-hand A380s:

"Hi Fly (5K, Lisbon) is planning to take delivery of two A380-800s over the course of the next couple of months, official airline sources have confirmed to ch-aviation.

The Portuguese ACMI/charter specialist's president and chief executive Paulo Mirpuri said in an e-mailed statement that the first of two A380-800s would be put into commercial operation during the first quarter of 2018. A formal announcement concerning the requisite aircraft's identities, as well as their end-customer operator, will only be made in October once all the relevant contracts and permits are in place, he added.


The oldest SQ A380s would be an obvious candidate.

It is recalled that Singapore Airlines (SQ, Singapore Changi) has already confirmed plans to retire its maiden quartet of the type - msn 3, 5, 8, and 10 - all of which are owned by Dr. Peters Group unit DS Aviation and managed by Doric Asset Finance. ch-aviation analysis of Flightradar24 ADS-B data shows the first, 9V-SKA (msn 3), was removed from service in June with the Singaporean operator having since confirmed that the aircraft is at Singapore Changi awaiting its return to DS Aviation.


Portuguese ACMI specialist Hi Fly to add A380s
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:58 pm

Can they find enough needs for these two during the whole year? Who could that be? Also, since we talk about ACMIing A380s, could Air Atlanta Icelandic follow the same path?
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MrHMSH
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Didn't see that coming. Maybe the A380 can have a role in the lease market, but I'd be surprised if it was anything other than a niche.
 
Speedbirdasia
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:13 pm

The prime market will most probably be the Hajj-Umra Charters. Indonesia will probably be the target market. This is something that Malaysian will not be happy about !
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:17 pm

So, the pessimistic opinions over on the SQ A380 retirement thread were unwarranted - it seems pretty logical to assume that these SQ planes are the ones going to HiFly. The timing especially gives it away - the first SQ bird returns to the lessor in October. HiFly says paperwork gets completed on October... I know it's a thin bit of speculation to base it on, but what other birds are there on the market? The Thai and Malaysia ones if I remember right?
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:22 pm

It will be interesting to see how they do with maintenance and operation costs. I am sure the acquisition price will be low, which will help. The challenge is that there are limited maintenance facilities that can do A380 checks and with only a limited number of airplanes in service component overhaul and maintenance costs are high compared to an A330. It can be a challenge for small airlines to negotiate competitive prices since they don't have the negotiating power of airlines like EK, BA, LH, AF, KE, SQ, etc.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:33 pm

Siren wrote:
So, the pessimistic opinions over on the SQ A380 retirement thread were unwarranted - it seems pretty logical to assume that these SQ planes are the ones going to HiFly.


They haven't demonstrated they can operate 380s on the mooted routes and make money. Any idiots can operate an airline and lose money - and many idiots do.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:33 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Can they find enough needs for these two during the whole year? Who could that be? Also, since we talk about ACMIing A380s, could Air Atlanta Icelandic follow the same path?


They don't have to. AFAIK most of their aircraft aren't yearround occupied. As long as there is a steady demand for it, it won't be a problem. Begs the question in which configuration the aircraft will fly as most of Hi Flys aircraft are very high density.

I don't see Air Atlanta following as this is a niche where HiFly is the absolute market leader. AFAIK Air Atlanta leases its aircraft for a longer period whereas Hi Fly is the ad hoc specialist nowadays. I think that airlines like Wamos Air Atlanta are not happy as Hi Fly now has an aircraft for the high volume ad hoc market (their max was 330 seats, but will now be around 600 seats). Therefore, probably no Wamos anymore during CL final (unless the origin and destination airport isn't A380 capable).
 
Speedbirdasia
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:35 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
It will be interesting to see how they do with maintenance and operation costs. I am sure the acquisition price will be low, which will help. The challenge is that there are limited maintenance facilities that can do A380 checks and with only a limited number of airplanes in service component overhaul and maintenance costs are high compared to an A330. It can be a challenge for small airlines to negotiate competitive prices since they don't have the negotiating power of airlines like EK, BA, LH, AF, KE, SQ, etc.


HiFly is well known to be very closely connected to Airbus, so issues of operations support and maintenance won't be significant. If HiFly can make a meaningful operation out of the 380, then it is a step in the right direction for the viability of used A380 secondary market.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:46 pm

It's certainly news good if this results in a workable second hand market for the A380. Time will tell if that is so.

Speedbirdasia wrote:
HiFly is well known to be very closely connected to Airbus, so issues of operations support and maintenance won't be significant. If HiFly can make a meaningful operation out of the 380, then it is a step in the right direction for the viability of used A380 secondary market.

It seems that you are suggesting that Airbus is underwriting the operations and maintenance support for HiFly's A380s in order to prove out the viability of used A380 secondary market. If so, I wonder if other airlines are going to be OK with this kind of market distortion.

MIflyer12 wrote:
They haven't demonstrated they can operate 380s on the mooted routes and make money. Any idiots can operate an airline and lose money - and many idiots do.

Perhaps all idiots are not created equal.
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:53 pm

That's the type of operator I was talking about in another thread. I think the rationales can be good and these second hand A380s could even be some "kick ass" aircraft on some transcon markets.
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behramjee
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:53 pm

This could work if their A380s get reconfigured into a high density two class configuration offering 24-30J class (flat beds @75 inch pitch) + 620-650 Y class seats (32 inch pitch) as such a layout would be beneficial during peak Hajj/Umrah time for airlines requiring capacity as well as peak summer/winter time for popular leisure routes out of Europe to Caribbean / SE Asia.
 
Speedbirdasia
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:55 pm

Revelation,

I am not suggesting that Airbus is underwriting the operation. Airbus has a very good relatioship with Hi Fly, it has been spanning a good period of time since the Mirpuri family had Air Luxor. So issues of maintenance and support as expressed by one of the posters would be a no factor.

In the world of aviation, there are a lot of grey shaded areas when it comes to support, contracts etc etc... It could well be that Airbus might offer safety nets but ultimately Hi Fly will have to find the markets that will make the money.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:13 pm

Speedbirdasia wrote:
I am not suggesting that Airbus is underwriting the operation. Airbus has a very good relatioship with Hi Fly, it has been spanning a good period of time since the Mirpuri family had Air Luxor. So issues of maintenance and support as expressed by one of the posters would be a no factor.

I appreciate your insights, but the original poster wasn't saying that support would not be available, he was saying it would be expensive, and I don't see how Airbus can solve that problem other than by underwriting such support. It will be especially expensive for the early SQ frames that are not covered under the A380 production certificate. These are in essence custom birds and getting these through extensive modification while retaining the certification is going to require a lot of expensive paperwork.
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Speedbirdasia
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:28 pm

Revelation wrote:
Speedbirdasia wrote:
I am not suggesting that Airbus is underwriting the operation. Airbus has a very good relatioship with Hi Fly, it has been spanning a good period of time since the Mirpuri family had Air Luxor. So issues of maintenance and support as expressed by one of the posters would be a no factor.

I appreciate your insights, but the original poster wasn't saying that support would not be available, he was saying it would be expensive, and I don't see how Airbus can solve that problem other than by underwriting such support. It will be especially expensive for the early SQ frames that are not covered under the A380 production certificate. These are in essence custom birds and getting these through extensive modification while retaining the certification is going to require a lot of expensive paperwork.


The original poster expressed concern about cost and availablity of support. I think I responded to the part about availability of support. Where it comes to cost, Hi Fly would probably have not engaged in the deal if the financial aspect did not make sense.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:35 pm

This is great news! It will be very interesting to follow HiFly and their use of these aircraft. I've seen them flying for Norwegian quite a lot with their A340s. I wonder what configuration they'll have, the cheapest option would be to keep whatever configuration they have when acquired. Refitting an entire A380 isn't cheap.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:54 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
They haven't demonstrated they can operate 380s on the mooted routes and make money. Any idiots can operate an airline and lose money - and many idiots do.


Cue a wide range of US airlines and their Chap.11 bankruptcies :-?
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airbazar
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:09 pm

HiFly does a lot of troop charters for different nations. I can see how a high density A380 could be good for that kind of business.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:26 pm

Speedbirdasia wrote:
The original poster expressed concern about cost and availablity of support. I think I responded to the part about availability of support.

I read it differently. When I read "there are limited maintenance facilities" I read this as saying one needs to pay the sticker price to get access to such facilities, not that they are unavailable.

Speedbirdasia wrote:
Where it comes to cost, Hi Fly would probably have not engaged in the deal if the financial aspect did not make sense.

They would not be the first to get it wrong. Not that I'm saying they have. It's just hard to see how one can take such a costly aircraft and make it work in a very low yield market.
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Geoff1947
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:27 pm

Could these be MH frames being funded by HiFly for the new Malaysian subsidiary rather than SQ frames ?
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:38 pm

airbazar wrote:
HiFly does a lot of troop charters for different nations. I can see how a high density A380 could be good for that kind of business.

I tend to agree. They must have done their homework. It'll be nice to see CS- registered A380s.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:49 pm

Coul they not operate the a/c with the original interiors? IIRC they als fly the A340s with Kingfisher interiors?
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:52 pm

Glad these A380 will not go to scrapper.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:03 pm

kmz wrote:
Coul they not operate the a/c with the original interiors? IIRC they als fly the A340s with Kingfisher interiors?

Above it is said that the Suites portion are proprietary and property of SQ and not the lessor, and SQ will not be selling them on.
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:04 pm

Revelation wrote:
It's certainly news good if this results in a workable second hand market for the A380. Time will tell if that is so.

Speedbirdasia wrote:
HiFly is well known to be very closely connected to Airbus, so issues of operations support and maintenance won't be significant. If HiFly can make a meaningful operation out of the 380, then it is a step in the right direction for the viability of used A380 secondary market.

It seems that you are suggesting that Airbus is underwriting the operations and maintenance support for HiFly's A380s in order to prove out the viability of used A380 secondary market. If so, I wonder if other airlines are going to be OK with this kind of market distortion.

MIflyer12 wrote:
They haven't demonstrated they can operate 380s on the mooted routes and make money. Any idiots can operate an airline and lose money - and many idiots do.

Perhaps all idiots are not created equal.


I won't be surprise if Airbus offers certain maintenance supports or even sponsoring the operating costs (in certain ways such as lower parts price etc.) for HiFly as it could prevent the first available second hand 380s being scraped. It could help to generate further orders and the value of new built 380s.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
Speedbirdasia wrote:
Where it comes to cost, Hi Fly would probably have not engaged in the deal if the financial aspect did not make sense.

They would not be the first to get it wrong. Not that I'm saying they have. It's just hard to see how one can take such a costly aircraft and make it work in a very low yield market.

I suppose that also depends on how costly it really is. I don't know its scrap value but if the owner got more that they will probably be happy.
Anyway, they have some experience as A340 operators and even though the A380 is larger than other aircraft, there are quite a lot of successful 747 charter operators.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:18 pm

Yeah before opening this thread I pretty much beforehand knew what to expect and from whom. So this time it's that it cannot be possible to Hi Fly to operate these aircraft profitably because maintaining them is so expensive and Airbus must be paying it from their own pocket. Obviously as is a rule no data is provided whatsoever with regards to comparing A380 maintenance to other types or in relation to seat count.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:53 pm

Revelation wrote:
Speedbirdasia wrote:
The original poster expressed concern about cost and availablity of support. I think I responded to the part about availability of support.

I read it differently. When I read "there are limited maintenance facilities" I read this as saying one needs to pay the sticker price to get access to such facilities, not that they are unavailable.

Speedbirdasia wrote:
Where it comes to cost, Hi Fly would probably have not engaged in the deal if the financial aspect did not make sense.

They would not be the first to get it wrong. Not that I'm saying they have. It's just hard to see how one can take such a costly aircraft and make it work in a very low yield market.


Revelation, thanks for adding on to my post. I am not saying maintenance is unavailable, just that it is expensive. What is the cost of a precooler, air conditioning pack, pressure regulating shutoff valve, flight control actuators, brakes, windows, etc? I wouldn't be surprised if some components are double or triple the cost of A330 parts since the A380 has few PMA options and low production rate parts always cost more. What are overhaul costs? What is engine maintenance going to Cost? Given the small number of airplanes in service, there aren't many third party overhaul shops that work on A380 components. A330s and A321s are far cheaper. Hi Fly is going to need to contract with someone to help with overhaul costs and spares inventory. Airbus can help with spare part inventory and pricing and also hold component vendors in check, but they don't help with third party vendors or finding a facility to do a C Check.

Big airlines can bundle work and do some overhaul in house. Air France for example can go to an overhaul vendor and say that unless you work on my A380 pneumatic components for a fair price, I will take away the business from over 100 A320 family airplanes to another vendor. Emirates has enough volume that vendors will gladly work with them. Smaller airlines like Hi Fly struggle in situations like this, which is why they usually operate more common airframes. There are probably dozens of places where C checks for A330s can be done. There are far fewer options for the A380, which pushes prices up.

I am not saying Hi Fly can't maintain A380s, but I am saying it will be expensive.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:56 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Yeah before opening this thread I pretty much beforehand knew what to expect and from whom. So this time it's that it cannot be possible to Hi Fly to operate these aircraft profitably because maintaining them is so expensive and Airbus must be paying it from their own pocket. Obviously as is a rule no data is provided whatsoever with regards to comparing A380 maintenance to other types or in relation to seat count.


If you want data in A380 maintenance cost, here you go. I am not making this stuff up or simply bashing the A380. These are real concerns

http://theatlasgroup.biz/airbus-a380-ma ... -increase/

http://www.mro-network.com/maintenance- ... rbus-a380s

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... te-407792/

There was even a thread on the topic

viewtopic.php?t=774921
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:00 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Yeah before opening this thread I pretty much beforehand knew what to expect and from whom. So this time it's that it cannot be possible to Hi Fly to operate these aircraft profitably because maintaining them is so expensive and Airbus must be paying it from their own pocket. Obviously as is a rule no data is provided whatsoever with regards to comparing A380 maintenance to other types or in relation to seat count.

Are you really suggesting it's unfair to ask about how a tiny airline without a huge training, maintenance or logistics department can afford to operate the worlds largest passenger aircraft in the world's lowest yield market?
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:18 pm

Who said anything about being the lowest yielding market ?

Hi Fly for example have been using their A340s on Australian government charters for troop movements in and out of the Middle East, they have been used by European airlines as wet lease capacity. Those markets are not low yielding, and I would expect the aircraft will also be used for Hajj services.

As for maintenance they could maintain them wherever they wanted, Lufthansa in Manila already do a few airlines.

Training is straight forward, the operator would be looking at around US$400/hr to hire a sim.
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:40 pm

I was among those betting on the SQ hand-wired A380's going to the scrapper, but I am glad to be proven wrong (although taking only 2 A380's, that still leaves the fate of 3 SQ birds open). Given the timeline announced, these can only be the SQ frames.

Can they find enough needs for these two during the whole year?

They don't need to. Assuming they are leased, they should be paying a pretty low lease price for these. As an ad hoc charter company, their business model is used to working with low utilization.

the early SQ frames that are not covered under the A380 production certificate. These are in essence custom birds and getting these through extensive modification while retaining the certification is going to require a lot of expensive paperwork.

Agree and I wonder how HiFly will foot the bill. This also could explain why MSN3 will spend 3 months preparing to be returned to the lessor. It is possible that the lessor, seeing that the only other alternative was the scrapper, has been willing to chip in with the conversion costs, via discounts or similar. It is also in the lessor's interest to avoid the negative PR from scrapping, and project an image that the A380 2nd hand market is "alive", even if in the short term they have to take a financial hit.

Hi Fly is going to need to contract with someone to help with overhaul costs and spares inventory.

It's pretty clear that they won't be maintaining these themselves. But there are enough operators out there that can take over. Perhaps not cheaply, of course.
Last edited by r2rho on Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:40 pm

Aircraft will have 560 seats in a 2-class configuration.

http://www.aerotelegraph.com/portugiesi ... -zwei-a380
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SelseyBill
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:05 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Siren wrote:
So, the pessimistic opinions over on the SQ A380 retirement thread were unwarranted - it seems pretty logical to assume that these SQ planes are the ones going to HiFly.


They haven't demonstrated they can operate 380s on the mooted routes and make money. Any idiots can operate an airline and lose money - and many idiots do.


What ?


.......there do also seem to be plenty of 'idiots' on these pages who think they know more about the 'HI Fly' business and operations than experienced airline executives running successful companies.

If Hi-Fly were acquiring a couple of B767 or B777's, no-one would bat an eyelid. Any mention of the A380 seems to bring out the irrational in some peoples' viewpoints.

One other thing about the A380 people seem to discard too readily; is that it is IMO by some distance the best flying experience available; and if companies can make the maths work, it will offer their marketeers great opportunities to boost business.

I know this goes against 'conventional' a-net thinking, but there it is.......
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:12 pm

airbazar wrote:
HiFly does a lot of troop charters for different nations. I can see how a high density A380 could be good for that kind of business.

How many airports military charters serve have been certified for A380 operations?
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:20 pm

b747400erf wrote:
airbazar wrote:
HiFly does a lot of troop charters for different nations. I can see how a high density A380 could be good for that kind of business.

How many airports military charters serve have been certified for A380 operations?


Wouldn't many of the troop charters use military apron parking anyway?
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:53 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
airbazar wrote:
HiFly does a lot of troop charters for different nations. I can see how a high density A380 could be good for that kind of business.

How many airports military charters serve have been certified for A380 operations?


Wouldn't many of the troop charters use military apron parking anyway?

Is every military airport built for the width required of an A380?
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:56 pm

Perhaps a good business move that will enable them to clinch more business when carriers (especially the European traditional carriers) get affected by strikes.

Instead of having a maximum size of 777/340 sized aircraft, they can now offer to sub 747/380 flights with these, must be a new option that is welcomed by certain airlines.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:59 pm

r2rho wrote:
I was among those betting on the SQ hand-wired A380's going to the scrapper, but I am glad to be proven wrong (although taking only 2 A380's, that still leaves the fate of 3 SQ birds open). Given the timeline announced, these can only be the SQ frames.


Actually Dr. Peters Group may still scrap the first A380 to provide spare parts for the second-hand market.

Still, there are hardly any spare parts around when it comes to engines for A380s, so it may make sense to do a part-out for the first one or two aircraft returning.”


Ref https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... en-t-found

The availability of second-hand parts should reduce maintenance costs for all A380 operators, including Hi Fly.
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Dutchy
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:04 pm

Wow, didn't see this coming, kuddos for keeping the A380 flying. We'll see how this works out.
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:09 pm

zeke wrote:
Who said anything about being the lowest yielding market ?
Hi Fly for example have been using their A340s on Australian government charters for troop movements in and out of the Middle East, they have been used by European airlines as wet lease capacity. Those markets are not low yielding, and I would expect the aircraft will also be used for Hajj services.


Indeed, airlines using Hi Fly mention high lease rates (especially when there is an ad hoc situation).

KarelXWB wrote:
Aircraft will have 560 seats in a 2-class configuration.


Perfect for the CL final and other sports events
 
Danfearn77
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:18 pm

Imagine one in that all black livery they have on one of their A343's!
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:43 pm

b747400erf wrote:
Is every military airport built for the width required of an A380?


Most military fields would have no problem accommodating large strategic transports like the C5/AN124 or large civil airliners like the 787-8 or A380. Hi Fly normally operated from the Al Minhad Air Base (OMDM) in the UAE which would have no issue with an A380.
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PlanesNTrains
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:51 pm

I'm excited to see more of this type of operation, though admittedly I've been more excited about scheduled ULCC type operations using the A380. Doesn't really matter - I just want to see what someone can do with it that's outside of the box.

Revelation wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
Yeah before opening this thread I pretty much beforehand knew what to expect and from whom. So this time it's that it cannot be possible to Hi Fly to operate these aircraft profitably because maintaining them is so expensive and Airbus must be paying it from their own pocket. Obviously as is a rule no data is provided whatsoever with regards to comparing A380 maintenance to other types or in relation to seat count.

Are you really suggesting it's unfair to ask about how a tiny airline without a huge training, maintenance or logistics department can afford to operate the worlds largest passenger aircraft in the world's lowest yield market?


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JetBuddy
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:57 pm

Now HiFly can substitute 777, 747 and A380 flights with no loss of capacity (in most cases). And move half a battalion size of troops in one flight. Opens up a lot of new opportunities for them. I'm pretty sure they've been looking at all the missed opportunities and done some careful calculations before deciding to acquire two A380s. Very exciting stuff!
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:16 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
r2rho wrote:
I was among those betting on the SQ hand-wired A380's going to the scrapper, but I am glad to be proven wrong (although taking only 2 A380's, that still leaves the fate of 3 SQ birds open). Given the timeline announced, these can only be the SQ frames.


Actually Dr. Peters Group may still scrap the first A380 to provide second-hand spare parts to the market.


Do we know which two of the four frames HiFly is getting? Seems like MSN 3 wouldn't be a good candidate. It was practically hand built and must have extensive differences with later A380s. Better, I'd think, to scrap that one for parts and operate MSN 8 + 10.

Edit: Also seems like this could make HiFly a very sought-after charter operator in cases of IROPS. There are plenty of times when it would be well worth a few bucks for an airline to get 560 pax at once out of some station.
Last edited by seabosdca on Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:16 pm

I thank everyone for the information on this airline. Twelve widebodies, mostly A343s, and one A321. They seem to have a low utilization, high RASM model. The perfect model for a cheap used A380.

I'd love to see scheduled service for a used A380, but this is good news.

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Geoff1947
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:17 pm

I'm intrigued that the quote from HiFly says the identity of the end customer operator will be announced in October. Sounds like they are signing a long-term contract.

Geoff
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:19 pm

Alright, so it seems that Hi Fly could find a way to have these A380s even if there isn't a need for them the whole year. I guess, in their own branding tradition, we'll now see the white wale flying... :)
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Planesmart
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:22 pm

If the source of these aircraft are currently leased (by SQ or another airline), the leasor will receive millions of dollars as part of the end of lease final balloon payment, for fitout, re-paint, and accrued maintenance and inspections.

The usual practice, is that the leasor 'shares' some of this with the new leasee, in the most tax effective manner for both, with the amount received by the leasee depending on their negotiating skills, and of course the length, T&C's and value of the lease.

Naturally the new leasee wants maximum benefits and flexibility upfront, and leasor the reverse.

For example, the new leasee may want to replace first and business class seating with economy, and pocket the difference. Similar for the re-paint - just remove titles and any trade protected graphics.

No problems with maintenance. When a leasor acquires a new widebody they almost always sign-up for PBTH, and the contracted term will extend beyond the initial lease period, so any subsequent leasee will be covered.

Early build aircraft could enjoy an Airbus buyback, so cashing this in, could allow the leasor to share some benefits with a new leasee. Or the buyback could have been replaced with a parts contract, guaranteeing prices and availability. Or maybe SQ already had that too, which is transferable.

SQ may not be the source. Could it be MH? Or EK quitting owned or leased aircraft earlier than planned to take delivery of new stored aircraft with the company's new layout and interior fittings? Or QF doing an SQ, replacing their earliest build aircraft with two of those still subject to firm orders in return for Airbus forgiving the balance (or model switch)? Or KE needing to shed capacity with new 748's adding pressure?

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