Chaostheory
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:45 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
People paint Hi Fly as amateurs because they are compared to most airlines. If it was Atlas, Air Atlanta Icelandic, or TUI, who all are veterans in the ACMI charter market I would have a different opinion. This doesn't mean that they can't operate A380s, but it will be a challenge for the company. We'll see how well they rise to the challenge.


An incredibly ignorant remark.

I've worked with Hifly on a professional level. They're every bit as competent as their competitors.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:55 pm

Chaostheory wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
People paint Hi Fly as amateurs because they are compared to most airlines. If it was Atlas, Air Atlanta Icelandic, or TUI, who all are veterans in the ACMI charter market I would have a different opinion. This doesn't mean that they can't operate A380s, but it will be a challenge for the company. We'll see how well they rise to the challenge.


An incredibly ignorant remark.

I've worked with Hifly on a professional level. They're every bit as competent as their competitors.


It's an informed not ignorant comment. You may disagree with it, but I would have higher expectations for success if we were talking about a larger and more established airline like Atlas. You also selectively quoted me since the prior sentence was this comment, which to me demonstrates them being amateurs:

Newbiepilot wrote:
Hi Fly is a 10 year old airline that operates a dozen airplanes. They lost their contract with Saudia because they chose to have maintenance done for airplanes in full Saudia livery at Bedek in Israel. That's rather amateur. Hajj charters are a great potential market for A380 charter operations, but Hi Fly already destroyed their relationship with Saudia.


Losing access to probably the most important ACMI market for passenger charters because you send an airplane in the Saudia paint scheme to Israel for maintenance is just one example that can lead outsiders to question their competence.

Saudi Arabia has terminated its contract with the Portuguese airline Hi Fly after it flew an empty jumbo jet marked with the logo of the kingdom’s national carrier, Saudia, to Ben-Gurion Airport for repairs.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Saudi- ... ael-402524

I am not saying they will fail. I just question if they are really prepared to find a way to profitably operate A380s given their cost and complexity. Obviously they think they can. I wish them well.
 
Chaostheory
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:29 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
Chaostheory wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
People paint Hi Fly as amateurs because they are compared to most airlines. If it was Atlas, Air Atlanta Icelandic, or TUI, who all are veterans in the ACMI charter market I would have a different opinion. This doesn't mean that they can't operate A380s, but it will be a challenge for the company. We'll see how well they rise to the challenge.


An incredibly ignorant remark.

I've worked with Hifly on a professional level. They're every bit as competent as their competitors.


It's an informed not ignorant comment. You may disagree with it, but I would have higher expectations for success if we were talking about a larger and more established airline like Atlas. You also selectively quoted me since the prior sentence was this comment, which to me demonstrates them being amateurs:

Newbiepilot wrote:
Hi Fly is a 10 year old airline that operates a dozen airplanes. They lost their contract with Saudia because they chose to have maintenance done for airplanes in full Saudia livery at Bedek in Israel. That's rather amateur. Hajj charters are a great potential market for A380 charter operations, but Hi Fly already destroyed their relationship with Saudia.


Suffice it to say, in the six or so years I've been handling ACMI ops, Hifly presented me with the least concerns. The same can't be said for Atlas (least reliable), Atlanta and the nightmare that is Onur.

Hifly will be back in Saudi in the not too distant future.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:36 pm

Chaostheory wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Chaostheory wrote:

An incredibly ignorant remark.

I've worked with Hifly on a professional level. They're every bit as competent as their competitors.


It's an informed not ignorant comment. You may disagree with it, but I would have higher expectations for success if we were talking about a larger and more established airline like Atlas. You also selectively quoted me since the prior sentence was this comment, which to me demonstrates them being amateurs:

Newbiepilot wrote:
Hi Fly is a 10 year old airline that operates a dozen airplanes. They lost their contract with Saudia because they chose to have maintenance done for airplanes in full Saudia livery at Bedek in Israel. That's rather amateur. Hajj charters are a great potential market for A380 charter operations, but Hi Fly already destroyed their relationship with Saudia.


Suffice it to say, in the six or so years I've been handling ACMI ops, Hifly presented me with the least concerns. The same can't be said for Atlas (least reliable), Atlanta and the nightmare that is Onur.

Hifly will be back in Saudi in the not too distant future.


Sounds like we have different experiences, which is fine. ACMI operations are highly variable and can be quite complex. While fuel burn is important and the A380 has great CASM potential, sometimes the complexity of the charter world can have costs so high that the actual CASM of the airplane itself isn't driving the decision on what the best plane to fly a route is if that makes any sense.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:22 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Sounds like we have different experiences, which is fine. ACMI operations are highly variable and can be quite complex. While fuel burn is important and the A380 has great CASM potential, sometimes the complexity of the charter world can have costs so high that the actual CASM of the airplane itself isn't driving the decision on what the best plane to fly a route is if that makes any sense.



I would be interested to learn more about this. What you wrote is not very obvious, but sounds interesting.
 
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BaconButty
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:43 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Losing access to probably the most important ACMI market for passenger charters because you send an airplane in the Saudia paint scheme to Israel for maintenance is just one example that can lead outsiders to question their competence.

If by "the most important ACMI market ..." you mean Haji charters then they haven't lost access. They've either done work for, or been shortlisted in competitions for, Air Maroc, Biman, PIA and one of the Indonesian airlines (Garuda iirc) at least since the polava - although I'm sure losing Saudia's custom got someone the sack. As my mum, bless her, would say: I've told you a million times, do not exaggerate.

You've also compared your "experiences" with ChaosTheory's - out of interest what have been your professional interactions with HiFly?

Cheers.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
fcogafa
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:29 pm

Where are they coming from? Dr Peters has denied they are their ex SIA ones
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:30 pm

Latest rumor per Aero International Magazine:

From an German Aero-Plane-Magazine (12/2017)
One A380 will eventually leased to Garuda Indonesia and one to Royal Air Maroc.
Both are already customer from HIFLY

AERO INTERNATIONAL (December 2017) Das Magazin der Zivilluftfahrt on Page 24.
Sorry, I have no Link or electronical article.


Via http://a380.boards.net/post/102868/thread
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Arion640
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:31 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Latest rumor per Aero International Magazine:

From an German Aero-Plane-Magazine (12/2017)
One A380 will eventually leased to Garuda Indonesia and one to Royal Air Maroc.
Both are already customer from HIFLY

AERO INTERNATIONAL (December 2017) Das Magazin der Zivilluftfahrt on Page 24.
Sorry, I have no Link or electronical article.


Via http://a380.boards.net/post/102868/thread


I can understand Garuda. But what use has Royal Air Maroc got for the A380?
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75.

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Jayafe
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:39 pm

Arion640 wrote:
I can understand Garuda. But what use has Royal Air Maroc got for the A380?


Ego. Trump got his birds, King Muhammad VI might get his.
 
Cunard
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:58 pm

With a population of 35 million people and being a Muslim country I can only assume that an 380 for Royal Air Maroc would be for Hadji charters as will probably be the case for the Garuda 380.

So not really a huge surprise but I can't see the Royal Air Maroc 380 being used as the official aircraft for the King.
 
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Polot
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:06 pm

RAM has a single 744 (CN-RGA), that is presumably what the A380 would replace. The Abu Dhabi government just recently gave Morocco a VIP 748 (CN-MBH) to replace their old VIP 744 (was CN-MBH, now CN-TSD, itself a gift from the Abu Dhabi government). That is for the King. Morocco is not going to used a wet leased aircraft for that purpose.
 
Avionics09
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:06 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
I can understand Garuda. But what use has Royal Air Maroc got for the A380?


Ego. Trump got his birds, King Muhammad VI might get his.


Contrary to Trump, King Mohammed VI is already flying his B747-8 ;)

Polot wrote:
RAM has a single 744 (CN-RGA), that is presumably what the A380 would replace. The Abu Dhabi government just recently gave Morocco a VIP 748 (CN-MBH) to replace their old VIP 744 (was CN-MBH, now CN-TSD, itself a gift from the Abu Dhabi government). That is for the King. Morocco is not going to used a wet leased aircraft for that purpose.


Royal Air Maroc B744 CN-RGA is in China for D-check so we can expect to see her for a few more years.

A380 operated by Royal Air Maroc could serve:

- Peak season YUL (currently B747).
- Hajj / Umrah travel season.
- Peak travel season EU RAK-ORY CMN-ORY (occasional B747)
- 2018 Russia World Cup (RAM operated 20 flights in 2 days when it transported >3000 supporters during the match Morocco-Cote d'Ivoire, this would've been ideal for a few VLA's such as an A380)
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:59 am

fcogafa wrote:
Where are they coming from? Dr Peters has denied they are their ex SIA ones

I just had a vision that I would like to discuss with you:

- MH's first A350 has been delivered, MH #2 will follow soon (see: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=607139&start=4150 ).
- we know that MH's A350 will take over routes that are currently operated by MH's A380.
- HiFly said they will start their A380-operations in spring 2018 (don't remember the exact date)
- as fcogafa said, Dr. Peters denied they are their ex SIA ones
- MH reported that they will start these Hadj-flight-operations under a separate airline. But they never said they will start with six A380s (correct me if I am wrong)

So could it be that HiFly will take over two ex-MH A380's? :scratchchin:
 
A388
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:01 pm

So is it definitive that both Garuda and Royal Air Maroc will be leasing those HiFly A380's? I assume those Hajj flights aren't year round so which other routes wilk they use the A380 for? Or is the lease term only for the Hajj period?

I assume these A380's won't be getting the full livery of these airlines but probably just small stickers on the fuselage only and only the logo on the tails instead of fully painting the tails?

A388
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:19 pm

A388 wrote:
I assume these A380's won't be getting the full livery of these airlines but probably just small stickers on the fuselage only and only the logo on the tails instead of fully painting the tails?

That's how it was done in th past. The hadi-"season" was always a huge source for aircraft in mixed colour schemes and big fun for planespotters...

 
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Channex757
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:48 pm

N14AZ wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
Where are they coming from? Dr Peters has denied they are their ex SIA ones

I just had a vision that I would like to discuss with you:

- MH's first A350 has been delivered, MH #2 will follow soon (see: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=607139&start=4150 ).
- we know that MH's A350 will take over routes that are currently operated by MH's A380.
- HiFly said they will start their A380-operations in spring 2018 (don't remember the exact date)
- as fcogafa said, Dr. Peters denied they are their ex SIA ones
- MH reported that they will start these Hadj-flight-operations under a separate airline. But they never said they will start with six A380s (correct me if I am wrong)

So could it be that HiFly will take over two ex-MH A380's? :scratchchin:

Methinks it's unlikely as are the MH aircraft purchased and not leased? It isn't something I have followed closely but I'm sure it was mentioned that MH paid cash on John Leahy's barrelhead for their planes.
 
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Polot
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:52 pm

Yes MH’s A380s are not leases. Plus MH intends to use them for their own charter venture, unless that plan has fallen through with the new CEO.
 
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LamboAston
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:14 am

MH are planning on keeping all 6
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110 (E for epic)
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mjoelnir
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used A380 finds new purpose

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:34 am

According to skyliner: http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.m ... av4&page=2

Airbus A380-841 MSN5 former 9V-SKB Singapore Airlines ferried 09feb18 SIN-LDE, for HiFly



So it seems that HiFly is really taking A380 previously owned by Singapore Airlines.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: used A380 finds new purpose

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:35 am

This was already known right? Or is this new?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Noshow
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Re: used A380 finds new purpose

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:42 am

They now have two stored former SIA A380s ready for HiFly at Lourdes.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: used A380 finds new purpose

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:43 am

Dutchy wrote:
This was already known right? Or is this new?


Herre a long thread about it: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1372179
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Flighty
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Re: used A380 finds new purpose

Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:48 am

I think physical evidence is much more notable than published reports. Perhaps a dozen published reports of A380 deals have been false over the years. If a charter operator indeed takes second hand A380, it is news.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: used A380 finds new purpose

Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:04 pm

Great news! Maybe we should continue discussing it in the original thread though?
 
olle
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Re: used A380 finds new purpose

Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:04 pm

So we might assume that even a 12 years old A380 have some value!
 
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Revelation
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Re: used A380 finds new purpose

Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:41 pm

olle wrote:
So we might assume that even a 12 years old A380 have some value!

I think a lot of assuming is going on based on one report from a planespotter web site.

That's not to say the A380 has no value.

All I'm saying is we need more information before we can know what's going on.
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Zaf
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:44 pm

Let's wait for an official confirmation. Last we heard Dr.Peters was denying talking to HiFly. I didn't expect the first built units with the wrong wiring would get a new lease. Wouldn't it be wiser to use them for spares? In 2 years better 2nd hand a380 will be available for HiFly.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:07 pm

Zaf wrote:
Let's wait for an official confirmation. Last we heard Dr.Peters was denying talking to HiFly. I didn't expect the first built units with the wrong wiring would get a new lease. Wouldn't it be wiser to use them for spares? In 2 years better 2nd hand a380 will be available for HiFly.


Information provided by Dr. Peter's press spokeswoman reveals that negotiations came to an end and they could not agree on a contract.

Die Gespräche mit dem Wetlease-Experten HiFly, der zwischenzeitlich als heißer Abnahmekandidat gehandelt wurde, liegen laut Dr. Peters derzeit auf Eis. "Bei den ursprünglichen Gesprächen lagen wir zu weit auseinander", teilte Dr. Peters-Pressesprecherin Ulrike Germann auf aero.de-Anfrage mit.

Rough translation:
- negotiations with HiFly have been put on ice
- positions were a long way away from each other
- according to the spokeswoman there are several discussions on-going and she is confident that they will find a good solution.

Source: http://www.aero.de/news-28593/A380-wart ... ndung.html

So the Information provided by skyliner is not correct and I wonder where the two A380s will come from in that short period of time. Or have they postponed the introduction of A380s?

PS.: I posted this Information in two threads since I was not sure where the discussion will continue.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:24 am

At this point thread will be locked.

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