Kikko19
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:04 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Alright, so it seems that Hi Fly could find a way to have these A380s even if there isn't a need for them the whole year. I guess, in their own branding tradition, we'll now see the white wale flying... :)

These big birds would be great to transfer cruise ships passengers. All year round and everywhere.
 
Tedd
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:16 pm

Great news, I`d imagine any aircraft enthusiast will be heartened by this news. Who would want to see these SQ
early birds scrapped before their useful life is fulfilled? Who cares about the hand-wiring, if Hi-Fly think they can
make it work, all to the good for having a go at it.

I`d like to see EasyJet buy a few & give Europe to the US a shake-up :)
 
LXwing
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:19 pm

Unlike what some of the topic contributors seems to think, Hi Fly are a market leading ACMI airline and have been so for many years consistently showing a profit at the end of the year.
Also contrary to what has been suggested, their aircraft are not exactly on low utilization. In fact, besides two A343 they have just leased (ex-EK) and which are still stored, all other aircraft have been flying quite frequently in recent times, some of them everyday. Of course during the winter low season things can be less busy, but the aircraft still don't usually spend many days parked at their base (at LPBJ by the way).
As suggested above, it is highly likely that the final custumers are already found and it is some sort of long term contract.
 
behramjee
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:45 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Aircraft will have 560 seats in a 2-class configuration.

http://www.aerotelegraph.com/portugiesi ... -zwei-a380


Thanks for posting this critical piece of info...does anyone know what is the cabin breakdown in J, Y+ and Y or is it J and Y only?

Unfortunately they wont be doing any business for a long time with Saudia Airlines after the TLV incident.
 
chrisp390
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:49 am

I believe HiFly has done work for Norweign before. How likely is it these would be flown for Norweign by HiFly? Maybe a way for Norweign to test the A380 as a long haul LCC aircraft?
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:24 am

behramjee wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Aircraft will have 560 seats in a 2-class configuration.

http://www.aerotelegraph.com/portugiesi ... -zwei-a380


Thanks for posting this critical piece of info...does anyone know what is the cabin breakdown in J, Y+ and Y or is it J and Y only?

Unfortunately they wont be doing any business for a long time with Saudia Airlines after the TLV incident.


J, Y+ and Y would be 3-class.
 
bunumuring
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am

Hey guys,
Yes, the Australian government has extensively used Hi Fly for military charters. I can see the A380 working in this way too, but airfield access and baggage capability may be restrictions that would need to be addressed.
I too am intrigued by the mention of an operator being announced later in the year... Sounds like an operator perhaps in the scheduled arena?!?! Remember that Hi Fly operated A340s for Arik Air? I'm not suggesting that Arik Air will be the operator of these A380s, but it is an example of Hi Fly's modus operandi.
As for suggestions for operators, how about Garuda? I'm sure they would love to compete with anything Malaysian proposes for their new A380 operations and its public knowledge that a few years ago they seriously looked at operating VLAs. A lease deal with Hi Fly would be a great 'toe in the water' to see if it could work.
Saudia? Underwritten by the Saudi government?
A European operator flying seasonal high capacity charter flights? I'm not familiar enough with them to nominate any of them, but flights to summer hot spots may be an option.
Only two planes may suggest a relatively 'low' number of flights involved per week... A fully booked A380 flight being cancelled due to maintenance would be a nightmare if the second A380 was already committed elsewhere on a flight...
Cheers,
Bunumuring
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:33 am

The amount of routes where such could fly is limited though. Also, I would imagine that 5K's leases are generally power by the hour where 5K only pays the lessor when the aircraft is in the air, rather than when parked at Beja. The target market is obvious, as most of their aircraft are currently flying hajj operations. The idea is that with higher-capacity planes, instead of aircraft in the 250-300 seat range, smaller planes can be freed up for ad-hoc or other long-term operations. The big question now is: who is the source? Could it be MH A380s that Hi Fly will lease from MH for hajj flights throughout Southeast Asia and possibly Turkey (to allow TK to retire its remaining A340s)?

All that aside, this might be the first time that 5K is configuring the aircraft itself. Normally, they keep the previous operator's configuration, even if it's a less-than-optimal Kingfisher configuration.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:04 am

Maybe QF could find a use for a spare based in Australia, with these weekly failures at the moment.
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:05 am

I also believe there is a chance for the 380s coming from MH.
May be MH finally found out that their 380 haji plan is not work
(or have too much 380s on hand for the haji operations).

those early built SQ birds are so unique that basically no one want it except for parts.
 
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qf789
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:33 am

LamboAston wrote:
Maybe QF could find a use for a spare based in Australia, with these weekly failures at the moment.


They have had 3 go tech this week alone
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seahawk
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:54 am

This could work, football charter, the islamic pilgrim flights, cruise charters, replacement or stand in when an A380 is grounded,...
 
RalXWB
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:56 am

The A.net-condemned lives longer! Wonderful news and a great range of operational possibilities here!
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:14 am

SelseyBill wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Siren wrote:
So, the pessimistic opinions over on the SQ A380 retirement thread were unwarranted - it seems pretty logical to assume that these SQ planes are the ones going to HiFly.


They haven't demonstrated they can operate 380s on the mooted routes and make money. Any idiots can operate an airline and lose money - and many idiots do.



One other thing about the A380 people seem to discard too readily; is that it is IMO by some distance the best flying experience available; and if companies can make the maths work, it will offer their marketeers great opportunities to boost business.

I think many wonder, as i do, how will such a small airline like HiFly do with such a large aircraft.

Heck, no American airline except for Fed Ex and UPS once upon a time, wanted anything to do with the large plane,,

That said I won't be predicting any doom or anything for this airline. I will say, however, that if they do buy the A380, second hand as it will be, it will be very interesting to see how it works for them. Maybe they will go belly up...(aircraft too large for such a small airline, not too many routes for them to use the planes on effectively, etc) but maybe also they could spurt a second hand market for it and we may see the A380 in many more different liveries...I mean after all, some of the most interesting Boeing 747 liveries out there have come on second-hand aircraft (Dominicana Airlines, Aeromar, Highland Express etc..)

Delta A380 anyone? Ahh,,,I keep my fingers crossed!!!
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:25 am

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
As for suggestions for operators, how about Garuda?
Bunumuring

As i was writing my comment before this one, that name came to mind! The question would be, is Garuda happy with the service (profits) their larger aircraft are making them.on pilgrim flights?
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:37 am

A lot of people convinced that these are birds coming *from* MH... despite MH seeming very confident with their own charter proposal.

Anyone considered that it could therefore be the other way round...? MH looking to lease a couple *more* A380s to add to their planned operation? They might have looked to source from Hi Fly so they can be a bit more flexible - i.e. if they find they don't need so many aircraft then they can just give these two back. (In which case Hi Fly can probably find ad hoc uses for them as discussed in this thread.)

The timing (October) means these are almost certainly from SQ, the seat count - IIRC - is like the MH proposal, Hi Fly mentions an undisclosed end-user...
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flee
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:13 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
I also believe there is a chance for the 380s coming from MH.

Highly improbable - MH will still be operating A380s on their scheduled routes until at least January 2018.

All their frames have just completed heavy maintenance checks at great cost and the new charter airline is now undergoing regulatory approval. The aircraft will be converted to high density seating for the charter ops.
 
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reidar76
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:07 pm

seahawk wrote:
This could work, football charter, the islamic pilgrim flights, cruise charters, replacement or stand in when an A380 is grounded,...


We know that HiFly's A380s will have 560 seats in a 2-class configuration. That fits very well with the entire main deck in an all Y class configuration (440 seats, 18 inch wide seats at 32/34 pitch), and the entire upper deck as J class (120 flat bed seats).

I would say this is a fairly high premium configuration, well suited for transporting cruise ship passengers and providing ad hoc wet lease replacement aircraft for other airlines. With an operator like HiFly providing backup A380s, risks are reduced for A380 operators. It takes an A380 to replace an A380. :-)

Approximately 120 flat bed seats is not the usual configuration for islamic pilgrim flights, so I think it is save to say HiFly will not complete with Malaysia Airlines for that market.
 
r2rho
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:04 pm

Aircraft will have 560 seats in a 2-class configuration.

This is very premium-heavy for a charter airline. I was expecting somewhat above 600. I wonder what kind of operations they have in mind...

That fits very well with the entire main deck in an all Y class configuration (440 seats, 18 inch wide seats at 32/34 pitch), and the entire upper deck as J class (120 flat bed seats).

this might be the first time that 5K is configuring the aircraft itself. Normally, they keep the previous operator's configuration, even if it's a less-than-optimal Kingfisher configuration.

It might be a minimal change configuration though.
I assume the SQ frames are in the 4-class, 441 seats config(?).

One way of achieving 560 seats with minimum change:
On the UD, SQ has 60J + 88Y, for a total of 148 seats. Leave that as it is.
On the MD, take out the 1st class suites & dedicated cabin equipment, plus the PY class, and substitute by Y seats, leaving the rest of the Y on the MD untouched. For 560 pax, you would need an all-Y MD of 412 seats, which even leaves you margin for some rows of "extra legroom" or Y+.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:54 pm

chrisp390 wrote:
I believe HiFly has done work for Norweign before. How likely is it these would be flown for Norweign by HiFly? Maybe a way for Norweign to test the A380 as a long haul LCC aircraft?

Doing work for DY is an understatement! They were almost operating DY's main routes for them, to places like JFK, when the 787 delays were big a few years ago.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:16 pm

Hey guys,
Air Asia has 'Air Asia X'...
Maybe with these A380s Norwegian is going to try 'Norwegian XL'???
Cheers,
Bunumuring
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:43 pm

Planesmart wrote:
SQ may not be the source. Could it be MH? Or EK quitting owned or leased aircraft earlier than planned to take delivery of new stored aircraft with the company's new layout and interior fittings? Or QF doing an SQ, replacing their earliest build aircraft with two of those still subject to firm orders in return for Airbus forgiving the balance (or model switch)? Or KE needing to shed capacity with new 748's adding pressure?

I would say extremely unlikely to be QF - if what you were proposing was true, there would need to be two new A380s coming down the line by now for QF, and there is no indication of that happening.

V/F
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LXwing
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:43 pm

Could Hi Fly be heading to operate these birds for QR, flying from Doha to some destinations on the 'unfriendly' neighbouring arab countries to avoid the blockade?
 
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LamboAston
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:36 pm

qf789 wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
Maybe QF could find a use for a spare based in Australia, with these weekly failures at the moment.


They have had 3 go tech this week alone

Maybe even both then
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LamboAston
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:39 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Planesmart wrote:
SQ may not be the source. Could it be MH? Or EK quitting owned or leased aircraft earlier than planned to take delivery of new stored aircraft with the company's new layout and interior fittings? Or QF doing an SQ, replacing their earliest build aircraft with two of those still subject to firm orders in return for Airbus forgiving the balance (or model switch)? Or KE needing to shed capacity with new 748's adding pressure?

I would say extremely unlikely to be QF - if what you were proposing was true, there would need to be two new A380s coming down the line by now for QF, and there is no indication of that happening.

V/F

QF could be the final customer, with the amount of A380s going tech recently.
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110 (E for epic)
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:27 am

LXwing wrote:
Could Hi Fly be heading to operate these birds for QR, flying from Doha to some destinations on the 'unfriendly' neighbouring arab countries to avoid the blockade?

AFAIK it is not just QR itself but any flights originating at DOH.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:35 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Actually Dr. Peters Group may still scrap the first A380 to provide spare parts for the second-hand market.


I believe that when I see it - that would practically bankrupt Dr. Peters because the way they marketed that fund, it will be no problem for investors to make claims in court and get them approved.

Let's make a simple yet shockingly accurate approximation:
SQ paid 1.7 million dollars a month for leasing. This includes MX reserve and everything else. x 120 = 204 million
That's about what the aircraft cost Dr. Peters to acquire, but it doesn't end there.
60% of the aircraft was paid for by a mortgage. Considering the mortgage was closed in 2007 before the interest rates plummeted, I expect they pay a rather high rate on that loan.
At best they have recouped 2/3 of what they promised their investors. Scrap value would not save them from losses, so that's that.

Dr. Peters royally screwed up on those deals.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:48 am

aviationaware wrote:
Scrap value would not save them from losses, so that's that.


Dr. Peters believes scrap value could be worth as much as $100 million. Would that save it from losses?
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zeke
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:16 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Dr. Peters believes scrap value could be worth as much as $100 million. Would that save it from losses?


The engines & APU would be worth around US$50-US$60 million, landing gear 10 million. The engines and APU could actually be put on further lease with other operators in their own right. The aircraft were purchased for $US197.3 million with a 10 year sale and leaseback arrangement of $US1.71 million per month, which is more than they paid for the aircraft.

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TC957
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:19 am

I think 560 is a sensible seat count rather than the 620 - 650 being talked about on here. For one thing, it's similar to Wamos & Corsair 744's should a HiFly 380 flight go badly tech and the pax have to be re-accommodated on those carriers. Turnaround times will be better, and less cabin crew needed. I can see the HiFly 380's doing all sorts of duties, bailing out airlines, doing emergency evacs, sports fans charters, military personnel movements, cruise ship charters and the rest. They'll be kept busy.
I also see sense in using MSN3 as a parts donor and HiFly operating MSN8 & 10. Hope the other two SQ are retiring find good homes too.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:51 am

bunumuring wrote:
A European operator flying seasonal high capacity charter flights? I'm not familiar enough with them to nominate any of them, but flights to summer hot spots may be an option.
Bunumuring


Not really an option as the largest aircraft on these types of routes are A330s/767s/787s but mostly 737s/320s/321s. The sole 747 operators fly them long haul.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:08 am

chrisp390 wrote:
I believe HiFly has done work for Norweign before. How likely is it these would be flown for Norweign by HiFly? Maybe a way for Norweign to test the A380 as a long haul LCC aircraft?


I would say highly unlikely. These HiFly aircraft and other wet lease ad hoc aircraft Norwegian has used are not highly regarded by passengers. The only reason they have been used is to cover their own aircraft and crew shortcomings, be it due to reliability, late delivery, or whatever the reason may be. The ideal operation was to not use HiFly at all, but rather passengers flying on their own 787s.

The only way it could work is that it becomes a Norwegian operation, with livery and all (so that passengers really believe they are flying Norwegian). However, I can't imagine them doing this, when they have enough on their plate expanding with the 787s entering the fleet.

-CXfirst
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:45 am

KarelXWB wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
Scrap value would not save them from losses, so that's that.


Dr. Peters believes scrap value could be worth as much as $100 million. Would that save it from losses?


100 million is just about the gap Dr. Peters is facing between the value of the fund and what's missing to pay back the mortgage & interest to investors. So it's a very convenient assessment, don't you think? I only know the books of one other lessor with A380s, but they use much lower scrap value for their terminal value calculations.

Dr. Peters is facing total disaster here, like they did with their cargo shipping funds. A train wreck.
If they can't realize that scrap value or re-lease it, they will be obliged to try and clawback payments already made to investors to satisfy the banks. Those investors will sue the hell out of Dr. Peters, and they will have a very good case because Dr. Peters marketed those funds as an iron clad investment opportunity.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:40 pm

zeke wrote:
Who said anything about being the lowest yielding market ?

Hi Fly for example have been using their A340s on Australian government charters for troop movements in and out of the Middle East, they have been used by European airlines as wet lease capacity. Those markets are not low yielding, and I would expect the aircraft will also be used for Hajj services..

So, what markets do you feel yield less than military charters and pilgrimage flights? Seems to be the long in the tooth aircraft end up in such markets, which means they don't command enough revenue to support factory new aircraft.

zeke wrote:
As for maintenance they could maintain them wherever they wanted, Lufthansa in Manila already do a few airlines.

Training is straight forward, the operator would be looking at around US$400/hr to hire a sim.

Straight forward, but it's going to be expensive to staff up a pool of pilots and flight crew for doing ad-hoc work using these unique aircraft.

It is nice to see them make a go of it, though. Hopefully they have a big enough account such that the MROs treat them well.

Have we any clarity on exactly which frame(s) will be used for this venture?
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:50 pm

flee wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
I also believe there is a chance for the 380s coming from MH.

Highly improbable - MH will still be operating A380s on their scheduled routes until at least January 2018.

While I agree that it is likely not MH and instead SQ keep in mind that HiFlly isn't expecting their first plane to enter service until sometime 1Q2018 (and the fact that they say first plane and not both suggest that it is probably the latter part of the quarter) . So the fact that MH will be operating some of their 6 A380s until January 2018 doesn't really preclude them from being the source of the two airframes, although again I agree it is unlikely.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:29 pm

Revelation wrote:
zeke wrote:
Who said anything about being the lowest yielding market ?

Hi Fly for example have been using their A340s on Australian government charters for troop movements in and out of the Middle East, they have been used by European airlines as wet lease capacity. Those markets are not low yielding, and I would expect the aircraft will also be used for Hajj services..

So, what markets do you feel yield less than military charters and pilgrimage flights? Seems to be the long in the tooth aircraft end up in such markets, which means they don't command enough revenue to support factory new aircraft.

zeke wrote:
As for maintenance they could maintain them wherever they wanted, Lufthansa in Manila already do a few airlines.

Training is straight forward, the operator would be looking at around US$400/hr to hire a sim.

Straight forward, but it's going to be expensive to staff up a pool of pilots and flight crew for doing ad-hoc work using these unique aircraft.

It is nice to see them make a go of it, though. Hopefully they have a big enough account such that the MROs treat them well.

Have we any clarity on exactly which frame(s) will be used for this venture?


As Hi Fly has A340 they can have a pilot pool prepared to fly both A340 and A380. They can even have pool flying A330, A340 and A380.
 
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Polot
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:36 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
As Hi Fly has A340 they can have a pilot pool prepared to fly both A340 and A380. They can even have pool flying A330, A340 and A380.

Is that allowed?
 
Speedbirdasia
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:41 pm

Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
As Hi Fly has A340 they can have a pilot pool prepared to fly both A340 and A380. They can even have pool flying A330, A340 and A380.

Is that allowed?


Mixed Fleet Flying (MFF) is possible between the 330 and the 340. As far as i know, it is not possible between the 330 and 380 as well as 340 and 380.

The 380 is a generation ahead of the 330/340. No other airline with similar types operates the 380 with another Airbus type rating.
 
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:43 pm

Polot wrote:
Is that allowed?

Yes mixed fleet flying is allowed across different Airbus types, the A340/A350 is not a common type rating so there is not the same advantage as the A330/A350.
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:47 pm

Speedbirdasia wrote:
Mixed Fleet Flying (MFF) is possible between the 330 and the 340. As far as i know, it is not possible between the 330 and 380 as well as 340 and 380.


It is possible, but I dont know of any airline currently doing it. LH used to do MFF between the A320 and A340

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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:48 pm

zeke wrote:
Polot wrote:
Is that allowed?

Yes mixed fleet flying is allowed across different Airbus types, the A340/A350 is not a common type rating so there is not the same advantage as the A330/A350.

I'm aware of that but we are not talking about the A350, we are talking about the A380. Is mixed fleet flying allowed between the A330, A340, and A380?

From the graphic you posted (while I was writing my reply), it looks like Hi Fly could only do A330/A340, A330/A380, or A340/A380 MFF.
 
airbazar
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:04 pm

Polot wrote:
zeke wrote:
Polot wrote:
Is that allowed?

Yes mixed fleet flying is allowed across different Airbus types, the A340/A350 is not a common type rating so there is not the same advantage as the A330/A350.

I'm aware of that but we are not talking about the A350, we are talking about the A380. Is mixed fleet flying allowed between the A330, A340, and A380?

From the graphic you posted (while I was writing my reply), it looks like Hi Fly could only do A330/A340, A330/A380, or A340/A380 MFF.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's a "technical" limitation. A pilot can be certified to fly multiple aircraft types however that's not usually necessary because most commercial airlines have enough of a fleet size to support different pilot pools.
They already have a similar challenge in that they only own 1 A321. That's the only narrowbody that they operate. My guess is that their pilots are cross-certified to fly everything in their fleet.
 
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zeke
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:14 pm

Polot wrote:
I'm aware of that but we are not talking about the A350, we are talking about the A380. Is mixed fleet flying allowed between the A330, A340, and A380?


Are you are asking if they could MFF on theee types 330/340/A380 at the same time ?

Yes it is possible, I know some people that MFF on all of them, they work for Airbus. I don't see a commercial airline doing it.
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Speedbirdasia
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:33 pm

airbazar wrote:
Polot wrote:
zeke wrote:
Yes mixed fleet flying is allowed across different Airbus types, the A340/A350 is not a common type rating so there is not the same advantage as the A330/A350.

I'm aware of that but we are not talking about the A350, we are talking about the A380. Is mixed fleet flying allowed between the A330, A340, and A380?

From the graphic you posted (while I was writing my reply), it looks like Hi Fly could only do A330/A340, A330/A380, or A340/A380 MFF.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's a "technical" limitation. A pilot can be certified to fly multiple aircraft types however that's not usually necessary because most commercial airlines have enough of a fleet size to support different pilot pools.
They already have a similar challenge in that they only own 1 A321. That's the only narrowbody that they operate. My guess is that their pilots are cross-certified to fly everything in their fleet.


Most Aviation authorities will allow pilots only up to 5 variant at any one time . A330-200/A330-300/A330F are three variants of the A330. A340-500/A340-600/A340/300/A340-200 being variants of the 340. A319/A320/A321 variants of 320.
 
Speedbirdasia
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:41 pm

zeke wrote:
Polot wrote:
I'm aware of that but we are not talking about the A350, we are talking about the A380. Is mixed fleet flying allowed between the A330, A340, and A380?


Are you are asking if they could MFF on theee types 330/340/A380 at the same time ?

Yes it is possible, I know some people that MFF on all of them, they work for Airbus. I don't see a commercial airline doing it.


Zeke,

The 330/350 are called common type ratings. But in reality the only real commonality between them is probably the handling. The same goes for the 777/787.

Airbus and Boeing are always looking for ways to better market their airplanes. The airlines have the option, some do use MFF/MVF, others don't. Some airlines allow only training pilots or check airmen to be dual qualified.
 
A388
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:04 pm

I'm also intrigued to know which airline Hi Fly will be using these A380's for seeing that they will announce later who they will be flying for. Based on what I read here so far, the majority point to military troops. I'm anxious to know about the plans for these Hi Fly A380's.

Can it be the TUI group, seeing that they also cater for cruiseships hubs in the Caribbean?


A388
 
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zkojq
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:09 pm

If Pullmantur/Wamos and Air Atlanta Icleandic can make money using a high density VLA*, I'm sure that HiFly can, assuming a low enough acquisition cost of the aircraft.


*I don't actually know if either enterprise is profitable. ;)
chrisp390 wrote:
I believe HiFly has done work for Norweign before. How likely is it these would be flown for Norweign by HiFly? Maybe a way for Norweign to test the A380 as a long haul LCC aircraft?

Their work for Norwegian is mainly helping them to maintain their network when Norwegian's 787s go tech or when they were having deliverydelays/crewing issues. I don't think their operations for Norwegian were ever a permanent arrangement; just a stop-gap.

bunumuring wrote:
Remember that Hi Fly operated A340s for Arik Air? I'm not suggesting that Arik Air will be the operator of these A380s, but it is an example of Hi Fly's modus operandi.

It's probably worth pointing out that Arik Air used to have 747-8s on order.
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HTCone
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:19 pm

Polot wrote:
zeke wrote:
Polot wrote:
Is that allowed?

Yes mixed fleet flying is allowed across different Airbus types, the A340/A350 is not a common type rating so there is not the same advantage as the A330/A350.

I'm aware of that but we are not talking about the A350, we are talking about the A380. Is mixed fleet flying allowed between the A330, A340, and A380?

From the graphic you posted (while I was writing my reply), it looks like Hi Fly could only do A330/A340, A330/A380, or A340/A380 MFF.



I think Cathay tried to get a common type rating for A330/40/50 but were told no. Regulators don't seem to like more than 2 types on a single rating.

I think Southwest also tried to get the 737 classic, NG and Max on a common rating and were told no too?

Afaik there's no issue flying the A318/19/20/21 on a common rating, likewise B736/7/8/9 NG, it's when classics, NEOs, NG's and MAXs all get jumbled that regulators get fussy

Probably harder to stay current on multiple types when flying long haul, especially for an ACMI operator.
 
LJ
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:31 pm

Revelation wrote:
So, what markets do you feel yield less than military charters and pilgrimage flights? Seems to be the long in the tooth aircraft end up in such markets, which means they don't command enough revenue to support factory new aircraft.


You're not going to invest a lot of money in a market which may be lucrative, but is highly uncertain. Hi Fly gets a lot of this business but a factory new A380 is a little bit too much. Moreover, at least you don't have to wait to get the aircraft delivered (and this may be an opportunity they couldn't resist.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: Hi Fly to add second hand A380s

Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:17 pm

HTCone wrote:


I think Cathay tried to get a common type rating for A330/40/50 but were told no. Regulators don't seem to like more than 2 types on a single rating.

I think Southwest also tried to get the 737 classic, NG and Max on a common rating and were told no too?

Afaik there's no issue flying the A318/19/20/21 on a common rating, likewise B736/7/8/9 NG, it's when classics, NEOs, NG's and MAXs all get jumbled that regulators get fussy

Probably harder to stay current on multiple types when flying long haul, especially for an ACMI operator.


FAA definitions for "common Type rating" and MFF (Mixed Fleet Flying) can be found below.

The B737 family (along with the A320 family) doesn't have a common type rating because all 737's have the same Type Certificate -- it has just been amended., The only listing on your license is B737 for everything from a -100 to -900 (Max's also I believe). Southwest tried to get MFF which was disapproved.

On the other hand the 747-400 although having the same Type Certificate (amended) as the 747-100 to -300 was deemed to require a new rating. On you license you will have B747 and/or B747-4. If you have a B747-4 endorsement you can fly the B747-8 after taking a differences course -- no new rating is required.

As for actual common type ratings you have the B757/767 and B777/787. If you have a 777 rating after completing the FAA requirements you will be given a 787 endorsement without going through the full 787 type rating course.


https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... _Chg_1.pdf

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