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United_fan
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:11 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Speaking of AA Barbie jets...I'll be at ROC later today to fly back to DC. I'll try to get some pictures of the construction. They've installed some framework above the apron just outside the atrium window next to the west rotunda and A2.

Southern Ontario really skews things at BUF. Canadians seem to love Florida, and BUF handles almost two million more people yearly than ROC, so a lot of FLL probably makes sense. I do wish ROC could get a B6 LAX E190 nonstop, even four or five days a week.

Jim


I don't think the E190 has the range ROC-LAX :) . But,yes,Canada does make BUF's numbers look good. I love Florida,especially South Florida. I don't mind the 1 hour trip down the Thruway to get a WN non-stop.
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BUFJACK10
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:22 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Speaking of AA Barbie jets...I'll be at ROC later today to fly back to DC. I'll try to get some pictures of the construction. They've installed some framework above the apron just outside the atrium window next to the west rotunda and A2.

Southern Ontario really skews things at BUF. Canadians seem to love Florida, and BUF handles almost two million more people yearly than ROC, so a lot of FLL probably makes sense. I do wish ROC could get a B6 LAX E190 nonstop, even four or five days a week.

Jim


Great collection, didn’t NYA fly a 733 to Dulles at one point. It may be there and i’m Missing it.
Looking at all those liveries brings back great memoriesh
AA AK AL AQ AS B6 CO DL EA FL F9 HP KN NY MO NW PA PE PI RC QX TW UA UR US WN AF AN AO CS IB OA TR VS
A300 A319 A320 BAE146 BAC111 DC8 DC9 DC10 MD80 707 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 L10 F27 F28 F100 ERJ CRJ SE-210 SSC B1900 ATR42 ATR72 DH8 E120 SWM
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:05 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Speaking of AA Barbie jets...I'll be at ROC later today to fly back to DC. I'll try to get some pictures of the construction. They've installed some framework above the apron just outside the atrium window next to the west rotunda and A2.

Southern Ontario really skews things at BUF. Canadians seem to love Florida, and BUF handles almost two million more people yearly than ROC, so a lot of FLL probably makes sense. I do wish ROC could get a B6 LAX E190 nonstop, even four or five days a week.

Jim

I don't know if the E190 is capable of doing that route. Maybe LAX-BUF is possible but the headwind going BUF-LAX would be cutting it close.
 
Dominion301
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:26 am

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Speaking of AA Barbie jets...I'll be at ROC later today to fly back to DC. I'll try to get some pictures of the construction. They've installed some framework above the apron just outside the atrium window next to the west rotunda and A2.

Southern Ontario really skews things at BUF. Canadians seem to love Florida, and BUF handles almost two million more people yearly than ROC, so a lot of FLL probably makes sense. I do wish ROC could get a B6 LAX E190 nonstop, even four or five days a week.

Jim


Us Canadians do indeed love Florida. Hence why you see 6x daily FLL at this time of year out of BUF...not to mention the additional service at IAG.
 
teneriffe77
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:57 am

I know SYR also gets some Canadians from the 1000 islands/seaway area and up to Ottawa as the border is only 2 hours north of SYR. We occasionally get diversions from NYC or YYZ as like today 2 752's were diverted to SYR from NYC and I know at least one of those planes a DL 752 was parked at gate 24 as I looked at the webcams after it left and gate 24 was as up as it could go.
 
Buffalomatt1027
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:42 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Speaking of AA Barbie jets...I'll be at ROC later today to fly back to DC. I'll try to get some pictures of the construction. They've installed some framework above the apron just outside the atrium window next to the west rotunda and A2.

Southern Ontario really skews things at BUF. Canadians seem to love Florida, and BUF handles almost two million more people yearly than ROC, so a lot of FLL probably makes sense. I do wish ROC could get a B6 LAX E190 nonstop, even four or five days a week.

Jim


Yeah, BUF definitely gets a lot of help from Canadians. They love flying to Florida, Phoenix, and Vegas. I think that is why it makes things so interesting route expansion wise for Buffalo with LAX, Cancun, Punta Cana, Denver, Miami, Austin, Tx, and so on.

Buffalo could potentially keep growing .... the NFTA needs to be smart or creative.

For example, a couple years ago the Emirate rumor (Emirates accidentally had BUF as its destination on its website). If Emirates wants to grow its Canadian business / air traffic, they could easily fly to BNIA and bus those people to Toronto. (1 1/2 hour drive). I know that Canada gives Emirates restrictions on slots and flight times. Also, Currently the BNIA / NFTA already has a bus service in place to Toronto.

Anyways, maybe pitch that idea to Emirates. They do that right now with Seattle to Vancouver and the drive is about 4 hours.



ROC / SYR dont have the passenger traffic to support bigger planes or route expansion. It took BUF about 3-4 years to try and get direct service to LAX. Rarely does B6 do that from Non hub airports. Thats why it was such big news when it happened.
 
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:47 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Speaking of AA Barbie jets...I'll be at ROC later today to fly back to DC. I'll try to get some pictures of the construction. They've installed some framework above the apron just outside the atrium window next to the west rotunda and A2.

Southern Ontario really skews things at BUF. Canadians seem to love Florida, and BUF handles almost two million more people yearly than ROC, so a lot of FLL probably makes sense. I do wish ROC could get a B6 LAX E190 nonstop, even four or five days a week.

Jim


Us Canadians do indeed love Florida. Hence why you see 6x daily FLL at this time of year out of BUF...not to mention the additional service at IAG.


Yeah, the canadians love for Florida is insane! Frontier has had a 94% load capacity on average (They fly to Miami, Ft. Myers, Tampa, and Orlando) on top of the many Southwest and Jetblue flights to the same cities. I wonder what the actual numbers are. Vegas / Phoenix are also very popular amount Canadians.

Like I said in a previous post, BNIA / BUF should get creative and continue to tap into the Canadian market route / destinations wise.
 
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:32 am

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
ROC / SYR dont have the passenger traffic to support bigger planes or route expansion. It took BUF about 3-4 years to try and get direct service to LAX. Rarely does B6 do that from Non hub airports. Thats why it was such big news when it happened.


Good for BUF, getting the LAX route. Canada bleed might help that route, too, but I would not be surprised if it worked simply on WNY O & D. In any event, it's good when Upstate airports get new services. LAX has become such a huge O & D destination, and ROC and BUF both had numerous one-stops back in the 70's and early 80's.

The EMB-190 opens up new possibilities on transcon. Its range is 2,819 miles, and Great Circle Mapper shows ROC-LAX as 2,272 miles. So all of Upstate New York is easily within EMB-190 range of Los Angeles. I don't have time tonight to navigate BTS's extremely user-unfriendly air carrier statistics site, once I can I'll find PDEW for all four major Upstate airports to LAX.

Jim
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:36 am

Also, here are some construction-update photos of ROC from my trip on Monday.

Existing sidewalk and crosswalk canopies are removed for construction of the botanical / Art Nouveau-looking new canopy. Construction for support pillars is underway.

ImageROC Construction 3-5-18 1 by jimkruggel, on Flickr
ImageROC Construction 3-5-18 2 by jimkruggel, on Flickr
ImageROC Construction 3-5-18 3 by jimkruggel, on Flickr

Framework for the widening of the atrium area is under construction on the A side.

ImageROC Construction 3-5-18 4 by jimkruggel, on Flickr
ImageROC Construction 3-5-18 5 by jimkruggel, on Flickr
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Buffalomatt1027
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:36 am

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
ROC / SYR dont have the passenger traffic to support bigger planes or route expansion. It took BUF about 3-4 years to try and get direct service to LAX. Rarely does B6 do that from Non hub airports. Thats why it was such big news when it happened.


Good for BUF, getting the LAX route. Canada bleed might help that route, too, but I would not be surprised if it worked simply on WNY O & D. In any event, it's good when Upstate airports get new services. LAX has become such a huge O & D destination, and ROC and BUF both had numerous one-stops back in the 70's and early 80's.

The EMB-190 opens up new possibilities on transcon. Its range is 2,819 miles, and Great Circle Mapper shows ROC-LAX as 2,272 miles. So all of Upstate New York is easily within EMB-190 range of Los Angeles. I don't have time tonight to navigate BTS's extremely user-unfriendly air carrier statistics site, once I can I'll find PDEW for all four major Upstate airports to LAX.

Jim



I just dont think airlines will show much faith in BUF, ROC, or SYR in expanding routes and destinations. Buffalo has the best chance due the Canadians cross the boarding to fly out, like you mentioned.

SYR - Denver -> we will see how long it takes for them to get that route.
 
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:19 pm

SYR-SFB on G4 just announced.
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:35 pm

sbaflyer wrote:
I think turning this into an Upstate NY thread (BUF/ROC/ALB/SYR/ITH/ELM/ART/BGM) might be a good idea.


I second this.
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:58 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
sbaflyer wrote:
I think turning this into an Upstate NY thread (BUF/ROC/ALB/SYR/ITH/ELM/ART/BGM) might be a good idea.

I second this.


Let me check with the admins on making the thread an Upstate NY thread. Presumably the OP has to do it. It may take a day or so, lots going on at the moment.

Jim
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teneriffe77
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:03 am

Syracuse.com recently posted some pics of the construction at SYR
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/ ... g_off.html
Also the official announcement from SYR about the Allegiant route to SFB
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/ ... rt_m-rpt-1
 
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:11 pm

Good for SYR, getting the Allegiant SFB route!

Great photos in the construction update. I visited SYR in the summer of 1985 and took a bunch of pictures that were posted at this old site known as.....myavation.net. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I'll see if I can get them onto Flickr and post them here, just can't do it today.

Jim
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:03 am

Southwest's November 3 schedule extension is out. The only Upstate New York addition is the return of seasonal ALB-LAS running Sunday-Friday. It does not show a seasonal ROC-RSW.

Jim

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... t-airlines
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:03 pm

I find it a little surprising AA doesn't fly to JFK (or LGA) from BUF, ROC or SYR. I know there's a fair amount of capacity already on these routes from DL and B6 (and to EWR with UA), but there are a fair amount of markets served from JFK not served by CLT or PHL, and requiring a backtrack to connect through ORD. I guess my question is does anyone think it's in the realm of possibility that AA would begin flights to NYC from the aforementioned upstate cities?
DH8A DH8B CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 D93 M88 319 320 321 333 343 712 732 733 734 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 77L 77W
 
BUFJACK10
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:17 pm

Adipasquale wrote:
I find it a little surprising AA doesn't fly to JFK (or LGA) from BUF, ROC or SYR. I know there's a fair amount of capacity already on these routes from DL and B6 (and to EWR with UA), but there are a fair amount of markets served from JFK not served by CLT or PHL, and requiring a backtrack to connect through ORD. I guess my question is does anyone think it's in the realm of possibility that AA would begin flights to NYC from the aforementioned upstate cities?


Prior to and shortly after deregulation AA was the dominant player in BUF/ROC/SYR to LGA. AA even ran 2xdaily DC 10's for a while from BUF. They pulled out of these to concentrate on routes they thought wiuld be more profitable. They did run Saab 340 service to JFK but afte 911 dropped them as well. I doubt there's room for them now.
AA AK AL AQ AS B6 CO DL EA FL F9 HP KN NY MO NW PA PE PI RC QX TW UA UR US WN AF AN AO CS IB OA TR VS
A300 A319 A320 BAE146 BAC111 DC8 DC9 DC10 MD80 707 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 L10 F27 F28 F100 ERJ CRJ SE-210 SSC B1900 ATR42 ATR72 DH8 E120 SWM
 
Dominion301
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:40 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Southwest's November 3 schedule extension is out. The only Upstate New York addition is the return of seasonal ALB-LAS running Sunday-Friday. It does not show a seasonal ROC-RSW.

Jim

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... t-airlines


Doesn't the seasonal ROC-RSW flight only start in November each year? This WN extension is only until sometime in October.
 
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:24 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
ROC / SYR dont have the passenger traffic to support bigger planes or route expansion. It took BUF about 3-4 years to try and get direct service to LAX. Rarely does B6 do that from Non hub airports. Thats why it was such big news when it happened.


Good for BUF, getting the LAX route. Canada bleed might help that route, too, but I would not be surprised if it worked simply on WNY O & D. In any event, it's good when Upstate airports get new services. LAX has become such a huge O & D destination, and ROC and BUF both had numerous one-stops back in the 70's and early 80's.

The EMB-190 opens up new possibilities on transcon. Its range is 2,819 miles, and Great Circle Mapper shows ROC-LAX as 2,272 miles. So all of Upstate New York is easily within EMB-190 range of Los Angeles. I don't have time tonight to navigate BTS's extremely user-unfriendly air carrier statistics site, once I can I'll find PDEW for all four major Upstate airports to LAX.

Jim



I just dont think airlines will show much faith in BUF, ROC, or SYR in expanding routes and destinations. Buffalo has the best chance due the Canadians cross the boarding to fly out, like you mentioned.

SYR - Denver -> we will see how long it takes for them to get that route.

I don't see that happening for a long time, but I didn't see DEN-HSV coming, so who knows? I don't think it will happen at least until UA matches WN's DEN-ALB or F9's DEN-BUF, however. I'm rooting for this route, as I fly SYR-XXX-DEN more than anywhere else.
 
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:26 pm

Adipasquale wrote:
I find it a little surprising AA doesn't fly to JFK (or LGA) from BUF, ROC or SYR. I know there's a fair amount of capacity already on these routes from DL and B6 (and to EWR with UA), but there are a fair amount of markets served from JFK not served by CLT or PHL, and requiring a backtrack to connect through ORD. I guess my question is does anyone think it's in the realm of possibility that AA would begin flights to NYC from the aforementioned upstate cities?

I don't think AA cares that much about connecting traffic at JFK. They used to fly these routes back in the 90's, but I think they look at their transatlantic service at JFK as O&D, except for a few major markets.
 
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:32 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Doesn't the seasonal ROC-RSW flight only start in November each year? This WN extension is only until sometime in October.


Yes, it says October 3, I apologize for the error.

Jim
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Buffalomatt1027
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:33 pm

Adipasquale wrote:
I find it a little surprising AA doesn't fly to JFK (or LGA) from BUF, ROC or SYR. I know there's a fair amount of capacity already on these routes from DL and B6 (and to EWR with UA), but there are a fair amount of markets served from JFK not served by CLT or PHL, and requiring a backtrack to connect through ORD. I guess my question is does anyone think it's in the realm of possibility that AA would begin flights to NYC from the aforementioned upstate cities?



Jetblue ..... simple as that. AA doesnt want to compete with them at JFK. Legacy carriers dont seem to want to expand at BNIA / Buffalo.


So I am going so say .... No, AA will not begin flights back to NYC out of Buffalo.
 
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:36 pm

cosyr wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
DCA-ROCguy wrote:

Good for BUF, getting the LAX route. Canada bleed might help that route, too, but I would not be surprised if it worked simply on WNY O & D. In any event, it's good when Upstate airports get new services. LAX has become such a huge O & D destination, and ROC and BUF both had numerous one-stops back in the 70's and early 80's.

The EMB-190 opens up new possibilities on transcon. Its range is 2,819 miles, and Great Circle Mapper shows ROC-LAX as 2,272 miles. So all of Upstate New York is easily within EMB-190 range of Los Angeles. I don't have time tonight to navigate BTS's extremely user-unfriendly air carrier statistics site, once I can I'll find PDEW for all four major Upstate airports to LAX.

Jim



I just dont think airlines will show much faith in BUF, ROC, or SYR in expanding routes and destinations. Buffalo has the best chance due the Canadians cross the boarding to fly out, like you mentioned.

SYR - Denver -> we will see how long it takes for them to get that route.

I don't see that happening for a long time, but I didn't see DEN-HSV coming, so who knows? I don't think it will happen at least until UA matches WN's DEN-ALB or F9's DEN-BUF, however. I'm rooting for this route, as I fly SYR-XXX-DEN more than anywhere else.


I hope so too! I just think it will take a few years to actually happen.
 
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:38 pm

cosyr wrote:
I don't think AA cares that much about connecting traffic at JFK. They used to fly these routes back in the 90's, but I think they look at their transatlantic service at JFK as O&D, except for a few major markets.


Yes. AA seems to have given up on connecting traffic at JFK--part, no doubt, of why they AA didn't finish their new terminal at JFK. Delta seems to have decisively won the market battle for running an international hub at JFK.

Also, given that AA had to sell off a lot of US's LGA capacity to get the merger approved, AA isn't really left with an opening to grow again in NYC. Current legacy-carrier cost structures seem to support one legacy to each NY airport from Upstate--DL to LGA and JFK, and UA to EWR.

Jim
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:41 pm

I remember that in the 80's, United tried to run ROC-DTW-DEN twice daily, and it didn't last. I don't know if ROC has DEN on their radar today like SYR does. I'll have to look it up. My guess is that if UA tried today, it would be an E-Jet that did DEN-ROC in the evening, arrived late and RON'd, and left early am. But I suspect the price of say one daily United Express E-Jet to DEN would be that one of our mainline flights to ORD would be downgraded to Express.

Jim
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:21 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
I remember that in the 80's, United tried to run ROC-DTW-DEN twice daily, and it didn't last. I don't know if ROC has DEN on their radar today like SYR does. I'll have to look it up. My guess is that if UA tried today, it would be an E-Jet that did DEN-ROC in the evening, arrived late and RON'd, and left early am. But I suspect the price of say one daily United Express E-Jet to DEN would be that one of our mainline flights to ORD would be downgraded to Express.

Jim

Perhaps, but in exchange for more Express, just think of the new city pairs that would go from 3 flights down to 2. Most of the west of the Rockies would be one connection away through DEN, even lots of the little cities in CA.
 
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:40 pm

cosyr wrote:
Perhaps, but in exchange for more Express, just think of the new city pairs that would go from 3 flights down to 2. Most of the west of the Rockies would be one connection away through DEN, even lots of the little cities in CA.


DEN would be a net gain in that regard, just like when ROC got MSP on NW and then DL. One I wish would return is ROC-DFW, which AA ran on a CR7 before the 2008 financial crisis. That's another hub that could reduce some city pairs from three flights to two. But, given AA's mysterious apparent cold shoulder to ROC right now, probably not likely.

Jim
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:48 pm

teneriffe77 wrote:
I know SYR also gets some Canadians from the 1000 islands/seaway area and up to Ottawa as the border is only 2 hours north of SYR. We occasionally get diversions from NYC or YYZ as like today 2 752's were diverted to SYR from NYC and I know at least one of those planes a DL 752 was parked at gate 24 as I looked at the webcams after it left and gate 24 was as up as it could go.


Absolutely. Every time I go to SYR and try to find parking in the multi-story garage a huge number of the spaces are taken by vehicles with Canadian plates. Plus I have friends in the Rideau Lakes region that drive down to SYR for Florida flights.
Lastly, my family finds the B1900 connections on Air Canada via YYZ to be quite useful, AC often has good fares to Latam.
707-300/717/727-200/737-100,200,300,400,500,700,800/747-200,300,400/757-200,300/767-300,400
777-200/788/DC3/DC6/DC8/DC9/DC10/MD80s/L1011/A300/A319,320,321/A332/A343/A388/BAE146
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UPNYGuy
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:01 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
TucsonDave wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

I think this is a common problem for all airports in NY state. Buffalo / BNIA has only recently been recovering from the airline mergers from a few years ago with the addition of Frontier, Jet blue expanding to LA, Southwest in Florida, Cancun / Punta Cana flights, OneJet albany flights and so on. (It took Jet Blue 2-3 years to come around to the BUF - LA flight.)

The main issue is the legacy carriers. As you can see, all the carriers expanding routes are low cost carriers. I cant remember any full time route expansion by any big airline off the top of my head. I am sure ROC / SYR you could most likely say the same thing about. SYR is almost begging United to provide a direct flight to Denver and i doubt it happens.

If the SYR airport authority is to be believed, there is considerable demand for n/s service to DEN, and United is definitely
interested and supportive. The authority at DEN is supportive as well. Defense contractors in CNY have been clamoring for the service. Frankly, I wish the Authority would get off their duffs and lure WN to SYR. They also have a large operation in DEN.


WN has tried Buffalo and Albany direct flights to Denver.

Buffalo was just seasonal and they had some awful flight times. It was 2 summers ago. I dont know about Albany, I just know they tried it. I am going to assume both were not successful.

And if United / SYR want to get it done .... it would be done by now. I think that Denver is going over some major expansion. Maybe after that?


WN still does ALB-DEN. They axed ALB-LAS and replaced if with a higher yielding route that had better connecting opportunity. Interesting of note is that ALB-LAS is returning seasonally.
 
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Re: What's Going On In Rochester, NY (ROC) 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:49 pm

UPNYGuy wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
TucsonDave wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
If the SYR airport authority is to be believed, there is considerable demand for n/s service to DEN, and United is definitely
interested and supportive. The authority at DEN is supportive as well. Defense contractors in CNY have been clamoring for the service. Frankly, I wish the Authority would get off their duffs and lure WN to SYR. They also have a large operation in DEN.


WN has tried Buffalo and Albany direct flights to Denver.

Buffalo was just seasonal and they had some awful flight times. It was 2 summers ago. I dont know about Albany, I just know they tried it. I am going to assume both were not successful.

And if United / SYR want to get it done .... it would be done by now. I think that Denver is going over some major expansion. Maybe after that?


WN still does ALB-DEN. They axed ALB-LAS and replaced if with a higher yielding route that had better connecting opportunity. Interesting of note is that ALB-LAS is returning seasonally.


Good for ALB! Buffalo will have service to Denver with Frontier. I know it starts soon.
 
worldranger
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:32 pm

How’s JBs BUF LAX doing? Loads justify?
 
ROCDLFAN
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:15 pm

worldranger wrote:
How’s JBs BUF LAX doing? Loads justify?


This route has just always had a question mark next to it for me. The loads from what I’ve heard have always been fairly decent, but with the fares being what they are, I just cannot understand how a profit is being made on it. If memory serves me the incentives run out this year (I could be wrong on that) and once that happens, I’d say this route is in trouble. Remember- loads can be 95% on a route every single day. But if you’re only charging $150 per seat, then that’s not giving a lot of room for $$.

(Although just to clarify, I hope that’s not the case. If this route fails, that will widely discourage any legacy carrier from trying any westward expansion from any airport
In WNY.)
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
tphuang
Posts: 1007
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:39 pm

ROCDLFAN wrote:
worldranger wrote:
How’s JBs BUF LAX doing? Loads justify?


This route has just always had a question mark next to it for me. The loads from what I’ve heard have always been fairly decent, but with the fares being what they are, I just cannot understand how a profit is being made on it. If memory serves me the incentives run out this year (I could be wrong on that) and once that happens, I’d say this route is in trouble. Remember- loads can be 95% on a route every single day. But if you’re only charging $150 per seat, then that’s not giving a lot of room for $$.

(Although just to clarify, I hope that’s not the case. If this route fails, that will widely discourage any legacy carrier from trying any westward expansion from any airport
In WNY.)


BUF-LAX is one of the lowest yielding transcon routes JB operates. As long as they get subsidies, I'd imagine they can keep it going. But if that goes away, it's hard to see a load Factor that could justify the fare numbers. I do think maybe they could keep it as a 4 day a week kind of routes. Maybe they can try SFO on the other 3 days a week? I doubt they will do that.
 
Buffalomatt1027
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:02 am

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:51 pm

ROCDLFAN wrote:
worldranger wrote:
How’s JBs BUF LAX doing? Loads justify?


This route has just always had a question mark next to it for me. The loads from what I’ve heard have always been fairly decent, but with the fares being what they are, I just cannot understand how a profit is being made on it. If memory serves me the incentives run out this year (I could be wrong on that) and once that happens, I’d say this route is in trouble. Remember- loads can be 95% on a route every single day. But if you’re only charging $150 per seat, then that’s not giving a lot of room for $$.

(Although just to clarify, I hope that’s not the case. If this route fails, that will widely discourage any legacy carrier from trying any westward expansion from any airport
In WNY.)


From everything I have heard / read ..... the LAX - BUF has been good / where they expected. I agree if this route fails, legacy carriers would never expand West. We cant even get direct service to Dallas / Houston. (I know that isnt "west")

Also- ticket prices are more than just 150 bucks one way. They range from 220 to 370 dollars one way without taxes or any other fees.
 
BUFJACK10
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:57 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
ROCDLFAN wrote:
worldranger wrote:
How’s JBs BUF LAX doing? Loads justify?


This route has just always had a question mark next to it for me. The loads from what I’ve heard have always been fairly decent, but with the fares being what they are, I just cannot understand how a profit is being made on it. If memory serves me the incentives run out this year (I could be wrong on that) and once that happens, I’d say this route is in trouble. Remember- loads can be 95% on a route every single day. But if you’re only charging $150 per seat, then that’s not giving a lot of room for $$.

(Although just to clarify, I hope that’s not the case. If this route fails, that will widely discourage any legacy carrier from trying any westward expansion from any airport
In WNY.)


From everything I have heard / read ..... the LAX - BUF has been good / where they expected. I agree if this route fails, legacy carriers would never expand West. We cant even get direct service to Dallas / Houston. (I know that isnt "west")

Also- ticket prices are more than just 150 bucks one way. They range from 220 to 370 dollars one way without taxes or any other fees.


I may be wrong on this but I do not believe any incentives were offered to operate this route. As far as I know the NFTA hasn’t offered any incentives for new service.

Correct me if I’m wrong. I also heard it’s doing well but with reduced service in the first quarter
AA AK AL AQ AS B6 CO DL EA FL F9 HP KN NY MO NW PA PE PI RC QX TW UA UR US WN AF AN AO CS IB OA TR VS
A300 A319 A320 BAE146 BAC111 DC8 DC9 DC10 MD80 707 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 L10 F27 F28 F100 ERJ CRJ SE-210 SSC B1900 ATR42 ATR72 DH8 E120 SWM
 
Buffalomatt1027
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:02 am

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:13 pm

BUFJACK10 wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
ROCDLFAN wrote:

This route has just always had a question mark next to it for me. The loads from what I’ve heard have always been fairly decent, but with the fares being what they are, I just cannot understand how a profit is being made on it. If memory serves me the incentives run out this year (I could be wrong on that) and once that happens, I’d say this route is in trouble. Remember- loads can be 95% on a route every single day. But if you’re only charging $150 per seat, then that’s not giving a lot of room for $$.

(Although just to clarify, I hope that’s not the case. If this route fails, that will widely discourage any legacy carrier from trying any westward expansion from any airport
In WNY.)


From everything I have heard / read ..... the LAX - BUF has been good / where they expected. I agree if this route fails, legacy carriers would never expand West. We cant even get direct service to Dallas / Houston. (I know that isnt "west")

Also- ticket prices are more than just 150 bucks one way. They range from 220 to 370 dollars one way without taxes or any other fees.


I may be wrong on this but I do not believe any incentives were offered to operate this route. As far as I know the NFTA hasn’t offered any incentives for new service.

Correct me if I’m wrong. I also heard it’s doing well but with reduced service in the first quarter


During the winter they reduced the service .... it should be back soon for summer.

And I would have to assume that Jetblue took the incentive. I know the NFTA was offering if for service to LAX.
 
maximairways
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:05 am

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:29 am

BUFJACK10 wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
ROCDLFAN wrote:

This route has just always had a question mark next to it for me. The loads from what I’ve heard have always been fairly decent, but with the fares being what they are, I just cannot understand how a profit is being made on it. If memory serves me the incentives run out this year (I could be wrong on that) and once that happens, I’d say this route is in trouble. Remember- loads can be 95% on a route every single day. But if you’re only charging $150 per seat, then that’s not giving a lot of room for $$.

(Although just to clarify, I hope that’s not the case. If this route fails, that will widely discourage any legacy carrier from trying any westward expansion from any airport
In WNY.)


From everything I have heard / read ..... the LAX - BUF has been good / where they expected. I agree if this route fails, legacy carriers would never expand West. We cant even get direct service to Dallas / Houston. (I know that isnt "west")

Also- ticket prices are more than just 150 bucks one way. They range from 220 to 370 dollars one way without taxes or any other fees.


I may be wrong on this but I do not believe any incentives were offered to operate this route. As far as I know the NFTA hasn’t offered any incentives for new service.

Correct me if I’m wrong. I also heard it’s doing well but with reduced service in the first quarter


This is correct. They only offered 1 year of advertising matching up to 50k, and 1 year of waived landing fees. The 2 year anniversary of the route is in June or July, so they aren't getting any incentive currently.
 
BUFJACK10
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:33 am

So far, much of the response activity has been centered around the larger upstate airports. I've always been interested in what sort of terminal facilities are in the smaller airports such as Plattsburg, Ogdensburg, Elmira etc. If anyone has any photos of these airports it would be good to see. Thanks in advance.
AA AK AL AQ AS B6 CO DL EA FL F9 HP KN NY MO NW PA PE PI RC QX TW UA UR US WN AF AN AO CS IB OA TR VS
A300 A319 A320 BAE146 BAC111 DC8 DC9 DC10 MD80 707 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 L10 F27 F28 F100 ERJ CRJ SE-210 SSC B1900 ATR42 ATR72 DH8 E120 SWM
 
DCA-ROCguy
Topic Author
Posts: 4045
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:32 am

Ogdensburg has a nice website for their airport. The video shows the inside and outside of the terminal, with an Allegiant A320 in new colors arriving and deplaning. I knew Allegiant flies there, but didn't know that Cape Air flies to Albany.

http://www.ogsair.com/

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
B595
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:52 am

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:15 am

BUFJACK10 wrote:
So far, much of the response activity has been centered around the larger upstate airports. I've always been interested in what sort of terminal facilities are in the smaller airports such as Plattsburg, Ogdensburg, Elmira etc. If anyone has any photos of these airports it would be good to see. Thanks in advance.


Here's something about PBG that I posted a while back in the New England Aviation thread:

B595 wrote:
Not technically New England, but near enough:

Plattsburgh (PBG) will have a new customs facility shortly, and there is word that a Paris flight is "likely". A Paris flight would be a real coup for their "Montreal-Sud" strategy. I wonder what the carrier would be? Norwegian? XL Airways? It would have to be an LCC.

PBG also will be getting a daily flight to IAD on United Express CRJs.

http://www.mynbc5.com/article/plattsburgh-international-airport-likely-offering-nonstop-flights-to-washington-dc/15064136
 
User avatar
ClipperYankee
Posts: 68
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:22 am

I don't have pictures but Elmira is ok, I've flown out of there or picked up and dropped off relatives many times. The check in section is ok but the area to wait for passengers is tiny and it encroaches on a Dunkin Donuts. The TSA area for such a small airport usually has kind of long lines as I believe there is only one set of security machines.
About four air bridges, if memory serves, and parking is right outside the door.
If I can't get a good fare out of ITH or SYR I always aim for ELM. ROC usually has good fares but it's quite a schlep for me.

http://www.chemungcountyny.gov/departme ... index.php/

By one of the vids on their homepage it looks like they'd love UA 787 service, LOL.
707-300/717/727-200/737-100,200,300,400,500,700,800/747-200,300,400/757-200,300/767-300,400
777-200/788/DC3/DC6/DC8/DC9/DC10/MD80s/L1011/A300/A319,320,321/A332/A343/A388/BAE146
ATP/ATR42/DHC2,3,7,8/SF340B/CRJ200,700,900/ERJ140,145,175,190/F70,100/B1900
 
sbaflyer
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:31 pm

Was just checking out the major airlines's summer SYR schedule (based on a weekday in June).

AA
BOS - 1x (1x E40)
PHL - 5x (2x E75, 3x E45)
DCA - 3x (1x E75, 2x CRJ)
ORD - 4x (2x E75, 2x CR7)
CLT - 4x (2x 319, 1x CR9, 1x CR7)

B6
BOS - 1x (1x E90)
JFK - 2x (2x E90)
MCO - 1x (1x E90)

DL
JFK - 3x (1x CR9, 2x CRJ)
LGA - 4x (1x CR9, 3x CRJ)
DTW - 4x (1x CR9, 1x CR7, 2x CRJ)
MSP - 1x (1x MD-90)
ATL - 3x (1x MD-90, 2x MD-88)

UA
EWR - 4x (1x E70, 3x E45) - their summer schedule has odd timings, 600, 640, 945, 1620 departures from SYR
ORD - 5x (4x E75, 1 CR7) - no mainline like last summer, but increased frequency compared to last summer
IAD - 3x (3x E45)
 
User avatar
Adipasquale
Posts: 827
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:39 pm

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:25 pm

BUFJACK10 wrote:
So far, much of the response activity has been centered around the larger upstate airports. I've always been interested in what sort of terminal facilities are in the smaller airports such as Plattsburg, Ogdensburg, Elmira etc. If anyone has any photos of these airports it would be good to see. Thanks in advance.

I've flown out of ITH a number of times, here's a trip report I wrote this past July with some pictures of the inside of the ITH terminal.
http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1369009
DH8A DH8B CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 D93 M88 319 320 321 333 343 712 732 733 734 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 77L 77W
 
teneriffe77
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:00 am

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:56 pm

As far as SYR's summer schedule goes you forgot AC's 4x a day B1900D flights to YYZ and G4's 2x a week flights each to PIE, FLL and SFB plus MYR (seasonally). Interestingly enough FEDEX now flies an ATR-72 to EWR which is the same place to COEX flew the 42's to for a long time. BTW does any other airport have a large aviation display in the terminal like SYR does. While the SYR one is temporarily closedI know that when it reopens they will still have the same 2 pieces of 727-200 fuselage that had before and it will be enhanced with the help of the local historical association.
 
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United_fan
Posts: 6553
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:10 am

Adipasquale wrote:
BUFJACK10 wrote:
So far, much of the response activity has been centered around the larger upstate airports. I've always been interested in what sort of terminal facilities are in the smaller airports such as Plattsburg, Ogdensburg, Elmira etc. If anyone has any photos of these airports it would be good to see. Thanks in advance.

I've flown out of ITH a number of times, here's a trip report I wrote this past July with some pictures of the inside of the ITH terminal.
http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1369009


Having lived in Upstate Ny my whole life,I've never been to ITH airport.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1077
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Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:25 am

sbaflyer wrote:
Was just checking out the major airlines's summer SYR schedule (based on a weekday in June).
UA
EWR - 4x (1x E70, 3x E45) - their summer schedule has odd timings, 600, 640, 945, 1620 departures from SYR
ORD - 5x (4x E75, 1 CR7) - no mainline like last summer, but increased frequency compared to last summer
IAD - 3x (3x E45)

That is sad. I am glad to see so many E170/175's, but not one daily mainline flight? UA grows and then shrinks, and despite what they say about wanting to grow domestic capacity 5-6%, they don't seem to have their hearts in it. DL and AA both have mainline at SYR. At least there are no CR2's in the schedule.
 
Buffalomatt1027
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:02 am

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:47 am

cosyr wrote:
sbaflyer wrote:
Was just checking out the major airlines's summer SYR schedule (based on a weekday in June).
UA
EWR - 4x (1x E70, 3x E45) - their summer schedule has odd timings, 600, 640, 945, 1620 departures from SYR
ORD - 5x (4x E75, 1 CR7) - no mainline like last summer, but increased frequency compared to last summer
IAD - 3x (3x E45)

That is sad. I am glad to see so many E170/175's, but not one daily mainline flight? UA grows and then shrinks, and despite what they say about wanting to grow domestic capacity 5-6%, they don't seem to have their hearts in it. DL and AA both have mainline at SYR. At least there are no CR2's in the schedule.


Its like that for all the legacy carriers for upstate NY .... they have very limited service out of BUF ROC SYR and ALB and RARELY expand routes. Its pretty sad and makes no sense.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:52 am

B595 wrote:
BUFJACK10 wrote:



In regards to United Express to PBG, the local community has been and is still fighting the service saying they want to keep the current service to Boston on PenAir

http://www.suncommunitynews.com/articles/the-sun/residents-renew-push-for-penair-legislature-remains-firm/
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
BUFJACK10
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Upstate New York Thread - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:49 pm

HA's LAX FA base is currently the only mainland crew base. There were pilot/FA bases in LAX, SFO and SEA starting around 1985 when the L-1011 began operation. I'm not sure when the FAs left SFO and SEA, but it would have been before I was hired there in the late 90s. The pilot bases stayed open until the bankruptcy in 2003 when SFO and LAX were closed. SEA stayed open as a pilot base until 2014. If you want to go back further, in the DC-8 days of charter flying there was a crew base in PHL, and (I think) one at BUF. That was during the late 70s and early 80s. HA also had a big cargo operation that started in Macon GA with a pilot base there in the late 70s flying Lockheed Electras


I found this in another thread and thought the mention of BUF was interesting, I know Hawaiian had charters from IAG on a weekly basis, but never knew they had a base. I know AA had a pilot and Flight attendant base in BUF in the 50's 60's and 70's but didn't know about Hawaiian ( not sure if it's accurate). Can any historian elaborate?
AA AK AL AQ AS B6 CO DL EA FL F9 HP KN NY MO NW PA PE PI RC QX TW UA UR US WN AF AN AO CS IB OA TR VS
A300 A319 A320 BAE146 BAC111 DC8 DC9 DC10 MD80 707 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 L10 F27 F28 F100 ERJ CRJ SE-210 SSC B1900 ATR42 ATR72 DH8 E120 SWM

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