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TN486
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:00 am

Similarly, Erebus was a tragedy that cannot be undone. It will never be forgotten but the families don't "own" Erebus and it is wrong, I think, to give them that authority. So I believe NZ has taken an important step by normalising Antarctica.

mariner[/quote]
Yep, totally agree. Being such an ardent aviation enthusiast, I was very emotional when the Erebus tragedy occurred. I think NZ has taken a courageous and necessary step towards normalising the wonderful area down south. Video is great well done to all.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:24 am

TN486 wrote:
I think NZ has taken a courageous and necessary step towards normalising the wonderful area down south. Video is great well done to all.


This is not about the safety video! LOL.

What we haven't been told much is how extensive NZ's research in Antarctica is, according to Sir Rob Fenwick of the NZ Antarctic Research Institute:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/05-03- ... elebrated/

"Air NZ’s investment in Antarctic research deserves to be celebrated

Air NZ should be congratulated for its investment in climate change research in Antarctica which it has chosen to feature in its in-flight safety video. It sets a much needed example to the international aviation sector where airlines are major contributors to global warming. Many feel airlines should take more responsibility for the impacts of their emissions.

Research funded by Air NZ over several years helps New Zealand Antarctic Research Institute to better understand the likely impacts of warming ice sheets on the southern ocean and how this may effect the ocean’s behaviour around the New Zealand coast. This in turn improves predictability of the risks of sea level rise on our coastal infrastructure.


There's a lot more within the article which is a very interesting read.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:49 am

Gasman, are you personally effected by Erebus?
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:11 am

NZ6 wrote:
Gasman, are you personally effected by Erebus?

The short answer is no - none of my close friends or relatives were victims.

The longer answer is that its tentacles have impacted my life. I worked with many of the key players in Civil Aviation. I'm acquainted with colleagues of the flight crew. I knew Chippindale, and had a chance meeting with Mahon. I've since read every book, and explored every angle on how and why this disaster happened. It remains a strong interest (some would say mild obsession).
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:02 am

Gasman wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Gasman, are you personally effected by Erebus?

The short answer is no - none of my close friends or relatives were victims.

The longer answer is that its tentacles have impacted my life. I worked with many of the key players in Civil Aviation. I'm acquainted with colleagues of the flight crew. I knew Chippindale, and had a chance meeting with Mahon. I've since read every book, and explored every angle on how and why this disaster happened. It remains a strong interest (some would say mild obsession).


Strong opinions for someone not directly involved don't you think? Is that respectful to those families? Both crew and passengers, including employees working that day, little things like people who checked these passengers in or loaded their meals?

I know people directly impacted who are supportive of the video, this is not directed at you as they don't read the forums but they're furious and upset at the outrage by those who aren't effected. Especially at those who are using it as a opportunity to 'get at' Air NZ.

Interesting viewpoint. A little humbling and puts some in their place.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:13 am

NZ6 wrote:
[
Strong opinions for someone not directly involved don't you think?

No.

NZ6 wrote:
Is that respectful to those families?

Yes.

NZ6 wrote:
I know people directly impacted who are supportive of the video, this is not directed at you as they don't read the forums but they're furious and upset at the outrage by those who aren't effected. Especially at those who are using it as a opportunity to 'get at' Air NZ.

You "know people"? And that gives you the right to dictate how I should feel and express myself on this subject? Maybe some people here *do* need humbling.

I'd refer you back to the man who lost a father, quoted from this morning's article in the Herald:

Eric Houghton, who lost his father in the Erebus crash wrote on The Spinoff: "In making this video, I suspect that Air New Zealand is saying it believes it is time to move on. But they don't get to choose when we move on."

I'm with Eric on this.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:23 am

Gasman wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
[
Strong opinions for someone not directly involved don't you think?

No.

I do, I'm not sure how one can form such strong views on something which hasn't directly effected you. Hence I've been quiet on this topic for example.

Gasman wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Is that respectful to those families?

Yes.

I fail to see how, if you were writing this about a car accident which I lost a grandparent in, I would be furious.

My point being none of us know who they feel, we're not in their shoes, we've not walked their journey so let's not pretend.

I am really interested to know why you feel fit to form such strong views on something that's not impacted you directly?

Gasman wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
[
I know people directly impacted who are supportive of the video, this is not directed at you as they don't read the forums but they're furious and upset at the outrage by those who aren't effected. Especially at those who are using it as a opportunity to 'get at' Air NZ.

You "know people"? And that gives you the right to dictate how I should feel and express myself on this subject? Maybe some people here *do* need humbling.

I'd refer you back to the man who lost a father, quoted from this morning's article in the Herald:

Eric Houghton, who lost his father in the Erebus crash wrote on The Spinoff: "In making this video, I suspect that Air New Zealand is saying it believes it is time to move on. But they don't get to choose when we move on."

I'm with Eric on this.


I never said I wanted to dictate how you feel did I!

I respect his views, some feel it is okay and some feel it isn't. Is it evening moving on and if so why? Is Antarctica a real Taboo topic? It's an emotional topic with ranging views, let's just remember to respect those who are effected and leave our opinions aside.

Personally It's not aviation per se, so would like to end the debate on it in respect to the families.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:42 am

NZ6 wrote:
Is Antarctica a real Taboo topic?

No, for the hundredth time. The issue whether it should be a taboo topic as far as as Air New Zealand's marketing is concerned.

None so blind as those who will not see.
 
Deepinsider
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:16 am

Please Ladies and Gentlemen, can we move on from Antarctica?
Pretty well all points of view have been aired here, and it's evident
that there are various immovable points of view, albeit valid to each
writer.
This is the NZ Aviation thread. Let's talk about planes/schedules,
and all that stuff.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:16 am

So let's talk about the fact that having gates 17 and 18 open for business at AKL has made a significant improvement in the number bus ops per day. During a morning hub it has dropped away to 1-2 arrivals only rather than the 3-5 bus op arrival/departures and in the evening peak, it has dropped to 1-2 from 5-8. The internal logistics of the new shops and gates means that from security screening to gate 18 takes the best part of 20min to get there, so it is time that AKL revised their minimum connection times for transits again, as 55min for Intl-Intl and 75min for dom-intl is next to impossible with certain gates and at certain transit peaks (particularly international screening)..
That's something to prepare yourself for if you haven't flown through AKL recently, though I would hope nobody here would routinely book minimum connection transits anyway.
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:08 pm

Gasman wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Is Antarctica a real Taboo topic?

No, for the hundredth time. The issue whether it should be a taboo topic as far as as Air New Zealand's marketing is concerned.

None so blind as those who will not see.


Not sure where the other 98 times are.

So let's leave it up to NZ and the effected people.
 
Mr AirNZ
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:03 pm

NZD less of a lawn ornament and more of an aircraft again. Out for a test flight today, back in revenue service tomorrow.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ6230
 
tom90
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:26 pm

Does anyone know why NZ80 was diverted to CHC today?
Looks like it went in for landing at AKL then went straight onto CHC...
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:48 pm

tom90 wrote:
Does anyone know why NZ80 was diverted to CHC today?
Looks like it went in for landing at AKL then went straight onto CHC...

Fog at AKL http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=12007302

A bunch of other flights also diverted around the same time, most notably NZ90 went to Ohakea.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:19 am

NZ has announced that the SkyCouch is to be further adapted to make traveling more attractive for parents with small children.

"Until now infants have had to sit on their parents or guardians' lap when the seatbelt sign was switched on. Now there will be the option of leaving the child lying flat (and hopefully sleeping) whenever this happens."

See: http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/20 ... airnz.html.

Is the SkyCouch really that successful? On the one hand, NZ maintains it, but on the other, most airlines have not adopted it.

Cheers,

C.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:28 am

planemanofnz wrote:

Is the SkyCouch really that successful?d it.


For couples? No, I don't think so - people with that kind of money to spend on two air tickets just buy premium economy on NZ or business on another airline, for families who want a secure play area and sleep mat, yes it is.

I have had a skycouch 3 times, once as a couple and twice by myself. It is comfy by yourself but very restricted as a pair. I can do without the bedding pack tbh, the money is better spent on two PE seats. More luggage, more food and a nicer seat.
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:36 am

NZ92 HND-AKL is diverting to OHA due to a reported drone in the vicinity of AKL
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:41 am

planemanofnz wrote:
NZ has announced that the SkyCouch is to be further adapted to make traveling more attractive for parents with small children.

"Until now infants have had to sit on their parents or guardians' lap when the seatbelt sign was switched on. Now there will be the option of leaving the child lying flat (and hopefully sleeping) whenever this happens."

See: http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/20 ... airnz.html.

Is the SkyCouch really that successful? On the one hand, NZ maintains it, but on the other, most airlines have not adopted it.

Cheers,

C.


I thought the fact they put it on and keep putting it on the 787 would have answered that question.

Again, it's about appreciating comments on commercial media sites, aviation enthusiasts sites such as A.NET (especially from those who love to pick faults at Air NZ) and understanding that all those comments are just opinions and the only fact is the sales data and actual customer feedback which these writers don't actually have so it's not worth the paper it's written on.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:46 am

aerorobnz wrote:
... for families who want a secure play area and sleep mat, yes it is.

I wonder why other airlines (excluding CI) are yet to offer it then?

Cheers,

C.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:54 am

Skycouch is particularly popular on North America flights. It is growing in popularity on Asia flights but not quite as successfully. Where the airline is having a hard time selling them is on shorter flights (Tasman and Pacific Islands excl HNL).
Overall I'd say they are very happy with it as is basically means they can fill the plane without having to actually carry extra passengers (and the weight that goes with them). In the past those seats would have just remained empty and would lost revenue.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:34 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Is the SkyCouch really that successful? On the one hand, NZ maintains it, but on the other, most airlines have not adopted it.

Cheers,

C.

There are only two situations where it really works:

1. A single adult travelling with one (or two at a push) pre-school children
2. If you're Frodo travelling with Bilbo Baggins.

It's obviously successful enough though, because it's still around - and it'd be a pretty easy plug to pull if it wasn't working.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:52 am

Mr AirNZ wrote:
NZD less of a lawn ornament and more of an aircraft again. Out for a test flight today, back in revenue service tomorrow.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ6230


Great news.

Will RR be providing two new Trent 1000 TEN engines for ZK-NZL, so NZL's Trent 1000s can go on NZE or NZH. I understood Air NZ was quite disappointed that NZL just missed out on getting the TEN as it would otherwise be the only 275 seat 789 without the TEN engine.

PA515
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:00 am

Gasman wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Is the SkyCouch really that successful? On the one hand, NZ maintains it, but on the other, most airlines have not adopted it.

Cheers,

C.

There are only two situations where it really works:

1. A single adult travelling with one (or two at a push) pre-school children
2. If you're Frodo travelling with Bilbo Baggins.

It's obviously successful enough though, because it's still around - and it'd be a pretty easy plug to pull if it wasn't working.


There's either a lot of single adults travelling with one preschooler or this statement is wrong.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:21 am

aerorobnz wrote:
so it is time that AKL revised their minimum connection times for transits again, as 55min for Intl-Intl and 75min for dom-intl is next to impossible with certain gates and at certain transit peaks (particularly international screening)..


Would an extra 5 mins be about right then?

I had been looking at the We Fr Su 789 AKL-ADL 0835/1040, ADL-AKL 1155/1825 being a bit later to improve weekday connections. Presently the 0720 arrivals from CHC, WLG, GIS and TRG connect. An 0845 departure would have permitted 0730 arrivals from BHE, NSN, PMR, NPL, ROT and WRE to also connect, but a 789 aircraft arriving AKL at 1835 would not be able to depart long haul until 2010. Was thinking AKL-ADL 0855/1100, ADL-AKL 1215/1840. However, if 60 mins was the Intl. to Intl. connection minimum, then AKL-ADL would need to be earlier than 0835 or AKL-IAH 1920/1455 would need to be later to connect.

PA515
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:07 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Skycouch is particularly popular ...

Gasman wrote:
It's obviously successful enough ...

In 2014, regarding the SkyCouch, NZ said "We have seen strong interest from other airlines in the product and are exploring licensing agreements with other carriers on non-competing routes" - yet, to this day, CI is the only carrier other than NZ to use the product.

I wonder why NZ has been able to make such a 'success' out of the product, while other carriers haven't taken it up. Further, with the reference to "non-competing routes," I wonder if NZ's TPE launch will affect CI's ability to sell SkyCouch to and from AKL, should it wish.

See: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1401/S ... rlines.htm.

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:45 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Skycouch is particularly popular ...

Gasman wrote:
It's obviously successful enough ...

In 2014, regarding the SkyCouch, NZ said "We have seen strong interest from other airlines in the product and are exploring licensing agreements with other carriers on non-competing routes" - yet, to this day, CI is the only carrier other than NZ to use the product.

I wonder why NZ has been able to make such a 'success' out of the product, while other carriers haven't taken it up. Further, with the reference to "non-competing routes," I wonder if NZ's TPE launch will affect CI's ability to sell SkyCouch to and from AKL, should it wish.

See: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1401/S ... rlines.htm.

Cheers,

C.


I guess it comes down to are other airlines prepared to pay for it? Does NZ want to lower it's asking price and loose a point of difference. My understanding is airlines are/were keen to buy it but just not for the price NZ wants. NZ is not bothered by this and is happy to keep it as a point of difference.

People assume it's only suitable to little people and 1ad + 1 ch.

Here's some insight though. Among this
* 2adults - are buying it for personal space.
* families are buying it and putting the kids in it while the adults are occupying separate standard seats
* People who fly on business by restricted by their cooperate travel policy of flying economy are upgrading into it for comfort.
* 2 adults + 1 kids are using it well.
* Infants - hence this enhancement is a popular request over bassinet seating.

There are so many examples where people are using it, but using it ways not initially pitched by the airline.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:47 am

PA515 wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
so it is time that AKL revised their minimum connection times for transits again, as 55min for Intl-Intl and 75min for dom-intl is next to impossible with certain gates and at certain transit peaks (particularly international screening)..

Would an extra 5 mins be about right then?



I believe minimum domestic to international should be raised to 90min and international to international to 70min. The reason for that is also behind the scenes congestion in baggage makeup and also to allow for the increased baggage interline time from domestic to international that is about to be caused by the redevelopment of the area between the JQ terminal and Intl while the new domestic pier is being constructed. The increased distances for the passengers are only part of the equation.
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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SXI899
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:25 am

Looks like some changes are coming schedule-wise for the NS season.
Daily 787 AKL-CHC rotation (787 v2), and A320 service on WLG-CHC increases to up to 7x daily.
We deliver......
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:37 am

planemanofnz wrote:
In 2014, regarding the SkyCouch, NZ said "We have seen strong interest from other airlines in the product and are exploring licensing agreements with other carriers on non-competing routes" - yet, to this day, CI is the only carrier other than NZ to use the product.

I wonder why NZ has been able to make such a 'success' out of the product, while other carriers haven't taken it up. Further, with the reference to "non-competing routes," I wonder if NZ's TPE launch will affect CI's ability to sell SkyCouch to and from AKL, should it wish.

C.

They are "exploring licensing agreements", which means 1) there will be a cost involved, and 2) there will be conditions imposed. Where NZ only had to come up with it (i.e. a development cost that's already been paid), other airlines would have to weigh up the cost of licensing against what they have to gain. As previously pointed out, they may not be prepared to pay what NZ is asking.

The non-competing part must also make it less appealing - depending on how NZ's licensing agreement sets it out, it may well disallow skycouch products anywhere near AusNZ, which could cause more hassle than it's worth (e.g. having to effectively split the fleet into separate sub-fleets for AusNZ and "SkyCouch routes" respectively).

Being that NZ essentially owns the idea and is selling it as a product on their own planes, there would be no incentive to make it easy for other carriers (especially competitors) to get a similar thing, so I don't think the success of it should be measured by "how many other airlines have paid whatever NZ demands and comply with the conditions stipulated by NZ to get this product".
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:03 am

SXI899 wrote:
Looks like some changes are coming schedule-wise for the NS season.
Daily 787 AKL-CHC rotation (787 v2), and A320 service on WLG-CHC increases to up to 7x daily.

That 787 AKL-CHC rotation seems to only be in place from 03APR18 to 29APR18, and only available in the highest fare bucket (fare class Y) at $469 for seat only.
The extra A320s (which seem to replace some ATR services) are also run during the same period only.

I'm guessing it's for school holidays (14APR-29APR) and university break (ranging from Easter to end of April depending on institution).
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:03 am

planemanofnz wrote:
I wonder why NZ has been able to make such a 'success' out of the product, while other carriers haven't taken it up. Further, with the reference to "non-competing routes," I wonder if NZ's TPE launch will affect CI's ability to sell SkyCouch to and from AKL, should it wish.


I understood SkyCouch was only going on CI's 77W's

PA515
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:25 am

Zkpilot wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
NZ operating a direct South Africa route, CHC-CPT or AKL-JNB

I should think not, for a couple of reasons:

1. I question if the 789 could make it - JNB is hot and high (5000+ feet) - for twins (the 789), their range would therefore likely be limited either by second-segment climb or tyre speed.

2. Geography is also a factor for AKL - CPT, which would fly much further south than any current commercial flight (like MEL - SCL) - it's questionable whether this would be approved.

3. Aside from VFR traffic, there'd be limited other traffic ex-AKL - IMHO, businesses would be put off by South Africa's stagnant economy, while many tourists here view it as not safe.

4. New Zealand and South Africa recently introduced visas for citizens of the other - until the visas are dropped, this will act as a dis-incentive for any tourism component of the flight.

5. South Africa doesn't fit within NZ's well-publicized 'Pacific Rim' strategy, of which there are many closer (and therefore cheaper to fly to) opportunities, yet to be exploited (e.g. CGK).

6. AKL - CPT / JNB do not develop the 'AKL HUB' strategy's two corridors, being Asia - South America, and Australia - North America - the lack of feed would be a big dis-incentive.

That being said, circumstances are always evolving - who knows what could happen in the 2020's! :cloudnine:

Cheers,

C.

Yes stagnant and soon to be going backwards a la Zimbabwe now that parliament has passed a bill basically authorising confiscation of white farmers land (and if they get raped and murdered in the process so be it). South Africa will be heading down the toilet very soon as a result.


Something I've been mentioning for a few years now, white people in South Africa are headed for the chopping block, the country will turn into the typical mess that most African countries find themselves in, they will only have themselves to blame for this outcome.

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News ... 20170806-2
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:59 am

CI A350s have the "family couch". That aircraft is flying here from this month. It will be flying in direct competition with NZ.
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:23 pm

DavidJ08 wrote:
That 787 AKL-CHC rotation seems to only be in place from 03APR18 to 29APR18, and only available in the highest fare bucket (fare class Y) at $469 for seat only.

The 772 is also operating on some days - like 18 April - with fares slightly cheaper than the 789 service.

I assume that these widebody flights will use the domestic terminals and be boarded via stairs?

Cheers,

C.
 
DavidJ08
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:55 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidJ08 wrote:
That 787 AKL-CHC rotation seems to only be in place from 03APR18 to 29APR18, and only available in the highest fare bucket (fare class Y) at $469 for seat only.

The 772 is also operating on some days - like 18 April - with fares slightly cheaper than the 789 service.

I assume that these widebody flights will use the domestic terminals and be boarded via stairs?

And today the 787 prices have come down to $216 each way.

Don't know about Auckland, but here in CHC at least the first set of international gates come out in a corridor that is also open to domestic arrivals. Normally they put up the tape barrier to close off domestic arrivals and direct people to international arrivals, but can certainly be reversed to direct people to domestic arrivals instead.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:59 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
I assume that these widebody flights will use the domestic terminals and be boarded via stairs?

If they are, that's reason enough for taking one of these flights. Boarding a widebody via stairs is one of life's true pleasures!
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:04 am

DavidJ08 wrote:
... today the 787 prices have come down to $216 each way.

Meanwhile, that 772 AKL - CHC flight on 18 April has come down to just NZD 69!

It'd be great if the NZ insiders here could help to answer some of these questions:

- Will these widebody flights use the domestic terminals at AKL / CHC, and boarded via stairs or air-bridges?
- Can you select a premium class seat (Business Premier / Premium Economy) for these flights, on Y fares?

DavidJ08 wrote:
The non-competing part must also make it less appealing ...

The majority of international carriers don't compete with NZ, nor fly to Australia.

Separately, do any NZ insiders know if NZ still pays fees to VS for its BP seat?

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2683
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:18 am

HA says that, if it goes ahead with a 789 purchase, AKL could be one of the destinations to have its 332 service replaced:

''It's way too early to say what the initial fleet deployments will be but eventually that is one of the routes that likely makes some sense. I think that is one we'll certainly be considering.''

See: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=12008115.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2683
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:35 am

QR's AKL service should hopefully get a boost, once BA starts codesharing on the service soon.

See: http://www.adsadvance.co.uk/british-air ... rways.html.

AFAIK, no airline currently codeshares on this route.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2683
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:14 am

JQ is looking at PER - New Zealand services for the future - though, it's unclear whether this would be in addition to, or instead of year-round QF PER - AKL flights:

"Jetstar Airways is evaluating the deployment of its new fleet of A321neoLR aircraft to launch flights from Perth in Western Australia to New Zealand."

See: https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... ist-403763.

I assume that this would only be for PER - AKL and PER - CHC, as both WLG and ZQN may have difficulties facilitating the A321neoLR's (correct me if I'm wrong).

Cheers,

C.
 
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77west
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:12 am

Anyone know why NZ8217 Whangarei-Auckland has been cancelled tomorrow morning? I have an elderly family member that was arranged to be delivered by the ambulance to the airport and picked up again in AKL. I don't know if 4 hours on a bus is going to work for him. NZ just say "technical reasons". This is the worst possible cancellation I have had to deal with..
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:36 am

planemanofnz wrote:
- Can you select a premium class seat (Business Premier / Premium Economy) for these flights, on Y fares?

Can't seem to do premium economy, but if you pay an extra $30 for a "preferred seat" it looks like you can seat yourself in business premier. Perhaps I should give this a go since 18APR is my day off.

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidJ08 wrote:
The non-competing part must also make it less appealing ...

The majority of international carriers don't compete with NZ, nor fly to Australia.

As I say it depends on how NZ sets out the terms, because most of the Asian carriers fly to AusNZ, and the big three in America (plus AC) fly to Aus if not NZL. Heck even BA flies to Sydney. In any case UA, AA, BA, VS are all out as they also do LAX-LHR. Then there's LATAM on NZL-South America and the ME3 on NZL-Europe.

Another issue is the vendor of the seats themselves - does licensing the SkyCouch mean they're stuck with the same vendor NZ uses?
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2683
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:45 am

DavidJ08 wrote:
... if you pay an extra $30 for a "preferred seat" it looks like you can seat yourself in business premier. Perhaps I should give this a go since 18APR is my day off.

That is so cool - NZD 98 for a ride in Business Premier (albeit, minus the service). I wonder if NZ will consider more of these wide-body domestic flights?

planemanofnz wrote:
... it depends on how NZ sets out the terms, because most of the Asian carriers fly to AusNZ, and the big three in America (plus AC) fly to Aus if not NZL. Heck even BA flies to Sydney. In any case UA, AA, BA, VS are all out as they also do LAX-LHR. Then there's LATAM on NZL-South America and the ME3 on NZL-Europe.

Again, the majority of international carriers do not compete with NZ, nor fly to Australia - as a very basic example, think AF, ET, LH, LY, SU, TK and 9W.

Cheers,

C.
 
PA515
Posts: 1229
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:30 am

77west wrote:
Anyone know why NZ8217 Whangarei-Auckland has been cancelled tomorrow morning? I have an elderly family member that was arranged to be delivered by the ambulance to the airport and picked up again in AKL. I don't know if 4 hours on a bus is going to work for him. NZ just say "technical reasons". This is the worst possible cancellation I have had to deal with..


The aircraft is ZK-NED. Arrived from BHE this afternoon, then four sectors cancelled.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-ned

PA515
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2683
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:47 am

Regarding the widebody AKL - CHC flights in April, AFAIK, these dates have the cheapest flight offers:

- 5 April (789) - NZD 59 OW
- 6 April (789) - NZD 59 OW
- 10 April (772) - NZD 69 OW
- 11 April (772) - NZD 69 OW
- 18 April (772) - NZD 69 OW

AFAIK, there are no cheap (i.e. under NZD~120 OW) flights on the CHC - AKL sectors for some reason.

On most days, the 789s are the most expensive - is this driven by the added costs from flying the 789s?

Cheers,

C.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4071
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:04 am

DavidJ08 wrote:

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidJ08 wrote:
The non-competing part must also make it less appealing ...

The majority of international carriers don't compete with NZ, nor fly to Australia.

As I say it depends on how NZ sets out the terms, because most of the Asian carriers fly to AusNZ, and the big three in America (plus AC) fly to Aus if not NZL. Heck even BA flies to Sydney. In any case UA, AA, BA, VS are all out as they also do LAX-LHR. Then there's LATAM on NZL-South America and the ME3 on NZL-Europe.

Another issue is the vendor of the seats themselves - does licensing the SkyCouch mean they're stuck with the same vendor NZ uses?

Seating mounts are standard and IFE can usually be changed. Would only need to be certain rows changed meaning the rest of the cabin can remain with whichever manufacturer they want. Might even be possible for another manufacturer to make it since it’s under licence. I think it is more a licensing fee issue.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:34 am

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidJ08 wrote:
... it depends on how NZ sets out the terms, because most of the Asian carriers fly to AusNZ, and the big three in America (plus AC) fly to Aus if not NZL. Heck even BA flies to Sydney. In any case UA, AA, BA, VS are all out as they also do LAX-LHR. Then there's LATAM on NZL-South America and the ME3 on NZL-Europe.

Again, the majority of international carriers do not compete with NZ, nor fly to Australia - as a very basic example, think AF, ET, LH, LY, SU, TK and 9W.

A majority of European/African carriers don't compete with NZ or fly to AusNZ, sure, but I don't think one could just say "the majority of international carriers" and ignore all of these airlines below that do fly to (Aus)NZ.
CA MU CZ (NH) D7 (GA) HU KE CX JL SQ MH TG (AI) PR VN (OZ) (BR) EK QR (EY) AA (DL) UA (AC) LA BA and of course QF.

Say you were marketing a cabin product, I'd say that having T&Cs restricting use of the product by all of those above-named airlines would be pretty limiting. In the context of our discussion ("If SkyCouch is worthwhile why hasn't other airlines adopted it") I think it's fair to say that at least a part of the reason is any non-compete clause NZ wants to insert into the licensing agreement, since so many airlines fly to Aus/NZ. But as pointed out by others, probably the biggest factor is cost of licensing - SkyCouch allows you to sell extra seats to people, sure, but you can't exactly charge an exorbitant amount*, so it may not be worthwhile for other airlines to actually pay to have this product.

*: in case of NZ they charge a couple slightly less than the price of one person for the extra seat - which makes sense because it covers the opportunity cost of that seat but not the cost of weight/catering/taxes because the seat is not occupied by a person.
 
Kashmon
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:08 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:04 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Regarding the widebody AKL - CHC flights in April, AFAIK, these dates have the cheapest flight offers:

- 5 April (789) - NZD 59 OW
- 6 April (789) - NZD 59 OW
- 10 April (772) - NZD 69 OW
- 11 April (772) - NZD 69 OW
- 18 April (772) - NZD 69 OW

AFAIK, there are no cheap (i.e. under NZD~120 OW) flights on the CHC - AKL sectors for some reason.

On most days, the 789s are the most expensive - is this driven by the added costs from flying the 789s?

Cheers,

C.


so odd that Western airlines don't get lower costs by using larger planes on short haul routes
yet CX/JL/NH/SQ go all out on using wide bodies for short haul flights
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:37 am

Kashmon wrote:
so odd that Western airlines don't get lower costs by using larger planes on short haul routes
yet CX/JL/NH/SQ go all out on using wide bodies for short haul flights

We don't really have the population density here to justify larger planes to be honest. I know Japan domestic has the density for bigger planes (and high-density configurations), but I wonder if CX/SQ just maintain a wide-body fleet and use them for the high-density routes between major cities (which have both the population density and the hubbing effect), and run subsidiaries (Cathay Dragon, SilkAir) with narrowbodies for the smaller cities. I mean even in China and India a lot of the domestic flights are run with narrowbodies.


EDIT: Actually, I should mention that NZ runs AKL-SYD/MEL/BNE with widebodies, and QF is running A330 on AKL-SYD and shortly AKL-MEL. So we have something similar - some regional routes between population centres and airline hubs run with widebodies, and others (CHC/WLG/ZQN to SYD/MEL/BNE) run with narrowbodies.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2683
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:06 pm

A bit of a random question, but why the discrepancy in Y seat width between NZ 772's and NZ 77W's?

SeatGuru puts the 772's width at 17.8", while the 77W's width is 17.1" (both in a 3-4-3 configuration).

See:
- https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_N ... 200_NL.php.
- https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_N ... 300_V2.php.

Cheers

C.
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