United Airline
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How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:52 am

How is UA doing on the LAX-SIN-LAX run?

Any plans to restart HKG-SIN-HKG? It provides more convenience to HKG/SIN local customers as well as east coast customers.
 
Themotionman
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:03 pm

United Airline wrote:
Any plans to restart HKG-SIN-HKG? It provides more convenience to HKG/SIN local customers as well as east coast customers.


With two US-SIN flights there very little chance of HKG-SIN returning. UA would rather route a passenger from NYC to SIN through SFO/LAX than through HKG. It's also not in UA's interest to serve HKG local traffic, we have seen the drawdown of intra-Asia flying from UA and DL becuase they have stronger US based Asia hubs at SFO and SEA respectively.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:06 pm

United Airline wrote:
How is UA doing on the LAX-SIN-LAX run?

Any plans to restart HKG-SIN-HKG? It provides more convenience to HKG/SIN local customers as well as east coast customers.

Sorry for asking (and it is by no means UA bashing), but how does UA serving HKG-SIN provide more convenience to local customers, when arguably 2 of the World's best airlines (CX and SQ) - among others - are serving the route, many times daily?
 
hz747300
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:25 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
United Airline wrote:
How is UA doing on the LAX-SIN-LAX run?

Any plans to restart HKG-SIN-HKG? It provides more convenience to HKG/SIN local customers as well as east coast customers.

Sorry for asking (and it is by no means UA bashing), but how does UA serving HKG-SIN provide more convenience to local customers, when arguably 2 of the World's best airlines (CX and SQ) - among others - are serving the route, many times daily?


Ah, good question and the answer lies in the fares for a 'full service' airline. When UA ran the route, they were very well priced and offered decent service. The flights were well time for the business traveler, being at the extreme end of each day, at least for a Singapore based one given the timings. Also, UA being *A, also more catered towards Singapore based people. The business class fare on UA was comparable to a 100% miles earning fare on CX or SQ. And there are a couple of bottom feeders on this route, like Jet* and Scoot / Tiger. Another question worth asking is will UA restart LAX-HKG for what would seem to be the umpteenth time--if not, they should codeshare on the HKA (HX) one.
Keep on truckin'...
 
Kashmon
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:32 pm

HX is not going to be around for long and CX kicked UA out of SIN, and runs circles around them at SFO and ORD
CX even operates EWR....

CX has 9 daily wide bodies to SIN and SQ has 7 - UA has no space
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:41 pm

Anecdotally, when I flew SIN-SFO a couple weeks ago, it was nearly a full flight. Can't speak to the LAX flight, but my instinct tells me it's probably got a nice load factor. Now, whether or not that means it's making any money, I have no idea, but I bet that will do fine on the route, especially after it's established itself.
Whatever
 
hoya
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:53 pm

Themotionman wrote:
United Airline wrote:
Any plans to restart HKG-SIN-HKG? It provides more convenience to HKG/SIN local customers as well as east coast customers.


With two US-SIN flights there very little chance of HKG-SIN returning. UA would rather route a passenger from NYC to SIN through SFO/LAX than through HKG. It's also not in UA's interest to serve HKG local traffic, we have seen the drawdown of intra-Asia flying from UA and DL becuase they have stronger US based Asia hubs at SFO and SEA respectively.


UA also has NH at NRT that can take passengers from the East Coast via NRT, or even HND, to SIN.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
United Airline
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:14 pm

A pity that HKG-SIN-HKG is gone. It has been around for so many years.

From what I heard they do well in carrying freight.

MalevTU134 wrote:
United Airline wrote:
How is UA doing on the LAX-SIN-LAX run?

Any plans to restart HKG-SIN-HKG? It provides more convenience to HKG/SIN local customers as well as east coast customers.

Sorry for asking (and it is by no means UA bashing), but how does UA serving HKG-SIN provide more convenience to local customers, when arguably 2 of the World's best airlines (CX and SQ) - among others - are serving the route, many times daily?


Sending east coast passengers via HKG is quicker than via LAX/SFO
Last edited by United Airline on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
United Airline
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:14 pm

hoya wrote:
Themotionman wrote:
United Airline wrote:
Any plans to restart HKG-SIN-HKG? It provides more convenience to HKG/SIN local customers as well as east coast customers.


With two US-SIN flights there very little chance of HKG-SIN returning. UA would rather route a passenger from NYC to SIN through SFO/LAX than through HKG. It's also not in UA's interest to serve HKG local traffic, we have seen the drawdown of intra-Asia flying from UA and DL becuase they have stronger US based Asia hubs at SFO and SEA respectively.


UA also has NH at NRT that can take passengers from the East Coast via NRT, or even HND, to SIN.


Oh yes
 
cedarjet
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:42 pm

Shame it’s gone, I did HKG SIN a few times, loved it, timings were great and quite exotic to fly United on a local flight so far from the USA. I miss it when I travel in SE Asia but it’s not coming back.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Freshside3
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:51 am

They've gotten rid of just about all the "local Asia" tag flights out of NRT and HKG, and there are nonstop trips to SIN anyway. So no.
 
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PolarRoute
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:50 am

From what I've heard, they're doing great, only with minor payload restrictions: about 3 rows in Y. Hence, no UA HKG-SIN coming back, if I were to guess
 
SFOHORIZON
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:15 am

I flew LAX-SIN (business) on UA on January 23rd... Flight was 30-40% full. Business class was 3/4s comprised of upgrades. I have looked at the flight a few other times since flying it and have seen higher load factors.. So I don't know. My flight was very empty, that's for sure.
 
United Airline
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:22 am

Is SGN still around? I mean via Japan. I know HKG-SGN-HKG is gone.

They once did HKG-BKK-HKG for a short period of time.

I wonder if they will replace SIN-LAX with SIN-EWR or ORD instead.

I hope HKG-SIN will be back one day
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:36 am

United Airline wrote:
Is SGN still around? I mean via Japan. I know HKG-SGN-HKG is gone.

They once did HKG-BKK-HKG for a short period of time.

I wonder if they will replace SIN-LAX with SIN-EWR or ORD instead.

I hope HKG-SIN will be back one day


What exactly are they going to fly SIN-EWR or SIN-ORD with? Their A359 won't arrived until 2022, and I don't think they are the ULR variant either.
 
United Airline
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:56 am

Oh the B787-9/10 cannot do the job? Oh...
 
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PolarRoute
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:34 pm

United Airline wrote:
Oh the B787-9/10 cannot do the job? Oh...


78X has a range of ~6400nm, or about 7400 miles, which is far from being capable. 789 could do the job, if they really wanted it to, but not in an economical way as it will have severe weight restrictions on payload.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:38 pm

PolarRoute wrote:
United Airline wrote:
Oh the B787-9/10 cannot do the job? Oh...


78X has a range of ~6400nm, or about 7400 miles, which is far from being capable. 789 could do the job, if they really wanted it to, but not in an economical way as it will have severe weight restrictions on payload.


If they have to take payload restriction occasionally on 789 for LAX-SIN, you would need even more payload restriction for two routes that are ~500-600nmi longer. The advertised range for 789 is 7635nmi. LAX-SIN (Great Circle Route) is 7621nmi, so even that is cutting it really close anyway.

Plus, we all know SQ is going to fly those route instead of UA (SQ already stated they'll go back into Singapore-New York Route once their A359ULR get into service), and even then, SQ's ULR fleet would be highly premium (I believe ~170 seats total on the A359?)
 
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PolarRoute
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:36 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
PolarRoute wrote:
United Airline wrote:
Oh the B787-9/10 cannot do the job? Oh...


78X has a range of ~6400nm, or about 7400 miles, which is far from being capable. 789 could do the job, if they really wanted it to, but not in an economical way as it will have severe weight restrictions on payload.


If they have to take payload restriction occasionally on 789 for LAX-SIN, you would need even more payload restriction for two routes that are ~500-600nmi longer. The advertised range for 789 is 7635nmi. LAX-SIN (Great Circle Route) is 7621nmi, so even that is cutting it really close anyway.

Plus, we all know SQ is going to fly those route instead of UA (SQ already stated they'll go back into Singapore-New York Route once their A359ULR get into service), and even then, SQ's ULR fleet would be highly premium (I believe ~170 seats total on the A359?)


As per 789 payload-range chart, it is possible to reach SIN from NYC; which is about 8300nm. But only with 16 tons of payload, and that is... well, miserable I would say.

Image
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:46 pm

Seems really unlikely for Hong Kong to come back. Only scenario I can see and it's s long shot is, UA changes the flight to LAX-HKG-SIN and that seems unlikely.
 
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FA9295
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:13 pm

The whole point of cancelling NRT-SIN and HKG-SIN was because United Airlines gained the adequate equipment to be able to run non-stop routes to Singapore from the United States (SFO and LAX) with the Boeing 787-9, as well as the Airbus A350-900 for Singapore Airlines. Why would they restart their older inner-Asia routes from SIN if they can provide customers with non-stop service to/from Singapore and the United States...?
No, "FA" in my username does not stand for "flight attendant"...
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:47 pm

People here mention that HKG-SIN would be convenient for connecting from the East Coast as it’s shorter than going via LAX or SFO. That’s true however it forgets that UA has a JV with NH who can send EWR/ORD passengers from NRT to SIN thus removing the need for UA to serve SIN from HKG or anywhere else in Asia.
 
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OA412
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:17 pm

HKG-SIN is not coming back. UA has transitioned pretty much all (if not all) their intra-Asia flying to nonstops. They started SFO-SIN (and later LAX-SIN) so they could drop the HKG-SIN leg. In the end it was being flown with a 738. That 738 can make way more money flying multiple domestic turns in the US rather than a single daily HKG-SIN roundtrip.

Further, why would UA move LAX-SIN to ORD when LAX has far more O/D to SIN than does ORD, not to mention UA doesn't have aircraft with enough range to fly that route (or EWR-SIN).
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brian415
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:09 pm

United Airline wrote:
Is SGN still around? I mean via Japan. I know HKG-SGN-HKG is gone. [..]

SGN is gone, but it would be interesting for UA to look at SGN as a tag-on from SIN, since two Dreamliners arrive relatively closely together. However, they would have to look at the return as to whether this is workable.
 
gwrudolph
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:41 am

brian415 wrote:
United Airline wrote:
Is SGN still around? I mean via Japan. I know HKG-SGN-HKG is gone. [..]

SGN is gone, but it would be interesting for UA to look at SGN as a tag-on from SIN, since two Dreamliners arrive relatively closely together. However, they would have to look at the return as to whether this is workable.


I don’t think UA or any of the US3 are interested in tag-ones anymore. I think UA cut all of them in the Pacific, Atlantic, and SAmerica. They burn too much crew (and in some cases fleet) time for minimum gain. Moreover, they sometimes take seats that could otherwise be used for the local O/D traffic without additional meaningful premium
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:43 am

SFOHORIZON wrote:
I flew LAX-SIN (business) on UA on January 23rd... Flight was 30-40% full. Business class was 3/4s comprised of upgrades. I have looked at the flight a few other times since flying it and have seen higher load factors.. So I don't know. My flight was very empty, that's for sure.


That is a Tuesday in between holidays periods IIRC (in the northern winter). I think that flight is doing well. SFO-SIN is one of the if not the toughest upgrades in the UA system. LAX might be a tad easier but not much depending on the day and season.
 
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janders
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:50 am

OA412 wrote:
HKG-SIN is not coming back. UA has transitioned pretty much all (if not all) their intra-Asia flying to nonstops. They started SFO-SIN (and later LAX-SIN) so they could drop the HKG-SIN leg. In the end it was being flown with a 738. That 738 can make way more money flying multiple domestic turns in the US rather than a single daily HKG-SIN roundtrip.
Further, why would UA move LAX-SIN to ORD when LAX has far more O/D to SIN than does ORD, not to mention UA doesn't have aircraft with enough range to fly that route (or EWR-SIN).


HKG-SIN tag was operated by 777 at the end. The 737 only flew route briefly in 2012-2014. While good overall capacity wise, it had far too few premium seats which UA needed for market like SIN.

brian415 wrote:
United Airline wrote:
Is SGN still around? I mean via Japan. I know HKG-SGN-HKG is gone. [..]

SGN is gone, but it would be interesting for UA to look at SGN as a tag-on from SIN, since two Dreamliners arrive relatively closely together. However, they would have to look at the return as to whether this is workable.


If UA wanted a SGN tag again they could do so again via HKG. Makes no sense from SIN which would involve longer journey and back tracking.
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UALMMFlyer
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:14 am

Time has changed. We have to accept the tag on flights are in the past when ultra long haul aircrafts and airlines alliances were not around or not matured.

It is not a UA issue, few airlines around the world still operating tag on flights: SQ IAH-MAN, FRA-JFK and NZ LAX-LHR just to name a few.

On the loads for LAX-SIN and SFO-SIN, loads are great on average. I have flown both routes and they have been pretty full.

LAX-HKG, not coming back anytime soon. I have flown United for over 25 years and had great experience flying LAX-HKG until it was cancelled in the early 2000s and then restarted and cancelled again about a decade ago. For a long time, I had been a proponent of this route, but to be honest, that was my selfish preference, the loads were terrible and UA lost a lot of money on this route. Hard to compete with multiple daily CX flights and UA is not as strong in LA as SFO, ORD and EWR to get feeder traffic onto the LAX-HKG flight.

When I started flying UA, UA had four flights in and out of a much smaller market in TPE: NRT, MNL, BKK and SEL. Using DC-10s on those routes.

Time has indeed changed.....direct flights are here to stay unless alliances and JV models collapse, but aircrafts will continue to fly faster and longer, so even if the business models change, technology will make long haul point to point flights more affordable (cheaper for airlines to operate).
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United Airline
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Re: How is UA doing on LAX-SIN-LAX? Any chance to restart HKG-SIN-HKG?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:30 am

If UA can make SIN-LAX-SIN work I wonder why they can't make HKG-LAX-HKG work. Maybe with the B787-9? But again CX flies multiple number of flights between HKG and LAX per day.

UALMMFlyer wrote:
Time has changed. We have to accept the tag on flights are in the past when ultra long haul aircrafts and airlines alliances were not around or not matured.

It is not a UA issue, few airlines around the world still operating tag on flights: SQ IAH-MAN, FRA-JFK and NZ LAX-LHR just to name a few.


These routes will probably stay as they serve SQ and NZ very well.

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