jetero
Posts: 2554
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:35 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
There should be no animals, lizards, snakes, birds, or reptiles in plane cabins.


I’m with you (this time), DF!
 
jetero
Posts: 2554
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:36 am

ltbewr wrote:
We all know this is going to lead to a lawsuit that UA cannot win and will likely make a quiet settlement with a NDA.


Very Stormy Daniels-ish.
 
F27500
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:39 am

bob75013 wrote:
Want to know what June Lara really said?. OK

"Today, I boarded my first United Airlines flight.

On my way, I saw a Frenchie that looked identical to my own precious Winston. He was with his family - a young girl, no older than 8, her toddler sibling and their mother. He was meant to grow, learn, cry, play with those young children and be their furry friend. He was meant to live a long life filling that family's days with that special joy that only a dog can bring.

I sat behind the family of three and thought myself lucky - who doesn't when they get to sit near a puppy? However, the flight attendants of flight UA1284 felt that the innocent animal was better off crammed inside the overhead container without air and water. They INSISTED that the puppy be locked up for three hours without any kind of airflow. They assured the safety of the family's pet so wearily, the mother agreed.

There was no sound as we landed and opened his kennel. There was no movement as his family called his name. I held her baby as the motherattempted to resuscitate their 10 month old puppy. I cried with them three minutes later as she sobbed over his lifeless body. My heart broke with theirs as I realized he was gone.

The Humane Society of the U.S. says air travel can be risky for pets and especially dangerous for brachycephalic breeds — such as pugs or bulldogs, whose short nasal passages make them vulnerable to oxygen deprivation and heat stroke. This little guy fought hard for his life, filling our flight with his cries until he finally ran out of breath. United Airlines does not care about the safety of their furry travelers. This poor family paid $125 for their pet to be murdered in front of them. There is no excuse for the pain this family is suffering.

Today, I boarded my last United Airlines flight.

R.I.P Papacito "

Warning, dead dog pic in the article

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 1510687550



So ...its "Flight Attendants" ... plural?

The stupidity, bullying and negligence is even more than it originally sounded.

Go ahead ...lets hear it, all you flight crew defenders ... whats the reason they would have knowingly made this woman do this ?
 
flyguy84
Posts: 411
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:41 am

This whole story is strange. Other flight attendants or passengers just sat idly by the entire flight as the dog was barking in the bin and then stopped. Nobody checked on the animal the entire flight? Someone only spoke out once on the ground and took to social media. Something here doesn’t sound right. Those other passengers who didn’t speak up are just as complicit as the flight attendant if this is truly what happened.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1580
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:44 am

F27500 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
F27500 wrote:
There are flight attendants who abuse their position and who DO bully pax. We've seen and read these incidents. They threaten people with being pulled off a flight ... or being "met by the police upon landing" .. we've even seen the vids .. like the case of that inbecile AA cowboy flight attendant last year who manhandled that woman with the stroller holding a baby and who was ready to swing at a male pax who came to her defense. There ARE bad FAs out there .. with a WAY over-inflated view of themselves. Agents too, for that matter. Far too much empowerment has led to the bad apples like these to bully. And they do.

This pax, in an ideal world, really should have asked to speak to someone in charge of tis fool in the cabin .. even asking for the captain to intervene, if necessary. But people are different. Some people can't or won't stand up for themselves out of fear of being thrown off or arrested. Or being overwhelmed (travelling with another child and an infant) .. so they just blindly do as they're told.

And now a puppy is dead as a result.

Moral? If you're told to do something SO totally against your gut and that you know is wrong by some stupid FA .. or anyone else, for that matter .. make a stink ... GET NAMES ... video it on your phone too. and get their faces. It might get u thrown off .. but will you ever have a good case later on ... and you will get justice!

I hope this woman goes personally after this FA in court.




You're just totally rewriting a story to match your narrative, aren't you? Go back and look at the video of that AA FA you're speaking of and point out where he threatened the pax. It was the other way around actually. The FA stupidly told the passenger threatening to knock him out to "go ahead". As the story has been told by other passengers on the plane, the FA grabbed the stroller from the overhead bin and, in doing so, accidentally grazed the shoulder of the woman trying to bring it on, despite having been told she wasn't allowed to. The woman was a drama queen. But, by all means, so you can totally demean an entire group of people, create your own story to match your narrative. It's kind of what we do in this country now anyway.

Oh, and who cares about having a "good case". Demand that the Captain get involved - surely there aren't going to be two people on the same plane (or hopefully at the same airline) that would require anyone to stow their animal in the overhead bin.



Wrong. They were boarding ... so how would her stroller already be in the the overhead? He was trying to prevent her from taking it on board as she stepped onto the plane .. she was still at the boarding door when the cowboy FA flexed his big boy "muscles". . on a woman. And the pax was being a drama queen? So what? A large part of a FA's job IS customer service ... whether or not you (or they) want to admit that ... so he was in the wrong. And AA felt so too because the fool got suspended ... so ......

And as for your second "point" ... you made no sense there ... so IDK what u meant.


My second point is why would you just stand there and video the incident. Refuse to comply. Let the FA get the Captain or the agents involved. As long as you aren't creating a scene or being disrespectful, it's near impossible that anyone would agree that an animal should be put into an overhead bin.

As to my first point, you have no idea what you're talking about. https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/eyewit ... -incident/
The stroller got all the way back to her seat. The FA grabbed the stroller and "almost" hit her babies head with it when he grabbed it and was hauling it down the aisle. There are lots of things wrong with the story, but your narrative of the "inbecile AA cowboy flight attendant last year who manhandled that woman with the stroller holding a baby and who was ready to swing at a male pax who came to her defense" is ridiculously dramatic and inaccurate. And yeah, the FA was wrong - not perhaps for taking the stroller from the woman to the front of the cabin, but for the completely unprofessional way that he handled the situation with the moron cowboy in First Class that decided to jump into a situation he knew little about. Was that you?
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:49 am

cpd wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
I just think you've got your priorities out of order. There is something very very broken in the policies and rules of airlines that allow an animal of any sort to be put in an overhead locker under any circumstances. The fact that some people even thought it up and possibly put it in writing/training , let along being acceptable just makes me shake my head. There must be another solution that is better for the safety of the animal, for the other passengers and doesn't let a staff member put themselves in such a stupid situation. It's totally unthinking. Really stupid.


Please point out the "policy or rule" of the airline that allowed this to happen. Or are you going to add more inaccuracies to the wild blizzard of them in this thread? Good lord, people just make up whatever version of the story they like and run with it.
Last edited by ASFlyer on Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:49 am

cpd wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
I just think you've got your priorities out of order. There is something very very broken in the policies and rules of airlines that allow an animal of any sort to be put in an overhead locker under any circumstances. The fact that some people even thought it up and possibly put it in writing/training , let along being acceptable just makes me shake my head. There must be another solution that is better for the safety of the animal, for the other passengers and doesn't let a staff member put themselves in such a stupid situation. It's totally unthinking. Really stupid.


Please point out the "policy or rule" of the airline that allowed this to happen. Or are you going to add more inaccuracies to the wild blizzard of them in this thread? Good lord, people just make up whatever version of the story they like and run with it.
 
QXAS
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:50 am

AS 850 SEA-HNL
July 3, 2012.
Boeing 737-800.
As I am boarding this flight. A cat and her owner are seated on the other side of the aisle. The cat is placed in the overhead bin. 6 hours and 20 minutes later the cat is removed from the overhead bin with a couple of meows. The cat survived the overhead bin. The container did not fit under the seat so the FA placed the cat in the bin.
Now some differences:
Different animal. The one involved in the UA incicdent is one known to have respiratory issues under stress. The bins are ventilated well enough for the cat to survive, but it’s highly likely the dog could have suffocated.

Different case. The cat was in a rigid plastic container. The dog was in a non-rigid mesh bag. Therefore the dog may have been crushed.

Possibly different bins. The AS flight had traditional shelf bins. Do we know what cabin the UA 737 had? Might the sky interior bins have poorer ventilation?

I’m not defending the FA, in fact no animal should be in the over head bin. Back in 2012 I was to naive to think anything of it. The flight attendant acted poorly in asking for the animal to be in the bin. Here’s the bigger question. Why did the bag not fit under the seat? If this were an E-145 I’d get it but the TSA approved bag should fit under a 737 seat. If this bag truly was approved, the regulations MUST be revisited. This wouldn’t have happened if the bag fit under the seat in front of the owner. Lastly if this particular breed of dog is not approved to travel in the hold, what is it doing on a plane in general? That’s irresponsible planning on the part of the owner. However, this is 100% on the FA. Putting an animal in an overhead bin whether safe or not is cruelty. People don’t react well to dark confined places and neither do animals. In terms of relating this to Dr Dao, that was a united EXPRESS flight operated by REPUBLIC AIRLINES with REPUBLIC AIRLINES pilots and FAs. United was just the name and logo on the side of the plane. In this case, a UA B-737, it falls completely on this FA and by default the pilot in command. There were many factors, but I think we’d all be a little more at peace if the poor puppy was with its owner instead of in the bin, even if it’s fate was the same.
 
hoons90
Topic Author
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:50 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
cpd wrote:
vhtje wrote:
We do not know for a fact that the dog was killed; all we know at this stage is that the poor creature died during the flight after being put into an overhead bin.

Unbelievable, what is the difference? Killed or died is the same thing. Trying to make some distinction between the two just comes across as callous.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Don't they teach basic English in schools anymore?

There is nothing wrong with the existing title. It says simply that a dog was killed on board UA flight (in cabin). That does not point blame at anyone.

Ok, try this for size.
"Man killed onboard Untied Airlines flight"
Today, and elderly man with a history of breathing problems suffered a heart attack during a Untied Airlines flight. Witnesses say the man did not speak any English and may have been confused and stressed by the Flight Attendants instructions. He then quietly fell asleep, but passed away at some point during the flight, which was only noticed when he failed to respond after landing.
Situation sound familiar?
Still happy that killed or died are the same thing? :banghead:


The moderators seem to have changed the title to your liking, so why are you still fixated with that?

If the animal died as a consequence of someone else's actions (note that my original title implied the location in which the incident occurred and not who caused it), then I think that the word "kill" was acceptable. If you, or the moderators don't see it the same way and put different connotations to that word, that's fine by me. But I think we should move on as it's been dealt with.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 7620
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:05 am

cpd wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
cpd wrote:

Well, if you are going to be super picky on writing you might at least spell the name of the airline correctly. The ultimate result is the same: the person, creature, animal or whatever is still dead. It is maddening that this poor creature is dead and all you lot want to do is argue over the wording of a title. Unbelievable.


What do you want us to do, sit here and lament over it? I doubt anyone on here is anything but sad to hear of what happened. Not everyone is going to be an emotional basket case over the story, though, and will be able to carry on a conversation that includes things like thread titles.


I just think you've got your priorities out of order. There is something very very broken in the policies and rules of airlines that allow an animal of any sort to be put in an overhead locker under any circumstances. The fact that some people even thought it up and possibly put it in writing/training , let along being acceptable just makes me shake my head. There must be another solution that is better for the safety of the animal, for the other passengers and doesn't let a staff member put themselves in such a stupid situation. It's totally unthinking. Really stupid.

flyguy84 wrote:
This whole story is strange. Other flight attendants or passengers just sat idly by the entire flight as the dog was barking in the bin and then stopped. Nobody checked on the animal the entire flight? Someone only spoke out once on the ground and took to social media. Something here doesn’t sound right. Those other passengers who didn’t speak up are just as complicit as the flight attendant if this is truly what happened.


I cannot believe that as well. I would have spoken up about it.


I'm on a friggin message board. I have no priorities. I have nothing to do with this story. I don't work for UA. I've never traveled with my dog. I don't absolve the FA of anything. I just agree that some people have the need to spin this into some sort of vendetta against UA or flight crews as a whole, and anyone who doesn't jump on the bandwagon apparently are not welcome.
-Dave
 
grbauc
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:11 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
I am assuming the dog suffocated? Just an outsider point of view, but I looked at the picture at the bottom of the post, it shows the dog carrier next to the stroller rear wheel. That particular stroller rear wheel is 12' inches in height. As seen, the dog carrier is actually just slightly higher then then the rear tire. Therefore , it is safe to assume that the dog carrier is approximately 12' inches in height or greater. Based on current seat configs, the majority of space underneath a seat is 11' inches., while some are a little bigger and some smaller, but none I found are 12 inches or greater. Therefore, it seems plausible that the carrier did not fit underneath the seat and the passenger was told to either put it up in the overhead bin or check it. Again, just speculation on my part.

https://www.reference.com/geography/sta ... 51c2a6c51a



that bag is a soft bag it could easily squish down a few inches.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:16 am

grbauc wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
I am assuming the dog suffocated? Just an outsider point of view, but I looked at the picture at the bottom of the post, it shows the dog carrier next to the stroller rear wheel. That particular stroller rear wheel is 12' inches in height. As seen, the dog carrier is actually just slightly higher then then the rear tire. Therefore , it is safe to assume that the dog carrier is approximately 12' inches in height or greater. Based on current seat configs, the majority of space underneath a seat is 11' inches., while some are a little bigger and some smaller, but none I found are 12 inches or greater. Therefore, it seems plausible that the carrier did not fit underneath the seat and the passenger was told to either put it up in the overhead bin or check it. Again, just speculation on my part.

https://www.reference.com/geography/sta ... 51c2a6c51a



that bag is a soft bag it could easily squish down a few inches.



With a dog in it. Then crammed under a seat. Would this dog have fared much better squished under a seat for four hours? I guess we'll never know.
-Dave
 
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cpd
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:22 am

ASFlyer wrote:
cpd wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
I just think you've got your priorities out of order. There is something very very broken in the policies and rules of airlines that allow an animal of any sort to be put in an overhead locker under any circumstances. The fact that some people even thought it up and possibly put it in writing/training , let along being acceptable just makes me shake my head. There must be another solution that is better for the safety of the animal, for the other passengers and doesn't let a staff member put themselves in such a stupid situation. It's totally unthinking. Really stupid.


Please point out the "policy or rule" of the airline that allowed this to happen. Or are you going to add more inaccuracies to the wild blizzard of them in this thread? Good lord, people just make up whatever version of the story they like and run with it.


If there wasn't a policy or rule, then how did it get to the point of someone telling someone to put an animal in an overhead locker? I'm guessing you wouldn't order someone to do that, would you. The animal and the owner should really have been taken off the flight in the interests of the well being of the dog. If the owner of the dog was really caring about the animal, they would understand.

QXAS wrote:
Here’s the bigger question. Why did the bag not fit under the seat? If this were an E-145 I’d get it but the TSA approved bag should fit under a 737 seat. If this bag truly was approved, the regulations MUST be revisited


That's what I'm wondering. The cat story leaves me equally shaking my head. And you've said it well, it is cruelty, simple as that. You'd never put a dog in the trunk of a car, so it should never happen on a plane in a space that is even more confined. Doesn't matter who the airline is, be it UA, or any of its rivals, it's just a bad thing.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:32 am

ASFlyer wrote:
My second point is why would you just stand there and video the incident. Refuse to comply. Let the FA get the Captain or the agents involved. As long as you aren't creating a scene or being disrespectful, it's near impossible that anyone would agree that an animal should be put into an overhead bin.

?


Complaining on a plane to the Captain will get you thrown off the plane. This is what United has turned travel into. Most people are afraid to speak up, especially to the pilot. Hpw many times have we heard the pilot say to remove the passenger for safety reasons. Its time United stopped bullying its passengers into being scared to report something on the plane. There has to be a nuetral party that can get involved when a passenger feels the need to voice an onboard complaint. Back in the day when I actually liked United, I was on a flight, still at the gate, and the person behind me kept kicking my seat and in doing so, I turned around and made the mistake of telling the person behind me, very loudly, to stop kicking my seat. The UA flight attendant comes directly to me and threatens to remove me from the plane without even trying to determine what was going on.. This in a nutshell is the United culture.

United...One step forward, two steps back,,,,
Last edited by jumbojet on Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:33 am

I don't feel compelled to comment on who was right or wrong in this situation. I'll just say this:

We should stop allowing pets in the main cabin. We gave it a try. It has been terrible. End the policy.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
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kpotennis
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:40 am

I fly United more than 100,000 miles a year going on 25 years now, plus growing up flying on passes as young boy because my father was a pilot with United for 40 some odd years and I have never seen anything like the things I see and hear now. It doesnt matter which airline it is just substitute the name. I'm sorry this happened to that poor dog and it's owner, but I have to say what perosn in there right mind in the same situation would follow that directive from the FA. I wouldn't!!!! If that was me no matter how bad I needed to be New York, I'd walk off the plane and talk with a gate agent, customer service agent, supervisor, someone to get me accomadated on the next flight and to report the FA. That's not United's policy for sure, that was a frustrated FA making a bad dirrective to a passenger. Hate to say it, but if that's what she is telling people in that situation I don't want to be with that FA when things get really bad on a plane. That FA needs to be fired because you don't need training to figure that out and I'm sure United will take responsibility for this sad mishap.
Last edited by kpotennis on Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
hoons90
Topic Author
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:40 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
And knowing the idiots here on a.net


Do you really believe these ad-hominem attacks really add anything to your credibility and help you get taken seriously? If you have some class, why not show it?

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
What puzzles me is how it has taken so many posts for us to arrive at this understanding. Better late than never I 'spose.


I said this pretty early in the discussion. I think it's actually on the first page of this thread?
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
vanguard737
Posts: 542
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:48 am

F27500 wrote:
This flight attendant "safety professional" is an absolute IDIOT. It was IAH-LGA, so they were on a Boeing (not a small RJ) and that bag in the pic is a normal sized pet duffel. Why would anyone even think the overhead bin was an appropriate place to put a dog carrier? Much less a FA?!

I'm glad to see the sympathy in UA's response to this, but this fool of a power-tripped FA needs to be taken outta the aisle and sent packing.

What a horrible story.


Perhaps a more fitting user name for you would be "judge_jury_executioner"

Here's a crazy notion...you weren't there, so you have no place calling this FA an "absolute idiot" and assuming (s)he was on a "power trip". As with most things, there is more to the story than just what is initially reported. There is no logical reason any flight attendant would randomly tell a passenger to stick there pet in an overhead bin - especially when doing such a thing is not only beyond the realm of logical, but also a direct violation of company policy and probably FAA regulations.

And let's just assume for one second that this really did happen exactly as the one passenger claims. Tell me why then the owner apparently never once bothered to check on their dog that they were so worried about on a THREE HOUR flight? And she only discovered it was dead after landing? It makes no sense.

There is obviously more to this story than any of us know. So hold off on your name calling and demanding the FA's head on a plate.
319 320 717 722 732 733 735 737 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:57 am

jumbojet wrote:

Complaining on a plane to the Captain will get you thrown off the plane. This is what United has turned travel into. Most people are afraid to speak up, especially to the pilot. Hpw many times have we heard the pilot say to remove the passenger for safety reasons. Its time United stopped bullying its passengers into being scared to report something on the plane.

United...One step forward, two steps back,,,,


Or afraid they will get Dr David Dao treatement if they speak up, we have seen how united treats its customers
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:59 am

jumbojet wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
My second point is why would you just stand there and video the incident. Refuse to comply. Let the FA get the Captain or the agents involved. As long as you aren't creating a scene or being disrespectful, it's near impossible that anyone would agree that an animal should be put into an overhead bin.

?


Complaining on a plane to the Captain will get you thrown off the plane. This is what United has turned travel into. Most people are afraid to speak up, especially to the pilot. Hpw many times have we heard the pilot say to remove the passenger for safety reasons. Its time United stopped bullying its passengers into being scared to report something on the plane. There has to be a nuetral party that can get involved when a passenger feels the need to voice an onboard complaint. Back in the day when I actually liked United, I was on a flight, still at the gate, and the person behind me kept kicking my seat and in doing so, I turned around and made the mistake of telling the person behind me, very loudly, to stop kicking my seat. The UA flight attendant comes directly to me and threatens to remove me from the plane without even trying to determine what was going on.. This in a nutshell is the United culture.

United...One step forward, two steps back,,,,


No, no it won't get you thrown off. If you're respectful from the start and not defiant and can calmly and rationally explain your position, you are not going to be thrown off. It may not always go the way you want it to but you won't be thrown off unless there is good reason. Especially so if it concerns putting your dog in an overhead bin. This isn't policy or procedure - I highly doubt anyone would have backed the FA in this instance. Your experience, by your own admission, started with you yelling at someone. I wasn't on the flight, but I wonder if there were another way to handle that situation. All the FA knew was that you were being loud and yelling at someone else on the plane - that kind of behavior doesn't often get better in the air in such close quarters. You may never have taken it any further, but others have and do. FA's have a short period in which to make a decision that meets FAA guidelines and is in the best interests of the majority of passengers on the plane. Looking at it from the FA's perspective, they probably thought they were making the best decision for all onboard as you were the one that was yelling.
 
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United787
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:59 am

cpd wrote:
If the bag won't fit underneath the seat, the passenger, luggage and animal should be taken off the plane and some alternative arrangements found with the sincerest of apologies.


Bingo.

I think there need to be some serious tightening and clarification of the rules to prevent this sort of thing from happening again. I also think the animals should NOT be taken out of their carrier during the flight, it is inconsiderate to other pax. They can put the carrier onto their lap during cruise to check on their well being and care for them but must remain in their carriers at all times.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:05 am

cpd wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
cpd wrote:


Please point out the "policy or rule" of the airline that allowed this to happen. Or are you going to add more inaccuracies to the wild blizzard of them in this thread? Good lord, people just make up whatever version of the story they like and run with it.


If there wasn't a policy or rule, then how did it get to the point of someone telling someone to put an animal in an overhead locker? I'm guessing you wouldn't order someone to do that, would you. The animal and the owner should really have been taken off the flight in the interests of the well being of the dog. If the owner of the dog was really caring about the animal, they would understand.


Actually, I have asked someone to put their dog in an overhead bin. In my defense, I looked at their feet and saw the top of a black duffel bag - no mesh anywhere. It just looked like a carry on bag. I told them I could put it overhead if it wouldn't fit underneath the seat, as it appeared too large to fit. They told me it was their dog and immediately we worked on another accommodation. I would never knowingly suggest someone stow an animal in an overhead bin. Still, just because the UA FA told them to stow their dog above doesn't mean there's a policy at United to do so. I don't know all the circumstances of this incident but, based on what I've read, if the FA knowingly told them to do so then they clearly were making a stupid decision all on their own.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:08 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

Complaining on a plane to the Captain will get you thrown off the plane. This is what United has turned travel into. Most people are afraid to speak up, especially to the pilot. Hpw many times have we heard the pilot say to remove the passenger for safety reasons. Its time United stopped bullying its passengers into being scared to report something on the plane.

United...One step forward, two steps back,,,,


Or afraid they will get Dr David Dao treatement if they speak up, we have seen how united treats its customers


except it wasn't UA that did that - it was the Chicago Police. They were asked to assist with a passenger that refused to deplane, what they did on the plane was their own decision. UA never told anyone to drag someone off by their feet. It could have happened on a DL plane too, it just happened to be a UA plane.
 
ual763
Posts: 440
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:15 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

Complaining on a plane to the Captain will get you thrown off the plane. This is what United has turned travel into. Most people are afraid to speak up, especially to the pilot. Hpw many times have we heard the pilot say to remove the passenger for safety reasons. Its time United stopped bullying its passengers into being scared to report something on the plane.

United...One step forward, two steps back,,,,


Or afraid they will get Dr David Dao treatement if they speak up, we have seen how united treats its customers


Will you 2 stop it already with your petty attacks on an entire company full of great people. I've seen United employees take a plane full of terminally ill children to the "North Pole". I've seen United pilots invite little kids up to the cockpit before boarding to help perform pre-flight checks. I've also seen United employees visit dying kids in the hospital. And finally, I and many others have had many encounters with employees who have literally gone out of their way to help me when I couldn't fix a problem myself. Sure, every company has a few bad eggs., but the vast majority of them are genuinely great people, as much as you hate to admit it. I could name quite a few "incidents", to put it nicely, that Delta has had in recent memory. But, we're better than that. "United" hasn't "turned" travel into anything. United has taken "full responsibility", and is trying to do the right thing here.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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Keith2004
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:21 am

"According to a US Department of Transportation report issued in February, 24 animals died in the care of US carriers last year. Three-quarters of those, 18, died while being handled by United. Of 15 reported injuries, 13 occurred with United..."

"...Of the problems documented in the DOT report, which include death, injury and loss of animals, United had the highest rate of incidents: For every 10,000 animals transported, United had 2.24 incidents.

The airline was also the largest transporter of animals, carrying 138,178 animals in 2017. Alaska Airlines, which transported the next-highest number of animals (114,974), had an incident rate of 0.26, one-tenth the rate of United."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/13/us/united-airlines-dog-dies-trnd/index.html

Mayb people traveling with pets should not fly United :shock:

Stats like this coming up because of this story won't help. But like the Dao sandal, this probably won't hurt their bottom line...just further tarnish their reputation.
Then again People in this country do love their dogs....this story may have some legs. I wonder if flight attendant will be fired. (I understand all facts ate not yet known)
 
ac7e7
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:27 am

Horrible to hear the dog passed away.

Having said that, I think animals should not be in the cabin. We as a society are getting a little too obsessed with our animals - dressing them up, speaking to them like babies, every animal is a “support animal” etc.

I like animals, but frankly, unless it is a certified support animal, they should all be below deck. Not all of us love your dog as much as you do.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:49 am

I'm a 57 year old man. Been on here a long time. I confess...I am sitting here with tears running down my face, crying and crying and seething with rage.

At what point do the airlines tell their flight attendants to STOP and LISTEN and DON'T BE A KNOW IT ALL.

Because THIS is the result of their tolerance of those attendants who are high-handed, imperious, and unwilling to listen. Their agenda is NOT passenger service, it's passenger discipline. This attendant deserves to be arrested for animal cruelty.

Okay, I have to stop. I will say a prayer for that poor little dog tonight.
 
EvanWSFO
Posts: 190
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:53 am

jumbojet wrote:
I will give Oscar props for at least taking ownership of this tragedy. I half expected him to say something like, "great job team, way to keep that dog out of the passengers way". It does seem that UA is learning from its past misgivings.

“This was a tragic accident that should never have occurred, as pets should never be placed in the overhead bin,” the company said in a statement. “We assume full responsibility for this tragedy and express our deepest condolences to the family and are committed to supporting them.”


I don't know how UA can make this right though. I would imagine a lawsuit will follow very shortly followed by a 7 figure settlement.


Lawsuit, probably. 7 figure settlement? No way. Dogs are considered personal property. They do not have the same rights as humans in the eyes of the law. It was a massive FUBAR, and I as a dog lover am amazed at the utter stupidity this thread has taken. Still, the owner won't be getting anywhere near 7 figures. 5, maybe.
 
hoons90
Topic Author
Posts: 3365
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:54 am

wjcandee wrote:
I'm a 57 year old man. Been on here a long time. I confess...I am sitting here with tears running down my face, crying and crying and seething with rage.

At what point do the airlines tell their flight attendants to STOP and LISTEN and DON'T BE A KNOW IT ALL.

Because THIS is the result of their tolerance of those attendants who are high-handed, imperious, and unwilling to listen. Their agenda is NOT passenger service, it's passenger discipline. This attendant deserves to be arrested for animal cruelty.

Okay, I have to stop. I will say a prayer for that poor little dog tonight.


I'm with you. My heart sank when I read that the passenger broke down in the aisle over the loss of her loved one.

I would have reacted the same way if this occurred on a different airline. I grew up with dogs and I cannot imagine a life without them by my side. I hugged my dog as soon as I heard about this story.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
sincx
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:58 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
I will give Oscar props for at least taking ownership of this tragedy. I half expected him to say something like, "great job team, way to keep that dog out of the passengers way". It does seem that UA is learning from its past misgivings.

“This was a tragic accident that should never have occurred, as pets should never be placed in the overhead bin,” the company said in a statement. “We assume full responsibility for this tragedy and express our deepest condolences to the family and are committed to supporting them.”


I don't know how UA can make this right though. I would imagine a lawsuit will follow very shortly followed by a 7 figure settlement.


Lawsuit, probably. 7 figure settlement? No way. Dogs are considered personal property. They do not have the same rights as humans in the eyes of the law. It was a massive FUBAR, and I as a dog lover am amazed at the utter stupidity this thread has taken. Still, the owner won't be getting anywhere near 7 figures. 5, maybe.
Trials are public. Can you imagine the media circus at the "United killed a dog" trial? Especially if it's in a state court that allows cameras?

If I was UA I would pay at least high 6 figures to settle this without a trial, than to pay a 5-figure judgment after a 3 day trial that every media outlet will breathlessly cover.
 
Max Q
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:07 am

I am a huge dog lover, they are simply the finest creatures on the planet, better than most humans


This is beyond tragic, when I think what that poor dog went through for NO reason other than a FA’s ignorance


I can’t blame the owner, maybe she thought it was a new policy, that the overheads had been ‘modified’ in some way to permit pet carriage


But if it had been me, I simply would not have complied and demanded to see the Captain, gate agent, airport authorities, whatever until I ensured my dog was placed under the seat, as policy dictates, and if they insisted that wasn’t possible me and my dog are getting off the aircraft


What on earth was this flight attendant (and the rest of them) thinking?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
Max Q
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:13 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
grbauc wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
I am assuming the dog suffocated? Just an outsider point of view, but I looked at the picture at the bottom of the post, it shows the dog carrier next to the stroller rear wheel. That particular stroller rear wheel is 12' inches in height. As seen, the dog carrier is actually just slightly higher then then the rear tire. Therefore , it is safe to assume that the dog carrier is approximately 12' inches in height or greater. Based on current seat configs, the majority of space underneath a seat is 11' inches., while some are a little bigger and some smaller, but none I found are 12 inches or greater. Therefore, it seems plausible that the carrier did not fit underneath the seat and the passenger was told to either put it up in the overhead bin or check it. Again, just speculation on my part.

https://www.reference.com/geography/sta ... 51c2a6c51a



that bag is a soft bag it could easily squish down a few inches.



With a dog in it. Then crammed under a seat. Would this dog have fared much better squished under a seat for four hours? I guess we'll never know.




Of course it would, there’s vastly more
ventilation available under the seat, the dog can see the light, people and most of
all it’s owner has easy access to her pet

She can reach into the bag and pet the dog, comforting it and calming it down, give it water/ treats etc without taking it out
the dog would have been fine


That dog went through hell, truly heart breaking
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 85
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:14 am

ual763 wrote:
Let's all wait to see the other side of this story. So far, not even the victim has said anything. The only one baiting the media, and trying to spread it, is someone who has a history of baiting news outlets in order for attention. Just look through her twitter. Nobody has any facts yet. The only fact is that the dog died. Has their been an autopsy to confirm that the dog died of asphyxiation? We don't know.


Gotta love social media... :roll:
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
rbavfan
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:14 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
I am assuming the dog suffocated? Just an outsider point of view, but I looked at the picture at the bottom of the post, it shows the dog carrier next to the stroller rear wheel. That particular stroller rear wheel is 12' inches in height. As seen, the dog carrier is actually just slightly higher then then the rear tire. Therefore , it is safe to assume that the dog carrier is approximately 12' inches in height or greater. Based on current seat configs, the majority of space underneath a seat is 11' inches., while some are a little bigger and some smaller, but none I found are 12 inches or greater. Therefore, it seems plausible that the carrier did not fit underneath the seat and the passenger was told to either put it up in the overhead bin or check it. Again, just speculation on my part.

https://www.reference.com/geography/sta ... 51c2a6c51a


TSA approved carriers for cabins would have to fit under the seat. Otherwise they are not TSA approved for on board as TSA knows airlines requires the pet carrier to fit under the seat. However whatever the size the FA is not supposed to allow pets in the overhead bins.
 
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EK413
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:22 am

crownvic wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
There should be no animals, lizards, snakes, birds, or reptiles in plane cabins.


I TOTALLY AGREE...


Does this apply to disabled passengers travelling with a guide dog too?!? :roll:

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
ckfred
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:24 am

I feel horrible for the family. But, what has me curious is the fact that the dog was a French Bulldog. My in-laws have had two Frenchies over the last 20 years. They have been told by both breeders and vets that dogs with short snouts or muzzles, such as French Bulldogs, English Bulldogs, Pugs, and Boston Terriers, should not travel in an airplane that has a pressurized cabin or cargo bay. Because they have more respiratory problems than breeds like Dachshunds, German Shepherds, or Greyhounds, pressurized cabins present difficulties for their breathing.

My in-laws used to live in Atlanta. So, if they wanted to travel to Florida or Chicago, taking the dog meant driving.

Surprisingly, flying in an airplane that isn't pressurized, such as a Cessna 172, is fine for a French Bulldog.
 
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Classa64
Posts: 249
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:26 am

To bad this had to happen really. I suspect the dog overheated being in a confined space and the type of dog it is but we will find out eventually I hope. Some people just don't understand the needs of certain types of animals, I would not expect an FA to know but would want them to listen to me since I would. I had a family member suggest I leave my dog in the car while we were out once, needless to say I cant believe I had to explain that one when it was 28C outside.....Some people just don't know.
Its up to UA now to make the call whether pets are allowed in cabin( other than service animals), till then I hope the lesson is learned and either the FA or FA's in question get educated or maybe re-posted or even let go. I personally would be worried about challenging the FA in this day and age but would most likely leave the plane before putting the dog in the overhead bin, I would however never travel with my dog on a plane so that's never going to happen either way.

C.
"Freedom is the miles i'm rolling on"
 
AAIL86
Posts: 439
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:49 am

As a 5 year UA premier gold member (mostly for work); but also travels with our dog(paid pet in cabin) 2-3 times domesticly - I realize that this is a bizarre case and the UA employee will be punished for their serious error. The customer paid for this privilege and the only concern of the F/A should have been to accommodate the customer. If the container didn’t fit, the passenger should have been denied boarding.

It is also irrelevant that some of you think dogs shouldn’t be allowed(I do agree with the points on many therapy animals, yes, fair enough,there’s lot of people scamming those). But UA are more then happy then to collect my $125 per direction to grant the right to carry him on. Having accepted my money, it’s United’s job to get myself and my dog to our destination. My dog is quiet, fits under the seat and never leaves the bag. As long as this person was following those rules, it should have the same for them. So common sense that this F/A gets a punishment appropriate to their error.
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason - Benjamim Franklin
 
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PA110
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:54 am

LHUSA wrote:
And yet in another blog online, the pet owner states she herself did not question the FA's request. Let's just wait for some more facts to come out.


Your point is moot. United has already officially accepted blame:
""This was a tragic accident that should never have occurred, as pets should never be placed in the overhead bin. We assume full responsibility for this tragedy and express our deepest condolences to the family and are committed to supporting them. We are thoroughly investigating what occurred to prevent this from ever happening again."
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
blueheronNC
Posts: 94
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:11 am

nine4nine wrote:
As much as I love animals they belong at home not on planes. If you have a genuine health issue and have a certified service dog that’s one thing. But household pets and “therapy animals” do not belong on planes period. This new generation of entitled wimps who have to have therapy pets is insane. People have travelled by air just fine for decades without them, if it’s that severe then ask for Dr for Xanax. If you can’t live without your pet for a few days then either stay home, take Greyhound, or use Amtrak.


I'm moving across the country (West to East Coast) one a one-way flight next week with two cats. I can either do a 5-hour nonstop or drive the cats for 42 hours broken up over 5-6 days in a confined space in a car. You still think I shouldn't fly them?
 
739er
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:13 am

thebatman wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Right because you're an only you are in charge of maintaining and operating the aircraft. i think you just proved his point. :banghead:


That makes no sense. Keep bashing your head against that wall, maybe it will help.


I was thinking the same thing Batman...
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:34 am

EK413 wrote:
crownvic wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
There should be no animals, lizards, snakes, birds, or reptiles in plane cabins.


I TOTALLY AGREE...


Does this apply to disabled passengers traveling with a guide dog too?!? :roll:

EK413


No, that's Federally mandated. Guide dogs are usually big enough to take up another seat. i assume the customer has to pay that extra seat accommodation??
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
Max Q
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:46 am

blueheronNC wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
As much as I love animals they belong at home not on planes. If you have a genuine health issue and have a certified service dog that’s one thing. But household pets and “therapy animals” do not belong on planes period. This new generation of entitled wimps who have to have therapy pets is insane. People have travelled by air just fine for decades without them, if it’s that severe then ask for Dr for Xanax. If you can’t live without your pet for a few days then either stay home, take Greyhound, or use Amtrak.


I'm moving across the country (West to East Coast) one a one-way flight next week with two cats. I can either do a 5-hour nonstop or drive the cats for 42 hours broken up over 5-6 days in a confined space in a car. You still think I shouldn't fly them?




I wouldn’t, their well being would be worth
the drive !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
eastalt
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:53 am

There is a lot of information missing here. I refuse to believe the Flight Attendant knowingly allowed this passenger to put a dog in the overhead bin. Further, they did it and the rest of the cabin passengers sat back and allowed it. There is no way this happened the way its being reported. People wake up! If I was on this plane, I would have ensured that the communication between all parties were clear and the crew was fully aware of the situation. Further, the people surrounding her are complicit in the death of this animal. There was at least three more crew members who could have intervened. I blame the passengers, as well, they turned their backs on the situation. Where was the adult in the room?
 
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KLM11
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:59 am

Watching the demise of UA has been painful.

Absolutely inexcusable, though provided what has been said and documented is corroborated by management and law enforcement.

UA was once a reputable brand, I always thought the merger with CO, another excellent carrier, could turn out for the better. Not a fan of less competition but two good brands back in the day nonetheless. Now it's frequently cited as one of the worst companies in the USA for a myriad of reasons. I'll never forget the good ole' UA, and CO for that matter.

RIP little dog.

KLM11
BENAIRE - The Refined Airline
 
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Moose135
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:00 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
No, that's Federally mandated. Guide dogs are usually big enough to take up another seat. i assume the customer has to pay that extra seat accommodation??

There is no fee to fly with trained service animals (guide dogs, etc.) and you are expected to stay within your seat area.

From United's web page on traveling with service animals:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/conten ... imals.aspx

Trained service animals are accepted in cabin for qualified individuals with a disability. A service animal should sit in the floor space in front of the customer's assigned seat but cannot protrude into the aisles. Customers may use an approved in-cabin kennel for smaller animals provided its use meets stowage requirements.


From Delta:
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... imals.html

On a Delta flight, service and support animals are expected to be seated in the floor space below a passenger’s seat, or seated in a passenger’s lap. Service and support animals and their associated items travel for free. The size of the animal must not exceed the “footprint” of the passenger’s seat.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
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DIRECTFLT
Posts: 1259
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Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:02 am

Moose135 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
No, that's Federally mandated. Guide dogs are usually big enough to take up another seat. i assume the customer has to pay that extra seat accommodation??

No, there is no fee to fly with trained service animals (guide dogs, etc.)

From United's web page on traveling with service animals:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/conten ... imals.aspx

Trained service animals are accepted in cabin for qualified individuals with a disability. A service animal should sit in the floor space in front of the customer's assigned seat but cannot protrude into the aisles. Customers may use an approved in-cabin kennel for smaller animals provided its use meets stowage requirements.


From Delta:
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... imals.html

On a Delta flight, service and support animals are expected to be seated in the floor space below a passenger’s seat, or seated in a passenger’s lap. Service and support animals and their associated items travel for free. The size of the animal must not exceed the “footprint” of the passenger’s seat.


Okay... Got it!
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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SJL
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Re: Dog Dies in Overhead Bin on United Airlines Flight

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:09 am

I had a look at some of the posts on United’s Facebook page - there is absolute outrage over this. I can understand the pain of the dog’s owners but I wonder how many of the people complaining eat meat or in some other contribute to the suffering of animals? I’m not promoting veganism or saying what United did was right but the furore seems extreme. United must transport tens of thousands of pets every year without incident.
 
hoons90
Topic Author
Posts: 3365
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:20 am

vanguard737 wrote:
Perhaps a more fitting user name for you would be "judge_jury_executioner"

There is no logical reason any flight attendant would randomly tell a passenger to stick there pet in an overhead bin - especially when doing such a thing is not only beyond the realm of logical, but also a direct violation of company policy and probably FAA regulations.


And yet, here we are...

vanguard737 wrote:
And let's just assume for one second that this really did happen exactly as the one passenger claims. Tell me why then the owner apparently never once bothered to check on their dog that they were so worried about on a THREE HOUR flight? And she only discovered it was dead after landing? It makes no sense.


Maybe because the passenger trusted the flight attendant's judgment, however bad it turned out to be? They are the supposed experts after all, that all passengers must blindly submit to, right? Or so we are conditioned to believe.
Maybe the passenger was afraid that the flight attendant would rebuke her for removing the pet (even temporarily) from the spot that the flight attendant designated for the pet?
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
DarthLobster
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:40 am

Re: Dog killed onboard United Airlines flight (in cabin)

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:21 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
There should be no animals, lizards, snakes, birds, or reptiles in plane cabins.


Are lizards, snakes, birds, and reptiles not animals?

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