funny
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B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:33 am

Did you guys hear about the China Southern Airlines Boeing 777, which operated a flight from NYC-Beijing overflying the USA, Canada, North Pole!!, Russia Far East and Mongolia, a long time ago. This was actually a test to evaluate how this new route cuts down on fuel consumption and landing fees.

Is this now an official route?

Jason
 
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:51 am


No airline currently serves the route nonstop.
You can go from DTW to PEK nonstop, though.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North

Mon Mar 04, 2002 1:12 am

I flew on the NW flight you mention - DTW-PEK over the pole, Siberia, Mongolia. The return trip was over the Bering Sea and Alaska. Really fascinating - I was watching and recording the lat-long readouts on the screen in between movies. (There were no PTV's in coach, where I sat.)

Here is the plot of the DTW-PEK flight....
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=dtw-70n84w-89n112w-89n132w-89n151e-88n132e-54n104e-50n107e-47n109e-44n112e-41n114e-pek%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
papatango
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Mon Mar 04, 2002 2:23 am

it was a delta 777
 
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Mon Mar 04, 2002 2:46 am

Continental operates EWR-HKG with 777-200s, at least thats what was said in Airways magazine...  Smile
 
funny
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PapaTango

Mon Mar 04, 2002 3:22 am

No, it China Soutern. Says it in airways magazine.

Jason
 
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apuneger
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Mon Mar 04, 2002 3:32 am

That must have been one amazing flight. I'd really like to fly over the North Pole (or the South Pole, whatever) someday...

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Mon Mar 04, 2002 3:35 am



Is there a dip where the North Pole is, did you actually fly that??

BA777  Big thumbs up
 
delta-flyer
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North

Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:52 am

I think it's a plotting software anomaly or else I have a stray point (labeled west instead of east maybe)? I eliminated some of the points near the pole, so now it looks better. Try this......
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=dtw-70n84w-89n179w-88n132e-54n104e-50n107e-47n109e-44n112e-41n114e-pek%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

Basically, we just made a slight left turn near the pole.

Pete

"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
dfleet7
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Mon Mar 04, 2002 6:25 am

just in case you didnt know,
airlines usually make that dip before reaching the north pole because it screws up the navigation devices (like compasses) to fly directly over the north pole. think about where the needle on the compass would be if you flew directly over the north pole!
Drew
 
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North

Mon Mar 04, 2002 6:57 am

Well, I hardly think we flew by compass! It would haev been tricky heading south -- any direction you pick is south! In any event, the most northerly latitude we reached was 88 deg 54 m.

I do not see any reason that GPS should have any trouble navigating the poles.

Peter
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
rendezvous
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Mon Mar 04, 2002 6:58 am

That route isn't over the magnetic north pole anyway.
 
ahawk
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Mon Mar 04, 2002 6:59 am

That's right, Leftseat86. Continental flies 777s nonstop EWR <-> HKG 4 times a week.
 
jesseycy
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North

Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:50 pm

Away from the topic.....

So are the EWR-HKG flights full? I gather they would be catered for the business people, rushed for time..... It would have been one amazing flight for aviation fans though........ Imagine looking down at the ice caps if it's clear.....
 
nicolasrolland
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:09 pm



the EWR-HKG Route with Continental
I dont think it use the polar routes right?
well Im just not sure that it goes thru the north pole... it use the conventional route going over canada,
alaska and back down to hongkong..

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Just like Cathay with their 14h flight
during some season from Hongkong -> Toronto
 
carnoc
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CZ Safely Flies NYC/Beijing Polar Test Run

Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:46 pm

Details by China Southern Airlines official web site
http://www.cs-air.com/en/news/20010724/002.htm

China Southern Airlines Safely Flies NYC/Beijing Polar Test Run; No Problem For Boeing 777 Over North Pole

NEW YORK CITY - July 24, 2001- China Southern Airlines (NYSE: ZNH) (HKSE: 1055), the largest airline in The People's Republic of China is pleased to announce that it safely conducted a demonstration flight on a polar routing from New York City (JFK) to Beijing Capital Airport using its long-range Boeing 777 aircraft.

The aircraft, crammed with technicians from Boeing, CAAC and China Southern departed New York City at 01:13 a.m. (Beijing Time) on July 15 and traversed north over the United States, Canada, the North Pole, Russia's Far East and Mongolia before safely touching down 14 hours later at Beijing Capital Airport.

A north Polar route refers to flights over the North Pole area along a longitudinal direction, connecting North American metropolitan cities with their Asian counterparts. The current Sino-US transpacific air routes are along a latitudinal direction moving West/East around the Earth.

China Southern Airlines has always looked at a North Polar service with keen interest. The 6,559-nautical-mile route from New York to Beijing not only considerably shortens the distance between West and East but also saves fuel and can lower landing and take-off fees. And, perhaps most important, since it is a non-stop, direct flight, passengers can avoid time consuming transits at other international airports before reaching their final destination either in the United States or China.

North Polar flights present significant aviation challenges that typical flights never encounter: super strong magnetic fields which can heavily affect an aircraft's compass navigation and a full-year of sub-zero temperatures reaching minus 60-70 C degrees.

Such a low atmospheric temperatures could, to some extent, affect an aircraft's operation. The fluctuations in the Earth's magnetic field and few ground navigation facilities might also interrupt the normal communication between aircraft and airport ground stations.

And … there is the human factor.

The Arctic presents a bleak, featureless and dead world that might be an added psychological pressure on even the most seasoned airline pilot.

In an effort to meet these challenges head-on, the carrier created a special "Polar Flight Group" and with the full backing of China Southern's state-of-the-art System Operation Control Center in Guangzhou - the first advanced flight operations control system in The People's Republic of China - the carrier conducted a series of pre-flight evaluations and analysis of the planned air route and worked out a complete and detailed flight plan.

Mr. Jiang Ping, Vice President of China Southern Airlines was appointed as the team leader of the North Polar test flight which was staffed with the airlines' top two flight crews and six of the airlines' senior captains, including lead Captain Hao Jianhua.

Also tapped was Chief Pilot and the first-grade pilot of China Southern Airlines, Captain Shi Yongqiang, Director of China Southern's Operations Management Office; Captain Liu Qing, Deputy General Manager of the System Operation Control Center; Captain Wang Renjie, Deputy Director of China Southern's Boeing 777 Fleet; Captain Jin Weifeng, winner of the National May 1st Labor Award and Captain Hu Wei, Division Chief of the Boeing 777 fleet.

In addition, the airline selected the very best co-pilots and experienced cabin crew and maintenance staff to join the Polar Flight Group.

Meanwhile, China Southern Airlines invited senior flight instructors from Boeing to New York City to make presentations to the entire crew prior to the test flight.

In case of any possible unforeseen environmental factors the aircraft might encounter, the flight crew developed backup plans for their backup plans. The cockpit crew collected comprehensive information on weather; air to ground communication and navigation along the polar route; alternative airport landing sites; a detailed flight plan and "walked through" various emergency scenarios.

In addition, China Southern Airlines' maintenance staff - on hand at JFK International Airport - conducted a "top to bottom" inspection on the aircraft and strictly monitored the airplane's air worthiness during the flight.

After the briefing by Boeing, lead Captain Hao Jianhua, called together the entire flight crew to again conduct a detailed preflight countdown, elaborately selecting five airports scattered throughout Russia, Canada, Norway and Mongolia to serve as possible alternative sites for an emergency landing. For this test flight, China Southern Airlines selected the most difficult possible route - directly over the North Pole.

Simultaneously - 10,000 miles away in Guangzhou - aviation specialists at the System Operations Control Center worked all night long monitoring the aircraft's progress through Global Positioning Satellite technology and was able to keep in full voice contact with the airborne 777 flight crew.

Throughout the flight, the cockpit crew of the Boeing 777 reported that the aircraft was "stable and quite comfortable" as it zipped through the subzero atmosphere with little headwind and turbulence.
 
AA717driver
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:31 am

"...the Arctic presents a bleak, featureless..." That's why you take lots of DVD's for your laptop!:DTC
FL450, M.85
 
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:36 am

Didn't Canada 3000, fly over the pole to New Deli India from Toronto with Heavy Airbus 340-300X?
 
LY744
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Tue Mar 05, 2002 6:04 am

Both the C3 flight to India and CO EWR-HKG are polar routes.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
artsyman
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RE: B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole

Tue Mar 05, 2002 6:59 am

The Continental HKG flights are running pretty full at the moment, and have been pretty successful in all. Like all routes, it dipped post Sept 11th, but in our pass travel advisories, it is listed as one of the routes to avoid non-revving on at the moment due to high load factors.

Jer
 
jourdan747
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RE: North Pole Flights

Tue Mar 05, 2002 5:32 pm

In case anyone is interested, CONDOR flys from Fairbanks,Alaska non-stop over the pole to Frankfurt,Germany in a 767-300ER.And they also fly Anchorage non-stop over the pole to Frankfurt.

All these flights operate in the summer when there is daylight 24 hours over the poles so the chances of seeing landscape are really good if its clear skys.

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