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NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:21 am

Also, it seems that with introduction of the A332 onto AKL MH will be changing their KUL-AKL schedule again.
This time looks like a late evening departure from KUL. Interesting:

KUL-AKL 2325 - 1320
AKL-KUL 2240 - 0605
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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:58 am

NZ321 wrote:
Also, it seems that with introduction of the A332 onto AKL MH will be changing their KUL-AKL schedule again.
This time looks like a late evening departure from KUL. Interesting:

KUL-AKL 2325 - 1320
AKL-KUL 2240 - 0605


Another Asian carrier goes for overnight in both directions, downside is a long ground time but if it improves yields or overall performance then guess it’s worth it.

HX are doing overnight both directions with one flight this winter.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:29 pm

FR24 has Air NZ 789 ZK-NZE being towed from stand 82 at the International Terminal to the Air NZ Maintenance Base on Saturday at about 1100, presumably after loading some fuel for the test flight. Don't know why ADS-B was not used in both directions. Is ADS-B only used for towing at ATC's request?

PA515
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:23 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Another day, another drone incident at AKL - this time, causing delays: "a drone was spotted by two pilots on approach to Auckland airport at 2.46pm and was flying at an altitude of approximately 1,200 feet ... It was 3 nautical miles from runway 05 in the direction of Manukau."

See: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12027587.

Given NZ's recent comments about wanting greater regulation around the use of drones in New Zealand, it'll be interesting to see whether the CAA takes note, and imposes some sort of registration requirement for drones. What other alternatives could there be on the table?

Cheers,

C.

It’s past time something was done about these drones in Manukau. Perhaps the police should have their own drone (flying at a lower altitude) that they can deploy as soon aaa drone is reported and track down where it has come from. People need to be arrested and drones confiscated. I would suggest perhaps some ads on Mai.fm might help too.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:26 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
... downside is a long ground time but if it improves yields or overall performance then guess it’s worth it.

I know crew layover costs are burdensome, but I wonder if, given that down-time, a tag to WLG should be considered? After all, SQ isn't overly competitive at WLG, with its one-stop service via MEL, so MH might be able to better share some of the yield out of there? It's probably unlikely - just a thought.

NZ321 wrote:
Interesting to see that HX is reducing frequency to AKL to 5 a week.

Indeed - CX's brand in AKL is recovering from the days of the 343's (which were left on the AKL service too long), now that the 359's are here - this may have hurt HX. In addition, there are more mainland services for HX to compete with this year, like GS' XIY service. I hope they go back to 2x daily in NW.

DavidJ08 wrote:
... these training schools tend to market themselves to airlines as a cadet training service, rather than to individual students.

They definitely market themselves to individual international students - see, for example:

- Ardmore: http://www.ardmore.co.nz/international- ... gIrLPD_BwE.
- Hawke's Bay: http://airhb.co.nz/hong-kong-internatio ... -training/.
- Nelson: http://www.nelson-aviation.co.nz/international.html.
- NZICPA: http://www.nzicpa.nz/international-students/.
- PPT: http://www.pacificpilot.co.nz/international-students.
- Southern Wings: https://www.southernwings.co.nz/interna ... w-zealand/.

How successful they are at recruiting individual international students is another question.

Cheers,

C.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:54 am

NZ to dramatically boost Tasman capacity after splitting with VA.
"Air New Zealand will launch two new routes across the Tasman from December this year and add an extra 15% seat capacity across all its Tasman services year on year.
From 18 Dec, the carrier will operate up to four times a week between Queenstown and Brisbane, lifting capacity 20%; and five times weekly between Wellington and Brisbane, a 15% increase.
In addition to the new routes, NZ says it is adding significant extra transtasman capacity to-from Christchurch from 28 Oct, moving to double daily on peak days to both Melbourne and Brisbane, and double daily Mon-Fri for Sydney; a 15% increase in transtasman on Christchurch services.
There will also be 125,000 additional seats ex Auckland, including a new business timed morning flight to Melbourne, more evening flights to Brisbane and a new middle of the day flight to Sydney."

The 2 new routes is interesting. If they mean 2 completely new routes then CBR will surely be one ex AKL. HBA or NTL would likely be the other.

It looks like VA is caught between a rock and hard place.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
A350OZ
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:23 am

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ to dramatically boost Tasman capacity after splitting with VA.
"Air New Zealand will launch two new routes across the Tasman from December this year and add an extra 15% seat capacity across all its Tasman services year on year.
From 18 Dec, the carrier will operate up to four times a week between Queenstown and Brisbane, lifting capacity 20%; and five times weekly between Wellington and Brisbane, a 15% increase.
In addition to the new routes, NZ says it is adding significant extra transtasman capacity to-from Christchurch from 28 Oct, moving to double daily on peak days to both Melbourne and Brisbane, and double daily Mon-Fri for Sydney; a 15% increase in transtasman on Christchurch services.
There will also be 125,000 additional seats ex Auckland, including a new business timed morning flight to Melbourne, more evening flights to Brisbane and a new middle of the day flight to Sydney."

The 2 new routes is interesting. If they mean 2 completely new routes then CBR will surely be one ex AKL. HBA or NTL would likely be the other.

It looks like VA is caught between a rock and hard place.


Thanks for this. I think they mean ZQN-BNE and WLG-BNE with the "two new routes", as both are flown by VA exclusively at the moment.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:31 am

A nice boost for NZ at BNE, though interestingly, there's no sign of NZ taking on VA on BNE - DUD. Let's see if VA keeps that route.

Cheers,

C.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:02 am

Seems about right not quite 7 daily that I said AKL-SYD but 6, often 5 of those will be widebodies and 5 weekday AKL-MEL. I’d imagine AKL-BNE might get an additional service in NS, or a wide body in the afternoon, could be A321’s I guess in the mix aswell, interesting they won’t offer for NW it seems an early AKL-BNE like VA at 0645. Good to see WLG/CHC/ZQN get additional services aswell.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:37 am

Looking at AKL-SYD on an average day in December its now.

0700 - 77E
0900 - 77W
1100 - 77E
1300 - 77E
1600 - 77E
1930 - 320

That is allot of 777 capacity, guess they want to out do QF's twice daily 332 service that has billboards all around Auckland at the moment.

How much longer do you think VA will remain on the Tasman?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:59 am

zkncj wrote:
Looking at AKL-SYD on an average day in December its now.

0700 - 77E
0900 - 77W
1100 - 77E
1300 - 77E
1600 - 77E
1930 - 320

That is allot of 777 capacity, guess they want to out do QF's twice daily 332 service that has billboards all around Auckland at the moment.

How much longer do you think VA will remain on the Tasman?


I can’t see VA dropping the Tasman, some flights may go to Tiger but VA I feel will need to increase frequency to be competitive.
 
sq256
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:48 am

VA also have some limited beyond rights in AKL (RAR and TBU). Both would also come into play in regards to VA's beyond Oct AU-AKL schedule.
 
xiaotung
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:20 am

From Wingtips this afternoon:

Loyalty Members:

Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia are currently working through transitional frequent flyer arrangements. A Wingtips will be sent once there is an update on this.

What arrangements need to be worked through? Are they planning on keeping FFP ties to some degree?
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:52 am

sq256 wrote:
VA also have some limited beyond rights in AKL (RAR and TBU). Both would also come into play in regards to VA's beyond Oct AU-AKL schedule.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK, Australian and New Zealand carriers have extensive (not limited) rights in one another's jurisdiction - hence how NZ operated SYD - LAX, and QF operated AKL - LAX. New Zealand takes a very liberal approach to air rights, so if VA wanted to launch more international routes ex-AKL, then there wouldn't be any issues from the New Zealand end.

The issues would arise from the third-country, and in the Pacific Islands, this can be problematic. For example, the VA Group was dumped from AKL - APW by the Samoan government on short notice (in favour of OL), and I couldn't see Fiji allowing VA to launch AKL - NAN either, as they protect FJ extensively (e.g. not allowing EK to launch SYD - NAN, when EK requested this).

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:21 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidJ08 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
- NZ turned down an offer from S8 to interline together.

A bit more context ... "yes the technology wasn't there, whereas we've certainly got it now". Air NZ's statement (at the bottom of the article) referenced compatible booking systems as an example of what's needed for interline ops, and said that interline agreements tend to be between large long haul carriers.

Sure, "tend to be," but you know that NZ already codeshares with GZ on turbo-prop flights, right? In fact, those GZ flights are operated by the SAAB340, which is what CV would be using to PPQ. Oh, and that NZ - GZ code-sharing relationship dates back to May 2007, so I'm not quite sure how NZ could turn down S8's code-share offer three years ago on the grounds of technology - unless GZ had some massively superior booking system than S8's (which I doubt).

Cheers,

C.


Do you know the history of GZ and how they became available via GDS? If you do you'll better understand why they're on there, also looking at their operation and the differences to S8 will help explain the importance.

Why would NZ waste their time interlining with S8? What exactly is the benefit to them?

Kashmon wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Birdiey wrote:
... within the New Zealand domestic market.

IMO, they won't last in the mainline domestic New Zealand market - fares can't really go much lower than they already are on the trunk routes, and if pushed by TT to do so, JQ or NZ (likely the latter) will vigorously meet any such threat with retaliation.

Perhaps they could tag Tasman flights to secondary New Zealand cities, like SYD - AKL - IVC / NPE / PMR or SYD - WLG - HLZ / ROT / TRG, but those tags would likely only be once a day (with terrible yield), and hard to fill, given small city sizes.

IMO, they should focus on holiday routes ex-AKL / WLG / CHC, to the likes of CNS and MCY, and/or holiday routes ex-HLZ / PMR / DUD, to the likes of BNE, OOL and SYD. That'd at least give them some differentiation from JQ. Though, it's still risky.

Cheers,

C.


fares can't go lower?!!
jeez
I hope someone aggressive comes in and takes on NZ

JQ and NZ have a gentleman's agreement...


If you're expecting a FR or U2 set up in New Zealand with prices consistently under $5 then think again. NZ doesn't have a range of second stream airports to operate into at lower costs, the two main NZ hubs AKL and WLG are expensive and domestic terminal facilities are at a premium and are not cheap either. WLG has a curfew so back of the clock flying is ruled out and Airways NZ collective agreement doesn't have maned towers at other jet capable ports for back of the clock flying. Turbo Probs don't work for LCC's so you're left with either 'prime time flying' for airway and airport charges or a small window of off peak flying 2200-2300 WLG-AKL etc... not enough and not enough or enough routes to make a super low cost operations viable.

JQ also experienced flack from the Kiwi public when they started up when attempting a hard line zero tolerance LCC model. Kiwis want the prices but don't want the "conditions" with it. So that only makes it harder.

NZ and JQ would dump thousands of sears into the market at $9, $19 etc and make it near impossible for another LCC to start up unless they had very deep pockets. I know myself I'd pay $49 for NZ over $9 on a LCC just based on reputation, reliability and overall trust and confidence.

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Looking at AKL-SYD on an average day in December its now.

0700 - 77E
0900 - 77W
1100 - 77E
1300 - 77E
1600 - 77E
1930 - 320

That is allot of 777 capacity, guess they want to out do QF's twice daily 332 service that has billboards all around Auckland at the moment.

How much longer do you think VA will remain on the Tasman?


I can’t see VA dropping the Tasman, some flights may go to Tiger but VA I feel will need to increase frequency to be competitive.


I don't expect Tiger to enter NZ, what I think may happen (if anything) long term is TR will pick up the Tasman flying as a LCC. VA will pull back and become domestic only Australia flying.

VA has suffered the fate many other carriers have when they've attempted to grow into an international airline. They were at their best when they were focusing on a Domestic Australia only. I wish others would learn from South West.
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:16 pm

NZ6 wrote:
Why would NZ waste their time interlining with S8? What exactly is the benefit to them?


Not a great number in terms of passengers - some, perhaps.

However it would cost them sixpence and they would accrue a huge amount of good will, from much of the business community, a lot of the community at large snd the politicians. As such, we may very well have avoided Mr. Jones contretemps, for example.

These things may not be important to you, but "good will" figures on any balance sheet, in various forms and in varying styles.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:19 pm

I agree with above analysis re VA. Much better for them to focus on domestic only and doing a really good job of that with a single mainline aircraft type (they could for instance take 737 Max 10 and Max 8) plus a link division to service smaller towns. Then they can remain independent and interline with all the non-QF aligned carriers they choose rather than align with Skyteam or Star. Suspect too we will see TR on the Tasman in future. Have their service / reliability issues improved?
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:52 pm

VA is in big trouble if they don't negotiate this correctly. They have a lot of things to sort, and some of them will not have positive outcomes for the airline. VA already has major issues with profitability and efficiency.

Is it worth flying just to maintain a presence or are the meagre scraps of transtasman flying profits worth the bother?
If they do stay, Do they really want to compete with NZ/QF and an inferior product for similar prices?
Do they have deep enough pockets to cope? If yes, is it actually worthwhile for their greater network plan?
For the regional market, is that worth anything without NZ collaborating? Will they stick it out there or can they force TT to make the best of it?

Realistically I think there is a major growth for NZ about to happen, and for once I don't think it will just be AKL that benefits. things like ADL and AKL-PER-CHC and additional widebody ops to SYD/MEL have indicated the direction they want to go for some time. NZ also needs to link these increases with their long haul expansion. I have for a while been suggesting that short haul was what would need to be expanded to make long-haul expansion possible.

I think to make the best of these banks you will see markets with less than daily go to daily widebody, those with one a day, go to 2 a day, 321s and markets that already have many flights filled in the gaps with A320 operations. The A320s will have most use for taking over the WLG/ZQN/CHC/DUD flying. There is even a good reason for increasing TBU and RAR flights, if you can hit their profitable flights then you limit the reason for positioning a plane to AKL T-T to begin with.
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:24 am

With NZ getting A321's and able to match aircraft capacity to flights quite easily VA is going to find it very tough on the Tasman especially with QF stepping up it's game also.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:31 am

I must admit, I'm shocked that NZ has been ranked as the second best airline in the world, just behind SQ, but ahead of EK - this is in TripAdvisor's 2018 Travellers' Choice awards.

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/102 ... ice-awards.

On international flights, NZ is far behind those carriers - e.g. in Y, on seat width (versus SQ), seat pitch (versus EK), amenity kits, IFE (including in-flight magazines), as well as FFP.

Supposedly these awards recognize exceeding customer expectations, but IMHO, NZ doesn't manage expectations, particularly with its in-flight announcements that it's the best in the world.

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:37 am

mariner wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Why would NZ waste their time interlining with S8? What exactly is the benefit to them?


Not a great number in terms of passengers - some, perhaps.

However it would cost them sixpence and they would accrue a huge amount of good will, from much of the business community, a lot of the community at large snd the politicians. As such, we may very well have avoided Mr. Jones contretemps, for example.

These things may not be important to you, but "good will" figures on any balance sheet, in various forms and in varying styles.

mariner


When you say interline you've got to consider the entire package...

- Agreeing on coupon SPA's ($$)
- Baggage Allowances
- Min connection times
- Disruption Policy

There's a cost associated with all of this. Some are just set up costs others are ongoing costs.

Think about PCN-WLG on S8, passenger travelling on-wards let's say .... X/WLG-NZ-X/AKL-NZ-X/LAX-AA-MIA. S8 is delayed the entire journey is re-booked at S8's costs, it may involve using DL through ATL as an example, they need to re-book and at their own expense, remember their coupon PCN-WLG was probably $100. I can't imagine S8 could afford to do that too long so S8 I'd imagine would want to interline on selected routes only. PCN-WLG onto short haul of domestic only for example. That's starting to jeaopized NZ's own business now, NZ would want PAX to fly BHE-NZ-X/WLG-NZ-SYD not PCN-S8-X/WLG-NZ-SYD

PCN and BHE are just under 30km apart so if you're off to SYD from this area you're likely going for more than a just the day, therefore 30km's isn't far to drive. If it's a day trip to WLG only convenience of PCN may be attractive to some if the price if right, hence S8 flying it.

My guess is this would suit S8 nicely but offer NZ nothing, hence my comment why would NZ do it.

I think NZ's shown it's here to operate as a commercially viable business and isn't too worried in making hard decisions which upset some if it's not favorable to their bottom line.
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:50 am

NZ6 wrote:
My guess is this would suit S8 nicely but offer NZ nothing, hence my comment why would NZ do it.

I think NZ's shown it's here to operate as a commercially viable business and isn't too worried in making hard decisions which upset some if it's not favorable to their bottom line.


That's precisely my point - it would be great for Sounds and it offers NZ very little - other than good will. If good will is unimportant to you we might as well end this now.

But anyone trained in accountancy would tell you it's important:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/goodwill.asp

Goodwill

Goodwill is considered an intangible asset because it is not a physical asset like buildings or equipment. The goodwill account can be found in the assets portion of a company's balance sheet.


mariner
aeternum nauta
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:06 am

planemanofnz wrote:
I must admit, I'm shocked that NZ has been ranked as the second best airline in the world, just behind SQ, but ahead of EK - this is in TripAdvisor's 2018 Travellers' Choice awards.

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/102 ... ice-awards.

On international flights, NZ is far behind those carriers - e.g. in Y, on seat width (versus SQ), seat pitch (versus EK), amenity kits, IFE (including in-flight magazines), as well as FFP.

Supposedly these awards recognize exceeding customer expectations, but IMHO, NZ doesn't manage expectations, particularly with its in-flight announcements that it's the best in the world.

Cheers,

C.


All those things are simply subjective . I guess those who ranked these airlines see it differently to you.

That's something I've been saying for years on topics such as the 10 abreast debate and other little things such as In-flight Mag and Amenity kits (which almost always end up unopened by the general public or is left for cleaners to pick in bits after boredom and curiosity got the better of people, all while slowing down your turn time).

There needs to be some recognition that what many readers here (as passionate airline geeks) think and feel often differs to those of the general public who want to go from A to B.

Personally, I've flown EK and NZ in the last 6 months, EK although very well groomed lacked genuine warmth and hospitality of NZ. Yes I'm NZ biased but I like the NZ crew because of their style, the feel and mood of the NZ cabin and I actually find the latest IFE more than enough.

I could care less about a in-flight mag, don't dare give me an amenity kit. they are cheap and tacky! I feel rewarded by air-points. Although an employee I'm also a Koru member and earn a lot of points via credit card etc so do a lot of reward travel with little effort.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:11 am

mariner wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
My guess is this would suit S8 nicely but offer NZ nothing, hence my comment why would NZ do it.

I think NZ's shown it's here to operate as a commercially viable business and isn't too worried in making hard decisions which upset some if it's not favorable to their bottom line.


That's precisely my point - it would be great for Sounds and it offers NZ very little - other than good will. If good will is unimportant to you we might as well end this now.

But anyone trained in accountancy would tell you it's important:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/goodwill.asp

Goodwill

Goodwill is considered an intangible asset because it is not a physical asset like buildings or equipment. The goodwill account can be found in the assets portion of a company's balance sheet.


mariner


Oh I agree with your comment regarding goodwill. But where does it stop, I mean if everything was goodwill would I be changed change fees? would you downgrade my tier, would you ever withdraw a route.

Goodwill is important and so is making business decisions, I guess someone needs to decide if this "Goodwill" is worth the effort and it there enough "Goodwill" there to invest the time/money etc....

I'd imagine this would largely go unnoticed by many of those in PPQ, WHK, KAT etc
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:27 am

NZ6 wrote:
[I'd imagine this would largely go unnoticed by many of those in PPQ, WHK, KAT etc


On the contrary, I think it's very much at the forefront of the minds of people concerned with civil aviation in those areas - there's been enough hoo-haa in the press about "interline."

Campbell devoted an entire show to it, just about every paper mentions it:

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/prog ... al-carrier

Air NZ ‘has lost the identity as NZ’s national carrier’

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102643 ... nal-routes

Smaller airlines will swoop in if Air New Zealand quits more regional routes

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=12020149

Air Chathams closer to securing Kapiti to Auckland air route

The reality is the big brand items, such as Koru access and Interline, will not be coming our way, but that aside we are looking forward to continuing our due diligence and being in a position to hopefully make an announcement about our intentions as soon as possible.


mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Kashmon
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:54 am

planemanofnz wrote:
I must admit, I'm shocked that NZ has been ranked as the second best airline in the world, just behind SQ, but ahead of EK - this is in TripAdvisor's 2018 Travellers' Choice awards.

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/102 ... ice-awards.

On international flights, NZ is far behind those carriers - e.g. in Y, on seat width (versus SQ), seat pitch (versus EK), amenity kits, IFE (including in-flight magazines), as well as FFP.

Supposedly these awards recognize exceeding customer expectations, but IMHO, NZ doesn't manage expectations, particularly with its in-flight announcements that it's the best in the world.

Cheers,

C.

I think it is relative
NZ is a terrible airline for long haul relative to competitors

but their domestic is far superior to most other airlines short haul operations

Yes, KA for example might be better for short haul but they are always delayed.

It is not just about what you get
When I come off an NZ flight I do not feel groggy etc
EK/QF and even CX shorthaul the feeling is worse.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:23 am

planemanofnz wrote:
I must admit, I'm shocked that NZ has been ranked as the second best airline in the world, just behind SQ, but ahead of EK - this is in TripAdvisor's 2018 Travellers' Choice awards.

I think what this shows is that the public at large are NOT as critical of many of the things about NZ that the avgeeks on this board believe they are/should be . . .
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:53 am

The more you fly in Y long haul the more you realise it is the smaller things that add up to a good product. I mix my flying up over a number of carriers usually mentioned in this sordid industry back-slapping sessions. I think you can safely say that from the top of 5-star carriers to the bottom of 1-star carriers there is actually very little difference. Basically speaking to earn 1-star you need an aeroplane with seats onboard, 2-star adds Checkin/Multiple Classes 3-star adds lounges and IFE, 4 star adds better than average food/IFE/Service 5-star adds Extra amenities on top of 4-Star and more lavish lounges.

NZ Strengths (relative to most carriers)
-IFE
- ordering drinks/snacks via IFE rather than call button.
- Ease of Kiosk check-in process
- Premium Economy/Skycouch
-"hands-on" crew when it comes to babies/kids
- disrupt handling

Weaknesses
- aircraft configuration/seat design in J/Y
- The crew are rarely seen in the cabin outside of meal service.
- If anything the NZ crew have too much 'personality'
- Food is fairly plain, and portions small.

Now I could do the same for every single airline and they would have slightly different strengths and weaknesses, and our own personal requirements mean some airlines suit us more than others as a result. I have flown 6 out of the 10 so-called 5-star carriers, and they all have sizeable weakness lists too. The point is this, the "better" airlines offer a service standard that matches the most personal requirements as broadly as possible for as long as possible. The latest and greatest hard product never lasts for long enough for most people who don't travel much to form an impression of an airline, by the time they fly that airline the product is often dated/outclassed. the soft-product is what forms the lasting memory and that is an NZ strength, so it isn't surprising they do well in these kinds of awards..,
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
NZ6
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:48 am

mariner wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
[I'd imagine this would largely go unnoticed by many of those in PPQ, WHK, KAT etc


On the contrary, I think it's very much at the forefront of the minds of people concerned with civil aviation in those areas - there's been enough hoo-haa in the press about "interline."

Campbell devoted an entire show to it, just about every paper mentions it:

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/prog ... al-carrier

Air NZ ‘has lost the identity as NZ’s national carrier’

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102643 ... nal-routes

Smaller airlines will swoop in if Air New Zealand quits more regional routes

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=12020149

Air Chathams closer to securing Kapiti to Auckland air route

The reality is the big brand items, such as Koru access and Interline, will not be coming our way, but that aside we are looking forward to continuing our due diligence and being in a position to hopefully make an announcement about our intentions as soon as possible.


mariner


But the entire backbone of these stories are: Air NZ isn't a truly national airline anymore and it's "neglecting regional New Zealand", smaller carriers are going to come in and save the day.

I don't see why NZ needs to commit to a long term relationship with in some cases a genuine competitor (WLG-NSN, WLG-BHE, BHE-NPE etc)

I could argue in the interests of competition I don't want these carriers to interline, I would like to see Sounds Air, Air Chathams stand alone and take on NZ. I haven't seen JQ offer to come in and try interline, after all QF did with Origin Pacific post Ansett.

I do understand what you're saying and were you're coming from but it sounds like a moral obligation than a commercial one.

I'd say National did more damage to the Northland economy while in Government over NZ's KAT withdrawal by neglecting the road and rail infrastructure North of Auckland for so long.
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:38 am

NZ6 wrote:
I do understand what you're saying and were you're coming from but it sounds like a moral obligation than a commercial one.


Be very careful that you don't shoot the messenger.

At no stage have I espoused "interling" but in answer to your question I have presented the case for it even though I am still not convinced it is a good idea. However, the people who run the regional airlines - the small fry - are convinced it is a good idea, and I'm not going to argue with them.

This is about them - not about me.

Both Sounds and Chathams Air are in favour of interline and in one case - Sounds - they have actively approached NZ to interline and have been knocked back. Yet still they continue.

NZ6 wrote:
I'd say National did more damage to the Northland economy while in Government over NZ's KAT withdrawal by neglecting the road and rail infrastructure North of Auckland for so long.


You can try and make this political as much as you like, but I won't bite - LOL. I think KAT is a ludicrous place to have an airline these days and the fact that Barrier has had such trouble with it should illustrate that.
aeternum nauta
 
NZ6
Posts: 286
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:40 am

mariner wrote:
Both Sounds and Chathams Air are in favour of interline and in one case - Sounds - they have actively approached NZ to interline and have been knocked back. Yet still they continue.


Why, because it's opening their sales and distrabution channels. They've probably worked out they need that exposure to make some of these routes work.

Much like NZ needs AR in EZE.

mariner wrote:
You can try and make this political as much as you like, but I won't bite - LOL. I think KAT is a ludicrous place to have an airline these days and the fact that Barrier has had such trouble with it should illustrate that.


Oh I don't want to trust me, I hate politics.

I guess my point is cry all you like that there's no air service but fix the roads first please.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:35 am

Auckland Airport is closed. Aircraft that were circling are now diverting south. Really nasty sudden wind gusts.

PA515
 
a7ala
Posts: 147
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:57 am

PA515 wrote:
Auckland Airport is closed. Aircraft that were circling are now diverting south. Really nasty sudden wind gusts.

PA515


Why are most of the narrow body flights diverting to chc rather than wlg? Even some that were flying wlg -akl are heading back to chc when you would think returning to origin would be better for the pax?
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:12 am

a7ala wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Auckland Airport is closed. Aircraft that were circling are now diverting south. Really nasty sudden wind gusts.

PA515


Why are most of the narrow body flights diverting to chc rather than wlg? Even some that were flying wlg -akl are heading back to chc when you would think returning to origin would be better for the pax?


I expect with so many aircraft involved parking would be a problem at WLG. And CHC has the Deep Freeze Base area free now the Antarctic season is finished. One of the domestic JQ 320s diverted to HLZ.

PA515
 
ZKOAB
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:36 am

PA515 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Auckland Airport is closed. Aircraft that were circling are now diverting south. Really nasty sudden wind gusts.

PA515


Why are most of the narrow body flights diverting to chc rather than wlg? Even some that were flying wlg -akl are heading back to chc when you would think returning to origin would be better for the pax?


I expect with so many aircraft involved parking would be a problem at WLG. And CHC has the Deep Freeze Base area free now the Antarctic season is finished. One of the domestic JQ 320s diverted to HLZ.

PA515


Watching FR24 now and it’s utter chaos!
 
CHCalfonzo
Posts: 115
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:39 am

a7ala wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Auckland Airport is closed. Aircraft that were circling are now diverting south. Really nasty sudden wind gusts.

PA515


Why are most of the narrow body flights diverting to chc rather than wlg? Even some that were flying wlg -akl are heading back to chc when you would think returning to origin would be better for the pax?


31kt winds with rain and hail in WLG at the moment, it's almost as bad as AKL.
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 85
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:04 am

mariner wrote:
At no stage have I espoused "interling" but in answer to your question I have presented the case for it even though I am still not convinced it is a good idea. However, the people who run the regional airlines - the small fry - are convinced it is a good idea, and I'm not going to argue with them.

Isn't it only natural that they think it's a good idea though? Whatever spin they put on it, the regional airlines are biased on this matter just like the regional mayors. Between the regional airlines and the regional mayors they've tried making it sound like the public really wants/needs it (they may well do), they've tried to make it sound like something Air NZ would benefit greatly from, and then they've gone on waving the "national carrier status" thing around, which is essentially calling Air NZ names. ("Air New Zealand has lost its status as our national carrier because it's not a provincial service provider" - compare this statement with a schoolyard "you're a poopyhead because you won't share your lunch with me". Heavy-handed analogy I know, but that's how I view that statement and the moral obligation it invokes.)

For the small fry, the ability to interline with Air NZ gives them an advantage (even though one mayor tried to spin it in the media as giving Air NZ a competitive advantage) - not to mention the status symbol of being "an Air New Zealand affiliate" - and the improvement in public awareness and perception associated with being an "affiliate airline" rather than a puddle jumper mainly known to the locals (yes I'm being rather heavy-handed here to make a point). For Air NZ the benefits are much more limited and abstract - the ability to market destinations they've withdrawn from? The goodwill from "being a provincial service provicer"? I think when Air NZ withdrew from those regional destinations they were prepared to go on without the support of those communities, so I doubt they'd do interline just to get back into those communities.
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 85
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:07 am

a7ala wrote:
Why are most of the narrow body flights diverting to chc rather than wlg? Even some that were flying wlg -akl are heading back to chc when you would think returning to origin would be better for the pax?

CHC has much better weather at the moment - and some of the trans-Tasman diversions on their way in won't make the midnight curfew at WLG.

Also NZ456 WLG-AKL actually came back towards WLG, and descended towards WLG to as low as 7,000ft before it climbed away again and turned to CHC, so they definitely tried to go back to WLG. Perhaps it's weather in WLG and fuel status? (Say, if the fuel situation was such that had they done a couple of approaches unsuccessfully in WLG they wouldn't have enough fuel to go to CHC, then they would probably play it safe and go straight to CHC where they know they can land.) https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 6#10fdc8ff
 
NZ321
Posts: 625
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:26 am

Yes today was chaotic. Got significantly delayed in AKL then managed to get on an earlier flight that was also subsequently delayed by about 45 minutes and the weather in WLG wasn't and still isn't very palatable. But nothing like what I have experienced at times.
Plane mad!
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:32 am

QF 149 SYD-AKL 332 has returned to SYD and QF 155 MEL-AKL 738 and QF 125 BNE-AKL 738 appear to have turned back also. And NZ 108 SYD-AKL 77E is returning to SYD. There are some other flights showing on FR24 as still heading to AKL with an estimated position that may have also turned back.

Edit:
NZ 126 MEL-AKL 77E now returning to MEL.

PA515
Last edited by PA515 on Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
a7ala
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:39 am

CHCalfonzo wrote:
a7ala wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Auckland Airport is closed. Aircraft that were circling are now diverting south. Really nasty sudden wind gusts.

PA515


Why are most of the narrow body flights diverting to chc rather than wlg? Even some that were flying wlg -akl are heading back to chc when you would think returning to origin would be better for the pax?


31kt winds with rain and hail in WLG at the moment, it's almost as bad as AKL.


Nah is ok in wlg. Winds straight up and down the runway. Issue is probably (as others have said) more to do with va bne and nz+qf syds about to come in meaning gates full. Just shows wlg needs to increase its gate/apron parking capacity asap as there isn't much redundancy or scope for growth.

Must cost the airlines thousands to divert all the way down to chc (50% further than wlg).
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:05 pm

a7ala wrote:
Nah is ok in wlg. Winds straight up and down the runway. Issue is probably (as others have said) more to do with va bne and nz+qf syds about to come in meaning gates full. Just shows wlg needs to increase its gate/apron parking capacity asap as there isn't much redundancy or scope for growth.

Must cost the airlines thousands to divert all the way down to chc (50% further than wlg).

The issue isn't whether the wind is straight up and down the runway, it's how strong they are - and strong winds tend not to be steady near the ground so there's a lot of gusts, turbulence and windshear, which blow the aircraft around on approach, making a safe, stable approach difficult and sometimes impossible. Right now the Wellington METAR reads 18030G45 - it's just about as windy as Auckland right now, and with the shorter runway there's not much room for error, not a safe bet for diverting.

Also need to mention again the curfew in WLG - no aircraft movement allowed between midnight and 6am (with a 30-min leeway for diversions - definitely no more movements after 12.30) - so if you divert an aircraft to WLG it will be stuck there until 6am, whereas if you divert to CHC you can potentially fly back to AKL in a couple of hours' time once the wind settles down.

Diverting to CHC won't be all that much more expensive than WLG - with distances this short it takes more fuel to get the airplane from ground height up to cruising height anyways. Going around (shooting a missed approach) also takes a fair amount of fuel and with winds the way they are in WLG a go-around is quite likely. There's a lot more costs to diversion than the fuel to get there, like putting pax up in hotels and transporting them there and back, also rebooking onto another flight (or operating a delayed flight with the original aircraft and pax) - they'll likely need to call in another crew to get the aircraft back to AKL for tomorrow's work. For the thousands of dollars each diversion costs the airline, "distance to get there" is not actually that big a deal.

If they divert to CHC, they may not need to put people up in hotels - because they can fly back to AKL in the middle of the night; whereas if they divert to WLG, because of the curfew they will almost certainly have to do hotels, which will cost a ton of money.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:51 pm

NZ706D and the JQs diverted to CHC and HLZ both positioning back to AKL now and SQC and QFC and QR inbound on schedule now
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 85
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:03 pm

NZ281D also airborne heading back to AKL. The delayed long haul departures are underway too - EK449 to DXB, MU780 to PVG, 3U8910 to CTU to name a few.
 
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mariner
Posts: 19394
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:14 pm

DavidJ08 wrote:
For the small fry, the ability to interline with Air NZ gives them an advantage (even though one mayor tried to spin it in the media as giving Air NZ a competitive advantage) - not to mention the status symbol of being "an Air New Zealand affiliate" - and the improvement in public awareness and perception associated with being an "affiliate airline" rather than a puddle jumper mainly known to the locals (yes I'm being rather heavy-handed here to make a point). For Air NZ the benefits are much more limited and abstract - the ability to market destinations they've withdrawn from? The goodwill from "being a provincial service provicer"? I think when Air NZ withdrew from those regional destinations they were prepared to go on without the support of those communities, so I doubt they'd do interline just to get back into those communities.


It my be a good idea - I offer no opinion on it at all. What worries me is that it will become like NZ used to be - mainline plus a number of little airlines, starting with Mount Cook, which will eventually lead to them becoming subsidiaries, which is (a) the last thing I want and (b) the cycle starting all over again.

It will be what it will be. Even if I agreed with it (which I mostly do) there's nothing I can do about it, I don't run an airline and I have discovered that there are all sorts off things with which I disagree. The hoo-haa about going to Antartica was just one example. :-)

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:49 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
I must admit, I'm shocked that NZ has been ranked as the second best airline in the world, just behind SQ, but ahead of EK - this is in TripAdvisor's 2018 Travellers' Choice awards.

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/102 ... ice-awards.

On international flights, NZ is far behind those carriers - e.g. in Y, on seat width (versus SQ), seat pitch (versus EK), amenity kits, IFE (including in-flight magazines), as well as FFP.

Supposedly these awards recognize exceeding customer expectations, but IMHO, NZ doesn't manage expectations, particularly with its in-flight announcements that it's the best in the world.

Cheers,

C.

I wouldn't be shocked at all. These internet based surveys and reports really, really are not worth the bandwidth they're printed on. They are so far removed from being valid qualitative research I don't even know where to start. They are neither proof nor even an indication of any kind of ranking.

Are they worth anything? Without wanting to launch into a diatribe about how credible ranking surveys should be done, no. Coffee table/water cooler level of discussion, at best. As is evidenced by the fact NZ ranked seventh in one survey and second in another. It's all nonsense. No conclusions can be drawn whatsoever.
 
NZ6
Posts: 286
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:00 pm

mariner wrote:
It my be a good idea - I offer no opinion on it at all. What worries me is that it will become like NZ used to be - mainline plus a number of little airlines, starting with Mount Cook, which will eventually lead to them becoming subsidiaries, which is (a) the last thing I want and (b) the cycle starting all over again.

mariner


This comment made me smile, I thought about this a lot last month with the PPQ debate, I'm sure others did too, I'm surprised it wasn't raised.

Fact is:
- If there was money to be made on these routes NZ would be in there now making it, wouldn't they?
- Does NZ want to even be in that 10-25 seat market? even 35 seat market?
- Is there a difference between building a region and operating in a region when it's mature enough. For example: WAG, CV may operate that now and for the next 5-10 years, further down the track does NZ & CV go into partnership of any sort at that point or does NZ reenter the market themselves when the time is right? with a Q300 of equivalent equipment at the time.

At one point accruing Eagle, Mt Cook, Air Nelson was the right thing to do to create a nationwide network. I'm sure NZ picked up some lemon routes during this time (TEU). Will it happen again, well if there was a cycle NZ would be positioned nicely to do it again HOWEVER I don't see it happening.

NZ will be happy and so should the public, for small regional commuter services to operate where there isn't a requirement for a full scale commercial operation.
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:22 pm

NZ6 wrote:
NZ will be happy and so should the public, for small regional commuter services to operate where there isn't a requirement for a full scale commercial operation.


Which has been my point all along.

If you ask again why should NZ interline wth Sounds, my answer is they shouldn't necessarily. I'd just as soon Sounds, if they included Wanaka or even Queenstown, interlined with Qantas/Jetstar. Image

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Gasman
Posts: 1764
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:23 pm

NZ6 wrote:
- If there was money to be made on these routes NZ would be in there now making it, wouldn't they?

Not necessarily, because of.........
NZ6 wrote:
- Does NZ want to even be in that 10-25 seat market? even 35 seat market?

I seriously doubt it. NZ is already an airline of many quite different colours:
- The transtasman arm;
- The international long haul arm;
- The domestic main trunk arm;
- The domestic major regional arm.

These are all quite different business models and the fact that NZ executes them under one broad infrastructure is already pretty remarkable. I can imagine how it would be a nightmare to try and merge the interests of that infrastructure with the niche needs of our plethora of tiny regional routes. That NZ is withdrawing from them is entirely understandable.
 
NZ6
Posts: 286
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:31 pm

Gasman wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
- If there was money to be made on these routes NZ would be in there now making it, wouldn't they?

Not necessarily, because of.........
NZ6 wrote:
- Does NZ want to even be in that 10-25 seat market? even 35 seat market?



Yes, however those go hand in hand, they don't want to be in that market because the margins are too narrow. If they weren't they would you'd have to assume.

Gasman wrote:
- The transtasman arm;
- The international long haul arm;
- The domestic main trunk arm;
- The domestic major regional arm.

These are all quite different business models and the fact that NZ executes them under one broad infrastructure is already pretty remarkable. I can imagine how it would be a nightmare to try and merge the interests of that infrastructure with the niche needs of our plethora of tiny regional routes. That NZ is withdrawing from them is entirely understandable.


And where did I read earlier in week or last week about VA trying to be all things to all people are it backfiring? Can't recall where. it may have been here or somewhere else online.
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