OAG Changes 4/8/2018: DL Drops EWR-CDG, EW Drops RSW-CGN;, Level Into EWR-ORY, WN Adds MDW-SNA, Y4 Drops LAX-ACA/PVR

enilria · Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:41 pm

FAQ

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares departures for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

THE SCHEDULES SHOWN HERE CHANGE AFTER YOU POST???
-To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often---Winston Churchill. This is data the carriers filed at the point in time it was captured. It's changed since then. You are just going to have to live with it.

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

WHERE ARE SEATS SHOWN?
They aren't. This only shows departures.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Flights that do not operate every day of the month create fractional service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. For example, if a flight operates 4 times in April it will show 4/30=0.133=0.1. Also , a flight that only operates once per week may vary between 0.1 and 0.2 because a weekday may repeat either 4 or 5 times depending on the month.

WHAT ABOUT CARRIERS THAT DON'T PUBLISH A SCHEDULE 9 MONTHS IN ADVANCE?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. I remove the schedule adds if I see them and show a year over year (YOY) comparison if I notice them.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE SKYWEST
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THIS LOOKS LIKE AN ERROR?
The carriers file the schedules. They do make mistakes. Most of the mistakes I have seen are either related to code shares not being marked as "duplicates" or carriers filing flights with invalid data such as equipment codes that are not standard. This causes flights to not appear.

CHARTERS?
Lately charters have been showing up in the database. I have no idea if that will continue.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

9K ACK-BOS JUN 20>19 JUL 20>16 AUG 19>16
9K ACK-EWB JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4
9K ACK-HPN JUN 0.5>1.2 JUL 1.3>4 AUG 1.3>4
9K ACK-HYA JUN 9>8 JUL 9>6 AUG 9>6
9K ACK-MVY JUL 1.5>1.1
9K BOS-HYA JUL 3>1.1 AUG 3>0.9
9K BOS-MVY JUL 10>12 AUG 10>12
9K EWB-MVY JUL 3>1.7
9K HPN-MVY JUL 1.2>3 AUG 1.1>3

AA MIA-LIR DEC 3>1.9

These were previously Summer/Fall only
*AC BWI-YUL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC OMA-YYZ NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC PIT-YUL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC SMF-YVR NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

AS AUS-SJC SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2
AS BOS-LAX SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
AS BOS-SFO SEP 3>2
Interesting swap
AS DAL-SAN JUN 1.9>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 1.1>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
AS DAL-SJC JUL 1.0>1.8 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2
AS FAT-SAN SEP 2>3 OCT 2>3
AS FLL-LAX SEP 1.9>1.0 OCT 1.8>1.0
*AS JFK-SJC JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
AS LAS-LAX SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
AS LAX-ORD SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
AS ORD-PVR JUN 0.2>0 JUL 0.1>0 AUG 0.1>0
AS ORD-SFO SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
AS PDX-ANC SEP 3>4 OCT 2>3
AS PDX-DAL JUN 1.9>1.0
These appear to be 60 day suspensions
*AS PDX-DTW SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
*AS PDX-OMA SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
AS PDX-ORD SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2
AS PDX-SAN SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
AS PDX-STS SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2
AS SAN-SLC SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
AS SEA-BOI JUN 9>8
AS SEA-BUR SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
AS SEA-JFK JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3 SEP 2>3 OCT 2>3 NOV 1.1>3 DEC 1.0>2
AS SEA-PDX JUN 25>24
AS SEA-PVR SEP 0.1>0
AS SEA-SFO SEP 11>13 OCT 11>13
AS SEA-SJC SEP 7>8 OCT 7>8
AS SEA-SJD SEP 0.1>0 OCT 0.6>0.5

B6 FLL-MEX JUN 1.4>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
B6 FLL-SJU JUN 5>7 JUL 5>7 AUG 5>6
B6 TPA-SJU JUN 0.4>2 JUL 0.6>2.0 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>1.1

YOY Compare
B6 BDL-SJU NOV 1.3>1.2
B6 BOS-DCA OCT 11>10
B6 BOS-EWR NOV 5>6 DEC 4>5
B6 BOS-LAS OCT 4>3
B6 BOS-MBJ NOV 0.1>0.3
B6 BOS-MSP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3
B6 BOS-ORD OCT 3>5 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4
B6 BOS-PAP OCT 0.1>0.3
B6 BOS-PIT OCT 5>6
B6 BOS-PUJ OCT 0.3>0.4
B6 BOS-RDU NOV 5>6
B6 BOS-SDQ DEC 1.3>1.6
B6 BOS-SFO OCT 4>5 NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5
B6 BOS-STI OCT 0.7>1.0 NOV 0.7>1.0
B6 BOS-SYR OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
B6 EWR-SDQ OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
B6 EWR-SJU NOV 1.0>1.2 DEC 1.4>1.6
B6 FLL-ATL OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2
B6 FLL-AUA OCT 0.7>1.0 NOV 0.8>1.0 DEC 0.9>1.0
B6 FLL-BGI OCT 0.5>1.0
B6 FLL-BQN NOV 0.7>1.0
B6 FLL-CUN DEC 1.4>1.0
B6 FLL-MBJ OCT 1.0>1.9
B6 FLL-MDE NOV 0.8>1.0
B6 FLL-POS DEC 0.6>0.9
B6 FLL-SJU OCT 4>5 NOV 5>6 DEC 5>6
B6 FLL-SLC OCT 0>1.0
B6 FLL-STI OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
B6 FLL-SYR DEC 1.0>0.4
B6 JFK-ATL OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2
B6 JFK-AUA OCT 1.6>1.8 NOV 1.4>1.9
B6 JFK-BGI OCT 1.5>1.7
B6 JFK-BOS OCT 8>7 NOV 7>8
B6 JFK-CUN DEC 3>1.9
B6 JFK-FLL NOV 7>8
B6 JFK-KIN OCT 1.6>3 NOV 1.8>3 DEC 2>3
B6 JFK-LIR NOV 0.1>0.3 DEC 0.5>0.6
B6 JFK-MBJ OCT 1.1>1.6 NOV 1.8>2
B6 JFK-MVY OCT 0.5>0.4
B6 JFK-ORH OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
B6 JFK-PBI NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4
B6 JFK-PSE OCT 0.6>0.7
B6 JFK-PUJ NOV 2.0>3 DEC 3>2.0
B6 JFK-RSW NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
B6 JFK-SEA OCT 1.0>1.9 NOV 1.0>1.9 DEC 1.0>1.8
B6 JFK-SJU NOV 6>5 DEC 7>6
B6 JFK-SXM NOV 1.1>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0
B6 JFK-SYR OCT 3>2 NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2
B6 JFK-TPA DEC 6>5
B6 LGB-LAS OCT 7>5 NOV 7>5 DEC 7>5
B6 MCO-ATL OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
B6 MCO-BOG NOV 0.8>0.9
B6 MCO-BOS OCT 7>6 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7
B6 MCO-CUN OCT 1.0>1.1
B6 MCO-JFK OCT 7>8
B6 MCO-PAP OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0
B6 MCO-SJU NOV 5>6
B6 TPA-SJU NOV 1.6>1.0 DEC 1.8>1.0

CA IAD-PEK JUN 1.0>0.9
CA JFK-PEK JUN 2>1.9

DL ATL-EYW DEC 3>5
DL ATL-GCM DEC 1.6>1.4
DL ATL-GSO OCT 9>8
DL ATL-PHX OCT 5>6
DL ATL-SAN SEP 6>7
DL ATL-SFO SEP 7>8 OCT 7>8
DL ATL-SJU DEC 3>4
No resumption is published and route was previously year-round
**DL EWR-CDG OCT 0.8>0.6 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0
DL JFK-DFW SEP 1.6>3
DL JFK-MBJ DEC 1.1>1.3
DL JFK-MEX DEC 1.3>1.0
DL LAX-DTW SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7
DL LAX-SJC NOV 7>6
DL RDU-CUN DEC 0.1>0.4
DL SEA-ANC OCT 3>4
DL SEA-ATL SEP 8>9
DL SEA-YVR OCT 5>6
DL SLC-OMA JUL 1.7>3

*EW RSW-CGN JUL 0.1>0 AUG 0.2>0 SEP 0.1>0 OCT 0.1>0

F9 MCO-PHL JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3

Level into EWR
**IB EWR-ORY DEC 0.0>0.6

IG JFK-MXP NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.6

JJ LAS-GRU DEC 0>0.2

Replaced by UA*
*KS BOS-PQI JUL 3>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0 OCT 3>0 NOV 3>0 DEC 3>0

LA JFK-NRT NOV 0.9>0
LA MIA-MVD MAY 1.0>0.8
LA MIA-SCL JUL 3>1.9

NK BDL-MCO JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>1.8 OCT 1.0>1.7
NK EWR-MCO JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3 SEP 2>3 OCT 2>3
NK FLL-SJO AUG 1.6>1.3 SEP 1.1>1.0

O6 MIA-GRU DEC 1.0>2

PR JFK-MNL NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.5

SK BOS-CPH NOV 0.4>0.3 DEC 0.4>0
SK MIA-ARN DEC 0.2>0.3

SY BOS-MSP SEP 0.3>3
SY DFW-CUN SEP 0.1>0.5 OCT 0>0.5
SY JFK-MSP SEP 0.3>3
SY LAS-MSP SEP 0.2>3
SY LAX-MSP SEP 0.2>1.9
SY MCO-MSP OCT 0>1.5
SY MSP-CUN SEP 0.0>0.2 OCT 0>0.8
SY MSP-PDX SEP 0.1>1.0
SY MSP-PHX SEP 0>0.9
SY MSP-RSW OCT 0>1.3
SY MSP-SAN OCT 0>0.7
SY MSP-SEA SEP 0.2>1.3 OCT 0>0.9
SY MSP-SFO SEP 0.2>1.2

UA EWR-CMH SEP 8>7
UA EWR-DFW SEP 6>5
UA EWR-GSO JUL 3>4
UA EWR-ITH JUL 3>1.8 AUG 3>1.9 SEP 3>1.8
UA EWR-MSN SEP 3>2
UA EWR-ORF JUL 5>6
UA EWR-PVD JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3 SEP 4>3
UA EWR-SRQ OCT 1.0>1.9 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2
UA IAH-BRO JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
UA IAH-CLL JUL 1.9>3
UA IAH-CRP JUL 5>6
UA IAH-DSM JUL 1.1>2
UA IAH-ECP JUL 3>4
UA IAH-HDN JUN 0.1>0.0
UA IAH-RIC JUL 1.0>1.8
UA IAH-SAV JUL 1.3>3
UA IAH-VPS JUL 4>5
UA LAX-DEN OCT 8>7
UA ORD-IND JUL 8>9
UA ORD-ROC JUL 4>5
UA ORD-SDF JUL 5>6
UA SFO-ACV OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4
UA SFO-BOI NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5
UA SFO-BOS NOV 7>6 DEC 7>6
Extended
*UA SFO-BZN OCT 0.1>1.0 NOV 0>1.0
UA SFO-DEN OCT 12>11
UA SFO-FLL OCT 1.9>1.0 NOV 2>1.0 DEC 2>1.4
UA SFO-MCI OCT 3>2
UA SFO-MCO NOV 2>3 DEC 2>3
UA SFO-MFR NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5
UA SFO-MSP OCT 3>2 NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2
UA SFO-PHL OCT 3>2 NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2
UA SFO-PIT OCT 1.1>1.9
UA SFO-RDM OCT 4>5 NOV 3>5 DEC 3>5
UA SFO-RDU OCT 1.1>1.9
UA SFO-SBA NOV 7>6 DEC 7>6
UA SFO-SBP NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4
UA SFO-SLC NOV 6>5 DEC 6>5

VB IAH-MTY DEC 0>0.3
VB LAX-GDL MAY 1.0>0.8 DEC 0>0.4

That ended quickly
*VC AUS-OKC MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.9>0 SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0

VS ATL-MAN NOV 0.4>0.6 DEC 0.5>0.6
VS JFK-MAN NOV 0.6>0.7 DEC 0.5>0.7
VS LAS-LGW DEC 0.7>0.6
VS MCO-LGW DEC 1.5>1.4

WN DEN-SNA JUL 5>6
WN HOU-SNA JUL 1.0>1.9
WN LAS-SNA JUL 6>7
*WN MDW-SNA JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0
WN PHX-SNA JUL 7>8

X4 CGA-KLW MAY 0>4 JUN 0>4 JUL 0>4 AUG 0>4 SEP 0>0.8
X4 HYL-KTN MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.9
X4 KLW-KTN MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.9
X4 KPB-PPV MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.8
X4 KTB-KTN MAY 0>0.8 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.9
X4 KTN-MTM MAY 0>1.7 JUN 0>1.7 JUL 0>1.6 AUG 0>1.7

Y4 JFK-MEX NOV 1.6>1.0 DEC 1.6>1.0
Foray into leisure markets stymied
*Y4 LAX-ACA MAY 0.2>0 JUL 0.2>0 AUG 0.1>0 SEP 0.1>0 OCT 0.1>0
Y4 LAX-MEX MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.0 DEC 2>1.0
*Y4 LAX-PVR MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0
Y4 MIA-MEX MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.3>0.2 AUG 0.4>0.3 SEP 0.4>0.3 OCT 0.4>0.3 NOV 0.4>0.3 DEC 0.4>0.3
Start delayed
*Y4 SAT-MEX MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0
Y4 SEA-GDL JUL 0.5>0.7 AUG 0.4>0.6
Y4 SFO-MEX NOV 0.6>0.3 DEC 0.6>0.3

SumChristianus · Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:47 pm

MDW-SNA: Will that have runway/performance trouble on both ends? I assume B737-700 operation?

Jshank83 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:54 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
MDW-SNA: Will that have runway/performance trouble on both ends? I assume B737-700 operation?

They have run it before so they shouldn't have too many issues. It got cut due to passenger/slot issues like SNA-MCI/STL(and I think AUS). Seeing there aren't any cuts so they must have gotten some back.

Newbiepilot · Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:59 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
MDW-SNA: Will that have runway/performance trouble on both ends? I assume B737-700 operation?

SNA-MDW may have some weight restrictions, but the 737-700 is not so bad. AA uses the 737-800 on SNA-ORD and that can have some restrictions.

flyguy84 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:03 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
MDW-SNA: Will that have runway/performance trouble on both ends? I assume B737-700 operation?

Not likely. Keep in mind UA runs SNA-EWR in a 737 and doesn’t have problems usually.

flyPIT · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:04 pm

enilria wrote:
These were previously Summer/Fall only
*AC BWI-YUL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC OMA-YYZ NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC PIT-YUL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC SMF-YVR NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

Not true, at least in the case of PIT-YUL which was launched as year round.

OKCDCA · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:13 pm

enilria wrote:
That ended quickly
*VC AUS-OKC MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.9>0 SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0

WN DEN-SNA JUL 5>6
WN HOU-SNA JUL 1.0>1.9
WN LAS-SNA JUL 6>7
*WN MDW-SNA JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0
WN PHX-SNA JUL 7>8

Thanks as always enilria!

Not shocking to see AUS-OKC not get off the ground, never had a good feeling about the service actually getting started. I would be curious to know if its due to bad advance booking or lack of resources at Via...

Curious where WN got the extra SNA slots? I thought those were determined at the beginning of the year based on previous years traffic.

SANFan · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:15 pm

Interesting swap
AS DAL-SAN JUN 1.9>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 1.1>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
AS DAL-SJC JUL 1.0>1.8 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2

Indeed! AS seems to be turning its Focus City attention to SJC these days but I don't understand this move. And the "0" for DEC, DAL-SAN is a real head-scratcher; could AS really be dropping service between SAN and DAL?

AS seems to have developed a real quick trigger on some routes -- SAN's second flight too DAL is set to start on June 3 and less than a month later, they're moving it up the coast to SJC?! And ultimately dropping all service between SAN and DAL at the end of the year?

I blame most of these adjustments on what WN is doing in some of these CA markets.

bb

ahj2000 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:17 pm

No one mentioned nonstop Manila-JFK? That ought to be a long route, one I’m suprised PR loaded before announcing.

Also, I thought that LA had said São Paulo-Las Vegas would be 3w? Perhaps a change in plans?

SumChristianus · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:20 pm

RDU-CUN must be 3x a week in December on DL. High for a non-hub route to CUN?

airliner371 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:31 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
Curious where WN got the extra SNA slots? I thought those were determined at the beginning of the year based on previous years traffic.

There's a poster I'm thinking of who can definitely give you more detailed info than I can, but I'm pretty sure unused slots can get rewarded at the half year mark.

Midwestindy · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:35 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
RDU-CUN must be 3x a week in December on DL. High for a non-hub route to CUN?

MCO-CUN is 2x daily in December, and is daily from December-March

flymco753 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:38 pm

*AS PDX-DTW SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Aircraft shortage or they aren't doing well?

**DL EWR-CDG OCT 0.8>0.6 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0

Next up to bat, MCO-CDG...I hope.

Thanks enilria!

SANFan · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:50 pm

I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.

bb

wedgetail737 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:56 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
MDW-SNA: Will that have runway/performance trouble on both ends? I assume B737-700 operation?

SNA-MDW may have some weight restrictions, but the 737-700 is not so bad. AA uses the 737-800 on SNA-ORD and that can have some restrictions.

If you want to go further back, AA used to fly MD-80's on the SNA-ORD run (before they changed to 757's and later 738's) as well as AirCal running a 733 on the SNA-ORD route. I think either a 737-700 or even -800 should be too much of a problem...Maybe on a really hot day, there could be some issues.

Enilria...thanks again as always!

WWads · Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:01 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.

bb

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

Really? Then why the heck did they buy VX?

Outside of the slots, all they're getting is some leased Airbuses.

wedgetail737 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:02 pm

SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.

bb

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

SCQ83 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:09 pm

Is SAS dropping BOS?

BoeingGuy · Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:14 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
MDW-SNA: Will that have runway/performance trouble on both ends? I assume B737-700 operation?

SNA-MDW may have some weight restrictions, but the 737-700 is not so bad. AA uses the 737-800 on SNA-ORD and that can have some restrictions.

If you want to go further back, AA used to fly MD-80's on the SNA-ORD run (before they changed to 757's and later 738's) as well as AirCal running a 733 on the SNA-ORD route. I think either a 737-700 or even -800 should be too much of a problem...Maybe on a really hot day, there could be some issues.

Enilria...thanks again as always!

I think the first comment was just pointing out the interesting fact that the route will have short runways on each end. Interestingly, AQ once applied to fly SNA-DCA. That would be a similar situation.

WingsOfLove · Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:25 pm

enilria wrote:
EW RSW-CGN JUL 0.1>0 AUG 0.2>0 SEP 0.1>0 OCT 0.1>0

RSW-DUS 4x a week

nice this LTU pioneered route keeps going strong

adamh8297 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:27 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Is SAS dropping BOS?

It's going to be seasonal.

jplatts · Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:33 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.

bb

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

AS already holds 10 beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA, 4 of which are used for 2 daily nonstops in each direction between DCA and SEA, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and LAX, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and PDX, and 2 (acquired through the AS-XV merger) of which are used for 1 daily nonstop between DCA and SFO. If extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions are added at DCA, any added beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA should go to DL and WN instead of AS since both of these airlines hold fewer beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA than AS does and since both of these airlines would have opportunities to add nonstop service to additional beyond-perimeter destinations if these two airlines can acquire extra beyond-perimeter slots at DCA.

lavalampluva · Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:37 pm

Big changes with SY. Wonder what’s up with that. That MSP-BOS run is getting crowded.

tphuang · Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:56 pm

It seems to be AS made a conscious decision to choose SJC over SAN in terms of resources. From what I can see, SAN is a higher yielding station than SJC. SJC is also more heavily dominated by WN. But I think it seem like a strategic decision by AS to prioritize the bay area. I wonder if they will try add more to OAK.

wedgetail737 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:59 pm

jplatts wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.

bb

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

AS already holds 10 beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA, 4 of which are used for 2 daily nonstops in each direction between DCA and SEA, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and LAX, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and PDX, and 2 (acquired through the AS-XV merger) of which are used for 1 daily nonstop between DCA and SFO. If extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions are added at DCA, any added beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA should go to DL and WN instead of AS since both of these airlines hold fewer beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA than AS does and since both of these airlines would have opportunities to add nonstop service to additional beyond-perimeter destinations if these two airlines can acquire extra beyond-perimeter slots at DCA.

Aren't both DL and AA both exempt from having to apply for beyond-perimeter slots? Maybe not. But I know US Airways did because they flew DCA-SAN for a short time without having to get DOT approval. We'll see if any more beyond-perimeter slots are given out anytime soon.

jplatts · Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:09 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Aren't both DL and AA both exempt from having to apply for beyond-perimeter slots? Maybe not. But I know US Airways did because they flew DCA-SAN for a short time without having to get DOT approval. We'll see if any more beyond-perimeter slots are given out anytime soon.

I am unsure if this is the case with DL since DL dropped one of its DCA-SLC nonstops when it added DCA-LAX nonstop service. DL also will be serving SEA nonstop from IAD but not from DCA. DL would probably be willing to add DCA-SEA nonstop service if it can get an extra beyond-perimeter slot exemption at DCA.

C010T3 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:09 pm

enilria wrote:
No resumption is published and route was previously year-round
**DL EWR-CDG OCT 0.8>0.6 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0

That took them long enough! If they ever would like to return to the EWR-AMS/CDG market, KL/AF should do it instead.

It makes no sense for Delta to fly spoke-to-spoke, when they have a hub in the same metro area, but in a different airport.

masonh2479 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:11 pm

enilria wrote:
That ended quickly
*VC AUS-OKC MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.9>0 SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0

Just did some dummy booking on the airlines website and found no sign of the flight being dropped.

Aliqiout · Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:19 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

AS already holds 10 beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA, 4 of which are used for 2 daily nonstops in each direction between DCA and SEA, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and LAX, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and PDX, and 2 (acquired through the AS-XV merger) of which are used for 1 daily nonstop between DCA and SFO. If extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions are added at DCA, any added beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA should go to DL and WN instead of AS since both of these airlines hold fewer beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA than AS does and since both of these airlines would have opportunities to add nonstop service to additional beyond-perimeter destinations if these two airlines can acquire extra beyond-perimeter slots at DCA.

Aren't both DL and AA both exempt from having to apply for beyond-perimeter slots? Maybe not. But I know US Airways did because they flew DCA-SAN for a short time without having to get DOT approval. We'll see if any more beyond-perimeter slots are given out anytime soon.

No one is exempt. DCA-SAN was awarded in the last round of slot exemotions. AA moved DCA-SAN to DCA-LAX.

SANFan · Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:30 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.
bb

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

The current skeds -- some of which are accurate and some that are not even close, just place holders -- show that effective Nov 4 (end of DST) PDX will be back to 1 r/t to DAL, SAN will be at none, and SJC will be at daily-double. I'm assuming the other cities' flights to DAL are remaining about the same -- for now. But who knows?! Whether a true scaleback or major adjustments to the routes, who knows?

Two points that I think are important. One, AS is sure doing a LOT of reaccommodations these days from cancelled and reduced-frequency flights, with some being done on relatively short time frames. IMO, that's a good way to displease customers.

The other point is that AS is certainly in several conflicts with other cx, such as WN and I realize that AS has to chose their battles. I know that WN has added (just yesterday in fact) a 4th r/t between SAN and DAL (due, I'm sure, to AS's entry into the market in February.) And I don't see any evidence that WN is planning on backing off in this fight.

AS then responded by adding a 2nd SAN-DAL flight staring June 3. Now, less than 2 months in advance, they pulled that 2nd flight. And AS appears to be dropping SAN-DAL completely on November 4. This apparently is a battle in which AS is totally surrendering to WN. I just wonder how often AS will again chose this strategy?

It looks like AS is going with SJC-DAL instead and it will be interesting to see what WN has to say about that, and ultimately, what AS will do with that market. And with DAL in general.

I know this sort of conflict and battling goes on every day in the airline business. I'm just sorry to see this full retreat happening a major AS focus city (SAN) at which AS is supposedly growing and spending lots of effort. As of right now, in fact, AS has cancelled more routes (2) from SAN this year than they've added (1, which ironically was DAL!) This appears to me to be a strategy change which really disappoints me.

bb

enilria · Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:37 pm

flyPIT wrote:
enilria wrote:
These were previously Summer/Fall only
*AC BWI-YUL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC OMA-YYZ NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC PIT-YUL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC SMF-YVR NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

Not true, at least in the case of PIT-YUL which was launched as year round.

Say what you want, but they were not for sale beyond November until now. The entire remainder of the AC network was. So they were selling as seasonal before this load.

OKCDCA wrote:
Thanks as always enilria!

SANFan wrote:
I blame most of these adjustments on what WN is doing in some of these CA markets.

tphuang wrote:
It seems to be AS made a conscious decision to choose SJC over SAN in terms of resources. From what I can see, SAN is a higher yielding station than SJC. SJC is also more heavily dominated by WN. But I think it seem like a strategic decision by AS to prioritize the bay area. I wonder if they will try add more to OAK.

I think WN defended SAN when AS grew, so I guess AS has decided that being a second carrier in SJC markets is better than being a first carrier in SAN and having WN add the market as well. Not specific to this instance, but I think in general that is the strategy.

Another thing that may have happened is that one of the senior AS planners left to be the head planner at SY. It may be that SAN was his "baby" and now that he is gone they are neglecting it. That type of thing happens a lot with staff changes.

jplatts wrote:
AS already holds 10 beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA, 4 of which are used for 2 daily nonstops in each direction between DCA and SEA, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and LAX, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and PDX, and 2 (acquired through the AS-XV merger) of which are used for 1 daily nonstop between DCA and SFO. If extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions are added at DCA, any added beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA should go to DL and WN instead of AS since both of these airlines hold fewer beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA than AS does and since both of these airlines would have opportunities to add nonstop service to additional beyond-perimeter destinations if these two airlines can acquire extra beyond-perimeter slots at DCA.

Given SY's recent add of several AS routes, it makes more sense than ever to move the inside perimeter slots from DAL to MSP, plus they can smoothly thru from SEA/PDX creating a better schedule.

jplatts wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Aren't both DL and AA both exempt from having to apply for beyond-perimeter slots? Maybe not. But I know US Airways did because they flew DCA-SAN for a short time without having to get DOT approval. We'll see if any more beyond-perimeter slots are given out anytime soon.

I am unsure if this is the case with DL since DL dropped one of its DCA-SLC nonstops when it added DCA-LAX nonstop service. DL also will be serving SEA nonstop from IAD but not from DCA. DL would probably be willing to add DCA-SEA nonstop service if it can get an extra beyond-perimeter slot exemption at DCA.

I believe what happened is that the bigger carriers were given a pair or two pair (don't remember) of their slots that could be converted to beyond perimeter for whatever they want to fly with them.

ahj2000 wrote:
No one mentioned nonstop Manila-JFK? That ought to be a long route, one I’m suprised PR loaded before announcing.

Also, I thought that LA had said São Paulo-Las Vegas would be 3w? Perhaps a change in plans?

Good call I didn't even notice it. Damn that's long.

flymco753 wrote:
*AS PDX-DTW SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Aircraft shortage or they aren't doing well?

**DL EWR-CDG OCT 0.8>0.6 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0

Next up to bat, MCO-CDG...I hope.

Thanks enilria!

Thanks. They are having a pilot shortage. They have been cutting long-hauls to get back hours.

wedgetail737 wrote:
Enilria...thanks again as always!

WWads wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.

bb

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

Really? Then why the heck did they buy VX?

Outside of the slots, all they're getting is some leased Airbuses.

I've thought they would bail out of DAL for a long time. Not sure why they are still plugging away on it. It really has no strategic future as it can't grow big enough to mean much and by all indications it is not doing that well.

masonh2479 wrote:
enilria wrote:
That ended quickly
*VC AUS-OKC MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.9>0 SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0

Just did some dummy booking on the airlines website and found no sign of the flight being dropped.

Strange they only misfiled one route. Looking at the detail, it would appear AUS-OKC has one operation in April and then nothing else. OKC-AUS is shown as operating May to November 10. My guess is they filed an erroneous discontinue date on AUS-OKC.

Planeboy17 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:53 pm

WWads wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.

bb

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

Really? Then why the heck did they buy VX?

Outside of the slots, all they're getting is some leased Airbuses.

To keep B6 from buying VX.

enilria · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:03 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
WWads wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

Really? Then why the heck did they buy VX?

Outside of the slots, all they're getting is some leased Airbuses.

To keep B6 from buying VX.

adamblang · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:22 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
No one mentioned nonstop Manila-JFK? That ought to be a long route, one I’m suprised PR loaded before announcing.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:24 pm

WWads wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.

bb

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

Really? Then why the heck did they buy VX?

Outside of the slots, all they're getting is some leased Airbuses.

Please, just don't.

jplatts wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.

bb

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

AS already holds 10 beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA, 4 of which are used for 2 daily nonstops in each direction between DCA and SEA, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and LAX, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and PDX, and 2 (acquired through the AS-XV merger) of which are used for 1 daily nonstop between DCA and SFO. If extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions are added at DCA, any added beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA should go to DL and WN instead of AS since both of these airlines hold fewer beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA than AS does and since both of these airlines would have opportunities to add nonstop service to additional beyond-perimeter destinations if these two airlines can acquire extra beyond-perimeter slots at DCA.

So we're talking beyond perimeter?

SANFan wrote:
I know this sort of conflict and battling goes on every day in the airline business. I'm just sorry to see this full retreat happening a major AS focus city (SAN) at which AS is supposedly growing and spending lots of effort. As of right now, in fact, AS has cancelled more routes (2) from SAN this year than they've added (1, which ironically was DAL!) This appears to me to be a strategy change which really disappoints me.

bb

Brian, with respect, could you please tell me how many daily flights and cities served out of SAN by AS will exist at the end of this year, and then perhaps compare it to two or three years ago? It's weird that they can adjust some flying and you immediately go to "full retreat". It's pretty clear that they've given a LOT of attention to SAN over the past several years and some readjustments are going to happen. I agree, though, that a lot has to do with the 800lb gorilla aka Southwest.

Polot · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:25 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

AS already holds 10 beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA, 4 of which are used for 2 daily nonstops in each direction between DCA and SEA, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and LAX, 2 of which are used for 1 daily nonstop in each direction between DCA and PDX, and 2 (acquired through the AS-XV merger) of which are used for 1 daily nonstop between DCA and SFO. If extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions are added at DCA, any added beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA should go to DL and WN instead of AS since both of these airlines hold fewer beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA than AS does and since both of these airlines would have opportunities to add nonstop service to additional beyond-perimeter destinations if these two airlines can acquire extra beyond-perimeter slots at DCA.

Aren't both DL and AA both exempt from having to apply for beyond-perimeter slots? Maybe not. But I know US Airways did because they flew DCA-SAN for a short time without having to get DOT approval. We'll see if any more beyond-perimeter slots are given out anytime soon.

No one is exempt. DCA-SAN was awarded in the last round of slot exemotions. AA moved DCA-SAN to DCA-LAX.

It should also be noted that only one of UA’s, one of DL’s, and 2 (because of US) of AA’s can be moved without issues. Those slots being the last ones automatically awarded to the then US4 where they had to give up an in perimeter slot in exchange. The rest are assigned to specific routes and can’t be transferred to another route with DOT permission (which the legacies will never try to do in fear of losing the slot in a possible recompetition).

NWADTWE16 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:26 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
enilria wrote:
EW RSW-CGN JUL 0.1>0 AUG 0.2>0 SEP 0.1>0 OCT 0.1>0

RSW-DUS 4x a week

nice this LTU pioneered route keeps going strong

I guess they will be changing their airport advertising because the in airport screens stated THREE gateways in Germany from RSW, which would make the EW service Daily servicing MUC/CGN/DUS

Oh well, we could use BA/EI/OS in here, something to connect to Europe and bring the Europeans here

flyPIT · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:30 pm

enilria wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
enilria wrote:
These were previously Summer/Fall only
*AC BWI-YUL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC OMA-YYZ NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC PIT-YUL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC SMF-YVR NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

Not true, at least in the case of PIT-YUL which was launched as year round.

Say what you want, but they were not for sale beyond November until now. The entire remainder of the AC network was. So they were selling as seasonal before this load.

I'm not saying what I "want", I'm saying what is factually correct.
"Air Canada will begin service from Montreal to Pittsburgh in the spring.

The nonstop, year-round flights between the two cities......."
https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2017/11/29/air-canada-announces-flights-from-pittsburgh-to.html

PIT-YUL was for sale on Air Canada's website for the entire period. Perhaps it was not loaded in the OAG as such, but an airline's website trumps the OAG. You should know that by now.

WWads · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:32 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
WWads wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

Really? Then why the heck did they buy VX?

Outside of the slots, all they're getting is some leased Airbuses.

Please, just don't.

Nah, I think I will. It is utterly ridiculous to me that one company should be able to buy another for the purpose of destroying it in an environment that already doesn't have enough competition as is. If DOJ had known that AS had intended to merely sell off the slots (thereby effectively ending VX), I question whether they would have approved the acquisition.

B6 getting VX on the other hand really would have meant more competition, and more choice to the consumer.

EvanWSFO · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:39 pm

WWads wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that PDX-DAL is apparently not getting their 2nd flight until July now, according to the current skeds. Due to a/c delivery delays? I'm going to be keeping an eye on AS's DAL markets.

bb

It is my belief that by Fall, AS will scale way back on DAL, if not pull out and sell the slots and gates at LGA, DCA and DAL. However, it wouldn't surprise me if AS tries to change their DCA-DAL slots to beyond-perimeter slots...however, I very doubt it will be authorized.

Really? Then why the heck did they buy VX?

Outside of the slots, all they're getting is some leased Airbuses.

Seriously? They didn't buy VX for a handful of slots at DAL.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:40 pm

WWads wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
WWads wrote:

Really? Then why the heck did they buy VX?

Outside of the slots, all they're getting is some leased Airbuses.

Please, just don't.

Nah, I think I will. It is utterly ridiculous to me that one company should be able to buy another for the purpose of destroying it in an environment that already doesn't have enough competition as is. If DOJ had known that AS had intended to merely sell off the slots (thereby effectively ending VX), I question whether they would have approved the acquisition.

B6 getting VX on the other hand really would have meant more competition, and more choice to the consumer.

What have they sold?

WWads · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:43 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
WWads wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Please, just don't.

Nah, I think I will. It is utterly ridiculous to me that one company should be able to buy another for the purpose of destroying it in an environment that already doesn't have enough competition as is. If DOJ had known that AS had intended to merely sell off the slots (thereby effectively ending VX), I question whether they would have approved the acquisition.

B6 getting VX on the other hand really would have meant more competition, and more choice to the consumer.

What have they sold?

Nothing yet. As long as they continue to operate most of what VX used to I'm fine with the merger. If their intention was to merely fend off B6 and they plan to gut VX's former network, that's where I have a problem.

EvanWSFO · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:45 pm

WWads wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
WWads wrote:

Really? Then why the heck did they buy VX?

Outside of the slots, all they're getting is some leased Airbuses.

Please, just don't.

Nah, I think I will. It is utterly ridiculous to me that one company should be able to buy another for the purpose of destroying it in an environment that already doesn't have enough competition as is. If DOJ had known that AS had intended to merely sell off the slots (thereby effectively ending VX), I question whether they would have approved the acquisition.

B6 getting VX on the other hand really would have meant more competition, and more choice to the consumer.

If AS really does decide to sell off VX's assets, I won't feel bad when DL finally grinds them out of existence.

In the grand scheme of the merger, DAL has zero to do with what the DOJ "might" have done. It's a moot point. We don't know if AS will sell the slots. If they do, it might not be to WN. This whole idea you are raising is silly.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:48 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
WWads wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Please, just don't.

Nah, I think I will. It is utterly ridiculous to me that one company should be able to buy another for the purpose of destroying it in an environment that already doesn't have enough competition as is. If DOJ had known that AS had intended to merely sell off the slots (thereby effectively ending VX), I question whether they would have approved the acquisition.

B6 getting VX on the other hand really would have meant more competition, and more choice to the consumer.

What have they sold?

And to add, can you point to where VX flew that there wasn't already plenty of competition? In fact, more than enough competition? I get where you're coming from - you want things to stay the same rather than see options reduced. However, VX had other plans. They didn't have the desire to keep going so put themselves up for sale. AS and B6 had a bidding war and AS won. If you are mad about that, take it up with VX or B6. They're the ones that let you down. AS is still just getting going as a combined carrier and we already have the future told here on a.net. It's anti-competitive, they're selling off "the slots" and overpaid for some Airbii, etc.

If AS pulls down LGA, DAL, etc, what does it really matter in the end? Will the world stop turning without their minor presence at those stations? It sure didn't change when VX entered. How many flights/day did VX have at LGA and DCA? How many do AA/DL have at those stations? How many flights did VX have at DAL? How many do WN have? At the end of the day, if it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense. VX didn't sell out because LGA, DCA, and DAL were gold mines. Arguably, AS has a modestly better chance at success in those markets just from being a larger carrier with more breadth of scale. I'd also argue, though, that they need those stations less than VX did so it might make sense to see them go.

Regardless, this has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum on here. This deal was done two years ago. At some point, we need to get over it.

NWADTWE16 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:50 pm

The DOJ knows very well the intentions of these so called "mergers", they flat out DO NOT CARE about competition of the traveling public.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:50 pm

WWads wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
WWads wrote:

Nah, I think I will. It is utterly ridiculous to me that one company should be able to buy another for the purpose of destroying it in an environment that already doesn't have enough competition as is. If DOJ had known that AS had intended to merely sell off the slots (thereby effectively ending VX), I question whether they would have approved the acquisition.

B6 getting VX on the other hand really would have meant more competition, and more choice to the consumer.

What have they sold?

Nothing yet.

Cool.

Thenoflyzone · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:52 pm

flyPIT wrote:
enilria wrote:
These were previously Summer/Fall only
*AC BWI-YUL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC OMA-YYZ NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC PIT-YUL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*AC SMF-YVR NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

Not true, at least in the case of PIT-YUL which was launched as year round.

They were all launched as year round.

Press release from last November.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017-11 ... pring-2018

PlanesNTrains · Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:52 pm

Enilria, you keep claiming that AS has a pilot shortage yet we also had an Alaska employee (pilot?) a few weeks back saying the opposite. I'm just wondering where you're hearing this from? I'm not saying it isn't true but it also can be just a mantra that has continued past it's time.

jonair8 · Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:22 pm

I would be willing to bet that DAL-LGA/DCA is not a market AS expects to be in the long run. They acquired it from the merger, and are probably evaluating how important it is to the current network right now. It is much cheaper to have OO fly the routes than a VX Airbus and easier to fill a 76 seater. As far as the passengers, they are experiencing a definite culture shock because all these flights now lack all of the creature comforts that VX was known for. These are the first routes to change from VX to OO. When VX created this network, it couldn't have been too profitable either.

AWACSooner · Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:33 pm

enilria wrote:
That ended quickly
*VC AUS-OKC MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.9>0 SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0

Ended quickly? The service hasn't even started yet...

Via Air won't last...

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