Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

jrkmsp · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:18 pm

http://m.startribune.com/sun-country-pa ... 479814983/

Heather Garnett of Minneapolis, along with her husband and three children, were among hundreds of Minnesota travelers whose flights home from Los Cabos in Mexico were canceled Saturday because of the snow.

But they were doubly stranded when they learned that Sun Country Airlines had ended its season Saturday and had no more flights — outbound or returning — from Los Cabos.

Other passengers who were supposed to head home from Mazatlan are in the same boat. The airline's calendar shows its next flight to or from Los Cabos on June 29; no flights at all are listed for Mazatlan.

Passengers are not happy and are venting their frustration on the airline's Facebook page and Twitter account. Sun Country said the flights were the last of the season so "we do not have another flight to reaccommodate passengers on."

stl07 · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:21 pm

Weather sucks but this could have been handled better. Its an assumed risk of taking a smaller carrier

FlyingElvii · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:22 pm

And how, exactlt is this Sun Country's problem? Did a tour operator sell seats for flights that did not exist?

jrkmsp · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:26 pm

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FlyingElvii wrote:
And how, exactlt is this Sun Country's problem? Did a tour operator sell seats for flights that did not exist?

Sun Country had flights canceled for the snow, and chose not to find a way to accommodate its passengers. It’s not illegal, but it’s certainly distasteful.

RJNUT · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:27 pm

caught up in a "perfect storm"

I would buy insurance if I book off brand airlines, but I was in the " BIZ" almost my entire career!.

stl07 · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:29 pm

Weather sucks but this could have been handled better. Its an assumed risk of taking a smaller carrier

FlyHappy · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:30 pm

discussed a fair bit here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1391641

but yes, SY really dropped the ball. Not much more to the story - they really did just decide not to make much effort to return the pax due to cancelation of last flight of the season from from SJD and MZT.

stl07 · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:32 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Weather sucks but this could have been handled better. Its an assumed risk of taking a smaller carrier

It's not really the size of the carrier that is the problem. I have had canceled flights on much smaller carriers that added flights or intelrlined their customers forget them where they were going. It is the ULCC model that is the problem, although we might not be hearing the whole story here.

But on a larger ULCC carrier one could be accommodated. For example, if F9 canceled CVG-CUN they could route the passengers via DEN the next day. SY doesn't have that luxury.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:32 pm

This is bush-league, amateur-hour, Mickey-Mouse customer service and IRROPS. No wonder ULCCs get a bad rap.

I find it hard to believe, with the massive disruption in MSP and boatloads of domestic flights cancelled that SY couldn't find a way to operate a rescue/recovery flight to get their customers out of there on Sunday or Monday.

Good way to ensure these people will never fly SY again and get some serious negative PR.

Its one thing "to find your own way, or be on your own" when you are in a domestic market where there are other air carriers and driving/rental cars are feasible, or where some portion of the passengers might be at home originating a trip. Its another when you are in Mexico, where alternative options are limited, and everyone is wanting to return home.

Aliqiout · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:34 pm

stl07 wrote:
Weather sucks but this could have been handled better. Its an assumed risk of taking a smaller carrier

It's not really the size of the carrier that is the problem. I have had canceled flights on much smaller carriers that added flights or interlined their customers to get them where they were going. It is the ULCC model that is the problem, although we might not be hearing the whole story here.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:42 pm

DL should go and fly a flight down there on Monday as a PR move and offer similar-priced fares just to slap SY in the face.

Q · Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:59 pm

Why can't SY where USA airport can't go to MSP for cancel flight. Why can't SY fly ferry to Los Cabos to pick it up? SY can fly to MSP close nearby like RST or DBQ or DSM stay there for a few hours or overnight then snow is clear up fly back to MSP that's it. How stupid SY management are?

Q

stlgph · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:09 pm

Q wrote:
Why can't SY where USA airport can't go to MSP for cancel flight. Why can't SY fly ferry to Los Cabos to pick it up? SY can fly to MSP close nearby like RST or DBQ or DSM stay there for a few hours or overnight then snow is clear up fly back to MSP that's it. How stupid SY management are?

Q

No room in the fleet in the current schedule.

If they send a ferry flight then you disrupt say 800 people instead of 400.

Elementalism · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:15 pm

I am disappointed in the turn Sun Country has taken with new leadership. I have flown them quite a bit. But was really turned off coming back from Phoenix in Feb when experiencing their new seat layout. Now this crap. And the CEO response is just ridiculous and callous.

I have one more flight with Sun Country on May 10th to Savannah GA. But after that will be a tough sell to hop on them again.

aemoreira1981 · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:16 pm

Why not charter lift to bring the passengers home? This is where those Swift (Eastern) 767s could be useful.

Elementalism · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:17 pm

stlgph wrote:
Q wrote:
Why can't SY where USA airport can't go to MSP for cancel flight. Why can't SY fly ferry to Los Cabos to pick it up? SY can fly to MSP close nearby like RST or DBQ or DSM stay there for a few hours or overnight then snow is clear up fly back to MSP that's it. How stupid SY management are?

Q

No room in the fleet in the current schedule.

If they send a ferry flight then you disrupt say 800 people instead of 400.

If they are running their schedule that tight. This will happen again. And it isnt like there may be a 757 or two for rent on the same airport from a competitor to go get these people. (Deltas charter 757s I have seen at Signature Aviation).

Super80Fan · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:21 pm

I give them a couple of years at most before they are bought out by someone or they cease operations and WN or AS picks up their 737's.

FlyHappy · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:24 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
I give them a couple of years at most before they are bought out by someone or they cease operations and WN or AS picks up their 737's.

Planes are leased, nothing physical of great value. The greatest value is a pretty loyal base of MSP fliers who will quickly evaporate with horrible bean-counting decisions like yesterdays. I am so disappointed.

32andBelow · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:36 pm

Horrendous service by SY if true. If you cancel your last flight of the year due to WX, add a friggen extra.

SFOtoORD · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:38 pm

stlgph wrote:
Q wrote:
Why can't SY where USA airport can't go to MSP for cancel flight. Why can't SY fly ferry to Los Cabos to pick it up? SY can fly to MSP close nearby like RST or DBQ or DSM stay there for a few hours or overnight then snow is clear up fly back to MSP that's it. How stupid SY management are?

Q

No room in the fleet in the current schedule.

If they send a ferry flight then you disrupt say 800 people instead of 400.

Tough luck for SY because they need to suck it up and fix the situation. Stranding passengers in a foreign country is unacceptable. If they need to charter a plane then they should. It’s not as cut and dry as you make it.

stlgph · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:38 pm

To the person in charge it is.

http://www.startribune.com/sun-country- ... 479814983/

Bricker: "If people choose to fly a different flight, then we're refunding what they paid to us. We do everything we can for the passengers. If there's not a flight out, there's not a flight out."

32andBelow · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:41 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Q wrote:
Why can't SY where USA airport can't go to MSP for cancel flight. Why can't SY fly ferry to Los Cabos to pick it up? SY can fly to MSP close nearby like RST or DBQ or DSM stay there for a few hours or overnight then snow is clear up fly back to MSP that's it. How stupid SY management are?

Q

No room in the fleet in the current schedule.

If they send a ferry flight then you disrupt say 800 people instead of 400.

Tough luck for SY because they need to suck it up and fix the situation. Stranding passengers in a foreign country is unacceptable. If they need to charter a plane then they should. It’s not as cut and dry as you make it.

There is just no way that is true. There is always a way to make it work. If it means pushing back a heavy check 1 day, then you do it. If it means chartering a plane, then you do it. They still get to pull the coupons on a charter or a reaccom so it's not a total loss.

Midwestindy · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:44 pm

As if SY needed more negative PR lol.....

Funny thing is one of SY's planes was (might still be) parked outside of the AAR hangar in IND for a large chunk of this week waiting for MX. If they had pilots in the area, that plane could have been used for the return flight

freakyrat · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:51 pm

Q wrote:
Why can't SY where USA airport can't go to MSP for cancel flight. Why can't SY fly ferry to Los Cabos to pick it up? SY can fly to MSP close nearby like RST or DBQ or DSM stay there for a few hours or overnight then snow is clear up fly back to MSP that's it. How stupid SY management are?

Q

Passengers need to go to an airport with US Customs.

SFOtoORD · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:56 pm

stlgph wrote:
To the person in charge it is.

http://www.startribune.com/sun-country- ... 479814983/

Bricker: "If people choose to fly a different flight, then we're refunding what they paid to us. We do everything we can for the passengers. If there's not a flight out, there's not a flight out."

I hope they continue to get lambasted in the media. They deserve it. And this proves yet again how soulless private equity firms like Apollo are. Not that it needed proving.

MO11 · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:56 pm

stl07 wrote:
But on a larger ULCC carrier one could be accommodated. For example, if F9 canceled CVG-CUN they could route the passengers via DEN the next day. SY doesn't have that luxury.

There would never be 180 seats available on the DEN connection on the following day. It would take several days to accommodate.

freakyrat · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:58 pm

SY also had a flight from PHX in the air and returned the flight to PHX when MSP closed. Airports ike ORD and SBN were open and the flight could have easily been diverted to a close airport to MSP.

MO11 · Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
As if SY needed more negative PR lol.....

Funny thing is one of SY's planes was (might still be) parked outside of the AAR hangar in IND for a large chunk of this week waiting for MX. If they had pilots in the area, that plane could have been used for the return flight

That airplane is returned to lessor.

AWACSooner · Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:03 am

FlyHappy wrote:
discussed a fair bit here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1391641

but yes, SY really dropped the ball. Not much more to the story - they really did just decide not to make much effort to return the pax due to cancelation of last flight of the season from from SJD and MZT.

That's nice, but this is defintely deserving of its own thread...

Midwestindy · Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:07 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
stlgph wrote:
To the person in charge it is.

http://www.startribune.com/sun-country- ... 479814983/

Bricker: "If people choose to fly a different flight, then we're refunding what they paid to us. We do everything we can for the passengers. If there's not a flight out, there's not a flight out."

I hope they continue to get lambasted in the media. They deserve it. And this proves yet again how soulless private equity firms like Apollo are. Not that it needed proving.

Quite sad what SY has done to themselves as of late, they were once adored and now they have alienated a large chunk of their FF base......

tys777 · Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:07 am

freakyrat wrote:
SY also had a flight from PHX in the air and returned the flight to PHX when MSP closed. Airports ike ORD and SBN were open and the flight could have easily been diverted to a close airport to MSP.

And then what? Make them sleep in the SBN terminal while the crew times out until the next day?

Better to keep where the flight started and you have ops familiar with the airline then end up at a random airport just because it is closer.

MSPSXMFLIER · Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:09 am

I think that loyal base of SY fliers will more than welcome jetBlue into the MSP market next month. I can't believe that SY couldn't find a better way to handle this unfortunate and unexpected event. New ownership and management of SY are not off to a good start with passengers. It might be wise to use up those banked UFly miles I've got before too long. if SY does fold up, I'd like to see jetBlue be the airline to pick up the gates and the base of fliers.

FlyHappy wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
I give them a couple of years at most before they are bought out by someone or they cease operations and WN or AS picks up their 737's.

Planes are leased, nothing physical of great value. The greatest value is a pretty loyal base of MSP fliers who will quickly evaporate with horrible bean-counting decisions like yesterdays. I am so disappointed.

Indy · Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:09 am

Too bad carriers no longer need DOT approval to fly US-MEX. If so I'd hope the DOT would revoke SY's route authority because of this stunt. I hope the traveling public pays close attention to this story and remembers it the next time they consider booking a flight with SY.

FlyHappy · Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:28 am

MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
I think that loyal base of SY fliers will more than welcome jetBlue into the MSP market next month. I can't believe that SY couldn't find a better way to handle this unfortunate and unexpected event. New ownership and management of SY are not off to a good start with passengers. It might be wise to use up those banked UFly miles I've got before too long. if SY does fold up, I'd like to see jetBlue be the airline to pick up the gates and the base of fliers.

yeah well, unfortunately if we're honest with ourselves, any destination other than Boston or Bermuda on JetBlue isn't likely to be appealing

That's why we fly SY, for the non-stops and T2, no?

Post-sale, I was willing to overlook the service reductions in J, the Digi elimination in Y, and I'm not bothered by the general un-bundling. But the callous abandonment of package vacationers in a foreign country is unconscionable. I just checked my UFly.... looks like I've got ticket to burn up!

Midwestindy · Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:33 am

sw733 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Airports ike ORD and SBN were open and the flight could have easily been diverted to a close airport to MSP.

I personally am in disagreement with this. Diverting back to origin makes more sense to me. At least then you have some people who are home. Divert to somewhere that isn't the origin or the destination and everyone is stranded.

If only it were that simple, have a look at the weather for MSP during that time

http://www.weau.com/content/news/Minnea ... 90343.html

https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather- ... s/70004683

sw733 · Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:33 am

freakyrat wrote:
Airports ike ORD and SBN were open and the flight could have easily been diverted to a close airport to MSP.

I personally am in disagreement with this. Diverting back to origin makes more sense to me. At least then you have some people who are home. Divert to somewhere that isn't the origin or the destination and everyone is stranded.

wjcandee · Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:49 am

So for what it's worth, I understand that Sun Country may not have had the ability to send in another one of its own aircraft, but they certainly could have called for subservice. Back when I used to fly SunJet back and forth from DFW-EWR, their 2-DC9 and 1 MD80 captive airline occasionally had IROPS that resulted in their inability to cover a flight. But I never had a flight cancel on me. If SunJet Airlines couldn't do the flight, I would arrive at the gate to find a Sun Pacific 727, an all-white MD80 (from some shady 2-plane carrier whose name I forgot but which the FAA shut down for overweight violations), or even a United 737 sitting at the gate. They were meticulous about obtaining subservice when needed, and that's how they developed a reputation as a reasonably-reliable, dirt-cheap operation. It was known as The Dancer Airline, for all the Dallas strippers who would fly it to NYC for a week or two at a time to make $$. The women always had these giant Rubbermaid tubs (presumably of costumes?) coming down the chute in baggage claim with a huge thud as they hit the belt.

tys777 · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:09 am

hz747300 wrote:
Just for the PR alone, it would be worth their while to charter a Swift air or Prime air plane or two to sort this out.

Prime Air? Going to load them on pallets and ship them back?

slcdeltarumd11 · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:09 am

Delta has such a PR opportunity.

Fly a plane down there and offer them $199 plus taxes to get home. The MSP media will love it and will be very cheap publicity! additionally they will win over some flyers to be loyal to delta forever.

hz747300 · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:11 am

Just for the PR alone, it would be worth their while to charter a Swift air or Prime air plane or two to sort this out.

usflyer msp · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:17 am

hz747300 wrote:
Just for the PR alone, it would be worth their while to charter a Swift air or Prime air plane or two to sort this out.

Yes, they are deservedly getting ripped apart in the media up here and the tone deaf CEO's comments did not help. The money they saved by not doing a subservice is going to be lost by this PR fiasco. They need to be on the phone with Interjet, Aeromexico, or VivaAerobus working something out NOW...

ual763 · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:18 am

stlgph wrote:
Q wrote:
Why can't SY where USA airport can't go to MSP for cancel flight. Why can't SY fly ferry to Los Cabos to pick it up? SY can fly to MSP close nearby like RST or DBQ or DSM stay there for a few hours or overnight then snow is clear up fly back to MSP that's it. How stupid SY management are?

Q

No room in the fleet in the current schedule.

If they send a ferry flight then you disrupt say 800 people instead of 400.

Isn’t a good portion of Sun Country’s fleet meant for Charter ops? I find it hard to believe “all” of their planes are called for. Even if they don’t have a plane available the next day, make a trip in two days or something and put your customers in a hotel that night. Surely, they’ll have at least 1 backup plane? Especially on the charter side of the business.

FlyHappy · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:27 am

ual763 wrote:

Isn’t a good portion of Sun Country’s fleet meant for Charter ops? I find it hard to believe “all” of their planes are called for. Even if they don’t have a plane available the next day, make a trip in two days or something and put your customers in a hotel that night. Surely, they’ll have at least 1 backup plane? Especially on the charter side of the business.

Not really. They only have around 26 of their own planes , extremely doubtful that any are reserved for charter ops. I can accept their lack of lift when their only hub gets unusable, but its the gutting/outsourcing of the call center/customer service + the penny-wise , pound foolish executive decision that puts us here.

MSPSXMFLIER · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:29 am

If we're honest with ourselves? Come on, jetBlue needs to get established here just like Southwest did and now look at the destinations you can take from MSP on Southwest. I fly SY for the first class seating, non-stops and for being able to leave out of T2, but who knows how much longer that will be true for me?

FlyHappy wrote:
MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
I think that loyal base of SY fliers will more than welcome jetBlue into the MSP market next month. I can't believe that SY couldn't find a better way to handle this unfortunate and unexpected event. New ownership and management of SY are not off to a good start with passengers. It might be wise to use up those banked UFly miles I've got before too long. if SY does fold up, I'd like to see jetBlue be the airline to pick up the gates and the base of fliers.

yeah well, unfortunately if we're honest with ourselves, any destination other than Boston or Bermuda on JetBlue isn't likely to be appealing That's why we fly SY, for the non-stops and T2, no?

Post-sale, I was willing to overlook the service reductions in J, the Digi elimination in Y, and I'm not bothered by the general un-bundling. But the callous abandonment of package vacationers in a foreign country is unconscionable. I just checked my UFly.... looks like I've got ticket to burn up!

FlyHappy · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:35 am

MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
If we're honest with ourselves? Come on, jetBlue needs to get established here just like Southwest did and now look at the destinations you can take from MSP on Southwest. I fly SY for the first class seating, non-stops and for being able to leave out of T2, but who knows how much longer that will be true for me?

Hey, you're preaching to the choir!
I'll be happy to have JetBlue grow into MSP, but given their east coast focus, I question how many no-stop destinations they would ever chose to offer... here's to hoping.
Oh, and WN's service in MSP isn't exactly comprehensive..... I'm guessing you don't fly them too often either

tys777 · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:35 am

MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
If we're honest with ourselves? Come on, jetBlue needs to get established here just like Southwest did and now look at the destinations you can take from MSP on Southwest. I fly SY for the first class seating, non-stops and for being able to leave out of T2, but who knows how much longer that will be true for me?

What are you expecting from B6? MSP is most likely never going to be more than a few destinations. Hardly an alternative to all the Mexico/Beach traffic that SY carries today. SY has huge brand awareness(In MN) that they are completing torching right now, but most people in the state have no idea who B6 is and changing that won't happen over night. Maybe B6 can take over the SY booth at the state fair, I doubt that is in the budget anymore.

ual763 · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:46 am

FlyHappy wrote:
ual763 wrote:

Isn’t a good portion of Sun Country’s fleet meant for Charter ops? I find it hard to believe “all” of their planes are called for. Even if they don’t have a plane available the next day, make a trip in two days or something and put your customers in a hotel that night. Surely, they’ll have at least 1 backup plane? Especially on the charter side of the business.

Not really. They only have around 26 of their own planes , extremely doubtful that any are reserved for charter ops. I can accept their lack of lift when their only hub gets unusable, but its the gutting/outsourcing of the call center/customer service + the penny-wise , pound foolish executive decision that puts us here.

They do have quite a few charter ops. Lots of college sports teams. I know North Dakota used them extensively when I was up there.

Jamake1 · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:49 am

This is where unfettered capitalism gets in the way of doing the right thing. There needs to be consumer protections in place for situations like this...as there are in Europe. If an airline takes your money and flies you to your holiday destination, they should be legally bound to bring you back. Period.

MO11 · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:51 am

Jamake1 wrote:
This is where unfettered capitalism gets in the way of doing the right thing. There needs to be consumer protections in place for situations like this...as there are in Europe. If an airline takes your money and flies you to your holiday destination, they should be legally bound to bring you back. Period.

That rule does apply to charters, but not for scheduled flights. The current US government is rolling back existing consumer regulations...

stlgph · Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:58 am

ual763 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Q wrote:
Why can't SY where USA airport can't go to MSP for cancel flight. Why can't SY fly ferry to Los Cabos to pick it up? SY can fly to MSP close nearby like RST or DBQ or DSM stay there for a few hours or overnight then snow is clear up fly back to MSP that's it. How stupid SY management are?

Q

No room in the fleet in the current schedule.

If they send a ferry flight then you disrupt say 800 people instead of 400.

Isn’t a good portion of Sun Country’s fleet meant for Charter ops? I find it hard to believe “all” of their planes are called for. Even if they don’t have a plane available the next day, make a trip in two days or something and put your customers in a hotel that night. Surely, they’ll have at least 1 backup plane? Especially on the charter side of the business.

I said it once, I'll say it again: no room in the current schedule with the available fleet.

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