boeing737max
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Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:45 am

Hello everyone.
This has been a question that's on my mind for a while now!
Why are ex-US Airways A321's, A320's, A319's, and even A330s being operated strictly out of previous US Airways hubs? (Of course, excluding the soon to be retired A330-300, E-190, and ETOPS and transcontinental configured A321's.) It just seems odd in 2018 for American not to combine such aircraft that are pretty much the same. For example, after CO and UA merged, we saw sUA 763's being added into Trans-Atlantic routes from EWR. UA also operates sUA 772's based out of EWR. (Recent example being domestic 772's running EWR-DUB flights) sCO aircraft such as the 738, 739, and 753s are also operated from sUA hubs along with sCO hubs.. UA also has A319's and A320's that operate out of all former sCO hubs.(Excluding Guam) I first thought maintenance and crew bases would be a reason, but American operates A319's and A321's out of DFW, MIA, etc.. So why not combine previous ex-US Airways Airbus aircraft?
 
slowrambler
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:00 pm

My understanding is the LUS aircraft still need to be operated with LUS flight attendants, so their itineraries touch LUS hubs. That said they can and do operate flights like SFO-DFW which aren't traditional US Airways routes.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:03 pm

The A333s are staying through 2020.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:16 pm

Because AA still has not been able to merge the two companies completely.
 
lowfareair
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:40 pm

Full crew integration isn't until October 2018, so until then, aircraft are usually staying in their respective legacy hub, with some exceptions (like the 767s coming to PHL this summer).
 
C010T3
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:47 pm

Despite the fact that UA indeed started mixing operations before crew integration, I believe that the integration itself from a training perspective was much simpler at UA. CO already operated 767 and 777. There was extensive fleet commonality, whereas that is not the case in the merged AA.
 
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chepos
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:00 pm

DFW sees a few LUS 321S operations, and LUS 319 flights. Not just to LUS hubs but to outstations as well. Vice versa as well, LUS hubs see quite a few LAA ops. Once FOI takes place in OCT (if everything stays on track) you will see much more metal swapping.
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Antarius
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:07 pm

chepos wrote:
DFW sees a few LUS 321S operations, and LUS 319 flights. Not just to LUS hubs but to outstations as well. Vice versa as well, LUS hubs see quite a few LAA ops. Once FOI takes place in OCT (if everything stays on track) you will see much more metal swapping.


I like it the way it is. Now I know what aircraft to avoid based on where the connection is.
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UpNAWAy
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:10 pm

PHX gets the AA B737 now but as others have said its about FA crews. Once they are integrated the FA's can fly from anywhere and be based anywhere (Their bid can hold). This was all a technology issue.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:10 pm

chepos wrote:
DFW sees a few LUS 321S operations, and LUS 319 flights. Not just to LUS hubs but to outstations as well. Vice versa as well, LUS hubs see quite a few LAA ops. Once FOI takes place in OCT (if everything stays on track) you will see much more metal swapping.


CMH-DFW sometimes has one flight on an LUS A319.
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gwrudolph
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:22 pm

UA very wisely setup sub domiciles for the FAs to overcome some of the operational issues associated with the delayed workgroup integrations. So, for example, there is an sCO sub-domicile in IAD so that they could easily staff the sCO aircraft from a legacy sUA hub. I wonder if AA did or didn't do the same
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:30 pm

Will there be some delay of LUS FA's on LAA aircraft, especially 737, 767 & 777 variants because they have to get certified. Also will be interested to see if AA swaps the 330's to LHR out for 777's to have a single fleet in LHR. There might be some ground / maintenance benefits to that kind of commonality.
 
deltaffindfw
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:36 pm

I was in CLT last week and saw probably 6-7 737s. You routinely see a decent number LUS A321s and A319s in DFW. Not just flights to LUS hubs.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:54 pm

Even so I've seen plenty of LUS A321's operating non LUS routes out of DFW and I've seen plenty of LAA 737's operating non LAA routes out of CLT.
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qcpilotxf
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:55 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
Will there be some delay of LUS FA's on LAA aircraft, especially 737, 767 & 777 variants because they have to get certified. Also will be interested to see if AA swaps the 330's to LHR out for 777's to have a single fleet in LHR. There might be some ground / maintenance benefits to that kind of commonality.


The fleets are becoming common at the US Hubs, not the International ones. Like 787s in ORD, 777s in MIA, and 330s in PHL. LHR is equipped to handle all of these because it is configured as an outstation and not a hub, most aircraft operate as turns.

While i would not be surprised to see the 777 at PHL, it is unlikely that would be the reason for LHR to switch to the 777
 
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Polot
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:58 pm

The narrow bodies actually get mixed quite a bit. The A330 fleet, especially the A333s (which are already restricted in what missions they can do), frankly isn’t big enough for extensive operations out of LAA hubs. More cost effective to just keep them at their LUS bases. The LUS hubs don’t generate enough international traffic to require more than what is available with the A330 fleet (hence why US and now AA always had extensive domestic/Caribbean operations with them expesically in the TATL low season).
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:11 pm

It's probably more effort than it's worth to integrate the long haul fleets. Look at United, even they still operate 777-224/ERs out of EWR and IAH and 777-222/ERs out of ORD, DEN, SFO, and LAX. Only Delta has spread the long haul fleet around well, moving more NW A330s out of DTW and MSP and into ATL, JFK, SLC, etc.
The biggest changes come when they receive new aircraft after the mergers and can place them wherever they please.
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FSDan
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:13 pm

As others have said, the LUS airbus narrowbody fleet operates numerous flights from LAX, DFW, and ORD. And there are plenty of 738s in PHX and CLT (and some in PHL).
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Boof02671
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:17 pm

Polot wrote:
The narrow bodies actually get mixed quite a bit. The A330 fleet, especially the A333s (which are already restricted in what missions they can do), frankly isn’t big enough for extensive operations out of LAA hubs. More cost effective to just keep them at their LUS bases. The LUS hubs don’t generate enough international traffic to require more than what is available with the A330 fleet (hence why US and now AA always had extensive domestic/Caribbean operations with them expesically in the TATL low season).

Last year they flew the A330 from ORD to DUB
 
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Runway28L
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:23 pm

We currently have L-US A319s and A320s operating our PIT-DFW flights alongside MD-80s. Last month, we had a 738 on CLT-PIT.

I remember looking at FR24 last night and seeing DFW-JAX on a L-US A320 and DFW-BOS on a L-US A321 while also seeing a 738 operating CLT-STL/IAH.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:24 pm

It took (UA) and is taking (AA) a lot of time to rationalize aircraft over routes because of delays in achieving integrated pilot and FA work groups. It was something HP + US never achieved, actually.
 
F27500
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:34 pm

Though, HP and US never really merged before in all those years, so I wouldn't expect this one to go quickly either
 
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FA9295
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:14 pm

I've seen some of ex-US Airways A321s on a good handful of DFW routes, such as LAX/SFO/SAN/PDX/SEA to and from DFW. A good amount of routes out of PHX are also from the AA Boeing 737-800 jets.
Next flights:
PDX-LAX-MIA (American)
MCO-DFW-PDX (American)
 
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FA9295
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:15 pm

Also, AA is adding a second daily CLT-PDX flight with the Boeing 737-800.
Next flights:
PDX-LAX-MIA (American)
MCO-DFW-PDX (American)
 
AA321T
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:40 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
Will there be some delay of LUS FA's on LAA aircraft, especially 737, 767 & 777 variants because they have to get certified. Also will be interested to see if AA swaps the 330's to LHR out for 777's to have a single fleet in LHR. There might be some ground / maintenance benefits to that kind of commonality.

LUS flight attendants have been maintaining their 737 and 767 qualifications so they are ready to go, they opened up MD80, 777, and 787 training to LUS and A330 and E190 training for LAA last month.
 
gwrudolph
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:30 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
It's probably more effort than it's worth to integrate the long haul fleets. Look at United, even they still operate 777-224/ERs out of EWR and IAH and 777-222/ERs out of ORD, DEN, SFO, and LAX. Only Delta has spread the long haul fleet around well, moving more NW A330s out of DTW and MSP and into ATL, JFK, SLC, etc.
The biggest changes come when they receive new aircraft after the mergers and can place them wherever they please.


That's not entirely true for UA. They operate 777-222s and 767-322s out of EWR and IAH. They also operate The bulk of their 757-324s from mostly sUA hubs ORD, DEN, and SFO. Similarly, there are plenty of 319/320s in IAH and EWR all despite integration of the FA workgroups
 
strfyr51
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:51 pm

UA tries to put the Right airplane on the right route no matter where it came from. Operations does all the plane assignments and it's based on capability and Loads which is why you'll find sometimes a different plane on a flight depending the day, the time, and the load
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:56 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
UA tries to put the Right airplane on the right route no matter where it came from. Operations does all the plane assignments and it's based on capability and Loads which is why you'll find sometimes a different plane on a flight depending the day, the time, and the load


I know UA has a lot of short-hauls out of IAH on Airbus narrowbodies. I think I remember that shortly after the merger UA decided to move some of more of DEN's long-hauls to ex-CO Boeing narrowbodies while moving more of IAH's short-hauls to Airbus narrowbodies.
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cm642
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:10 pm

Someone said that they recently opened up crew training for the MD80's, 777's and 787's to legacy US crews and a lot of them that have signed up or are training on them are predominately PHX based. The 777's and 787's make sense since they'll be around for awhile but I see no point in the MD's since they'll all be gone by next year. I know there was talk of opening a 737 base at PHX but of course that won't happen until full crew integration in October.
 
boeing737max
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Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:57 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
It's probably more effort than it's worth to integrate the long haul fleets. Look at United, even they still operate 777-224/ERs out of EWR and IAH and 777-222/ERs out of ORD, DEN, SFO, and LAX. Only Delta has spread the long haul fleet around well, moving more NW A330s out of DTW and MSP and into ATL, JFK, SLC, etc.
The biggest changes come when they receive new aircraft after the mergers and can place them wherever they please.

What is the main purpose of UA not combining the sUA 777-222/ERS and sCO 777-224/ERS? Also, I have seen sUA 777-222/ERS operating out of EWR before. Not a common sight though.
 
c933103
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:10 pm

F27500 wrote:
Though, HP and US never really merged before in all those years, so I wouldn't expect this one to go quickly either

Was that sorted out after merger with AA?
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:10 pm

Interestingly, UA still operates an Airbus pilot base out of EWR despite EWR seeing very few UA Airbus flights nowadays. I wonder why does UA continue to maintain the base.
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alasizon
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:14 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
UA tries to put the Right airplane on the right route no matter where it came from. Operations does all the plane assignments and it's based on capability and Loads which is why you'll find sometimes a different plane on a flight depending the day, the time, and the load


"Operations" doesn't decide what fleet types operate a given route on a given day, that's done way in advance by Network & Capacity Planning (or whatever UA's respective area is called). During IRROPs, the folks in the NOC may be the ones that are handling the changes day-of to keep the flights running.

cm642 wrote:
Someone said that they recently opened up crew training for the MD80's, 777's and 787's to legacy US crews and a lot of them that have signed up or are training on them are predominately PHX based. The 777's and 787's make sense since they'll be around for awhile but I see no point in the MD's since they'll all be gone by next year. I know there was talk of opening a 737 base at PHX but of course that won't happen until full crew integration in October.


Actually the crew base in PHX was on hold due to available space as I recall. Nothing would stop AA from opening an LAA 737 crew base in PHX today other than facility constraints.
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Rookie87
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:21 pm

c933103 wrote:
F27500 wrote:
Though, HP and US never really merged before in all those years, so I wouldn't expect this one to go quickly either

Was that sorted out after merger with AA?



Pilots have been merged for 1-2 years already if not longer, I can’t recall.
FAs will all be merged this October. So how long since the merger announcement has it been? 5-6 years? It’s about wrapped up.
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:22 pm

c933103 wrote:
F27500 wrote:
Though, HP and US never really merged before in all those years, so I wouldn't expect this one to go quickly either

Was that sorted out after merger with AA?



During Single FOS (Pilot Integration) The first flight flown with 2 non matched crews was an HP and US pilot, followed shortly by a US and AA pilot later that day. So yes
 
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chepos
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:28 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
F27500 wrote:
Though, HP and US never really merged before in all those years, so I wouldn't expect this one to go quickly either

Was that sorted out after merger with AA?



Pilots have been merged for 1-2 years already if not longer, I can’t recall.
FAs will all be merged this October. So how long since the merger announcement has it been? 5-6 years? It’s about wrapped up.


Pilot FOS is going on 2 yrars come October.
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Swadian
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Re: Why does AA operate Ex-US Airways Aircraft strictly at former US-Airways hubs?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:32 pm

AA already operates a huge amount of LUS A321s out of DFW on flights such as DFW-LAS and others. They use LUS A320 on DFW-TUS and LAA 738 on CLT-MSP. The list goes on and on and on. Widebody integration is only the 763s out of PHL right now but don't be surprised to see LAA 772 or 788 out of LUS hubs once training is completed.

1337Delta764 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
UA tries to put the Right airplane on the right route no matter where it came from. Operations does all the plane assignments and it's based on capability and Loads which is why you'll find sometimes a different plane on a flight depending the day, the time, and the load


I know UA has a lot of short-hauls out of IAH on Airbus narrowbodies. I think I remember that shortly after the merger UA decided to move some of more of DEN's long-hauls to ex-CO Boeing narrowbodies while moving more of IAH's short-hauls to Airbus narrowbodies.


In UA's case it was a little different as CO actually had a hub at DEN until the 1990s. UA also used to operate significant routes from JFK that were moved to EWR.
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