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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Transatlantic 738s . . .

Wed Aug 25, 1999 1:13 am

I just read the latest Airliners and on page 31, in an interview with a senior CO 737 captain, it is rumoured that CO will operate 737-800s across the Atlantic, although probably only to Shannon.
Currently, CO flies daily to SNN and DUB, but the SNN route is necessitated by the Irish government's one for one policy; i.e. for every direct flight to Dublin, one has to go to SNN. (Until 1994, ALL flights had to go via SNN!). Flying the 738, particularly during the Winter would allow CO to continue direct services to DUB, all the way through the Winter. Last year, it operated via SNN, with 757s. We might yet see CO 777s in Dublin and if CO can do this, DL might do the same out of JFK, as its in much the same position . . .

RE: Transatlantic 738s . . .

Wed Aug 25, 1999 1:25 am

Here we go again with people predicting where the CO 777's are going. CO only has 16 on firm order!!! 777's will be deployed to Japan, Intra-Pacific, MAJOR European points and MAYBE a major Latin point. The 738 will NOT go Trans-Atlantic, the range is just too short for year round, full load use. The 737-700 MAY one day fly Trans-Atlantic, it has the range for a couple of Western European points.
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Wed Aug 25, 1999 3:43 am


last year, Swiss World, the shortliving carrier from Geneva, intended to start services with the B737-700 between Basle/Mulhouse and Newark, Geneva and Montreal and finally Geneva and Washington (beginning march 1999). I still have their schedule draft from the nov.1998 IATA schedule coordination conference.

Well, Swiss World went bankrupt before we could observe how passengers rated their 737 services compared to Swissair's A310/330 service between Basle and EWR....

Best regards,

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RE: 737-700

Wed Aug 25, 1999 3:57 am

While I accept what you say, it's in the mag. It must be borne in mind that the loads on this flight would not be that great; it's just intended to keep the Irish government happy while CO serves Dublin with, well, something other than 777s. Maybe they will use 73Gs instead. At the least, a SNN operation (and that would be about the shortest t/a flight you could have) would give CO some useful experience about 737 ETOPs.
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737-700 Trans-atlantic To Smaller Cities?

Wed Aug 25, 1999 4:33 am

Considering the 737-700 and 800 have the capabilities to fly transatlantic flights, could smaller, non hub cities finally gain the benefit of having nonstop transatlantic service? U.S. cities such as Indianapolis, Columbus, and Raliegh/Durham do have the demand for international travel, yet the demand is not large enough for an airline to invest a 777 or an A330 to support the service. So could an airline possibly invest in starting transatlantic 737 service to one of these or other cities? It would be interesting to see traveler reaction to a plan like this.
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RE: Transatlantic 738s . . .

Wed Aug 25, 1999 6:41 am

I believe that it is possible, as Hawaii-based Aloha Airlines is starting 737-700 service from HNL and OGG to Oakland, CA. However, the 737 is the LAST jet I would want to fly over the Atlantic. The smallest plane I would tolerate on a long route is a 767-200.
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Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Transatlantic 738s . . .

Wed Aug 25, 1999 6:51 am

There is a Raleigh - London service already with AA, and they do Paris non-stop daily as well. Both are 767-200s. The thing about 737s on trans-Atlantic routes is that the 757 carries about 40 extra seats but has fabulous economics and has flown across the pond for a decade. If a route that more than 4,000 miles is worth serving, they'll put a 757 on. I don't see the difference from a passenger comfort perspective between the two, it's the same diameter cabin, only on a 737 the crapper is closer to you (probably), so I guess that makes the 737 a winner by a hair, as the only walking around you'll need to do is to relieve oneself. As I mentioned before, there are a few A320 trans-Atlantic operators including holiday charters to Florida and 5-abreast corporate shuttles.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
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Wed Aug 25, 1999 8:25 am

So...where exactly does CO have "intra-Pacific" rights to/from?

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RE: Transatlantic 738s . . .

Thu Aug 26, 1999 2:14 am

Generally speaking, it doesn't make that much sense yet to fly medium/long haul flights with any 737-type. The costs per seat mile are much higher than a 767-type, for example. Even 757 operations viability were already put into question due to its higher flying costs in longer routes. Transbrasil declined its 757 options in the 80s because it would not make a profit flying to the US at that point in time. The point is: If it is not worth doing, don't do it!

Even though the 737NG is an enhanced product, it does not offer the required technology to make schedule medium/long haul flights a profitable idea.

The fastest way to become a millionaire in the airline business is to start as a billionaire.
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FLY777UAL And Continental In The Pacific

Thu Aug 26, 1999 2:53 am

CO have the biggest network of intra-Pacific flights of any airline. They have a big hub at Guam and fly betwen about two dozen small and unspellable islands with 727s including lots of point-to-point and multi-stop flights as well as to and from Guam, plus from various islands including Guam and the Marshall Islands they fly to cities in Japan, Hawaii, Indonesia, the Phillipines, Australia, Nauru and have dormant rights to Sydney and throughout New Zealand. Some of the flights were with 747-100s until about a year ago, it is now about eight DC10s and a big fleet of 727-200s and an increasing number of 757s. The network is branded Continental Micronesia, it's a very well known lifeline for the whole vast area.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz


Thu Aug 26, 1999 3:25 am

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Joined: Fri Jul 30, 1999 11:38 pm

The Pond Shuttle

Thu Aug 26, 1999 3:49 am

Though I'm not familiar with the seat-mile costs of the 737NG versus other twins, I suspect that the idea of transatlantic 737NG service is the product of the Boeing marketing department. The idea is to do for transatlantic air travel what deregulation did for domestic air travel in the United States--provide greater point-to-point frequencies with smaller aircraft. Airlines (at least in the U.S.) believe that by providing more frequent daily departures between major cities, passengers (particularly high-revenue business travelers) will tolerate the indignities of narrow-body aircraft for greater travel flexibility.

Some might suggest that this formula will work on some transatlantic markets, particularly if the U.S. Open Skies policies continues to liberalize these markets. In a world of open skies, airlines can fly transatlantic routes with whatever frequency and at whatever times they prefer (providing the origin and destination airports are not slot-constrained, hence JFK-LHR would not be such a city pair). Someday soon, for instance, we might see the Star alliance serve IAD-FRA with eight narrow-body aircraft instead of two B747-400s departing between early afternoon and midnight.

Who knows, maybe the 737NG will lead to a new product--the Pond Shuttle? My knees hurt just thinking about it.
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Joined: Mon Aug 16, 1999 5:00 pm


Thu Aug 26, 1999 10:02 am

Regarding the 737NG as an equipment designed for trans-atlantic flights, I think it doesn't even have the certification (ETOPS?? sorry.. Don't know the name)for doing so. The 737NG was not designed for this type of service. It will be, some day.
The fastest way to become a millionaire in the airline business is to start as a billionaire.

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