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Midwestindy
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AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 2:49 pm

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... n-failing/

American Airlines President Isom told employees on Friday how the airline sees themselves in New York. Here are some of the highlights

"We orient our schedule, our operation, around that business traveler. We’re never going to be at least today as big as Delta, we’re not going to be as big as United down at Newark. We really have to create a product that’s boutique-like and appeals to our strengths. What are those?.....We basically have a shuttle between the two biggest business markets in the world London Heathrow and New York. That is something that we really can build on. The transcons do really really well for us as well, and the transcons not just to Los Angeles and San Francisco but some other points out West as well."

"New York isn’t a connectional hub by any means, most all of those flights are entirely filled by people on the non-stops. So JFK-Heathrow, one of our most successful flights in the system even, is 70-75% full of people going New York – London, and the 20% – 25% that isn’t is typically going beyond London to somewhere else."

"In most places that’s a recipe for trouble. In New York we do well in these business markets. ..There’s really no path — we don’t have the slots, the capital, the ability to build a 600 departure hub there. But we do well in business markets and you’re going to see us go hard at those, things like the Kennedy-Heathrow operation which right now is split between us and BA, two different terminals in New York, two different terminals in London, we think there’s a lot of ways we can bring that together, a lot of ways to put really high quality products on the transcons and really get focused on the business customer as much as possible.”

"As we take a look forward in JFK I think there’s going to be an opportunity for further development… being able for us to house our joint business venture partners in a way that really expands our network as well."

Basically throwing in the towel IMO
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
evank516
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 3:02 pm

AA has a nice hub pretty much all to themselves in PHL. NYC will probably be those specialty markets to help feed their OneWorld partners. I wouldn't say throwing in the towel, but more like right sizing JFK to what will make them the most money and benefit AA and OneWorld.
 
tlvflyguy
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 3:07 pm

Well of course "NYC isn't a connectional hub" when you cut all your non-O&D routes.
Never thought I would hear AA described as "boutique".

It's a positive spin on an unfortunate situation to keep employee morale up.
 
jplatts
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 3:09 pm

AA does have opportunities to add nonstop service from LGA to additional domestic destinations within the LGA perimeter. Will AA ever add nonstop service to DSM, IAH, JAX, TYS, LIT, MKE, OKC, OMA, and/or TUL from LGA?
 
FSDan
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 3:18 pm

Another AA in NYC thread, huh? I guess it has been two weeks...

Nonetheless, good to hear that they're thinking about trying to co-locate with BA at JFK. It's good that they realize their overall limitations given the slot and facility constraints at both LGA and JFK, and given the strong and advantageously-positioned competitors they face at both airports. Given their network, it absolutely makes sense for AA to focus on winning business customers by serving the biggest business markets with competitive schedules. AA and OneWorld can easily remain the preferred airline/alliance for many business travelers who frequent London, LA, Chicago, Miami, Charlotte, Dallas, Boston, Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc. Hopefully they'll try to remain moderately competitive (or beef up their presence) in markets like San Francisco, Toronto, and Paris.
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LupineChemist
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 3:35 pm

Nothing would make me happier than hearing they are demolishing T7 and actually trying to coordinate with their JV partners. It's such an unpleasant experience.

And I certainly do use JFK for connections to DCA from MAD fairly often.
 
727LOVER
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 3:43 pm

OK, can someone please list all of the nonstop markets flown by AA from JFK, LGA & EWR?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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chepos
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 3:49 pm

FSDan wrote:
Another AA in NYC thread, huh? I guess it has been two weeks...

Nonetheless, good to hear that they're thinking about trying to co-locate with BA at JFK. It's good that they realize their overall limitations given the slot and facility constraints at both LGA and JFK, and given the strong and advantageously-positioned competitors they face at both airports. Given their network, it absolutely makes sense for AA to focus on winning business customers by serving the biggest business markets with competitive schedules. AA and OneWorld can easily remain the preferred airline/alliance for many business travelers who frequent London, LA, Chicago, Miami, Charlotte, Dallas, Boston, Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc. Hopefully they'll try to remain moderately competitive (or beef up their presence) in markets like San Francisco, Toronto, and Paris.


It’s acrually just been a couple of hours since the exact same article was posted last night. It’s the new favorite ANet topic.
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tphuang
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 4:06 pm

I actually just posted it yesterday
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1394349
interesting points are the BA/IB moving to T8 with AA and the possible transcon improvements. T7 is ripe for the taking!
 
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chepos
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 4:14 pm

tphuang wrote:
I actually just posted it yesterday
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1394349
interesting points are the BA/IB moving to T8 with AA and the possible transcon improvements. T7 is ripe for the taking!


Vasu and Robert stated it would be beneficial if BA/IB moves to T8. At no point has BA or IB stated this will be happening or agreed to it.
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Midwestindy
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 4:38 pm

727LOVER wrote:
OK, can someone please list all of the nonstop markets flown by AA from JFK, LGA & EWR?


EWR
Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Phoenix–Sky Harbor

JFK
Antigua, Austin, Barcelona, Bermuda, Boston, Buenos Aires–Ezeiza, Cancún, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Denver (begins June 7, 2018), Las Vegas, London–Heathrow, Los Angeles, Madrid, Miami, Milan–Malpensa, Orlando, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Phoenix–Sky Harbor, Port-au-Prince, St. Thomas, San Diego, San Francisco, São Paulo–Guarulhos, Seattle/Tacoma, Washington–National
Seasonal: Dublin, Eagle/Vail, Edinburgh, Punta Cana, Rio de Janeiro–Galeão, Rome–Fiumicino, St. Kitts, St. Maarten
Baltimore, Boston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Indianapolis, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, Toronto–Pearson, Washington–National

LGA
Akron/Canton, Atlanta, Charlotte, Charlottesville (VA), Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Dayton, Detroit, Fayetteville/Bentonville, Greensboro, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Portland (ME), Raleigh/Durham, Richmond, Roanoke, St. Louis, Toronto–Pearson, Wilmington (NC)
Seasonal: Augusta (GA), Bangor, Martha's Vineyard, Myrtle Beach, Nantucket, Traverse City (begins June 23, 2018)
Atlanta, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Orlando, Philadelphia, Raleigh/Durham, Washington–National
Seasonal: Pittsburgh, West Palm Beach
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
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KICT
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 4:46 pm

AA's hub will be even more impressive once the takeover of B6 is complete.
 
727LOVER
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 4:54 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
OK, can someone please list all of the nonstop markets flown by AA from JFK, LGA & EWR?


EWR
Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Phoenix–Sky Harbor

JFK
Antigua, Austin, Barcelona, Bermuda, Boston, Buenos Aires–Ezeiza, Cancún, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Denver (begins June 7, 2018), Las Vegas, London–Heathrow, Los Angeles, Madrid, Miami, Milan–Malpensa, Orlando, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Phoenix–Sky Harbor, Port-au-Prince, St. Thomas, San Diego, San Francisco, São Paulo–Guarulhos, Seattle/Tacoma, Washington–National
Seasonal: Dublin, Eagle/Vail, Edinburgh, Punta Cana, Rio de Janeiro–Galeão, Rome–Fiumicino, St. Kitts, St. Maarten
Baltimore, Boston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Indianapolis, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, Toronto–Pearson, Washington–National

LGA
Akron/Canton, Atlanta, Charlotte, Charlottesville (VA), Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Dayton, Detroit, Fayetteville/Bentonville, Greensboro, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Portland (ME), Raleigh/Durham, Richmond, Roanoke, St. Louis, Toronto–Pearson, Wilmington (NC)
Seasonal: Augusta (GA), Bangor, Martha's Vineyard, Myrtle Beach, Nantucket, Traverse City (begins June 23, 2018)
Atlanta, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Orlando, Philadelphia, Raleigh/Durham, Washington–National
Seasonal: Pittsburgh, West Palm Beach



Thank you, thank you, thank you!! :praise:


HMMMMM...no Tampa?

JFK list looks bigger than I thought

LGA-ATL...you've listed it twice....is it seasonal or not?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 5:19 pm

AA has a solid network out of NYC. As stated I think they can continue the O&D focus and let connections roll thru PHL.

I don't think we should panic if a few more routes Go away at JFK it's righsizing to maximize profitability that is all. AA relasing all this is probably to let employees know they are committed to NYC after those Europe exits and I bet a few more domestic might be coming, they don't need to panic. It's becoming more of a one world terminal and focus than just AA which seems fine to me.
 
evank516
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 5:22 pm

jplatts wrote:
AA does have opportunities to add nonstop service from LGA to additional domestic destinations within the LGA perimeter. Will AA ever add nonstop service to DSM, IAH, JAX, TYS, LIT, MKE, OKC, OMA, and/or TUL from LGA?


AA won't be adding JAX anytime soon. They just discontinued that route.

KICT wrote:
AA's hub will be even more impressive once the takeover of B6 is complete.


What are you smoking?
 
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STT757
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 5:27 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
Nothing would make me happier than hearing they are demolishing T7 and actually trying to coordinate with their JV partners. It's such an unpleasant experience.

And I certainly do use JFK for connections to DCA from MAD fairly often.


But isn't their best move just to maintain the status quo, keeping a split Oneworld operation between 7 & 8. That blocks the competition from growing. Since their operations is catering mostly to O&D, why do they need connections to BA? Connections can be made through other hubs, PHL, ORD, CLT, MIA etc..
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dmstorm22
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 5:45 pm

727LOVER wrote:
HMMMMM...no Tampa?

JFK list looks bigger than I thought

LGA-ATL...you've listed it twice....is it seasonal or not?


A lot of the domestic JFK destinations are 1x RJs to fill the small portion of non-O&D traffic on the longer routes. They have more capacity on more popular O&D destinations however, though there still less so than DL/UA
 
dmstorm22
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 5:48 pm

STT757 wrote:
LupineChemist wrote:
Nothing would make me happier than hearing they are demolishing T7 and actually trying to coordinate with their JV partners. It's such an unpleasant experience.

And I certainly do use JFK for connections to DCA from MAD fairly often.


But isn't their best move just to maintain the status quo, keeping a split Oneworld operation between 7 & 8. That blocks the competition from growing. Since their operations is catering mostly to O&D, why do they need connections to BA? Connections can be made through other hubs, PHL, ORD, CLT, MIA etc..


There are a few non-OW airlines flying out of T7 as well, though fewer now than there used to be. The other terminals are in no shape to really take on additional flight volume either.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 5:49 pm

AA is in a better position in the NE than DL or UA. Id rather have PHL as the connecting hub and JFK/LGA for local traffic than running a bunch of connecting markets that no one in NYC cares about and having a huge operation in NYC with all sorts of operational issues. AA serves the top O&Ds from NYC and connects traffic in PHL. That is a far better situation to be in than UA or DL.
 
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Jamake1
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 5:58 pm

I don't see this as AA throwing in the towel. The marketplace has changed. JetBlue got much larger from NYC to the Caribbean due to a considerably lower cost structure over the past decade. DL became dominant in part due to the slot swap with the former USAirways. Then the industry consolidated and American found itself with a formidable hub down the road at PHL. The marketplace is one where airlines will play to their strengths and right size markets/focus cities that are important to their bottom line, but where said airline cannot be the dominant carrier. This is exactly what AA is doing at JFK. Getting BA and IB under one roof at T8 will improve AA's operations at JFK. Besides, AA has gained an enviable dominant position at DCA. It is better for the industry as a whole when the respective airlines play to their strengths: e.g. DL at ATL and NYC; AA at DFW and PHL; UA at EWR and SFO; WN at DAL, MDW, and OAK; B6 at BOS, FLL, and JFK. It's called smart asset allocation.
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Austin787
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 6:08 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2018/05/16/american-airlines-sees-new-york-american-failing/


The article states "they said they were the airline to bring customers to New York rather than the airline for New Yorkers". Pretty much sums up where AA is headed in NYC. Management is saying whatever employees want to hear, but actions speak louder than words.

Management's comments about NYC sound similar to what Delta and United management said about MEM and CLE, respectively. And we know how it worked out for MEM and CLE.
Last edited by Austin787 on Thu May 17, 2018 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 6:10 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
OK, can someone please list all of the nonstop markets flown by AA from JFK, LGA & EWR?


EWR
Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Phoenix–Sky Harbor

JFK
Antigua, Austin, Barcelona, Bermuda, Boston, Buenos Aires–Ezeiza, Cancún, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Denver (begins June 7, 2018), Las Vegas, London–Heathrow, Los Angeles, Madrid, Miami, Milan–Malpensa, Orlando, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Phoenix–Sky Harbor, Port-au-Prince, St. Thomas, San Diego, San Francisco, São Paulo–Guarulhos, Seattle/Tacoma, Washington–National
Seasonal: Dublin, Eagle/Vail, Edinburgh, Punta Cana, Rio de Janeiro–Galeão, Rome–Fiumicino, St. Kitts, St. Maarten
Baltimore, Boston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Indianapolis, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, Toronto–Pearson, Washington–National

LGA
Akron/Canton, Atlanta, Charlotte, Charlottesville (VA), Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Dayton, Detroit, Fayetteville/Bentonville, Greensboro, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Portland (ME), Raleigh/Durham, Richmond, Roanoke, St. Louis, Toronto–Pearson, Wilmington (NC)
Seasonal: Augusta (GA), Bangor, Martha's Vineyard, Myrtle Beach, Nantucket, Traverse City (begins June 23, 2018)
Atlanta, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Orlando, Philadelphia, Raleigh/Durham, Washington–National
Seasonal: Pittsburgh, West Palm Beach


Since when did JFK-BNA become seasonal?
 
stlgph
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 6:12 pm

It's obviously an error in copying and pasting from Wikipedia.

The cities on the bottom portion are American Eagle flying.

I mean, here, let me google that for you....
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
n2dru
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 6:39 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
OK, can someone please list all of the nonstop markets flown by AA from JFK, LGA & EWR?


EWR
Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Phoenix–Sky Harbor

JFK
Antigua, Austin, Barcelona, Bermuda, Boston, Buenos Aires–Ezeiza, Cancún, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Denver (begins June 7, 2018), Las Vegas, London–Heathrow, Los Angeles, Madrid, Miami, Milan–Malpensa, Orlando, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Phoenix–Sky Harbor, Port-au-Prince, St. Thomas, San Diego, San Francisco, São Paulo–Guarulhos, Seattle/Tacoma, Washington–National
Seasonal: Dublin, Eagle/Vail, Edinburgh, Punta Cana, Rio de Janeiro–Galeão, Rome–Fiumicino, St. Kitts, St. Maarten
Baltimore, Boston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Indianapolis, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, Toronto–Pearson, Washington–National

LGA
Akron/Canton, Atlanta, Charlotte, Charlottesville (VA), Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Dayton, Detroit, Fayetteville/Bentonville, Greensboro, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Portland (ME), Raleigh/Durham, Richmond, Roanoke, St. Louis, Toronto–Pearson, Wilmington (NC)
Seasonal: Augusta (GA), Bangor, Martha's Vineyard, Myrtle Beach, Nantucket, Traverse City (begins June 23, 2018)
Atlanta, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Orlando, Philadelphia, Raleigh/Durham, Washington–National
Seasonal: Pittsburgh, West Palm Beach
...Anyone think AA would add ATL to JFK since Atlanta to New York is a huge market? I know they already fly ATL to LGA. Maybe compete with DL and B6 to JFK who recently added it.
 
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American 767
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 6:47 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
OK, can someone please list all of the nonstop markets flown by AA from JFK, LGA & EWR?


EWR
Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Phoenix–Sky Harbor

JFK
Antigua, Austin, Barcelona, Bermuda, Boston, Buenos Aires–Ezeiza, Cancún, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Denver (begins June 7, 2018), Las Vegas, London–Heathrow, Los Angeles, Madrid, Miami, Milan–Malpensa, Orlando, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Phoenix–Sky Harbor, Port-au-Prince, St. Thomas, San Diego, San Francisco, São Paulo–Guarulhos, Seattle/Tacoma, Washington–National
Seasonal: Dublin, Eagle/Vail, Edinburgh, Punta Cana, Rio de Janeiro–Galeão, Rome–Fiumicino, St. Kitts, St. Maarten
Baltimore, Boston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Indianapolis, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, Toronto–Pearson, Washington–National

LGA
Akron/Canton, Atlanta, Charlotte, Charlottesville (VA), Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Dayton, Detroit, Fayetteville/Bentonville, Greensboro, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Portland (ME), Raleigh/Durham, Richmond, Roanoke, St. Louis, Toronto–Pearson, Wilmington (NC)
Seasonal: Augusta (GA), Bangor, Martha's Vineyard, Myrtle Beach, Nantucket, Traverse City (begins June 23, 2018)
Atlanta, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Orlando, Philadelphia, Raleigh/Durham, Washington–National
Seasonal: Pittsburgh, West Palm Beach


Thank you for the comprehensive detailed list. Yes obviously American is very weak in EWR, flying only to the main hubs. United, who is very strong there, has most of the market share in EWR, like Delta in Atlanta. They are significantly stronger in JFK and LGA. Are they strong in JFK and LGA? Yes, if you compare to EWR. No, if you compare to the main hubs DFW, ORD, CLT, PHL and MIA.

What would be nice to know also is which of these markets are still flown to with 757 and 767 equipment,and how much longer JFK will continue to see the 757 and 767. LGA doesn't see the 757 anymore, and neither does EWR.

Nonstop from JFK on the 757:
EDI, DUB, MIA and PUJ. And maybe EGE. As far as I know. CDG stopped seeing the 757 a few months ago. It was still seeing the 757 last summer.

Nonstop from JFK on the 767:
CDG, MAD and MIA,. Just these three. That's it.

Any others that I am missing? Please don't hesitate to correct me. Any updated info will be appreciated, if anyone has any.
Last edited by American 767 on Thu May 17, 2018 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jbpdx
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 6:51 pm

The only AA nonstop Portland has to the NYC-PHL-Northeast region is a 9-week run in the summer to Philadelphia. PDX has no nonstops to South Florida, on AA or B6. OneWorld has no international presence in Portland.
 
Brickell305
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 6:52 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
AA has a solid network out of NYC. As stated I think they can continue the O&D focus and let connections roll thru PHL.

I don't think we should panic if a few more routes Go away at JFK it's righsizing to maximize profitability that is all. AA relasing all this is probably to let employees know they are committed to NYC after those Europe exits and I bet a few more domestic might be coming, they don't need to panic. It's becoming more of a one world terminal and focus than just AA which seems fine to me.

I get where you're coming from but as the author of the article points out, once you cut to too many places, you become less attractive as an O&D airline as well. For example, if I'm a business traveler who goes to London 10 times a year and Zurich once a year, even though most of my travel is to London, I may choose to do it with a carrier that can get me to both places nonstop to maximize my mileage accrual. So in this instance, even though AA/BA dominate London and I travel there more often than not, I may still choose someone else for flights to London because they can also get me to the other places I travel nonstop and I maximize FFM with them. The case is even more compelling if that other carrier can also fly me nonstop to more leisure destinations when I'm ready for a vacation. So I get that AA has to right-size but at some point, you do pass that inflection point where you've cut too much and are no longer competitive. I don't think AA is at that point yet though.
 
Kashmon
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 6:57 pm

AA typical AA grow by giving up- they could have had NYC but they gave it up to DL- look forward to DL thrashing AA and once it gains the scale at JFK gaining the majority of the high spend customers....
knocking AA down at LAX will be a piece of cake.
"Boutique product"
hilarious....
 
Kashmon
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 7:03 pm

Jamake1 wrote:
I don't see this as AA throwing in the towel. The marketplace has changed. JetBlue got much larger from NYC to the Caribbean due to a considerably lower cost structure over the past decade. DL became dominant in part due to the slot swap with the former USAirways. Then the industry consolidated and American found itself with a formidable hub down the road at PHL. The marketplace is one where airlines will play to their strengths and right size markets/focus cities that are important to their bottom line, but where said airline cannot be the dominant carrier. This is exactly what AA is doing at JFK. Getting BA and IB under one roof at T8 will improve AA's operations at JFK. Besides, AA has gained an enviable dominant position at DCA. It is better for the industry as a whole when the respective airlines play to their strengths: e.g. DL at ATL and NYC; AA at DFW and PHL; UA at EWR and SFO; WN at DAL, MDW, and OAK; B6 at BOS, FLL, and JFK. It's called smart asset allocation.


Willing to bet all my money that AA wished they were in DL's poisition at JFK....
smart allocation- nonsense
AA lost and failed to capture the most premium market in USA/ THE WORLD?!
In spite of having allies that hub at the other 3 top premium markets- Tokyo, Hong Kong and London

Whenever the environment gets competitive- AA loses
they just do not know how to win
on track to loose LAX as awell

soon AA will smartly allocate all its assets at DFW
and then those assets will "smartly" disappear as well ( unless another merger!)
 
Swadian
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 7:31 pm

Kashmon wrote:
Jamake1 wrote:
I don't see this as AA throwing in the towel. The marketplace has changed. JetBlue got much larger from NYC to the Caribbean due to a considerably lower cost structure over the past decade. DL became dominant in part due to the slot swap with the former USAirways. Then the industry consolidated and American found itself with a formidable hub down the road at PHL. The marketplace is one where airlines will play to their strengths and right size markets/focus cities that are important to their bottom line, but where said airline cannot be the dominant carrier. This is exactly what AA is doing at JFK. Getting BA and IB under one roof at T8 will improve AA's operations at JFK. Besides, AA has gained an enviable dominant position at DCA. It is better for the industry as a whole when the respective airlines play to their strengths: e.g. DL at ATL and NYC; AA at DFW and PHL; UA at EWR and SFO; WN at DAL, MDW, and OAK; B6 at BOS, FLL, and JFK. It's called smart asset allocation.


Willing to bet all my money that AA wished they were in DL's poisition at JFK....
smart allocation- nonsense
AA lost and failed to capture the most premium market in USA/ THE WORLD?!
In spite of having allies that hub at the other 3 top premium markets- Tokyo, Hong Kong and London

Whenever the environment gets competitive- AA loses
they just do not know how to win
on track to loose LAX as awell

soon AA will smartly allocate all its assets at DFW
and then those assets will "smartly" disappear as well ( unless another merger!)


AA is not losing at LAX, ORD, or DCA. AA has been losing at NYC ever since Bob Crandall left in 1998; this is not news.
Inland Streamliner
 
superjeff
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 8:41 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2018/05/16/american-airlines-sees-new-york-american-failing/


The article states "they said they were the airline to bring customers to New York rather than the airline for New Yorkers". Pretty much sums up where AA is headed in NYC. Management is saying whatever employees want to hear, but actions speak louder than words.

Management's comments about NYC sound similar to what Delta and United management said about MEM and CLE, respectively. And we know how it worked out for MEM and CLE.


Sorry folks, but New York is definitely not CLE nor is it MEM. AA has to have a major operation in New York, whether it is O&D or connections, or a bit of both doesn't matter. NYC is too important from an image position, at the very least, and it is profitable for them AA is after profits, not to match Delta or United.
 
Etheereal
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Thu May 17, 2018 10:31 pm

Kashmon wrote:
Whenever the environment gets competitive- AA loses
they just do not know how to win
on track to loose LAX as awell


AA's bad at management. More news at 10.
 
toltommy
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 12:19 am

KICT wrote:
AA's hub will be even more impressive once the takeover of B6 is complete.


Exactly. B6 isn't big enough to survive alone. The only other dance partner left is AS. That gives them a route network like the combined HP/US. Eventually B6 will put themselves up for sale, just like VX did.
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753/762/763/764/772/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440/700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31
 
tphuang
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 12:54 am

toltommy wrote:
KICT wrote:
AA's hub will be even more impressive once the takeover of B6 is complete.


Exactly. B6 isn't big enough to survive alone. The only other dance partner left is AS. That gives them a route network like the combined HP/US. Eventually B6 will put themselves up for sale, just like VX did.


Why do you need to be big to survive? If B6 and AS is printing money, why do they need to merge?
 
toltommy
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 7:34 am

tphuang wrote:
toltommy wrote:
KICT wrote:
AA's hub will be even more impressive once the takeover of B6 is complete.


Exactly. B6 isn't big enough to survive alone. The only other dance partner left is AS. That gives them a route network like the combined HP/US. Eventually B6 will put themselves up for sale, just like VX did.


Why do you need to be big to survive? If B6 and AS is printing money, why do they need to merge?


In the case of B6, yes they are profitable, but their competition gets better yields on comparable routes. They need to be big because the big 3 can spread costs out further. At some point that turns into a yield issue. When selling makes a better ROI than continuing the fight, you'll see a for sale sign in the yard.
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753/762/763/764/772/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440/700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31
 
RvA
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 8:38 am

Is NYC the centre of the universe?
 
tphuang
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 11:24 am

toltommy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
toltommy wrote:

Exactly. B6 isn't big enough to survive alone. The only other dance partner left is AS. That gives them a route network like the combined HP/US. Eventually B6 will put themselves up for sale, just like VX did.


Why do you need to be big to survive? If B6 and AS is printing money, why do they need to merge?


In the case of B6, yes they are profitable, but their competition gets better yields on comparable routes. They need to be big because the big 3 can spread costs out further. At some point that turns into a yield issue. When selling makes a better ROI than continuing the fight, you'll see a for sale sign in the yard.


The part about competition gets better yields may be true in some cases, but they have vastly lower cost. A lot of the routes out of JFK that work for B6 right now doesn't work for anyone else.

Just as an example, a B6 mainline flight to a within perimeter destination generates $100 per available seat out of JFK, but DL regional generates $125 out of LGA. That route wouldn't work for DL out of JFK because their costs are too high, but it does work for B6. They have so many routes out of JFK that are surprisingly profitable due to their cost level and their loyalty of passengers willing to fly out of JFK.

Now, AA is trying to fill up some slots with within perimeter flying, but places like CLE/BWI are just not profitable ways of using up slots for AAE flying. We will see how long this strategy lasts. The more longer range route they cut, the less profitable these connection driven routes will be. I think it's a good move to have AA/IB move into T8 from revenue management point of view, since it can be a pain to transit from T8 to T7. But it would give up valuable real estate which B6 is going to snap up like that.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 11:30 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
AA is in a better position in the NE than DL or UA. Id rather have PHL as the connecting hub and JFK/LGA for local traffic than running a bunch of connecting markets that no one in NYC cares about and having a huge operation in NYC with all sorts of operational issues. AA serves the top O&Ds from NYC and connects traffic in PHL. That is a far better situation to be in than UA or DL.


You (and Isom) are rationalizing a 2nd-rate position. This era of Big Hub economics tells carriers to aggregate traffic, not split it across two hubs. The successes of ATL, DFW and CLT should tell you something, as they regularly add destinations and upgauge.
 
mutu
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 11:42 am

If co-location with BA on the NYLON is that important to him, the short term move would seem to be to move the 3 AA rotations from T8 to T7, and from T3 to T5.
Its only one route, but a key route per the article!! (DL/VS did this for a time when DL split between T4 and T3 at LHR)
And could easily be accommodated at both T7 and T5, albeit T7 would be a bit more of a crush. And made to happen in relatively short time period.
Then get on building out T8 so moving BA and IB over from T8 is physically possible down the line
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 1:06 pm

Another week, another AA in NY thread. Sure, AA could have made the NYC market, particularly at/from JFK their own once T8 opened, but the airline's economics had changed dramatically by then, post 9/11 (remember AA entered bankruptcy in 2011). While a merger with B6 would make some sense from an operational perspective, it would also come with anti-trust requirements to divest in some markets, notably South Florida.

American probably does not need a mega hub at JFK because it can flow traffic through PHL more effectively and efficiently. NYC is an O&D market for AA and one that it can certainly compete in, and does. Terminal 8 is the best one at JFK and the most efficient. It would make sense to finally tear down T7 (it is a dump and the further investment in it is lipstick on a pig), build a satellite to T8 and join the oneworld airlines under one roof.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 1:07 pm

mutu wrote:
If co-location with BA on the NYLON is that important to him, the short term move would seem to be to move the 3 AA rotations from T8 to T7, and from T3 to T5.
Its only one route, but a key route per the article!! (DL/VS did this for a time when DL split between T4 and T3 at LHR)
And could easily be accommodated at both T7 and T5, albeit T7 would be a bit more of a crush. And made to happen in relatively short time period.
Then get on building out T8 so moving BA and IB over from T8 is physically possible down the line


AA has four rotations between JFK and LHR. 2 x 772 and 2 x 773.
 
superjeff
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 1:23 pm

mutu wrote:
If co-location with BA on the NYLON is that important to him, the short term move would seem to be to move the 3 AA rotations from T8 to T7, and from T3 to T5.
Its only one route, but a key route per the article!! (DL/VS did this for a time when DL split between T4 and T3 at LHR)
And could easily be accommodated at both T7 and T5, albeit T7 would be a bit more of a crush. And made to happen in relatively short time period.
Then get on building out T8 so moving BA and IB over from T8 is physically possible down the line



Don't forget that BA owns terminal 7. That is important; they probably would rather keep the real estate rather than becoming a tenant in Terminal 8, unless AA is willing to sell them an interest in it, or transfer it to the JV's with BA/IB/AY, JL, and now LATAM each buying a part of it. They have room to build out the terminal, and probably could fit most of the Terminal 7 carriers easily; they could then either (a) bulldoze Terminal 7, or (b) make some arrangement with AS who is currently their biggest non IAG tenant. Ukraine International and Aerolineas are not of major concern as I think they could find space in another terminal.
 
evank516
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 1:25 pm

American 767 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
OK, can someone please list all of the nonstop markets flown by AA from JFK, LGA & EWR?


EWR
Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Phoenix–Sky Harbor

JFK
Antigua, Austin, Barcelona, Bermuda, Boston, Buenos Aires–Ezeiza, Cancún, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Denver (begins June 7, 2018), Las Vegas, London–Heathrow, Los Angeles, Madrid, Miami, Milan–Malpensa, Orlando, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Phoenix–Sky Harbor, Port-au-Prince, St. Thomas, San Diego, San Francisco, São Paulo–Guarulhos, Seattle/Tacoma, Washington–National
Seasonal: Dublin, Eagle/Vail, Edinburgh, Punta Cana, Rio de Janeiro–Galeão, Rome–Fiumicino, St. Kitts, St. Maarten
Baltimore, Boston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Indianapolis, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, Toronto–Pearson, Washington–National

LGA
Akron/Canton, Atlanta, Charlotte, Charlottesville (VA), Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Dayton, Detroit, Fayetteville/Bentonville, Greensboro, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Portland (ME), Raleigh/Durham, Richmond, Roanoke, St. Louis, Toronto–Pearson, Wilmington (NC)
Seasonal: Augusta (GA), Bangor, Martha's Vineyard, Myrtle Beach, Nantucket, Traverse City (begins June 23, 2018)
Atlanta, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Miami, Orlando, Philadelphia, Raleigh/Durham, Washington–National
Seasonal: Pittsburgh, West Palm Beach


Thank you for the comprehensive detailed list. Yes obviously American is very weak in EWR, flying only to the main hubs. United, who is very strong there, has most of the market share in EWR, like Delta in Atlanta. They are significantly stronger in JFK and LGA. Are they strong in JFK and LGA? Yes, if you compare to EWR. No, if you compare to the main hubs DFW, ORD, CLT, PHL and MIA.

What would be nice to know also is which of these markets are still flown to with 757 and 767 equipment,and how much longer JFK will continue to see the 757 and 767. LGA doesn't see the 757 anymore, and neither does EWR.

Nonstop from JFK on the 757:
EDI, DUB, MIA and PUJ. And maybe EGE. As far as I know. CDG stopped seeing the 757 a few months ago. It was still seeing the 757 last summer.

Nonstop from JFK on the 767:
CDG, MAD and MIA,. Just these three. That's it.

Any others that I am missing? Please don't hesitate to correct me. Any updated info will be appreciated, if anyone has any.


I think JFK-CLT still sees 757s at least on a seasonal basis.

toltommy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
toltommy wrote:

Exactly. B6 isn't big enough to survive alone. The only other dance partner left is AS. That gives them a route network like the combined HP/US. Eventually B6 will put themselves up for sale, just like VX did.


Why do you need to be big to survive? If B6 and AS is printing money, why do they need to merge?


In the case of B6, yes they are profitable, but their competition gets better yields on comparable routes. They need to be big because the big 3 can spread costs out further. At some point that turns into a yield issue. When selling makes a better ROI than continuing the fight, you'll see a for sale sign in the yard.


B6 has a lower cost structure thus not commanding the same level of yield that the big 3 do. They're not going to sell, they're doing very well on their own.
 
Brickell305
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 1:34 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Another week, another AA in NY thread. Sure, AA could have made the NYC market, particularly at/from JFK their own once T8 opened, but the airline's economics had changed dramatically by then, post 9/11 (remember AA entered bankruptcy in 2011). While a merger with B6 would make some sense from an operational perspective, it would also come with anti-trust requirements to divest in some markets, notably South Florida.

I actually think a hypothetical AA-B6 merger (which I don't think will ever happen by the way) would actually have more anti-trust issues out of NYC than out of So. Fla. If the two were to merge, AA would largely do away with B6's operation at FLL. They'd really have no reason to keep it. It competes directly with their own operations at MIA. I could easily see AA getting rid of everything at FLL except for the hubs (sans MIA obviously), PAP, KIN, NAS, SJU & HAV. I think everything else either gets dropped or beefed up from MIA. In NYC, there's a lot more AA would keep and very little they'd drop.
 
tphuang
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 1:43 pm

superjeff wrote:
mutu wrote:
If co-location with BA on the NYLON is that important to him, the short term move would seem to be to move the 3 AA rotations from T8 to T7, and from T3 to T5.
Its only one route, but a key route per the article!! (DL/VS did this for a time when DL split between T4 and T3 at LHR)
And could easily be accommodated at both T7 and T5, albeit T7 would be a bit more of a crush. And made to happen in relatively short time period.
Then get on building out T8 so moving BA and IB over from T8 is physically possible down the line



Don't forget that BA owns terminal 7. That is important; they probably would rather keep the real estate rather than becoming a tenant in Terminal 8, unless AA is willing to sell them an interest in it, or transfer it to the JV's with BA/IB/AY, JL, and now LATAM each buying a part of it. They have room to build out the terminal, and probably could fit most of the Terminal 7 carriers easily; they could then either (a) bulldoze Terminal 7, or (b) make some arrangement with AS who is currently their biggest non IAG tenant. Ukraine International and Aerolineas are not of major concern as I think they could find space in another terminal.


They don’t own t7. They manage it
 
Lootess
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 1:48 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
AA is in a better position in the NE than DL or UA. Id rather have PHL as the connecting hub and JFK/LGA for local traffic than running a bunch of connecting markets that no one in NYC cares about and having a huge operation in NYC with all sorts of operational issues. AA serves the top O&Ds from NYC and connects traffic in PHL. That is a far better situation to be in than UA or DL.


You (and Isom) are rationalizing a 2nd-rate position. This era of Big Hub economics tells carriers to aggregate traffic, not split it across two hubs. The successes of ATL, DFW and CLT should tell you something, as they regularly add destinations and upgauge.


I like the "far better situation" rationale when DL and UA have the biggest O&D market.

AA still admits they have not gotten the basics of what a JV really should be to a customer. DL/VS have been co-located at JFK Terminal 4, and LHR Terminal 3 for awhile now. A solution that obviously affects the top-tier customers around lounges, connections, and customer service.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 2:16 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2018/05/16/american-airlines-sees-new-york-american-failing/

American Airlines President Isom told employees on Friday how the airline sees themselves in New York. Here are some of the highlights

"We orient our schedule, our operation, around that business traveler. We’re never going to be at least today as big as Delta, we’re not going to be as big as United down at Newark. We really have to create a product that’s boutique-like and appeals to our strengths. What are those?.....We basically have a shuttle between the two biggest business markets in the world London Heathrow and New York. That is something that we really can build on. The transcons do really really well for us as well, and the transcons not just to Los Angeles and San Francisco but some other points out West as well."

"New York isn’t a connectional hub by any means, most all of those flights are entirely filled by people on the non-stops. So JFK-Heathrow, one of our most successful flights in the system even, is 70-75% full of people going New York – London, and the 20% – 25% that isn’t is typically going beyond London to somewhere else."

"In most places that’s a recipe for trouble. In New York we do well in these business markets. ..There’s really no path — we don’t have the slots, the capital, the ability to build a 600 departure hub there. But we do well in business markets and you’re going to see us go hard at those, things like the Kennedy-Heathrow operation which right now is split between us and BA, two different terminals in New York, two different terminals in London, we think there’s a lot of ways we can bring that together, a lot of ways to put really high quality products on the transcons and really get focused on the business customer as much as possible.”

"As we take a look forward in JFK I think there’s going to be an opportunity for further development… being able for us to house our joint business venture partners in a way that really expands our network as well."

Basically throwing in the towel IMO


Thanks for sharing this; you have such interesting tidbits. This reminds me of UA's position on its Florida presence (we can't be big there but will have a presence).

It sounds like AA will co-locate with BA at JFK and LHR then....moving to T8? Winder what will happen to T7? WN? NK? F9 ? B6 expansion? UA to return?

Still though AA has a good/;leading position on its hub routes, ORD, DFW, LAX, MIA, CLT, PHX, DCA, and the core buisness markets of LHR, GRU, BOS, NRT (via JAL), as well as HEL, MAD, CDG, DUB, HKG, and others either alone or through partners....it seems they can refocus on these well, offering the highest frequency to their hubs, SFO and LHR.

It would be quite the challenge for three carriers +JetBlue to "hub" at NYC, and in a way AA is in a strategic bind. Yes, it technically "could" draw down PHL and add ~100 new daily flights at JFK to feed an expanded international operation, but then it is forced to compete much more with DL and UA (both growing in NYC?) for local NYC traffic. That would be the point of NYC expansion, yes, if it was determined that facing more competition in NYC for local traffic and flowing connecting traffic (which would otherwise flow through PHL on AA) through JFK. Local traffic is not the panacea it is sometimes considered to be, however, and as knope2001 wrote (thanks) connecting traffic can (sometimes) be higher fare if there's less competition and you can control the buisness market.

NYC will always be an expensive market to operate in, and by flowing US-Europe traffic over PHL instead of JFK (or US Northeast connecting passengers over PHL over JFK/LGA), AA can "dominate" the itinerary, facing less competition on each leg, saving money (from lower CPEs) while collecting higher fares from local (AAA-PHL and PHL-BBB) traffic.

As an important buisness market, almost unarguably the top market in the US in most metrics, NYC cannot be abandoned by AA, but it can focus on its strengths elsewhere, giving NYC passengers strong competition or routes IT CAN dominate like MIA, DFW, LAX (to an extent), LHR, etc. while not entering/focusing on the smaller markets which see overcapacity from New York (and which would require high levels of connecting passengers through NYC).

Focus on the top markets from NYC across all airports. Flow connecting traffic through PHL in the Northeast. Focus on inbound passengers to NYC for the smaller markets (no need to further destroy yields on routes like RDU by offering 15+ flights a day). Focus on the routes which can be won.

I agree that AA has "given in" but someone had to give in to allow NYC to remain stable as a market. AA will remain competitive for NYC, on the routes in which it can compete. It is smaller than DL/UA but larger than B6, and as it can not profitably expand to their size. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RZTy7ispCpyrkZM4ispyY6LIt4nb3cIg as trying to attract 6,000 PDEW more O&D passengers would drive yields down to unprofitable (I assume levels, or AA would be doing it), AA can not be the leader in every market. AA seems to be taking the lead in LAX, has a major ORD hub, holds the MIA gateway, etc., and as the largest US carrier is in a fine position. UA under Kirby probably covets CLT or MIA while AA would like a greater West/Northwest presence. Would AA like to control NYC? Sure yes, but doing so in the present situation/environment would hurt AA more than it would help it. If B6 (crazily unlikely) moves its JFK operation to PHL, I'm sure AA would consider expanding NYC, but again in the present situation, AA has determined that its best to not try to lose money to gain a "lead" in NYC.

Cointrin330 wrote:
Another week, another AA in NY thread. Sure, AA could have made the NYC market, particularly at/from JFK their own once T8 opened, but the airline's economics had changed dramatically by then, post 9/11 (remember AA entered bankruptcy in 2011). While a merger with B6 would make some sense from an operational perspective, it would also come with anti-trust requirements to divest in some markets, notably South Florida.

American probably does not need a mega hub at JFK because it can flow traffic through PHL more effectively and efficiently. NYC is an O&D market for AA and one that it can certainly compete in, and does. Terminal 8 is the best one at JFK and the most efficient. It would make sense to finally tear down T7 (it is a dump and the further investment in it is lipstick on a pig), build a satellite to T8 and join the oneworld airlines under one roof.


Agree, that's probably what will happen.
MIflyer12 wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
AA is in a better position in the NE than DL or UA. Id rather have PHL as the connecting hub and JFK/LGA for local traffic than running a bunch of connecting markets that no one in NYC cares about and having a huge operation in NYC with all sorts of operational issues. AA serves the top O&Ds from NYC and connects traffic in PHL. That is a far better situation to be in than UA or DL.


You (and Isom) are rationalizing a 2nd-rate position. This era of Big Hub economics tells carriers to aggregate traffic, not split it across two hubs. The successes of ATL, DFW and CLT should tell you something, as they regularly add destinations and upgauge.


Yes, ORF-PHL-CDG will be obviously better than trying to sell ORF-LGA (drive) JFK-CDG (for example). Operationally, competitively, and financially, its a better choice to consolidate connecting flows into a better hub. (AA has less than 1000 PDEW of connecting domestic traffic at JFK/LGA, so excluding international traffic its already mostly O&D)
UA has the best consolidated network in NYC with EWR, and larger problems with its overall domestic competitveness. UA is better than AA in NYC but as UA is only just now fixing its structural network problems, DL's hubs in smaller markets (on average) and AA's strong primary market presence, each will do fine. UA had long been giving up its competitiveness on a larger scale than AA has ever been:
:
Kashmon wrote:
AA typical AA grow by giving up- they could have had NYC but they gave it up to DL- look forward to DL thrashing AA and once it gains the scale at JFK gaining the majority of the high spend customers....
knocking AA down at LAX will be a piece of cake.
"Boutique product"
hilarious....


AA at NYC is at least trying to compete, better than Smisek-UA or US Airways (LGA slot sitting)

It has decided not to lose money to gain a money losing top spot but offers a comprehensive, competitive product to travelers visiting NYC or originating in NYC.

It will do fine
Austin787 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2018/05/16/american-airlines-sees-new-york-american-failing/


The article states "they said they were the airline to bring customers to New York rather than the airline for New Yorkers". Pretty much sums up where AA is headed in NYC. Management is saying whatever employees want to hear, but actions speak louder than words.

Management's comments about NYC sound similar to what Delta and United management said about MEM and CLE, respectively. And we know how it worked out for MEM and CLE.


Inbound focus?
UA DL LH NW AA --- Next DEN-IND (UA TBD)
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4208
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 2:58 pm

evank516 wrote:
I think JFK-CLT still sees 757s at least on a seasonal basis.


It did recently. I flew JFK-CLT twice (once connecting on an A321 to FLL, and once connecting also on an A321 to DFW) within the last year on the 757, it was a morning flight. But I didn't mention it because I saw on aa.com that route wouldn't see the 757 anymore. It would be nice if it comes back. If it does I will consider that when planning trips. Thanks for letting me know. I look for 757s when I plan trips on AA. Those are now getting more difficult to get, compared to a few years ago, so whenever it is possible to get a 757 I take advantage of that now before it is too late.

I flew JFK-MIA-JFK a month ago. Both flights were 757s.
Ben Soriano
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 2:59 pm

tphuang wrote:
toltommy wrote:
KICT wrote:
AA's hub will be even more impressive once the takeover of B6 is complete.


Exactly. B6 isn't big enough to survive alone. The only other dance partner left is AS. That gives them a route network like the combined HP/US. Eventually B6 will put themselves up for sale, just like VX did.


Why do you need to be big to survive? If B6 and AS is printing money, why do they need to merge?


Because some Wall Street Hedge Fund "activist investor" will force it.
 
evank516
Posts: 1464
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: AA's position in NYC

Fri May 18, 2018 3:24 pm

American 767 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
I think JFK-CLT still sees 757s at least on a seasonal basis.


It did recently. I flew JFK-CLT twice (once connecting on an A321 to FLL, and once connecting also on an A321 to DFW) within the last year on the 757, it was a morning flight. But I didn't mention it because I saw on aa.com that route wouldn't see the 757 anymore. It would be nice if it comes back. If it does I will consider that when planning trips. Thanks for letting me know. I look for 757s when I plan trips on AA. Those are now getting more difficult to get, compared to a few years ago, so whenever it is possible to get a 757 I take advantage of that now before it is too late.

I flew JFK-MIA-JFK a month ago. Both flights were 757s.


A friend of mine is flying JFK-MIA-EYW today and JFK-MIA is a 757. I remember when DL was pretty much all 757s on LGA-ATL. Also was supposed to be on a 757 in July from ATL-JFK coming home from EYW, but they just switched it this week to a 717. Talk about a snorefest.

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