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neomax
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:26 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:36 pm

I am not a DTW fanboy by any stretch of the imagination (but admit it is a great airport), that said:

From a purely biz standpoint, DTW has historically been DL's Asian gateway. Last time I checked, Mumbai is part of Asia. No disrespect to ATL, but it's Asia network is extremely weak for an airport of its size and has just started to play catch up to other airports (including DTW) with regard to Asia in the last few months.

Second, DL probably wants to put this route under the A350, and that automatically gives DTW an advantage as the biggest base for the type.

Additionally, DTW is better positioned than ATL for connections from all parts of the US to Mumbai and has stronger feed than JFK.

I think a lot of people are irrationally counting out DTW when I think it does have a real shot at landing this.
 
nmdrdh787
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:17 pm

dmorbust wrote:
winginit wrote:
Bastian did quite the roadshow today in Los Angeles while making a few appearances on national news as well. He made it pretty clear upon being asked that the BOM nonstop service would come from either JFK or ATL.

"We've announced it's going to be Mumbai, although we haven't announced that it's going to be from New York. Atlanta has a shot at it as well."


Are there still ATL incentives for any carrier launching direct flights to India? I remember seeing them a few years ago - they were not limited to India, but rather various regions including India and would result in a 2 year waiver of landing fees: https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayint ... s/8044785/

One potential reason DL hasn't announced JFK versus ATL yet is because they may be trying to negotiate for the greatest incentives possible.


Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:03 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
dmorbust wrote:
winginit wrote:
Bastian did quite the roadshow today in Los Angeles while making a few appearances on national news as well. He made it pretty clear upon being asked that the BOM nonstop service would come from either JFK or ATL.

"We've announced it's going to be Mumbai, although we haven't announced that it's going to be from New York. Atlanta has a shot at it as well."


Are there still ATL incentives for any carrier launching direct flights to India? I remember seeing them a few years ago - they were not limited to India, but rather various regions including India and would result in a 2 year waiver of landing fees: https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayint ... s/8044785/

One potential reason DL hasn't announced JFK versus ATL yet is because they may be trying to negotiate for the greatest incentives possible.


Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.


Good point - could be incentives. While I do think DTW could be in the running, it is not because DTW is their "Asian" gateway (like an earlier poster said). DTW is perhaps DL's "Pacific" or "Far East" gateway for the North East but BOM, DXB & TLV (all never flown nonstop from DTW but all part of Asia) are not part of the Pacific/Far East. The Middle East and India have historically been seen as transatlantic flights from the East Coast. That said, let's see there are compelling arguments for JFK, ATL and DTW.
 
Lootess
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:09 pm

winginit wrote:
Bastian did quite the roadshow today in Los Angeles while making a few appearances on national news as well. He made it pretty clear upon being asked that the BOM nonstop service would come from either JFK or ATL.

"We've announced it's going to be Mumbai, although we haven't announced that it's going to be from New York. Atlanta has a shot at it as well."


Yet, the DTW fanboys keep denying this was said.

I'd put a bet on resuming ATL-BOM on the 777LR.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6074
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:22 pm

Lootess wrote:
...
I'd put a bet on resuming ATL-BOM on the 777LR.


Right after Georgia restores all fuel tax incentives and an apology letter from governor and legislature to Ed Bastian.
 
Lootess
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:31 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Lootess wrote:
...
I'd put a bet on resuming ATL-BOM on the 777LR.


Right after Georgia restores all fuel tax incentives and an apology letter from governor and legislature to Ed Bastian.


Ed apparently didn't mind losing the incentives over the NRA discount, as proven in this interview. Delta's values are not for sale. Best line he could have ever used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4bVbzUL5aI

ATL is in the running, the haters don't like to hear that.
 
evank516
Posts: 1461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:47 pm

neomax wrote:
I am not a DTW fanboy by any stretch of the imagination (but admit it is a great airport), that said:

From a purely biz standpoint, DTW has historically been DL's Asian gateway. Last time I checked, Mumbai is part of Asia. No disrespect to ATL, but it's Asia network is extremely weak for an airport of its size and has just started to play catch up to other airports (including DTW) with regard to Asia in the last few months.

Second, DL probably wants to put this route under the A350, and that automatically gives DTW an advantage as the biggest base for the type.

Additionally, DTW is better positioned than ATL for connections from all parts of the US to Mumbai and has stronger feed than JFK.

I think a lot of people are irrationally counting out DTW when I think it does have a real shot at landing this.


No it doesn't. It's not irrational by any means to write DTW off either. It will be either New York or Atlanta, just like it was before. With the heavy O&D Traffic in NY and ATL being DL's largest hub, these are the two that have the shot. DL wants to fly the route from where it will attract the most passengers, not to mention the possibility of joining UA again with the NYC-India Market, potentially steal passengers from the ME3 (and Air India, which shouldn't be too hard) by avoiding the stopover in AUH, DOH, or DXB and still offering a decent product. That can't be done from DTW. It's written off.
 
winginit
Posts: 1580
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:03 pm

evank516 wrote:
neomax wrote:
I am not a DTW fanboy by any stretch of the imagination (but admit it is a great airport), that said:

From a purely biz standpoint, DTW has historically been DL's Asian gateway. Last time I checked, Mumbai is part of Asia. No disrespect to ATL, but it's Asia network is extremely weak for an airport of its size and has just started to play catch up to other airports (including DTW) with regard to Asia in the last few months.

Second, DL probably wants to put this route under the A350, and that automatically gives DTW an advantage as the biggest base for the type.

Additionally, DTW is better positioned than ATL for connections from all parts of the US to Mumbai and has stronger feed than JFK.

I think a lot of people are irrationally counting out DTW when I think it does have a real shot at landing this.


No it doesn't. It's not irrational by any means to write DTW off either. It will be either New York or Atlanta, just like it was before.


Exactly - it couldn't have been more clear from Ed himself - this route will be served from either JFK or ATL. Period. The End.
 
klm617
Posts: 3166
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:27 pm

evank516 wrote:
neomax wrote:
I am not a DTW fanboy by any stretch of the imagination (but admit it is a great airport), that said:

From a purely biz standpoint, DTW has historically been DL's Asian gateway. Last time I checked, Mumbai is part of Asia. No disrespect to ATL, but it's Asia network is extremely weak for an airport of its size and has just started to play catch up to other airports (including DTW) with regard to Asia in the last few months.

Second, DL probably wants to put this route under the A350, and that automatically gives DTW an advantage as the biggest base for the type.

Additionally, DTW is better positioned than ATL for connections from all parts of the US to Mumbai and has stronger feed than JFK.

I think a lot of people are irrationally counting out DTW when I think it does have a real shot at landing this.


No it doesn't. It's not irrational by any means to write DTW off either. It will be either New York or Atlanta, just like it was before. With the heavy O&D Traffic in NY and ATL being DL's largest hub, these are the two that have the shot. DL wants to fly the route from where it will attract the most passengers, not to mention the possibility of joining UA again with the NYC-India Market, potentially steal passengers from the ME3 (and Air India, which shouldn't be too hard) by avoiding the stopover in AUH, DOH, or DXB and still offering a decent product. That can't be done from DTW. It's written off.



It can do that all at DTW plus it has the entire market share to itself. Saying it wants to steal passengers away is just foolish why it it want to do that when it can create it's own market on DTW-BOM. While yes it will probably chose ATL or JFK for the long haul DTW would far and away be the best choice to launch this route. Most fuel efficient aircraft based there plus NO competition. Delta would have a very hard time rotating the A350 out of ATL or JFK. The are not going to take 2 frames out of the rotation just to use it on BOM from either JFK or ATL.. Detroit also sit's more on the way for Delta connections to India than Atlanta. The 2 best options for Delta to India are DTW and JFK they cover the entire network with no out of the way connections.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6074
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:37 pm

evank516 wrote:
....
No it doesn't. It's not irrational by any means to write DTW off either. It will be either New York or Atlanta, just like it was before. With the heavy O&D Traffic in NY and ATL being DL's largest hub, these are the two that have the shot. DL wants to fly the route from where it will attract the most passengers, not to mention the possibility of joining UA again with the NYC-India Market, potentially steal passengers from the ME3 (and Air India, which shouldn't be too hard) by avoiding the stopover in AUH, DOH, or DXB and still offering a decent product. That can't be done from DTW. It's written off.


Can you count number of posts out of 300+ by so called DTW fanboys demanding DTW-India.

First of all no one is debating the viability of JFK-India market.

You guys are unnecessarily throwing tantrum, blaming DTW fanboys, chasing imaginary bees, reporting the posts and mods are deleting posts with useful data.
 
evank516
Posts: 1461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:21 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
evank516 wrote:
....
No it doesn't. It's not irrational by any means to write DTW off either. It will be either New York or Atlanta, just like it was before. With the heavy O&D Traffic in NY and ATL being DL's largest hub, these are the two that have the shot. DL wants to fly the route from where it will attract the most passengers, not to mention the possibility of joining UA again with the NYC-India Market, potentially steal passengers from the ME3 (and Air India, which shouldn't be too hard) by avoiding the stopover in AUH, DOH, or DXB and still offering a decent product. That can't be done from DTW. It's written off.


Can you count number of posts out of 300+ by so called DTW fanboys demanding DTW-India.

First of all no one is debating the viability of JFK-India market.

You guys are unnecessarily throwing tantrum, blaming DTW fanboys, chasing imaginary bees, reporting the posts and mods are deleting posts with useful data.
klm617 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
neomax wrote:
I am not a DTW fanboy by any stretch of the imagination (but admit it is a great airport), that said:

From a purely biz standpoint, DTW has historically been DL's Asian gateway. Last time I checked, Mumbai is part of Asia. No disrespect to ATL, but it's Asia network is extremely weak for an airport of its size and has just started to play catch up to other airports (including DTW) with regard to Asia in the last few months.

Second, DL probably wants to put this route under the A350, and that automatically gives DTW an advantage as the biggest base for the type.

Additionally, DTW is better positioned than ATL for connections from all parts of the US to Mumbai and has stronger feed than JFK.

I think a lot of people are irrationally counting out DTW when I think it does have a real shot at landing this.


No it doesn't. It's not irrational by any means to write DTW off either. It will be either New York or Atlanta, just like it was before. With the heavy O&D Traffic in NY and ATL being DL's largest hub, these are the two that have the shot. DL wants to fly the route from where it will attract the most passengers, not to mention the possibility of joining UA again with the NYC-India Market, potentially steal passengers from the ME3 (and Air India, which shouldn't be too hard) by avoiding the stopover in AUH, DOH, or DXB and still offering a decent product. That can't be done from DTW. It's written off.



It can do that all at DTW plus it has the entire market share to itself. Saying it wants to steal passengers away is just foolish why it it want to do that when it can create it's own market on DTW-BOM. While yes it will probably chose ATL or JFK for the long haul DTW would far and away be the best choice to launch this route. Most fuel efficient aircraft based there plus NO competition. Delta would have a very hard time rotating the A350 out of ATL or JFK. The are not going to take 2 frames out of the rotation just to use it on BOM from either JFK or ATL.. Detroit also sit's more on the way for Delta connections to India than Atlanta. The 2 best options for Delta to India are DTW and JFK they cover the entire network with no out of the way connections.


How is it foolish for DL to want to compete against the ME3 an an airport where they actually do have the largest market share (JFK)? Let's face it, JFK is probably the most lucrative, but ATL has flights from the majority of DL's network. It's easier to get the aircraft, it probably has the largest crew base as well. The problem is, who is going to fly JFK-ATL-BOM? The flight path would basically back track over New York. The same question goes for DTW, who will fly JFK-DTW-BOM? Absolutely no one. It's still out of the way since the general path to India is similar to transatlantic flights until you hit Europe. In all honesty, I really think it's going to be JFK, but no one is throwing tantrums over the fact that DTW-BOM just isn't going to happen.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6074
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:30 pm

evank516 wrote:
...but no one is throwing tantrums over the fact that DTW-BOM just isn't going to happen.


That may be a majority opinion, not a fact.
 
jordanh
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:50 pm

evank516 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
evank516 wrote:
....
No it doesn't. It's not irrational by any means to write DTW off either. It will be either New York or Atlanta, just like it was before. With the heavy O&D Traffic in NY and ATL being DL's largest hub, these are the two that have the shot. DL wants to fly the route from where it will attract the most passengers, not to mention the possibility of joining UA again with the NYC-India Market, potentially steal passengers from the ME3 (and Air India, which shouldn't be too hard) by avoiding the stopover in AUH, DOH, or DXB and still offering a decent product. That can't be done from DTW. It's written off.

Can you count number of posts out of 300+ by so called DTW fanboys demanding DTW-India.
First of all no one is debating the viability of JFK-India market.
You guys are unnecessarily throwing tantrum, blaming DTW fanboys, chasing imaginary bees, reporting the posts and mods are deleting posts with useful data.
klm617 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
No it doesn't. It's not irrational by any means to write DTW off either. It will be either New York or Atlanta, just like it was before. With the heavy O&D Traffic in NY and ATL being DL's largest hub, these are the two that have the shot. DL wants to fly the route from where it will attract the most passengers, not to mention the possibility of joining UA again with the NYC-India Market, potentially steal passengers from the ME3 (and Air India, which shouldn't be too hard) by avoiding the stopover in AUH, DOH, or DXB and still offering a decent product. That can't be done from DTW. It's written off.

It can do that all at DTW plus it has the entire market share to itself. Saying it wants to steal passengers away is just foolish why it it want to do that when it can create it's own market on DTW-BOM. While yes it will probably chose ATL or JFK for the long haul DTW would far and away be the best choice to launch this route. Most fuel efficient aircraft based there plus NO competition. Delta would have a very hard time rotating the A350 out of ATL or JFK. The are not going to take 2 frames out of the rotation just to use it on BOM from either JFK or ATL.. Detroit also sit's more on the way for Delta connections to India than Atlanta. The 2 best options for Delta to India are DTW and JFK they cover the entire network with no out of the way connections.

How is it foolish for DL to want to compete against the ME3 an an airport where they actually do have the largest market share (JFK)? Let's face it, JFK is probably the most lucrative, but ATL has flights from the majority of DL's network. It's easier to get the aircraft, it probably has the largest crew base as well. The problem is, who is going to fly JFK-ATL-BOM? The flight path would basically back track over New York. The same question goes for DTW, who will fly JFK-DTW-BOM? Absolutely no one. It's still out of the way since the general path to India is similar to transatlantic flights until you hit Europe. In all honesty, I really think it's going to be JFK, but no one is throwing tantrums over the fact that DTW-BOM just isn't going to happen.


:checkmark: Unfortunately, your post makes too much sense for some people who wear blinders here...

ATL-BOM would almost overfly JFK; there is no reason for that. DTW would d the same, minus the markets that are better-served from ATL and JFK. Detroit won't be - and shouldn't be - even a close third choice.
 
winginit
Posts: 1580
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:32 pm

klm617 wrote:
While yes it will probably chose ATL or JFK for the long haul DTW would far and away be the best choice to launch this route.


That's your opinion with no supplementary data whatsoever, and you opinion is up against an army of professional network planners with more data than you could sift through in your entire life. The route will be launched from ATL or JFK, and thus your opinion has been professionally deemed one that is incorrect.
 
Lootess
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:33 pm

jordanh wrote:
evank516 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Can you count number of posts out of 300+ by so called DTW fanboys demanding DTW-India.
First of all no one is debating the viability of JFK-India market.
You guys are unnecessarily throwing tantrum, blaming DTW fanboys, chasing imaginary bees, reporting the posts and mods are deleting posts with useful data.
klm617 wrote:
It can do that all at DTW plus it has the entire market share to itself. Saying it wants to steal passengers away is just foolish why it it want to do that when it can create it's own market on DTW-BOM. While yes it will probably chose ATL or JFK for the long haul DTW would far and away be the best choice to launch this route. Most fuel efficient aircraft based there plus NO competition. Delta would have a very hard time rotating the A350 out of ATL or JFK. The are not going to take 2 frames out of the rotation just to use it on BOM from either JFK or ATL.. Detroit also sit's more on the way for Delta connections to India than Atlanta. The 2 best options for Delta to India are DTW and JFK they cover the entire network with no out of the way connections.

How is it foolish for DL to want to compete against the ME3 an an airport where they actually do have the largest market share (JFK)? Let's face it, JFK is probably the most lucrative, but ATL has flights from the majority of DL's network. It's easier to get the aircraft, it probably has the largest crew base as well. The problem is, who is going to fly JFK-ATL-BOM? The flight path would basically back track over New York. The same question goes for DTW, who will fly JFK-DTW-BOM? Absolutely no one. It's still out of the way since the general path to India is similar to transatlantic flights until you hit Europe. In all honesty, I really think it's going to be JFK, but no one is throwing tantrums over the fact that DTW-BOM just isn't going to happen.


:checkmark: Unfortunately, your post makes too much sense for some people who wear blinders here...

ATL-BOM would almost overfly JFK; there is no reason for that. DTW would d the same, minus the markets that are better-served from ATL and JFK. Detroit won't be - and shouldn't be - even a close third choice.


My favorite illogical reasoning is that DTW is the de-facto "Asian" gateway. All it has NGO and PEK, soon to be the only two routes that ATL doesn't have.
 
jordanh
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:37 pm

Lootess wrote:
jordanh wrote:
evank516 wrote:
How is it foolish for DL to want to compete against the ME3 an an airport where they actually do have the largest market share (JFK)? Let's face it, JFK is probably the most lucrative, but ATL has flights from the majority of DL's network. It's easier to get the aircraft, it probably has the largest crew base as well. The problem is, who is going to fly JFK-ATL-BOM? The flight path would basically back track over New York. The same question goes for DTW, who will fly JFK-DTW-BOM? Absolutely no one. It's still out of the way since the general path to India is similar to transatlantic flights until you hit Europe. In all honesty, I really think it's going to be JFK, but no one is throwing tantrums over the fact that DTW-BOM just isn't going to happen.

:checkmark: Unfortunately, your post makes too much sense for some people who wear blinders here...
ATL-BOM would almost overfly JFK; there is no reason for that. DTW would d the same, minus the markets that are better-served from ATL and JFK. Detroit won't be - and shouldn't be - even a close third choice.

My favorite illogical reasoning is that DTW is the de-facto "Asian" gateway. All it has NGO and PEK, soon to be the only two routes that ATL doesn't have.

:checkmark: And while India may technically be in Asia, most passengers would never consider it to be an Asian destination. Detroit's Asian flights travel westbound, and collect passengers from east coast cities and aggregate them in DTW; this flight will undoubtedly go eastbound instead, totally obliterating any reason to collect passengers in DTW.

India is usually defined as a part of the "Indian Subcontinent" these days; it is so culturally and economically separated from other Asian countries that it a completely separate entity. Using an arbitrary geographic name to determine where a flight should originate is beyond ludicrous.
Last edited by jordanh on Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
evank516
Posts: 1461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:44 pm

jordanh wrote:
Lootess wrote:
jordanh wrote:
:checkmark: Unfortunately, your post makes too much sense for some people who wear blinders here...
ATL-BOM would almost overfly JFK; there is no reason for that. DTW would d the same, minus the markets that are better-served from ATL and JFK. Detroit won't be - and shouldn't be - even a close third choice.

My favorite illogical reasoning is that DTW is the de-facto "Asian" gateway. All it has NGO and PEK, soon to be the only two routes that ATL doesn't have.

:checkmark: And while India may technically be in Asia, most passengers would never consider it to be an Asian destination. DTW's Asian flights travel westbound; this will undoubtedly go eastbound instead.

India is usually defined as a part of the "Indian Subcontinent" these days; it is so culturally and economically separated from other Asian countries that it a completely separate entity. Using an arbitrary geographic name to determine where a flight should originate is beyond ludicrous.


It's also a completely different market and completely different group of travelers. The Northeast has pretty heavy ties with India in terms of immigration and family ties back there. Forcing all of DL's traffic through DTW just isn't economical and will probably cause them to lose business.
 
jordanh
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:07 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Floor prices: TK-$700, ME3 $800, UA highest, AI is the middle of UA and ME3.

What is UA's fare? How much more does its nonstop option earn?
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6074
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:09 pm

LaxDude and others posted lot of data, which has been sanitized to shape the discussion.

NYC(not JFK)-India PDEW data not available
NYC(not JFK)-BOM PDEW is 380,
Current daily non-stop capacity - 500,
Lots of one stop options - 35 Indian cities thru DEL, ~12 India cities thru DXB,DOH,AUH
Floor prices: TK-$700, ME3 $800, UA highest, AI is the middle of UA and ME3.
GC distance 7799 mi

ATL-India PDEW 180
ATL-BOM - PDEW - 45
One stop to 12 Indian cities thru DOH
Floor price - $850
GC distance - 8510 mi

DTW-India PDEW 140 (110 and 150 were also posted)
DTW-BOM - PDEW - 28
One stops to 4 Indian cities DEL,BOM,MAA,BLR
Floor price - $1100
GC distance - 7949 mi
 
klm617
Posts: 3166
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:48 pm

jordanh wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Floor prices: TK-$700, ME3 $800, UA highest, AI is the middle of UA and ME3.

What is UA's fare? How much more does its nonstop option earn?



That means absolutly nothing because I assure you if I can save $600 a ticket nonstop means nothing to me I'm flying one of the ME3 for the better fare. The only higher fares Delta is going to get are when the ME3 flights out of the NY aera are all fully booked and people have no other choice but to take the Delta nonstop and the fare they are charging.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 3166
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:50 pm

Lootess wrote:
jordanh wrote:
evank516 wrote:
How is it foolish for DL to want to compete against the ME3 an an airport where they actually do have the largest market share (JFK)? Let's face it, JFK is probably the most lucrative, but ATL has flights from the majority of DL's network. It's easier to get the aircraft, it probably has the largest crew base as well. The problem is, who is going to fly JFK-ATL-BOM? The flight path would basically back track over New York. The same question goes for DTW, who will fly JFK-DTW-BOM? Absolutely no one. It's still out of the way since the general path to India is similar to transatlantic flights until you hit Europe. In all honesty, I really think it's going to be JFK, but no one is throwing tantrums over the fact that DTW-BOM just isn't going to happen.


:checkmark: Unfortunately, your post makes too much sense for some people who wear blinders here...

ATL-BOM would almost overfly JFK; there is no reason for that. DTW would d the same, minus the markets that are better-served from ATL and JFK. Detroit won't be - and shouldn't be - even a close third choice.


My favorite illogical reasoning is that DTW is the de-facto "Asian" gateway. All it has NGO and PEK, soon to be the only two routes that ATL doesn't have.


You are completely right DTW is no longer the Asian de-facto gateway for Delta that
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 3166
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:52 pm

jordanh wrote:
evank516 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Can you count number of posts out of 300+ by so called DTW fanboys demanding DTW-India.
First of all no one is debating the viability of JFK-India market.
You guys are unnecessarily throwing tantrum, blaming DTW fanboys, chasing imaginary bees, reporting the posts and mods are deleting posts with useful data.
klm617 wrote:
It can do that all at DTW plus it has the entire market share to itself. Saying it wants to steal passengers away is just foolish why it it want to do that when it can create it's own market on DTW-BOM. While yes it will probably chose ATL or JFK for the long haul DTW would far and away be the best choice to launch this route. Most fuel efficient aircraft based there plus NO competition. Delta would have a very hard time rotating the A350 out of ATL or JFK. The are not going to take 2 frames out of the rotation just to use it on BOM from either JFK or ATL.. Detroit also sit's more on the way for Delta connections to India than Atlanta. The 2 best options for Delta to India are DTW and JFK they cover the entire network with no out of the way connections.

How is it foolish for DL to want to compete against the ME3 an an airport where they actually do have the largest market share (JFK)? Let's face it, JFK is probably the most lucrative, but ATL has flights from the majority of DL's network. It's easier to get the aircraft, it probably has the largest crew base as well. The problem is, who is going to fly JFK-ATL-BOM? The flight path would basically back track over New York. The same question goes for DTW, who will fly JFK-DTW-BOM? Absolutely no one. It's still out of the way since the general path to India is similar to transatlantic flights until you hit Europe. In all honesty, I really think it's going to be JFK, but no one is throwing tantrums over the fact that DTW-BOM just isn't going to happen.


:checkmark: Unfortunately, your post makes too much sense for some people who wear blinders here...

ATL-BOM would almost overfly JFK; there is no reason for that. DTW would d the same, minus the markets that are better-served from ATL and JFK. Detroit won't be - and shouldn't be - even a close third choice.



There is no major US city that can be connected over ATL. DTW-JFK are far and away better options for connections to India than ATL is plus DTW and JFK are much shorter stage lengths than ATL is from India.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:56 pm

CaliguyNYC is more familiar with NYC market. I believe around $1,500
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Article Questions DL's Stated Reasons for Returning to India

Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:52 am

LAX772LR wrote:
No one and nothing is "forcing" them to do anything.

And multi-billion dollar public corporations generally don't waste multi-million dollar assets, on "saving face".... shareholders tend to get just a bitttt antsy at such.


"Forcing" might be a little strong, but at minimum DL was been compelled by their own petard. They painted themselves into a corner. When the agreement came out and knowledgeable people saw that it did nothing to change the competitive landscape, DL had no get out of jail free card. One option was to admit defeat in that the agreement didn't change the operating landscape, and hence India flights would not be on the radar. But that would take a great deal of humility to their base and paint their efforts as a waste, so not surprisingly that wasn't chosen. Another option was to deny defeat and say it was a victory, but then not start service because the underlying economics aren't there. Obviously that wouldn't be viewed well by anyone as hypocritical. A final option was the one they chose, where they absurdly claim victory, and then they compound that by announcing future service to India. On the surface some ignorant people will take their word for it, but those with some knowledge of the situation will now they've now just admitted one of two things. Either they will fly what they believed was a route not worth serving to India to save face (wasting money and assets in their view), or they weren't flying a route to India that they believed was worth serving simply because of politics (also likely costing them money). Neither is an attractive action, but that's what they've now done. They've admitted they did or will cost themselves money on this charade.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:55 am

Lootess wrote:
My favorite illogical reasoning is that DTW is the de-facto "Asian" gateway. All it has NGO and PEK, soon to be the only two routes that ATL doesn't have.


The logical reason for DL to consider DTW is that they have tried and failed with JFK-India and ATL-India, and have not tried DTW. But they've also already made clear the route will be either JFK or ATL.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Article Questions DL's Stated Reasons for Returning to India

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:00 am

MSPNWA wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
No one and nothing is "forcing" them to do anything.

And multi-billion dollar public corporations generally don't waste multi-million dollar assets, on "saving face".... shareholders tend to get just a bitttt antsy at such.


"Forcing" might be a little strong, but at minimum DL was been compelled by their own petard. They painted themselves into a corner. When the agreement came out and knowledgeable people saw that it did nothing to change the competitive landscape, DL had no get out of jail free card. One option was to admit defeat in that the agreement didn't change the operating landscape, and hence India flights would not be on the radar. But that would take a great deal of humility to their base and paint their efforts as a waste, so not surprisingly that wasn't chosen.


Exactly. Shareholders tend to get antsy when public corporations waste millions of dollars lobbying and creating PR campaigns (including ridiculous videos) that don't generate any results. While the agreement is irrelevant to a US-India flight, it's an opportunity to claim victory from defeat and show shareholders (who may not pay attention to details) that the lobbying and PR investment has paid off.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:09 am

IPFreely wrote:
The logical reason for DL to consider DTW is that they have tried and failed with JFK-India and ATL-India, and have not tried DTW

The funny thing is that you probably wrote that with a straight face. :razz:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:20 am

klm617 wrote:
jordanh wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Floor prices: TK-$700, ME3 $800, UA highest, AI is the middle of UA and ME3.

What is UA's fare? How much more does its nonstop option earn?



That means absolutly nothing because I assure you if I can save $600 a ticket nonstop means nothing to me I'm flying one of the ME3 for the better fare. The only higher fares Delta is going to get are when the ME3 flights out of the NY aera are all fully booked and people have no other choice but to take the Delta nonstop and the fare they are charging.


First rule of marketing never market to yourself. You might not care, but you are not the market. Delta is not going after the bottom barrel traveler wanting the cheapest fare. If you look at DL’s nonstop EU flights they are always at a premium to the one stops. And surprise surprise many of us chose the nonstop. Why because NYC is one of the most affluent markets in the country. WRT India travelers - business travelers want the nonstop and miles. Skyteam elites will absolutely pay a premium for the DL nonstop. VFR - well the middle class families will probably chose the one stop and save $$$ for a family of four. But NYC-India (and BOM in particular) is a large market with very highly educated and affluent people. Right from the 60’s NYC-BOM has always had well healed travelers. India (and BOM) on Anet has some weird urban legend view that it is 100% low budget price sensitive market like NYC-Haiti or DR. Come on. As I have said before, Indians want convient nonstop flights just like everyone else. Landing at 3am is not for everyone. Transiting in the EU is not for everyone and transiting in the Middle East is absolutely not for everyone. Do some poeple not care. Yup and they can fly the ME3. For those of us who map to normal American travel needs, a DL nonstop is exactly what this large and diverse market wants. For gods sake AI is getting a premium for nonstops. EY is canceling one of their JFK flights and lowering LAX. So much for the false notion that Indians are dying to connect in the Middle East. Truth is for most American origin Indians, and especially those from BOM (who have aleways had choices), the ME is flyover territory.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:27 am

IPFreely wrote:
Lootess wrote:
My favorite illogical reasoning is that DTW is the de-facto "Asian" gateway. All it has NGO and PEK, soon to be the only two routes that ATL doesn't have.


The logical reason for DL to consider DTW is that they have tried and failed with JFK-India and ATL-India, and have not tried DTW. But they've also already made clear the route will be either JFK or ATL.


Let me understand this:

1) NYC, the largest market in the US failed.
2) ATL, the largest hub in the world failed.
3) DTW hasn’t failed (yet)?

DL has a fiduciary responsibility to its owners (shareholders), and will make a prudent business decision. The market has changed significantly since DL last tried India nonstop. If JFK and ATL don’t work, I don’t see why DTW, MSP, SEA, or SLC would work for DL.
 
Lootess
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:55 am

nomorerjs wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
Lootess wrote:
My favorite illogical reasoning is that DTW is the de-facto "Asian" gateway. All it has NGO and PEK, soon to be the only two routes that ATL doesn't have.


The logical reason for DL to consider DTW is that they have tried and failed with JFK-India and ATL-India, and have not tried DTW. But they've also already made clear the route will be either JFK or ATL.


Let me understand this:

1) NYC, the largest market in the US failed.
2) ATL, the largest hub in the world failed.
3) DTW hasn’t failed (yet)?

DL has a fiduciary responsibility to its owners (shareholders), and will make a prudent business decision. The market has changed significantly since DL last tried India nonstop. If JFK and ATL don’t work, I don’t see why DTW, MSP, SEA, or SLC would work for DL.


Yep, the market is different now. ATL-ICN, ATL-PVG coming back is also a reflection of that.

Also, remember DL was the first carrier to launch JFK-BOM over 10 years ago. Just look at this DL 2006-2007 growing globally video! When they went all-in on international expansion with Africa and India. Many of those routes exist today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKTEnOg-6k0
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:03 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
...
First rule of marketing never market to yourself. You might not care, but you are not the market. Delta is not going after the bottom barrel traveler wanting the cheapest fare. If you look at DL’s nonstop EU flights they are always at a premium to the one stops. And surprise surprise many of us chose the nonstop. Why because NYC is one of the most affluent markets in the country. WRT India travelers - business travelers want the nonstop and miles. Skyteam elites will absolutely pay a premium for the DL nonstop. VFR - well the middle class families will probably chose the one stop and save $$$ for a family of four. But NYC-India (and BOM in particular) is a large market with very highly educated and affluent people. Right from the 60’s NYC-BOM has always had well healed travelers. India (and BOM) on Anet has some weird urban legend view that it is 100% low budget price sensitive market like NYC-Haiti or DR. Come on. As I have said before, Indians want convient nonstop flights just like everyone else. Landing at 3am is not for everyone. Transiting in the EU is not for everyone and transiting in the Middle East is absolutely not for everyone. Do some poeple not care. Yup and they can fly the ME3. For those of us who map to normal American travel needs, a DL nonstop is exactly what this large and diverse market wants. For gods sake AI is getting a premium for nonstops. EY is canceling one of their JFK flights and lowering LAX. So much for the false notion that Indians are dying to connect in the Middle East. Truth is for most American origin Indians, and especially those from BOM (who have aleways had choices), the ME is flyover territory.


While there is no question NYC market is large and affluent, it definitely is not under served. I think a route cannot be viable just based on premium cabin yields, good economy cabin yields is a must.

NYC is not just JFK. Non-SkyTeam pax from NJ would not fly DL@JFK, for the same reason you don't want to go to UA@EWR.

NYC market is a mud pit, DL has to jump in and fight for its share.
 
evank516
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:11 pm

IPFreely wrote:
Lootess wrote:
My favorite illogical reasoning is that DTW is the de-facto "Asian" gateway. All it has NGO and PEK, soon to be the only two routes that ATL doesn't have.


The logical reason for DL to consider DTW is that they have tried and failed with JFK-India and ATL-India, and have not tried DTW. But they've also already made clear the route will be either JFK or ATL.


Except they didn't have the partnership with Jet Airways back then either.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:13 pm

evank516 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
Lootess wrote:
My favorite illogical reasoning is that DTW is the de-facto "Asian" gateway. All it has NGO and PEK, soon to be the only two routes that ATL doesn't have.


The logical reason for DL to consider DTW is that they have tried and failed with JFK-India and ATL-India, and have not tried DTW. But they've also already made clear the route will be either JFK or ATL.


Except they didn't have the partnership with Jet Airways back then either.


Exactly and, to say it again, 10 years ago Indian and Chinese aviation was very different. I don't know what 10 years ago has to do with today when discussing rapidly developing markets. It is totally not relevant what happened to DL back in 2007.

wrt DTW2HYD's comment - I agree. Very few people from NJ will come to JFK for this flight. NYC metro is more than double the size of Chicago. Plus there is ton of business and personal connections between BOM and NYC. Even Indians off to see relatives in small US cities like to stop in NYC. DL will probably have J, premium Y and Y on this new flight. I think premium Y will also help their yields a lot. Flights to India are long and while many Indian/Indian-American professionals can't afford a $4-$10k J class ticket, they can afford a $2500 premium Y. And yes NYC is competitive. If price was all that mattered everyone would fly Air China's $550 JFK-PEK-BOM or Kuwait/TK's $750 flights. But these three airlines are not even close to being people's go to from the US-India. So let's see (btw I can see the case for JFK, ATL & DTW).
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:38 pm

Prediction Ed Bastian "Rising fuel prices cause Delta to put India plans on hold"
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
IPFreely
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:04 am

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
While yes it will probably chose ATL or JFK for the long haul DTW would far and away be the best choice to launch this route.


That's your opinion with no supplementary data whatsoever, and you opinion is up against an army of professional network planners with more data than you could sift through in your entire life. The route will be launched from ATL or JFK, and thus your opinion has been professionally deemed one that is incorrect.


The last time DL flew to India these so-called professional network planners sifted through data and professionally selected a route that failed. After it failed these so-called professionals repeated their professional process and selected another route that failed. Given the track record of these professionals, I wouldn't deem klm to be incorrect.
 
axiom
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:08 am

So this is still the DTW thread. FFS.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:01 am

axiom wrote:
So this is still the DTW thread. FFS.


Every thread becomes the DTW thread. It’s getting old.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:05 am

nomorerjs wrote:
axiom wrote:
So this is still the DTW thread. FFS.


Every thread becomes the DTW thread. It’s getting old.


Agreed. DTW fanboys should be thankful it even has the level of service it has and not whine about the fact that they deserve more foreign carriers or routes to destinations not even bigger markets have.
 
muralir
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:13 am

As an ORD guy I have no dog in this race of who gets the origin, but I'm curious why they wouldn't decide on somewhere else like BLR or MAA on the India side. If the whole point is to focus on premium O&D (since connecting traffic from the rest of the country have plenty of 1-stop options) and offer a nonstop at a higher yield than the numerous 1-stops available, why choose BOM, where you'll be competing with UA and AI? Why not go for another big destination like BLR and MAA. There's probably enough O&D traffic to those markets from the NYC area that it could work, rather than duke it with UA / AI for premium non-stop travelers to BOM.

To look at it another way: is the NYC-BOM nonstop O&D traffic demand 3 times as much as BLR / MAA such that adding a third flight still yields better traffic than offering the first nonstop to south India?

(And to the DTW fans out there, I'm half serious when I say *ORD* would be a better choice for DL than DTW: this flight is all about O&D traffic that's willing to pay a premium for a nonstop. Which means the size of the city is much more important than connection flows, which is why JFK is the odds-on favorite. If you're depending on people to connect through DTW, why wouldn't they just take one of nearly a dozen other 1 stop options instead?)
 
Lootess
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:14 am

IPFreely wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
While yes it will probably chose ATL or JFK for the long haul DTW would far and away be the best choice to launch this route.


That's your opinion with no supplementary data whatsoever, and you opinion is up against an army of professional network planners with more data than you could sift through in your entire life. The route will be launched from ATL or JFK, and thus your opinion has been professionally deemed one that is incorrect.


The last time DL flew to India these so-called professional network planners sifted through data and professionally selected a route that failed. After it failed these so-called professionals repeated their professional process and selected another route that failed. Given the track record of these professionals, I wouldn't deem klm to be incorrect.


Failed without context. Economy downturn, war in middle east, Air India, Continental, and ME3 airlines getting into the fray. Yields went into the trash.

More A350s coming online which are also freeing up 777LRs in the fleet for interior overhauls, expansion, and Jet Airways in the Delta fold. This is a common sense decision at this point.
Last edited by Lootess on Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:48 am

muralir wrote:
As an ORD guy I have no dog in this race of who gets the origin, but I'm curious why they wouldn't decide on somewhere else like BLR or MAA on the India side. If the whole point is to focus on premium O&D (since connecting traffic from the rest of the country have plenty of 1-stop options) and offer a nonstop at a higher yield than the numerous 1-stops available, why choose BOM, where you'll be competing with UA and AI? Why not go for another big destination like BLR and MAA. There's probably enough O&D traffic to those markets from the NYC area that it could work, rather than duke it with UA / AI for premium non-stop travelers to BOM.

To look at it another way: is the NYC-BOM nonstop O&D traffic demand 3 times as much as BLR / MAA such that adding a third flight still yields better traffic than offering the first nonstop to south India?

(And to the DTW fans out there, I'm half serious when I say *ORD* would be a better choice for DL than DTW: this flight is all about O&D traffic that's willing to pay a premium for a nonstop. Which means the size of the city is much more important than connection flows, which is why JFK is the odds-on favorite. If you're depending on people to connect through DTW, why wouldn't they just take one of nearly a dozen other 1 stop options instead?)

Because BLR and MAA do not have O&D anywhere close to JFK-BOM. Also BLR and MAA are too far south to offer any convenient travel times to connections anywhere north of BOM.
BLR may probably have some demand but MAA definitely does not need a nonstop from USA. BLR at least has flights to AMS, CDG and FRA. MAA can barely sustain a flight to FRA

Also if we are looking at 1-stop options to the southern Indian cities other than BLR and MAA from JFK, there is the ME3
 
ADrum23
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:08 am

DTWLAX wrote:
muralir wrote:
As an ORD guy I have no dog in this race of who gets the origin, but I'm curious why they wouldn't decide on somewhere else like BLR or MAA on the India side. If the whole point is to focus on premium O&D (since connecting traffic from the rest of the country have plenty of 1-stop options) and offer a nonstop at a higher yield than the numerous 1-stops available, why choose BOM, where you'll be competing with UA and AI? Why not go for another big destination like BLR and MAA. There's probably enough O&D traffic to those markets from the NYC area that it could work, rather than duke it with UA / AI for premium non-stop travelers to BOM.

To look at it another way: is the NYC-BOM nonstop O&D traffic demand 3 times as much as BLR / MAA such that adding a third flight still yields better traffic than offering the first nonstop to south India?

(And to the DTW fans out there, I'm half serious when I say *ORD* would be a better choice for DL than DTW: this flight is all about O&D traffic that's willing to pay a premium for a nonstop. Which means the size of the city is much more important than connection flows, which is why JFK is the odds-on favorite. If you're depending on people to connect through DTW, why wouldn't they just take one of nearly a dozen other 1 stop options instead?)

Because BLR and MAA do not have O&D anywhere close to JFK-BOM. Also BLR and MAA are too far south to offer any convenient travel times to connections anywhere north of BOM.
BLR may probably have some demand but MAA definitely does not need a nonstop from USA. BLR at least has flights to AMS, CDG and FRA. MAA can barely sustain a flight to FRA

Also if we are looking at 1-stop options to the southern Indian cities other than BLR and MAA from JFK, there is the ME3


BLR doesn’t have a flight to AMS, it has LHR, CDG and FRA on BA, AF and LH respectively.

I do wonder when/if we’ll see a direct BLR-USA flight.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:17 am

ADrum23 wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
muralir wrote:
As an ORD guy I have no dog in this race of who gets the origin, but I'm curious why they wouldn't decide on somewhere else like BLR or MAA on the India side. If the whole point is to focus on premium O&D (since connecting traffic from the rest of the country have plenty of 1-stop options) and offer a nonstop at a higher yield than the numerous 1-stops available, why choose BOM, where you'll be competing with UA and AI? Why not go for another big destination like BLR and MAA. There's probably enough O&D traffic to those markets from the NYC area that it could work, rather than duke it with UA / AI for premium non-stop travelers to BOM.

To look at it another way: is the NYC-BOM nonstop O&D traffic demand 3 times as much as BLR / MAA such that adding a third flight still yields better traffic than offering the first nonstop to south India?

(And to the DTW fans out there, I'm half serious when I say *ORD* would be a better choice for DL than DTW: this flight is all about O&D traffic that's willing to pay a premium for a nonstop. Which means the size of the city is much more important than connection flows, which is why JFK is the odds-on favorite. If you're depending on people to connect through DTW, why wouldn't they just take one of nearly a dozen other 1 stop options instead?)

Because BLR and MAA do not have O&D anywhere close to JFK-BOM. Also BLR and MAA are too far south to offer any convenient travel times to connections anywhere north of BOM.
BLR may probably have some demand but MAA definitely does not need a nonstop from USA. BLR at least has flights to AMS, CDG and FRA. MAA can barely sustain a flight to FRA

Also if we are looking at 1-stop options to the southern Indian cities other than BLR and MAA from JFK, there is the ME3


BLR doesn’t have a flight to AMS, it has LHR, CDG and FRA on BA, AF and LH respectively.

I do wonder when/if we’ll see a direct BLR-USA flight.



9W flies BLR-AMS-BLR
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:31 am

ADrum23 wrote:

BLR doesn’t have a flight to AMS, it has LHR, CDG and FRA on BA, AF and LH respectively.

I do wonder when/if we’ll see a direct BLR-USA flight.

Yes it does. Jet Airways flies BLR-AMS
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:36 am

muralir wrote:

Also, MAA has european connections thru FRA, LHR, CDG (via Jet) but you're right, probably fewer O&D than BLR

That's correct. MAA does have FRA, LHR and CDG flights. I got confused between MAA and PNQ when I mentioned the flight to FRA
 
muralir
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 am

DTWLAX wrote:
Because BLR and MAA do not have O&D anywhere close to JFK-BOM. Also BLR and MAA are too far south to offer any convenient travel times to connections anywhere north of BOM.
BLR may probably have some demand but MAA definitely does not need a nonstop from USA. BLR at least has flights to AMS, CDG and FRA. MAA can barely sustain a flight to FRA

Also if we are looking at 1-stop options to the southern Indian cities other than BLR and MAA from JFK, there is the ME3


True, but is O&D to BOM *3 times* as much as to BLR or MAA? Given that there are already 2 direct flights to BOM from NYC (UA and AI) I'd assume that's the difference you'd need to make BOM worthwhile over choosing a city that's not served yet.

And BLR / MAA are well connected to the rest of south India. It's true that people going to points in North India would be better served transiting through BOM or DEL. But people going to south India (e.g. Kerala, rest of Tamil Nadu, etc.) would be well served from MAA (although no one uses MAA as a hub so there's likely no coordinated departure bank to minimize layover times).

Also, MAA has european connections thru FRA, LHR, CDG (via Jet) but you're right, probably fewer O&D than BLR
 
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binayak
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:22 am

muralir wrote:

True, but is O&D to BOM *3 times* as much as to BLR or MAA? Given that there are already 2 direct flights to BOM from NYC (UA and AI) I'd assume that's the difference you'd need to make BOM worthwhile over choosing a city that's not served yet.

And BLR / MAA are well connected to the rest of south India. It's true that people going to points in North India would be better served transiting through BOM or DEL. But people going to south India (e.g. Kerala, rest of Tamil Nadu, etc.) would be well served from MAA (although no one uses MAA as a hub so there's likely no coordinated departure bank to minimize layover times).

Also, MAA has european connections thru FRA, LHR, CDG (via Jet) but you're right, probably fewer O&D than BLR

You don't compare O&D in that way. There must be enough people who are ready to pay a premium for a non stop or premium pax. (As against what some people claim here) That's what makes Mumbai NYC quite lucrative.
And about connection remember that DL is banking on 9W for that. So MAA won't be a right choice. BLR is future hub for 9W. Therefore BOM.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:37 am

nomorerjs wrote:
axiom wrote:
So this is still the DTW thread. FFS.


Every thread becomes the DTW thread. It’s getting old.


Not any more or less than they become ATL threads when we are discussing Delta.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
toobz
Posts: 824
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:33 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:01 am

Because that is their largest hub!!! *smacks face multiple times* you really need to get over DTW and accept that it is no ATL in the eyes of senior management.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6074
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:09 am

toobz wrote:
.. in the eyes of senior management.


They won't go easy on someone snatched $40 Million from their revenue either.
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