Planeyguy
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Confirmed: Vistara ordering 6 789 and 13 A320series + options for each type

Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:00 am

"Vistara opted for six 787s with an option to buy four more, according to the people, who asked not to be identified as the information isn’t public. Vistara is considering between the 787-9 and the 787-10 version, which could fly non-stop to European destinations such as London, said one of the people. The most expensive model of the Dreamliner has a list price of $325.8 million, making the order from the Indian carrier worth as much as $3.3 billion, including options."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -affiliate
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
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Spiderguy252
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Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:31 pm

Vistara opted for six 787s with an option to buy four more, according to the people, who asked not to be identified as the information isn’t public. Vistara is considering between the 787-9 and the 787-10 version, which could fly non-stop to European destinations such as London, said one of the people. The most expensive model of the Dreamliner has a list price of $325.8 million, making the order from the Indian carrier worth as much as $3.3 billion, including options.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -affiliate


Good on them; but looks like there will be no A350s / A330NEOs in India yet.
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chinmay17shetye
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:20 pm

I honestly expected them to go for A330neos considering they have A320s. But it will be exciting to see the new 787 routes.
Will the routes be in coordination with SQ though?
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:29 pm

chinmay17shetye wrote:
I honestly expected them to go for A330neos considering they have A320s.


There is a rumour afloat that they will be switching to the MAX in the near future.
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Slash787
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:36 pm

I wonder who will receive 787's first, Jet Airways or Vistara.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:27 pm

It is interesting how the A320neo is the most popular narrowbody and the 787 is the most popular widebody in India.
 
Prost
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:31 pm

Would these be direct order, or would SQ’s large order backlog play a part in this?
 
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chinmay17shetye
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:53 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
chinmay17shetye wrote:
I honestly expected them to go for A330neos considering they have A320s.


There is a rumour afloat that they will be switching to the MAX in the near future.


I hope it stays as a rumor. India has a lot of A320 type rated pilots already and additional 737s won't help the situation. And of course the additional maintenance, training costs are huge turnoffs too.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:13 pm

Boeing seems to be more aggressive this year on 787 pricing (after dropping production costs); some of this seems to be due to GE being very aggressive and RR unable to be so with the current engine issues.

Any indication on how Indigo is leaning on their order?

chinmay17shetye wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
chinmay17shetye wrote:
I honestly expected them to go for A330neos considering they have A320s.


There is a rumour afloat that they will be switching to the MAX in the near future.


I hope it stays as a rumor. India has a lot of A320 type rated pilots already and additional 737s won't help the situation. And of course the additional maintenance, training costs are huge turnoffs too.

Costs aren't as big as some make out here. If the offer was right, including delivery slot times, it is worth the switch. If it wasn't, Easyjet wouldn't have done the opposite switch.

I personally hope for an Indian C-series order. :hyper: With the HUGE notice times due, pilots just aren't mobile. So if retraining is required, they can take a little leave from the current job to get trained on the new type due to the ridiculous timelines.

Also, why are you ignoring Jet Airways' and Spicejets 737 rated pilot pool? That is 82+35=117 737s in India already. OK, nothing compared to Indigos A320 pool, but Indigo is the player most likely to steal pilots anyway (they are not much of a source).

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OA940
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:45 pm

Could this be a transfer from SQ? 49 does seem like a lot, especially if we consider the 60 A350's they are getting too.

Anyway it's great to see Vistara expanding. I hope they expand domestically too. Also looking forward to their interiors.
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:20 pm

chinmay17shetye wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
chinmay17shetye wrote:
I honestly expected them to go for A330neos considering they have A320s.


There is a rumour afloat that they will be switching to the MAX in the near future.


I hope it stays as a rumor. India has a lot of A320 type rated pilots already and additional 737s won't help the situation. And of course the additional maintenance, training costs are huge turnoffs too.


According to an article in ch.avation dated on 29 May 2018 it seems to be more than a rumour!
 
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:38 pm

OA940 wrote:
Could this be a transfer from SQ? 49 does seem like a lot, especially if we consider the 60 A350's they are getting too.

Anyway it's great to see Vistara expanding. I hope they expand domestically too. Also looking forward to their interiors.


49? They're not getting 49, according to Bloomberg they're getting "up to" 10 787s and "up to" 60 A320neo series. Presumably including A321neo.

This again shows the viability of a A321 + 787 combo to the detriment of fanboys on both sides. Fanboyism is a stain on the respectability of these discussions.
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ikolkyo
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:28 pm

Swadian wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Could this be a transfer from SQ? 49 does seem like a lot, especially if we consider the 60 A350's they are getting too.

Anyway it's great to see Vistara expanding. I hope they expand domestically too. Also looking forward to their interiors.


49? They're not getting 49, according to Bloomberg they're getting "up to" 10 787s and "up to" 60 A320neo series. Presumably including A321neo.

This again shows the viability of a A321 + 787 combo to the detriment of fanboys on both sides. Fanboyism is a stain on the respectability of these discussions.


SQ HAS 49 787-10 orders is what he is referencing. Quit your fanboy spiel, adds nothing to the discussion.
 
Antarius
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:35 pm

Swadian wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Could this be a transfer from SQ? 49 does seem like a lot, especially if we consider the 60 A350's they are getting too.

Anyway it's great to see Vistara expanding. I hope they expand domestically too. Also looking forward to their interiors.


49? They're not getting 49, according to Bloomberg they're getting "up to" 10 787s and "up to" 60 A320neo series. Presumably including A321neo.

This again shows the viability of a A321 + 787 combo to the detriment of fanboys on both sides. Fanboyism is a stain on the respectability of these discussions.


The 49 is SQ not UK. Meaning are they 6 new orders or 6 transferred from the 49 SQ ordered.

No one made a fanboy statement here at all. So not sure how that is relevant
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imthedreamliner
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:30 pm

Indigo may soon order around 50 A330neo that will give a major relief to the struggling jet.
 
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:08 pm

imthedreamliner wrote:
Indigo may soon order around 50 A330neo that will give a major relief to the struggling jet.


I find this notion to be unlikely if the A330neo doesn’t obtain other long term orders. Why? Indigo is a sale and leaseback business model from what I understand. This works great with the A320 series with lots of demand.

A short term sale and leaseback arrangement doesn’t fit the A330neo at all. So it’s a totally new business model for them unless Airbus finances the planes. In which case there is a huge risk sitting out there when the things get returned because no one right now can predict them having any value in 7-10 years.
 
Antarius
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:21 pm

bigjku wrote:
imthedreamliner wrote:
Indigo may soon order around 50 A330neo that will give a major relief to the struggling jet.


I find this notion to be unlikely if the A330neo doesn’t obtain other long term orders. Why? Indigo is a sale and leaseback business model from what I understand. This works great with the A320 series with lots of demand.

A short term sale and leaseback arrangement doesn’t fit the A330neo at all. So it’s a totally new business model for them unless Airbus finances the planes. In which case there is a huge risk sitting out there when the things get returned because no one right now can predict them having any value in 7-10 years.


The 330neo has 214 orders. So it isnt like it's an orphan fleet with no demand. I doubt 6E will order the 338 (zero orders) but the 339 is definitely possible.
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:02 pm

The 789 would be a good starter airliner for Vistara. Engine selection would be worth watching too. My money is in the Trent 1000-TEN as partner/parent Singapore Airlines is a user of the powerplant already. It also has overhaul facilities for various RR engines so probably will favour the Trent for commonality and maintenance.
 
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:30 pm

chinmay17shetye wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
chinmay17shetye wrote:
I honestly expected them to go for A330neos considering they have A320s.


There is a rumour afloat that they will be switching to the MAX in the near future.


I hope it stays as a rumor. India has a lot of A320 type rated pilots already and additional 737s won't help the situation. And of course the additional maintenance, training costs are huge turnoffs too.


While it is not set in stone, the link below reports advanced discussions between Vistara and Boeing for 737 Max aircraft. It goes as far as stating pilot training on the 737 is underway. In addition, pilots coming from carriers with 737 type ratings are being told conversion to Airbus narrowbodies is not necessary.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -max-order
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juliuswong
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:42 am

It seems Airbus narrowbody is on the way out from Singapore Airlines Group except for Scoot. Considering the large amount of B737NG, and B737MAX that MI has now, it is not a surprise if UK drops A320 for B737MAX. In addition, MI can transfer some of their B737NK to UK while the latter waits for their own B737MAX delivery. To make it even interesting Scoot can also easily drop their current 24 A319/A320 and switch over to Boeing. However they have 36 A320neo on firm order and 11 options.

Given the talent pool in India, any narrowbody order can go either way. GoAir, IndiGo, AirAsia India, Vistara and Air India have A320. Spicejet, JetAirways and Air India Express have the B737

The 49 B787 Singapore Airlines has on order are meant for replacing A330-300, B777-200, 777-200ER, 777-300 and 777-300ER. This Vistara order would be a new order.
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:00 am

Antarius wrote:
Swadian wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Could this be a transfer from SQ? 49 does seem like a lot, especially if we consider the 60 A350's they are getting too.

Anyway it's great to see Vistara expanding. I hope they expand domestically too. Also looking forward to their interiors.


49? They're not getting 49, according to Bloomberg they're getting "up to" 10 787s and "up to" 60 A320neo series. Presumably including A321neo.

This again shows the viability of a A321 + 787 combo to the detriment of fanboys on both sides. Fanboyism is a stain on the respectability of these discussions.


The 49 is SQ not UK. Meaning are they 6 new orders or 6 transferred from the 49 SQ ordered.

No one made a fanboy statement here at all. So not sure how that is relevant


Yeah I meant SQ's 49. Also I didn't notice the neo order. Huh. Congrats to them anyway.
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Antarius
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:31 pm

OA940 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Swadian wrote:

49? They're not getting 49, according to Bloomberg they're getting "up to" 10 787s and "up to" 60 A320neo series. Presumably including A321neo.

This again shows the viability of a A321 + 787 combo to the detriment of fanboys on both sides. Fanboyism is a stain on the respectability of these discussions.


The 49 is SQ not UK. Meaning are they 6 new orders or 6 transferred from the 49 SQ ordered.

No one made a fanboy statement here at all. So not sure how that is relevant


Yeah I meant SQ's 49. Also I didn't notice the neo order. Huh. Congrats to them anyway.


The neo order is rumored still. (as is the 787 one, although the neo articles indicate Airbus is a front runner vs a done deal). There are also other articles talking about them switching to the MAX, so from a NB side it is still up in the air.
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:05 pm

Bloomberg is now reporting Vistara will sign an MoU for up to 60 A320neo so looks like they may be going Boeing for widebody and Airbus for narrowbody.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... tara-order
 
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:27 pm

bigjku wrote:
A short term sale and leaseback arrangement doesn’t fit the A330neo at all. So it’s a totally new business model for them unless Airbus finances the planes. In which case there is a huge risk sitting out there when the things get returned because no one right now can predict them having any value in 7-10 years.

:redflag: What are you talking about? There will be plenty of A330-300ceos coming off lease in ten years time that will need to be replaced by something more efficient. You yourself in a similar thread on the matter said that these newish A330ceos were part of the reason that the A330neo struggles for sales.

Antarius wrote:
The 330neo has 214 orders. So it isnt like it's an orphan fleet with no demand. I doubt 6E will order the 338 (zero orders) but the 339 is definitely possible.


Personally, I don't see Indigo expanding long haul at all*, but if they were to do so, the A330-900neo would be a strong candidate for them.

*nor Vistara, for that matter.
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bigjku
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:00 pm

zkojq wrote:
bigjku wrote:
A short term sale and leaseback arrangement doesn’t fit the A330neo at all. So it’s a totally new business model for them unless Airbus finances the planes. In which case there is a huge risk sitting out there when the things get returned because no one right now can predict them having any value in 7-10 years.

:redflag: What are you talking about? There will be plenty of A330-300ceos coming off lease in ten years time that will need to be replaced by something more efficient. You yourself in a similar thread on the matter said that these newish A330ceos were part of the reason that the A330neo struggles for sales.

Antarius wrote:
The 330neo has 214 orders. So it isnt like it's an orphan fleet with no demand. I doubt 6E will order the 338 (zero orders) but the 339 is definitely possible.


Personally, I don't see Indigo expanding long haul at all*, but if they were to do so, the A330-900neo would be a strong candidate for them.

*nor Vistara, for that matter.


The glut of cheap A330ceo’s hurt the 787 and the A330neo. But I don’t necessarily believe the A330neo makes much sense for replacing the A330ceo. The main benefit to those that bought the late in cycle CEO is that it was cheap and did just fine on shorter segments.

That is an inescapable issue for the A330neo. It’s not cheaper than the 787 and it’s less efficient pretty much across the board. Again Airbus made a one strength business case really, cheaper acquisition cost. Then they couldn’t deliver on that aspect of it. Production rate and cost are moving the wrong way as well.

I agree many CEO’s will need replaced. I suspect they will go to the 787, NMA and CR929 for the most part. I don’t expect the A330neo to be on sale a decade from now. NMA will be a deathblow to it if it’s not dead already. If Airbus wants a piece of that market I suggest they build something new.

I see zero reason for any airline to buy an aircraft that is more expensive, less advanced and less efficient that the comparable alternatives. It also likely has higher finance cost due to the current low demand. Do you see a reason airlines would line up to do this?

The A330neo always struck me as a borderline insane program. Yes it’s not that expensive in cash outlay but the opportunity cost could be massive if Airbus won’t move off their position with it.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:13 am

Its official

6 787-9 for delivery 2020-2021 plus 4 options.

GE engines.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 941708.cms
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Someone83
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:36 am

LAXintl wrote:
Its official

6 787-9 for delivery 2020-2021 plus 4 options.

GE engines.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 941708.cms


In addition they have signed a LoI with Airbus for 13 A320neo/A321neo, with further 37 A320neo to be obtained through leasing. So in total 50 NEO-family aircraft. So seems like that MAX purchase won’t happen
 
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Matt6461
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:49 am

Weren't there rumors about Vistara ordering the 777X?
I never thought 777X made any sense here but looks like that's out of the question now?
Would have been nice to see someone go big but these smaller twins are probably the smart business decision.
 
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:20 am

LAXintl wrote:
Its official

6 787-9 for delivery 2020-2021 plus 4 options.

GE engines.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 941708.cms

Surprised that they went for GE when the SQ Group wide 787 are powered by RR.
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binayak
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:01 am

Well everyone here thinks that Vistara has made a smart business decision by going for wide body order. Of course I agree that wide body order from any airline always seem interesting and exciting.

But we need to see the other side also. In the past we have seen three Indian airlines investing in wide bodies.. none could be successful. I hope Vistara has taken decision with caution.
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:08 am

Someone83 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Its official

6 787-9 for delivery 2020-2021 plus 4 options.

GE engines.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 941708.cms


In addition they have signed a LoI with Airbus for 13 A320neo/A321neo, with further 37 A320neo to be obtained through leasing. So in total 50 NEO-family aircraft. So seems like that MAX purchase won’t happen


I assume that the leasing part involves slots the leasing companies own, giving Vistara earlier deliveries than own orders.
 
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:12 am

binayak wrote:
But we need to see the other side also. In the past we have seen three Indian airlines investing in wide bodies.. none could be successful. I hope Vistara has taken decision with caution.


To do that UK needs to learn from the mistakes of the three airlines' past WB order failures. Ordering only a handful of 789s for now and not any 777X was a step in the right direction. Much like the A330 family has been well suited for operations to/from India, same can be said for the Dreamliner family.

The death kneel would be adding first class suites, which is what UK should avoid like the plague. A decent sized Y+ cabin, although debatable on many routes, would still be welcome especially for the trunk routes of DEL/BOM-LHR.
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
 
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binayak
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:32 am

JOYA380B747 wrote:
binayak wrote:
But we need to see the other side also. In the past we have seen three Indian airlines investing in wide bodies.. none could be successful. I hope Vistara has taken decision with caution.


To do that UK needs to learn from the mistakes of the three airlines' past WB order failures. Ordering only a handful of 789s for now and not any 777X was a step in the right direction. Much like the A330 family has been well suited for operations to/from India, same can be said for the Dreamliner family.

The death kneel would be adding first class suites, which is what UK should avoid like the plague. A decent sized Y+ cabin, although debatable on many routes, would still be welcome especially for the trunk routes of DEL/BOM-LHR.



The first thing Vistara must do is to be financially stable and get a decent amount of market through more domestic flight ops and not through PR.
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Slash787
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:33 am

binayak wrote:
Well everyone here thinks that Vistara has made a smart business decision by going for wide body order. Of course I agree that wide body order from any airline always seem interesting and exciting.

But we need to see the other side also. In the past we have seen three Indian airlines investing in wide bodies.. none could be successful. I hope Vistara has taken decision with caution.


I would say ordering Six 789's was a pretty safe decision.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:44 am

binayak wrote:
Well everyone here thinks that Vistara has made a smart business decision by going for wide body order. Of course I agree that wide body order from any airline always seem interesting and exciting.

But we need to see the other side also. In the past we have seen three Indian airlines investing in wide bodies.. none could be successful. I hope Vistara has taken decision with caution.

I think with the vast experience of both Tata and prudent and cautious management of SQ, UK is on good hand. The fact that they have placed an order for only six 787 for now can be concluded as a safe move for them to test the water. They have been growing organically adding one or two aircraft at a time, rather than placing a bulk order and decide what to do next when the aircraft get delivered like what happened with 9W and KF.
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MrHMSH
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:29 am

Not sure it's worth starting a new thread for, but the Vistara order for A320neoss has indeed materialised. 50 in total comprised of 13 from Airbus directly and 37 from lessors.

http://twitter.com/Airbus/status/1016989225827348480

787 and A320neo it is.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:27 am

MrHMSH wrote:
Not sure it's worth starting a new thread for, but the Vistara order for A320neoss has indeed materialised. 50 in total comprised of 13 from Airbus directly and 37 from lessors.

http://twitter.com/Airbus/status/1016989225827348480

787 and A320neo it is.

A very smart order of two quality airplanes.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:33 pm

juliuswong wrote:
...
I think with the vast experience of both Tata and prudent and cautious management of SQ, UK is on good hand.


That is just a myth, Sanjiv Kapoor alone can try few innovative ideas than what SIA or Tatas can bring to the table, but he has been sidelined. Tatas have no experience in civil aviation and both TATAs/SIA are not loaded with cash, assuming they can bring cash into India. Tata Group is as bureaucratic as any government organization. Probably legal has to clear every tweet.

A lot of unanswered questions.
DEL/BOM-LHR non-stop market yields are good, but can they afford slots at all three congested airports.
Crew requirement goes up and productivity comes down.
Not sure what kind of maintenance contracts UK signed. For a fleet of 6, Gold Care is too expensive and doesn't guarantee much with major issues(hint DY), traditional MX/MRO increases the risk of AOGs.

And finally, no good deed goes unpunished in India, Tatas not buying AI is one of those.

The only good news is the tiny quantity.
 
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binayak
Posts: 351
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Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:45 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
...
I think with the vast experience of both Tata and prudent and cautious management of SQ, UK is on good hand.


That is just a myth, Sanjiv Kapoor alone can try few innovative ideas than what SIA or Tatas can bring to the table, but he has been sidelined. Tatas have no experience in civil aviation and both TATAs/SIA are not loaded with cash, assuming they can bring cash into India. Tata Group is as bureaucratic as any government organization. Probably legal has to clear every tweet.


The only good news is the tiny quantity.


Well Sanjiv kapoor must be given an award for his PR campaigns on twitter and his way of justifying Vistara 's product to be better than 9W.

Yes, completely agree that the tiny order is good but question is whether it will remain tiny till 2020?
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:02 pm

I am still hoping SQ transfer some wide bodies to Vistara. Owning 6 789 and cheap leasing 6 more from SQ would give them a good fleet.
 
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unrave
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:48 pm

It is quite amusing to read non resident Indians' pessimistic take on things. So much baseless emconjecture in a single comment.

Vistara will be fine. They will thrive in a real competitive market but we have a government owned albatross that skews the market.
Air India is a national embarrassment
 
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binayak
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:37 pm

unrave wrote:
It is quite amusing to read non resident Indians' pessimistic take on things. So much baseless emconjecture in a single comment.

Vistara will be fine. They will thrive in a real competitive market but we have a government owned albatross that skews the market.

Hope they do.
Actually there are some things I don't get.
When all airlines are trying to reduce costs, Vistara doesn't seem to be bothered there. Having three classes in domestic, exclusive lounge when fleet is just 22, on board chef etc. Don't these things affect their finances?
Moreover they are being confident about being profitable by 2020 . Sanjiv kapoor is trying to hit on 9W as much as he can. I'm sorry but I have seen this same thing with another airline ten years ago (you know who)
Today Vistara hasn't established itself in domestic but is sure about WB ops. Tell me one thing what if in 2020 oil prices rise too much or rupee weakens further, what kind of backup does Vistara have ? And I seriously doubt (looking at the PR campaigns by Sanjiv kapoor) that the order will remain six 787s by 2020. They might increase it.
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:24 pm

unrave wrote:
It is quite amusing to read non resident Indians' pessimistic take on things. So much baseless emconjecture in a single comment.

Vistara will be fine. They will thrive in a real competitive market but we have a government owned albatross that skews the market.


I agree with you. Not sure where all the negativity comes from. It's the same stuff - the ME3 already fly to the world, why should an Indian airline fly that route OR Indians love flying at 4am and connecting through DXB is their dream because they shop as they run between gates.

6 X 789 is hardly a big swing. UK will be fine. Going by the new flight announcements from India, I would think that the freeze on the ME3 capacity increases is finally allowing Indian carriers to expand. I hope UK can ride the wave a bit and their planes do not come too late.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4609
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Confirmed: Vistara ordering 6 789 and 13 A320series + options for each type

Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:45 pm

With only 10 B789s it means no USA plans as focus would be on UK some EU and some SE Asia / East Africa maximum ie anything within a 9-10 hour flying range maximum so that one aircraft can rotate back to back in order to better aircraft utilization.
 
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binayak
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:45 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I agree with you. Not sure where all the negativity comes from. It's the same stuff - the ME3 already fly to the world, why should an Indian airline fly that route OR Indians love flying at 4am and connecting through DXB is their dream because they shop as they run between gates.

6 X 789 is hardly a big swing. UK will be fine. Going by the new flight announcements from India, I would think that the freeze on the ME3 capacity increases is finally allowing Indian carriers to expand. I hope UK can ride the wave a bit and their planes do not come too late.


Sorry because I was the first one to post a negative comment in this forum. I was never against Indian carriers expanding (you can check my old posts). My only worry is about the way the taxes are structured here thus making long hauls for Indian carriers difficult. Vistara needs to be strong at home before flying long haul. And by strong, not strong through PR .
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2853
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:26 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Boeing seems to be more aggressive this year on 787 pricing (after dropping production costs); some of this seems to be due to GE being very aggressive and RR unable to be so with the current engine issues.

Lower 787 production costs are a reality.

The Board has made it quite clear to model managers / owners, their ability to negotiate price and package is down to cost of production and minimum unit thresholds. 787 and 737 senior management team looks to be on track for very significant bonuses over the next decade.

Raises interesting issues regarding new family model developments, especially internal objections where launch financially impacts on the 787 and 737.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 1521
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Confirmed: Vistara ordering 6 789 and 13 A320series + options for each type

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:42 pm

Confirmed : Vistara has ordered A321 NEOs too

https://twitter.com/TheSanjivKapoor/sta ... 4406939648
 
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GCT64
Posts: 1549
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:34 pm

Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:21 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Tatas have no experience in civil aviation


Didn't TATA found Air India back in 1932? (As Tata Airlines, subsequently becoming Air India in 1946). JRD Tata was Chairman until 1977.
Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,B190,(..54 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 14588
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Vistara reported to have ordered 6 787s

Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:42 pm

Swadian wrote:
This again shows the viability of a A321 + 787 combo to the detriment of fanboys on both sides. Fanboyism is a stain on the respectability of these discussions.

I agree fanboyism is... well just annoying.
MAX+A350 will work for other airlines.
A220+ just about anything works to, or substitute E2 for most airlines.

We will see many more A321+787 pairings. Just as we've seen 767s replaced by A330s, we will see many replaced with 787s, or 797s, or A321LR to increase frequency and fragmentation.

Lightsaber

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
avgeekjohn
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 2:24 pm

Re: Confirmed: Vistara ordering 6 789 and 13 A320series + options for each type

Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:58 pm

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