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enilria
Posts: 8112
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:28 pm

Since that didn't tell us much.

Orlando to/from Starts: Frequency:
Aguadilla, Puerto Rico (BQN) October 4 Daily
Guatemala City, Guatemala (GUA)* October 4 4x weekly
Panama City, Panama (PTY)* October 4 4x weekly
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic (SDQ)* October 4 4x weekly until Nov. 7
Daily from Nov. 8
San Pedro Sula, Honduras (SAP)* October 5 2x weekly
San José, Costa Rica (SJO)* October 5 4x weekly until Nov. 7
Daily from Nov. 8
San Salvador, El Salvador (SAL)* October 6 2x weekly
Bogota, Colombia (BOG)*ǂ November 8 Daily
St. Thomas, USVI (STT) November 8 3x weekly
Medellin, Colombia (MDE)* November 9 2x weekly
Cartagena, Colombia (CTG)* November 10 2x weekly
Asheville, North Carolina (AVL) September 7 3x weekly until Nov. 7
4x weekly from Nov. 8
Greensboro, North Carolina (GSO) September 7 3x weekly until Nov. 7
4x weekly from Nov. 8
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina (MYR) November 10 2x weekly

Pretty huge move. I wonder what this means for FLL. I suspect it means that they do not plan to expand much internationally at FLL because of the facilities logjam. I doubt they would shrink FLL and give the assets to B6 or WN unless they announce a sale of FLL assets which I think is unlikely. Nevertheless, it means a de-empasizing of FLL as their Latin gateway. Also makes me wonder what this means for the new terminal in MCO. With all CBP moving to the new building, NK won't want a split operation, so they must be moving too...and it won't be cheap there.
 
Thespiritofit
Topic Author
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NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:32 pm

 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 212
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:43 pm

The assumption among many down here was if Spirit began to pull down FLL they'd eventually move to MIA. O&D from the Miami/Fort Lauderdale area is much stronger than from the Orlando area to most of Latin America. But given AA's entrenchment in MIA, B6's superior reputation at FLL and WN seemingly going hard into the destinations they do serve abroad (many have multiple dalies and the sub-daily ones have been bumped up to daily for the winter season) it makes some sense. MCO service to Central America in particular has been under-served. The irony is seemingly B6 made the opposite decision many years ago, starting out with MCO as the Latin gateway and then eventually shifting almost completely to FLL.
 
roberthuss
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:46 pm

enilria wrote:
Also makes me wonder what this means for the new terminal in MCO. With all CBP moving to the new building, NK won't want a split operation, so they must be moving too...and it won't be cheap there.


Well, MCO already announced that B6 is moving to the new terminal and is leasing 14 of the 18 initial gates - so I think it's pretty much a B6 terminal when it opens. And, FYI - CBP is not moving all operations out of their existing terminals.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:48 pm

Interesting.

Did any existing routes get additional frequencies/equipment upgrades?
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flymco753
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:48 pm

They can cross with the Airside 4 FIS from 3 to 4. They could move to Airside 4 once the international airlines move to C.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

*Future Route Network Planner*
 
Balloonchaser
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:49 pm

I was sort of hoping to see SXM in this route expansion.. Sigh
 
tphuang
Posts: 1368
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:02 pm

I do wonder if this means they are going to cut back internationally at fll. It’s hard to see an airline like nk split connection traffic two ways and make that work. Clear shift to top leisure market from major business market by nk imo.

On the other hand, they have beaten b6 to the punch here at expanding internationally. I would expect many of these markets to be part of b6 plan for 100 fights. Not sure there is room for 2 carriers on many of these routes.
 
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flymco753
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:04 pm

tphuang wrote:
I do wonder if this means they are going to cut back internationally at fll. It’s hard to see an airline like nk split connection traffic two ways and make that work. Clear shift to top leisure market from major business market by nk imo.

On the other hand, they have beaten b6 to the punch here at expanding internationally. I would expect many of these markets to be part of b6 plan for 100 fights. Not sure there is room for 2 carriers on many of these routes.
NK is targeting low barrel leisure, and most of these services are off daily. B6 can still make most of them work on a daily basis.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

*Future Route Network Planner*
 
tphuang
Posts: 1368
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:05 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
The assumption among many down here was if Spirit began to pull down FLL they'd eventually move to MIA. O&D from the Miami/Fort Lauderdale area is much stronger than from the Orlando area to most of Latin America. But given AA's entrenchment in MIA, B6's superior reputation at FLL and WN seemingly going hard into the destinations they do serve abroad (many have multiple dalies and the sub-daily ones have been bumped up to daily for the winter season) it makes some sense. MCO service to Central America in particular has been under-served. The irony is seemingly B6 made the opposite decision many years ago, starting out with MCO as the Latin gateway and then eventually shifting almost completely to FLL.


It seems all along b6 was doing better than wn in many of the markets out of Fll. I wonder if nk is also feeling the pressure.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:34 pm

The resources being used to the west coast this summer is going to support the new MCO service...if you put two-and-two together. I kind of have a feeling that a lot of the west coast seasonal service will NOT come back next summer...I'm thinking SEA.
 
 
MAH4546
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:57 pm

msycajun wrote:


All those FLL cuts are temporary seasonal adjustments for the slow fall travel period.
a.
 
Beechtobus
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:09 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:20 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
The resources being used to the west coast this summer is going to support the new MCO service...if you put two-and-two together. I kind of have a feeling that a lot of the west coast seasonal service will NOT come back next summer...I'm thinking SEA.


More than enough new metal coming to NK before next year to resume the west coast flights. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not guaranteeing that they return for next spring/summer as this is a way to quietly cancel flights that aren’t performing. I’m just saying that they will have the aircraft to resume the west coast flights or if they so desire or to add other routes.
Last edited by Beechtobus on Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
BobbyPSP
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:29 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:26 pm

enilria wrote:
Since that didn't tell us much.

Orlando to/from Starts: Frequency:
Aguadilla, Puerto Rico (BQN) October 4 Daily
Guatemala City, Guatemala (GUA)* October 4 4x weekly
Panama City, Panama (PTY)* October 4 4x weekly
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic (SDQ)* October 4 4x weekly until Nov. 7
Daily from Nov. 8
San Pedro Sula, Honduras (SAP)* October 5 2x weekly
San José, Costa Rica (SJO)* October 5 4x weekly until Nov. 7
Daily from Nov. 8
San Salvador, El Salvador (SAL)* October 6 2x weekly
Bogota, Colombia (BOG)*ǂ November 8 Daily
St. Thomas, USVI (STT) November 8 3x weekly
Medellin, Colombia (MDE)* November 9 2x weekly
Cartagena, Colombia (CTG)* November 10 2x weekly
Asheville, North Carolina (AVL) September 7 3x weekly until Nov. 7
4x weekly from Nov. 8
Greensboro, North Carolina (GSO) September 7 3x weekly until Nov. 7
4x weekly from Nov. 8
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina (MYR) November 10 2x weekly

Pretty huge move. I wonder what this means for FLL. I suspect it means that they do not plan to expand much internationally at FLL because of the facilities logjam. I doubt they would shrink FLL and give the assets to B6 or WN unless they announce a sale of FLL assets which I think is unlikely. Nevertheless, it means a de-empasizing of FLL as their Latin gateway. Also makes me wonder what this means for the new terminal in MCO. With all CBP moving to the new building, NK won't want a split operation, so they must be moving too...and it won't be cheap there.



Thanks for breaking it down. Sunday’s OAG will be interesting re: looking to see if there are in fact large FLL drawdown.
 
shadez
Posts: 123
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:28 pm

While this certainly deemphasizes FLL, I don't see this changing much at FLL for NK. They would not have recently launched FLL-CAP/GYE/STX if they were planning on shifting the bulk of their Caribbean and Latin American flying up to MCO.

My guess is they are performing well in MCO, see an opportunity, and probably have noticed a fair amount of connecting traffic to FLL from MCO on these routes.

I think this is more of a reflection of the opportunities they see internationally than anything else.
 
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enilria
Posts: 8112
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:36 pm

BobbyPSP wrote:
enilria wrote:
Since that didn't tell us much.

Orlando to/from Starts: Frequency:
Aguadilla, Puerto Rico (BQN) October 4 Daily
Guatemala City, Guatemala (GUA)* October 4 4x weekly
Panama City, Panama (PTY)* October 4 4x weekly
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic (SDQ)* October 4 4x weekly until Nov. 7
Daily from Nov. 8
San Pedro Sula, Honduras (SAP)* October 5 2x weekly
San José, Costa Rica (SJO)* October 5 4x weekly until Nov. 7
Daily from Nov. 8
San Salvador, El Salvador (SAL)* October 6 2x weekly
Bogota, Colombia (BOG)*ǂ November 8 Daily
St. Thomas, USVI (STT) November 8 3x weekly
Medellin, Colombia (MDE)* November 9 2x weekly
Cartagena, Colombia (CTG)* November 10 2x weekly
Asheville, North Carolina (AVL) September 7 3x weekly until Nov. 7
4x weekly from Nov. 8
Greensboro, North Carolina (GSO) September 7 3x weekly until Nov. 7
4x weekly from Nov. 8
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina (MYR) November 10 2x weekly

Pretty huge move. I wonder what this means for FLL. I suspect it means that they do not plan to expand much internationally at FLL because of the facilities logjam. I doubt they would shrink FLL and give the assets to B6 or WN unless they announce a sale of FLL assets which I think is unlikely. Nevertheless, it means a de-empasizing of FLL as their Latin gateway. Also makes me wonder what this means for the new terminal in MCO. With all CBP moving to the new building, NK won't want a split operation, so they must be moving too...and it won't be cheap there.



Thanks for breaking it down. Sunday’s OAG will be interesting re: looking to see if there are in fact large FLL drawdown.

So, they are definitely doing this because they are tired of being told there aren't gates/CBP capability at FLL. The question is really whether it replaces growth at FLL or replaces existing flying at FLL. It's hard to imagine them abandoning these routes from FLL. I don't really see how they would be better at MCO given the ethnic differences, so unless they are selling their FLL intl assets to somebody else, I would not expect any large scale cuts at FLL. I do think they will move some frequencies over.
Last edited by enilria on Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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flymco753
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:49 pm

Plus, they mine as well grow now because it will slow down once C opens (due to costs).
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

*Future Route Network Planner*
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1270
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:53 pm

B6,WN and NK in a 3 way slug fest at FLL. Makes since for NK to shift capacity to MCO because Disney a 365 draw of revenue. It's good move beating B6 to the MCO build up.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
santi319
Posts: 558
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:22 pm

Theres literally no cutbacks in FLL I dont know what people are talking about... literally they even added flights, LIM is daily year round starting November and other routes like SJU and PTY see increases.

The fantasy that NK cant compete with B6 is purely an a-net one.. specially when B6 now also charges for bags and have the worst reliability of the two... a free coke and a snack is not a deal breaker for the average joe anymore, specially when NK will add wifi.

The biggest question is why NK never applied for any MEX slots.. maybe they are waiting for the new airport?
Last edited by santi319 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ordpark
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:27 pm

Do they have enough aircraft to support this without reducing elsewhere?
 
jplatts
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:41 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
B6,WN and NK in a 3 way slug fest at FLL. Makes since for NK to shift capacity to MCO because Disney a 365 draw of revenue. It's good move beating B6 to the MCO build up.

Flyguy


WN has opportunities to further expand both domestically and internationally at MCO since WN is already in a lot of markets in the contiguous U.S. that NK isn't in, and a more detailed explanation can be found at http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382579&start=150#p20482889.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 3554
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:44 pm

Balloonchaser wrote:
I was sort of hoping to see SXM in this route expansion.. Sigh


Isn't SXM a little pricey for the NK crowd?
 
Murdoughnut
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:58 pm

enilria wrote:
BobbyPSP wrote:
enilria wrote:
Since that didn't tell us much.

Orlando to/from Starts: Frequency:
Aguadilla, Puerto Rico (BQN) October 4 Daily
Guatemala City, Guatemala (GUA)* October 4 4x weekly
Panama City, Panama (PTY)* October 4 4x weekly
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic (SDQ)* October 4 4x weekly until Nov. 7
Daily from Nov. 8
San Pedro Sula, Honduras (SAP)* October 5 2x weekly
San José, Costa Rica (SJO)* October 5 4x weekly until Nov. 7
Daily from Nov. 8
San Salvador, El Salvador (SAL)* October 6 2x weekly
Bogota, Colombia (BOG)*ǂ November 8 Daily
St. Thomas, USVI (STT) November 8 3x weekly
Medellin, Colombia (MDE)* November 9 2x weekly
Cartagena, Colombia (CTG)* November 10 2x weekly
Asheville, North Carolina (AVL) September 7 3x weekly until Nov. 7
4x weekly from Nov. 8
Greensboro, North Carolina (GSO) September 7 3x weekly until Nov. 7
4x weekly from Nov. 8
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina (MYR) November 10 2x weekly

Pretty huge move. I wonder what this means for FLL. I suspect it means that they do not plan to expand much internationally at FLL because of the facilities logjam. I doubt they would shrink FLL and give the assets to B6 or WN unless they announce a sale of FLL assets which I think is unlikely. Nevertheless, it means a de-empasizing of FLL as their Latin gateway. Also makes me wonder what this means for the new terminal in MCO. With all CBP moving to the new building, NK won't want a split operation, so they must be moving too...and it won't be cheap there.



Thanks for breaking it down. Sunday’s OAG will be interesting re: looking to see if there are in fact large FLL drawdown.

So, they are definitely doing this because they are tired of being told there aren't gates/CBP capability at FLL. The question is really whether it replaces growth at FLL or replaces existing flying at FLL. It's hard to imagine them abandoning these routes from FLL. I don't really see how they would be better at MCO given the ethnic differences, so unless they are selling their FLL intl assets to somebody else, I would not expect any large scale cuts at FLL. I do think they will move some frequencies over.


The CBP situation at MCO isn't much better. Hearing stories of European originating widebodies sitting 2+ hours at the gate before pax can deplane to proceed through customs. Latin American arrival channel might be different, though.
 
Murdoughnut
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:02 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
B6,WN and NK in a 3 way slug fest at FLL. Makes since for NK to shift capacity to MCO because Disney a 365 draw of revenue. It's good move beating B6 to the MCO build up.

Flyguy


But that's the challenge - the Mouse doesn't generate traffic balance. TPA and MIA/FLL serve a larger share of FL originating pax, VFR traffic, and a a bigger share of business traffic, in addition to each having a substantial leisure draw. The Mouse isn't going anywhere, but macroeconomic jolts certainly impact leisure traffic more so than VFR or business.
 
Biged
Posts: 39
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:12 pm

Why don’t they do some of this out of TPA?
 
MCOGVADCA
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:05 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:28 pm

"More VFR" at TPA is relative: to some markets, yes, to others, no. Orlando's Colombian, Dominican, and Puerto Rican populations are much larger than those of Tampa, yielding more Orlando-originating O&D VFR traffic to many of the destinations announced today by Spirit.
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Beechtobus
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:09 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:58 pm

ordpark wrote:
Do they have enough aircraft to support this without reducing elsewhere?


These are starting when the summer only frequencies go away. With 9 more frames going to NK this year and 16 total next year (6 in quarter 1 alone), I don’t see any current routes having to fund this expansion.

The expansion comes to about 8 more daily departures and 8 more daily arrivals into MCO (at max frequency). 16 additional flights at spirits average usage of about 5 legs per day means 3-4 a/c required total for this expansion. Spirit is reviving more than double that before the end of this year.
 
Balloonchaser
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:00 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
I was sort of hoping to see SXM in this route expansion.. Sigh


Isn't SXM a little pricey for the NK crowd?


Spirit already does FLL-SXM and apparently load factors are high.
 
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AASAP777
Posts: 136
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:01 pm

Looks like my hometown airport (SAP) is becoming NK's most served destination in Central America as it will now have flights to FLL, IAH (the sole flight of the expansion that survived in Houston) and now MCO. The timings are excellent since that will allow people a full week of work and then head for the airport for starting their family vacations.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:04 pm

Murdoughnut wrote:
The CBP situation at MCO isn't much better. Hearing stories of European originating widebodies sitting 2+ hours at the gate before pax can deplane to proceed through customs. Latin American arrival channel might be different, though.


Airside 4's CBP facility houses all of the European carriers (VS/BA/LH/MT) which all come in at about the same time (DL also has an AMS flight that arrives there as well) and it's not as bad over in Airside 1 (where I assume NK will have it's INTL arrivals proceeded) which typically sees less traffic and handles the Latin American/Caribbean Carriers. (AM/Y4/4O/AV/CM/CW)
 
santi319
Posts: 558
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:13 pm

Balloonchaser wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
I was sort of hoping to see SXM in this route expansion.. Sigh


Isn't SXM a little pricey for the NK crowd?


Spirit already does FLL-SXM and apparently load factors are high.


Even increases frecuency in December.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25338
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:28 pm

BobbyPSP wrote:


Thanks for breaking it down. Sunday’s OAG will be interesting re: looking to see if there are in fact large FLL drawdown.


It won't be interesting at all. The schedules are loaded. This is new flying. None of it replaces FLL flying.

Let's see if this lasts longer than the failed Houston experiment.
a.
 
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AASAP777
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:38 pm

Times for SAP flights already in:
NK747 MCO-SAP 07:35 - 08:15 Tuesdays
NK746 SAP-MCO 09:05 - 13:50 Tuesdays.

NK775 MCO-SAP 15:30 - 16:10 Fridays
NK774 SAP-MCO 17:10 - 21:55 Fridays

All operated by A319.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
Balloonchaser
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:38 pm

santi319 wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Isn't SXM a little pricey for the NK crowd?


Spirit already does FLL-SXM and apparently load factors are high.


Even increases frecuency in December.

Does it really? I’m still seeing 1x Weekly
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2581
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:50 pm

AASAP777 wrote:
Looks like my hometown airport (SAP) is becoming NK's most served destination in Central America as it will now have flights to FLL, IAH (the sole flight of the expansion that survived in Houston) and now MCO. The timings are excellent since that will allow people a full week of work and then head for the airport for starting their family vacations.
Someone said NK MSY-SAP one day too?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
jplatts
Posts: 1396
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:52 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
BobbyPSP wrote:
Thanks for breaking it down. Sunday’s OAG will be interesting re: looking to see if there are in fact large FLL drawdown.


It won't be interesting at all. The schedules are loaded. This is new flying. None of it replaces FLL flying.

Let's see if this lasts longer than the failed Houston experiment.


One big difference is that NK has nonstop service to MCO from many destinations that do not have nonstop service to IAH on NK, including ACY, CAK, BOS, CRW, CLE, CMH, BDL, MCI, LBE, MYR, PIT, PHL, and RIC. Another big difference is that there is no US3 hub at MCO, whereas IAH is still a hub for UA. There are also fewer international destinations that are served nonstop from MCO on US-based airlines.
 
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AASAP777
Posts: 136
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:54 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
AASAP777 wrote:
Looks like my hometown airport (SAP) is becoming NK's most served destination in Central America as it will now have flights to FLL, IAH (the sole flight of the expansion that survived in Houston) and now MCO. The timings are excellent since that will allow people a full week of work and then head for the airport for starting their family vacations.
Someone said NK MSY-SAP one day too?



It won't be strange if they come up with that. NK has become really successful here at SAP, so it won't be something odd if Spirit comes up with something like this.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:04 pm

jplatts wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
BobbyPSP wrote:
Thanks for breaking it down. Sunday’s OAG will be interesting re: looking to see if there are in fact large FLL drawdown.


It won't be interesting at all. The schedules are loaded. This is new flying. None of it replaces FLL flying.

Let's see if this lasts longer than the failed Houston experiment.


One big difference is that NK has nonstop service to MCO from many destinations that do not have nonstop service to IAH on NK, including ACY, CAK, BOS, CRW, CLE, CMH, BDL, MCI, LBE, MYR, PIT, PHL, and RIC. Another big difference is that there is no US3 hub at MCO, whereas IAH is still a hub for UA. There are also fewer international destinations that are served nonstop from MCO on US-based airlines.


And hopefully they are not all redeyes as some of the NK flights CentAm at IAH were at one
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
MAH4546
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:01 am

jplatts wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
BobbyPSP wrote:
Thanks for breaking it down. Sunday’s OAG will be interesting re: looking to see if there are in fact large FLL drawdown.


It won't be interesting at all. The schedules are loaded. This is new flying. None of it replaces FLL flying.

Let's see if this lasts longer than the failed Houston experiment.


One big difference is that NK has nonstop service to MCO from many destinations that do not have nonstop service to IAH on NK, including ACY, CAK, BOS, CRW, CLE, CMH, BDL, MCI, LBE, MYR, PIT, PHL, and RIC. Another big difference is that there is no US3 hub at MCO, whereas IAH is still a hub for UA. There are also fewer international destinations that are served nonstop from MCO on US-based airlines.


It's irrelevant. People don't fly CLE-SAP.

This is about serving the local market from Orlando; those domestic flights are about getting people to Disney World.
a.
 
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tb727
Posts: 2013
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:06 am

FlyingSicilian wrote:
jplatts wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

It won't be interesting at all. The schedules are loaded. This is new flying. None of it replaces FLL flying.

Let's see if this lasts longer than the failed Houston experiment.


One big difference is that NK has nonstop service to MCO from many destinations that do not have nonstop service to IAH on NK, including ACY, CAK, BOS, CRW, CLE, CMH, BDL, MCI, LBE, MYR, PIT, PHL, and RIC. Another big difference is that there is no US3 hub at MCO, whereas IAH is still a hub for UA. There are also fewer international destinations that are served nonstop from MCO on US-based airlines.


And hopefully they are not all redeyes as some of the NK flights CentAm at IAH were at one


Agreed. Red-eye jungle turns are the worst.


At a quick glance it looks like only BQN is a true redeye.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2767
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:07 am

Spirit did an experiment in Central America some years ago on flying to their main regional airports out of Houston.
United Airlines is getting 139x weekly flighs linking [IAH-Central America] at this time. As a result, the market is well served and probably there wasn't more room for a new airline like NK. Only NK IAH-SAP is active.
Unlike UA, Spirit is regulated under the low-cost model.
South Florida - Central America is a bulky market as compared to both Houston and Orlando.
B6 hasn't dare to operate into the Central American airports, besides SJO.
Avianca will initiate AV SJO-GUA-MCO 4x weekly and AV SAL-MCO 3x weekly in August.
The upcoming NK MCO-PTY 4x weekly will face to CM PTY-MCO 35x weekly.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
BobbyPSP
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:05 am

Panama City, Panama , found Thursday in Jan, 06;35 dep MCO, turns and arrives MCO 13:50
 
midway7
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:21 am

Does anyone know the plan for gate assignment with all these new flights? I believe Spirit uses gates in the 30-39 pier right now. International arrivals will have to come into 20-29 or 80-99. Will they move to new gates to faciltate this, or just park the international arrival at an appropriate gate, then tow the aircraft over to their existing gates? Or do the Frontier thing and have a flight from CUN arrive at gate 84 in the early AM and take out a flight to say PHL at the same gate an hour or so later.

Gates 80-99 appear to be busy at certain times of the day. Not sure if they could fully relocate there.

Gates 20-29 could probably handle them relocating. It would be busy in the early AM, as I have seen Frontier, Jet Blue, and even American RON aircraft at those gates for early AM departures.
 
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chepos
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:22 am

MCO BQN is overdue on NK, B6 is on this route already but with the massive Puerto Rican population in central Florida I am sure they can both coexist.

,
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
xdlx
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:30 am

MAH4546 wrote:
msycajun wrote:


All those FLL cuts are temporary seasonal adjustments for the slow fall travel period.


FALL is the high season in FT. Lauderdale
 
tphuang
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:02 pm

santi319 wrote:
Theres literally no cutbacks in FLL I dont know what people are talking about... literally they even added flights, LIM is daily year round starting November and other routes like SJU and PTY see increases.

The fantasy that NK cant compete with B6 is purely an a-net one.. specially when B6 now also charges for bags and have the worst reliability of the two... a free coke and a snack is not a deal breaker for the average joe anymore, specially when NK will add wifi.

The biggest question is why NK never applied for any MEX slots.. maybe they are waiting for the new airport?


I've looked up Q4 2017 yields for several routes where NK competes against B6 out of both MCO/FLL (BWI/EWR/PVD/BDL/BOS/SJU). I can tell you without a doubt that NK performs better out of MCO in all of them. And, the fare premium that B6 has over NK is greater out of FLL in all of them. And the difference is not trivial in most cases. Now unfortunately, we don't have international data, but I'd venture that they'd show similar numbers.

And since this NK network adjustment just happened this past week, we will have to actually wait and see if there are any cutbacks in FLL. There clearly have been some minor adjustments already.

enilria wrote:
BobbyPSP wrote:
enilria wrote:
Since that didn't tell us much.

Orlando to/from Starts: Frequency:
Aguadilla, Puerto Rico (BQN) October 4 Daily
Guatemala City, Guatemala (GUA)* October 4 4x weekly
Panama City, Panama (PTY)* October 4 4x weekly
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic (SDQ)* October 4 4x weekly until Nov. 7
Daily from Nov. 8
San Pedro Sula, Honduras (SAP)* October 5 2x weekly
San José, Costa Rica (SJO)* October 5 4x weekly until Nov. 7
Daily from Nov. 8
San Salvador, El Salvador (SAL)* October 6 2x weekly
Bogota, Colombia (BOG)*ǂ November 8 Daily
St. Thomas, USVI (STT) November 8 3x weekly
Medellin, Colombia (MDE)* November 9 2x weekly
Cartagena, Colombia (CTG)* November 10 2x weekly
Asheville, North Carolina (AVL) September 7 3x weekly until Nov. 7
4x weekly from Nov. 8
Greensboro, North Carolina (GSO) September 7 3x weekly until Nov. 7
4x weekly from Nov. 8
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina (MYR) November 10 2x weekly

Pretty huge move. I wonder what this means for FLL. I suspect it means that they do not plan to expand much internationally at FLL because of the facilities logjam. I doubt they would shrink FLL and give the assets to B6 or WN unless they announce a sale of FLL assets which I think is unlikely. Nevertheless, it means a de-empasizing of FLL as their Latin gateway. Also makes me wonder what this means for the new terminal in MCO. With all CBP moving to the new building, NK won't want a split operation, so they must be moving too...and it won't be cheap there.



Thanks for breaking it down. Sunday’s OAG will be interesting re: looking to see if there are in fact large FLL drawdown.

So, they are definitely doing this because they are tired of being told there aren't gates/CBP capability at FLL. The question is really whether it replaces growth at FLL or replaces existing flying at FLL. It's hard to imagine them abandoning these routes from FLL. I don't really see how they would be better at MCO given the ethnic differences, so unless they are selling their FLL intl assets to somebody else, I would not expect any large scale cuts at FLL. I do think they will move some frequencies over.

Can they really sell those assets though? I'm not sure how gates at FLL are allocated. I do know that B6 is getting 5 more gates. So, I would imagine if they were willing to put some investment in, FLL is flexible toward adding more gates.
 
axiom
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:11 pm

xdlx wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
msycajun wrote:


All those FLL cuts are temporary seasonal adjustments for the slow fall travel period.


FALL is the high season in FT. Lauderdale



What? Fall is the slowest season in Florida.
 
Beechtobus
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:34 pm

midway7 wrote:
Does anyone know the plan for gate assignment with all these new flights? I believe Spirit uses gates in the 30-39 pier right now. International arrivals will have to come into 20-29 or 80-99. Will they move to new gates to faciltate this, or just park the international arrival at an appropriate gate, then tow the aircraft over to their existing gates? Or do the Frontier thing and have a flight from CUN arrive at gate 84 in the early AM and take out a flight to say PHL at the same gate an hour or so later.

Gates 80-99 appear to be busy at certain times of the day. Not sure if they could fully relocate there.

Gates 20-29 could probably handle them relocating. It would be busy in the early AM, as I have seen Frontier, Jet Blue, and even American RON aircraft at those gates for early AM departures.


Keep in mind I have no firm knowledge either way, but my guess is keep 30-39 and park intl. arrivals on on Intl. airside 1 or 4 and then tow. I’m merely guessing based on how NK currently operates at its non-FLL international stations(DFW, IAH, ORD, DTW, BWI).

Spirit is quite well set up on airside 3 and the west side of terminal B, including having line MX operations and stores there and pretty much has the bulk of 30-39 to themselves. I believe towing 3-5 planes a day from airside 1 or 4 would be far less hassle than moving and setting up ops elsewhere. Again, I reiterate that I am merely guessing.

After the south complex opens, all bets are off.
 
MAH4546
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Re: NK Major Expansion at MCO

Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:39 pm

xdlx wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
msycajun wrote:


All those FLL cuts are temporary seasonal adjustments for the slow fall travel period.


FALL is the high season in FT. Lauderdale


Are you crazy? It is the single slowest time period for travel to/from Miami (and Florida and the Caribbean), Labor Day through Halloween. Not only because it's a generally slow time for people to take vacations, but also something known as the peak of hurricane season.
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