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TK787
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Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:34 pm

Hello there Turkish Aviation fans,
A warm welcome to all, from a pleasant Marmaris evening.

Just a few things to start the conversation:



-China Southern and Hainan to resume service to Istanbul soon.
-Ryanair started 1 x W Dublin to Dalaman. Is this the first time Ryanair flying to Turkey? Long flight.
-I am not happy with the news that KAS (West Antalya) airport is to go ahead with 4M pax capacity; only 15m drive from the city centre. I have no idea why it has to be that big? Why there has to be an airport in Kas with only 7000 residents/less than 50,000 with the surrounding villages. If it goes like this, DATCA or GOKOVA airports can't be far behind :(

Please continue with your views, news, photos, rumors and good old sense of humor.
Safe travels and Happy Landings to all.

****Last months thread here: viewtopic.php?p=20512141#p20512141
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:45 pm

TK787 wrote:
-I am not happy with the news that KAS (West Antalya) airport is to go ahead with 4M pax capacity; only 15m drive from the city centre. I have no idea why it has to be that big? Why there has to be an airport in Kas with only 7000 residents/less than 50,000 with the surrounding villages. If it goes like this, DATCA or GOKOVA airports can't be far behind :(

Normally I am pro-airport growth, but large airports with a 100km+ distance airports to airports to ensure a proper catchment area. This airport is too close to the Antalya (AYT) in my opinion.

Oh well, no one asked me.

Lightsaber
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stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:46 pm

hey TK787, thanks for starting the new thread and enjoy your holidays in beautiful Marmaris.

yes, the first time for FR serving Turkey. not as long as DUB-DLM, their other route is BTS-DLM.

I want to take up the last post of Gokmen from previous months' thread regarding the TK lounge. It surely would be disastrous not to have the lounges ready by the opening date of the new airport. In fact, they need at least two; one for intl. and another one for domestic flights. I read somewhere that TK is going to take up a credit of 1 billion USD during the transition phase to their new home. If true, this is colossal even for a big company as TK. Sure, it's probably backed by government, but still... even an imaginative low interest rate of 0.1% would result in millions of debts probably worth some aircraft they could have purchased instead.
 
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OA260
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:04 pm

Thanks TK787 for a new thread. Not many to go now until the new airport opens.

stylo777 wrote:

I want to take up the last post of Gokmen from previous months' thread regarding the TK lounge. It surely would be disastrous not to have the lounges ready by the opening date of the new airport. In fact, they need at least two; one for intl. and another one for domestic flights. .


Agreed the TK lounges are an important part of the product and not having them in time would be a major issue for the airlines Premium passengers.
 
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BOEING777EK
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:46 pm

Is there any news about the TK's 787 and A350 interior's? And what business class seats should we expect in the new planes?
 
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mercure1
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:08 am

Happy July everyone.

I saw news that Pegasus will open a "sub-hub" (does that mean a focus city?) in Ankara to service Anatolia ethnic traffic - the large flow of migrant labor to/from Europe that routes via Ankara.
As article states, Ankara demand will be largely split between Anadolujet and Pegasus.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/martinrive ... 24154f33f3
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:27 am

lightsaber wrote:

Normally I am pro-airport growth, but large airports with a 100km+ distance airports to airports to ensure a proper catchment area. This airport is too close to the Antalya (AYT) in my opinion.

Oh well, no one asked me.

Lightsaber


I'm sure you would get that very same answer, if you had the chance to ask to the Transportation Minister in Turkish Government! :mrgreen:

Never mind, they are all "pros" do have the "sense & sensibility!"

The strategy is: "Build a mall everywhere, built an airport, anywhere!!!" :cry: :mad:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:30 am

BOEING777EK wrote:
Is there any news about the TK's 787 and A350 interior's? And what business class seats should we expect in the new planes?


That issue is still a very closely guarded secret for those "common people" like us. But I can still bet my bottom dollar that business cabins will have the outdated 2-2-2 layout; I'll be damn surprised to see the 1-2-1 in the foreseeable future (or rather, until I pass away!...) in TK. :? :airplane:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
debonair
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:15 am

Hi, my friends are doing some vacations in Cuba (Havanna) soon - flying with TK's A330 from IST.

The routing is (for me) rather strange: IST-HAV-CCS-IST. Most airlines have decided to overnight their crews outside of Venezuela - or even cancelling the route; so I am wondering, if TK is still doing a crew change in CCS (and so stying 2-3 days in CCS)? Or would it be possible for ONE set of crew to operate HAV-CCS-IST under Turkish CAA law?
 
TK773ER
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:21 am

Turkish Airlines eyes Asia, Americas for New Airport growth In an interview with Business Travel News last month, Eksi said that, free from the growth constraints of the current Istanbul Atatürk Airport, Turkish Airlines would target India primarily followed by China, Canada, and South America.

"Each day, our marketing people are looking for the new destinations. Of course, some of them are in Europe or Africa, but our main market is India, the second is China and the third is Canada," he said adding that South America's full potential would only be realized with Turkish Airlines' incoming fleet of B787-9s and A350-900s.
I think the new IST airport together with 787 and A350 couldn't come sooner for TK. https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ort-growth
 
stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:06 am

TK773ER wrote:
Turkish Airlines eyes Asia, Americas for New Airport growth In an interview with Business Travel News last month, Eksi said that, free from the growth constraints of the current Istanbul Atatürk Airport, Turkish Airlines would target India primarily followed by China, Canada, and South America.

"Each day, our marketing people are looking for the new destinations. Of course, some of them are in Europe or Africa, but our main market is India, the second is China and the third is Canada," he said adding that South America's full potential would only be realized with Turkish Airlines' incoming fleet of B787-9s and A350-900s.
I think the new IST airport together with 787 and A350 couldn't come sooner for TK. https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ort-growth

...good luck with that - all three countries heavily limited in allowed weekly frequencies by bi-laterals, but always worth a try for public lobby ;)
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:13 am

TK773ER wrote:
Turkish Airlines eyes Asia, Americas for New Airport growth In an interview with Business Travel News last month, Eksi said that, free from the growth constraints of the current Istanbul Atatürk Airport, Turkish Airlines would target India primarily followed by China, Canada, and South America.

"Each day, our marketing people are looking for the new destinations. Of course, some of them are in Europe or Africa, but our main market is India, the second is China and the third is Canada," he said adding that South America's full potential would only be realized with Turkish Airlines' incoming fleet of B787-9s and A350-900s.
I think the new IST airport together with 787 and A350 couldn't come sooner for TK. https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ort-growth


Yes, and myself being probably the biggest TK fan in India would love to see nothing short of TK starting Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad, and Kolkata all in one go and really giving EK, EY, and QR a run for their money in the Indian market. But without bilaterals, this is not going to happen. I see that Mr. Eksi mentions something about more cooperation with local airlines, which I find to be promising, because that is probably the only way forward.
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gokmengs
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:20 am

stylo777 wrote:
hey TK787, thanks for starting the new thread and enjoy your holidays in beautiful Marmaris.

yes, the first time for FR serving Turkey. not as long as DUB-DLM, their other route is BTS-DLM.

I want to take up the last post of Gokmen from previous months' thread regarding the TK lounge. It surely would be disastrous not to have the lounges ready by the opening date of the new airport. In fact, they need at least two; one for intl. and another one for domestic flights. I read somewhere that TK is going to take up a credit of 1 billion USD during the transition phase to their new home. If true, this is colossal even for a big company as TK. Sure, it's probably backed by government, but still... even an imaginative low interest rate of 0.1% would result in millions of debts probably worth some aircraft they could have purchased instead.


You are indeed correct TK is finalizing a 1 Billion USD loan from 3 banks IIRC, however please remember the funds are not only for construction of lounge etc, but cargo facilities, moving of TK HQ close to airport, not sure if the deal includes facilities for Turkish Technic. I really hope TK can finish its lounge in time and they will take it to another level from their already much liked IST lounge.
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SCQ83
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:09 pm

Not sure it has been mentioned, but TK has announced service to Marrakech (starting March 31, 2019) and Linz, Austria (starting April 24, 2019).
 
master14225
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:23 pm

Anyone have any news on the route for IST-YVR or daily on other Canadian flights?
 
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:25 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Not sure it has been mentioned, but TK has announced service to Marrakech (starting March 31, 2019) and Linz, Austria (starting April 24, 2019).

it hasn't been mentioned - thank you!
in my opinion, both cities are obvious destinations of considerable size and some demand currently missing on the global map of TK (especially RAK).
are there any (bileteral) restrictions between TR and Morocco? TK serves CMN on daily basis, but with 77W. No other destinations in Morocco like AGA, RBA or FEZ.


btw. TK's Austria network today:
5x daily to VIE (one being from SAW) - surprised not to see any widebodies on the route; usually, those were quite regular...
7x weekly to SZG (with different departure times) - capacity-wise with smallest available equipment (319/320)
4x weekly to GRZ (also varying departure times) - smallest available equipment here as well

after LNZ, KLU and INN would be the only remaining airports in Austria.
here I want to add one more time the vision of introducing regional aircraft to the fleet like the CSeries in order to being able to serve even the smallest markets like above on daily basis from the new airport. in fact, even one plane could easily cover all three destinations daily in one day (with some spare time of 6-7 hours left during the night).
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:31 pm

Just a quick note from DLM. Last night I had a flight at 9:30pm DLM-SAW on TK. Since both INT and DOM pax use the same terminal until the new INT terminal opens, there were huge lines entering the airport. There were 6 Xray machines working at the entrance of the airport with at least 20-30 people in line in each one of them!!!
 
SCQ83
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:36 pm

stylo777 wrote:
it hasn't been mentioned - thank you!
in my opinion, both cities are obvious destinations of considerable size and some demand currently missing on the global map of TK (especially RAK).
are there any (bileteral) restrictions between TR and Morocco? TK serves CMN on daily basis, but with 77W. No other destinations in Morocco like AGA, RBA or FEZ.


Linz is a small airport and city, and relatively close to Vienna. About 400k PAX in 2017. IMO it is a very surprising destination. The only other legacy carrier is Lufthansa. I think INN would make more sense.

Marrakech definitely was a missing gap. Tourism in Morocco is booming and RAK is their most global destination, getting a lot of new service lately. Qatar Airways has been flying to RAK for a while.
 
leftyboarder
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:27 am

Isn't Linz due to runway closure somewhere else in Austria?
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:22 pm

Regarding TK's (and particularly Turkish Cargo's) operation at INA, someone in a foreign forum commented the following (in order to avoid misinterpretations, I'm copy pasting it in full..., the author seems to be an Irishman):

I was speaking with someone yesterday who pointed out how absolutely ridiculous it is and was for TK to say that they plan on having cargo operations laws behind by six months to a year. Over 90 percent of their cargo operations are Trans shipments, meaning cargo that does not come from nor which is destined for Istanbul nor in most cases Turkey furthermore over 80 percent of TK cargo is not carried end to end in TK cargo aircraft end to end meaning that most cargo is transferred not just from plane to plane but often from cargo to passenger plane and vice versa, tk sells these services as serving something like 350 destinations. The point being that having your cargo operations split along two airports will severely curtail their entire cargo operation as having to move containers between airports will essentially kill their operations and those cargo operations are not only a cash cow, but make many of their passenger flights viable. Many products that use TK cargo cannot tolerate a 24 hour delay and there are plenty of competitors lined up to take this business away from TK. Based solely on this, even if everything was ready besides cargo, and it will not be, it would be foolish to move before cargo can move as well.


There are also some recently popped up rumors that TK wants to lease out some planes (inc. 4 333Fs), for some unknown period due to crew shortage, to avoid grounding them. Pls. see the link (but it's in Turkish). Can the above quotation be another reason they want to lease out some of their 333F fleet?

Pls. see the link: https://www.airlinehaber.com/thy-ucakla ... kiraliyor/
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:14 pm

Last minute news is that TK already sub-leased 2 (two) frames. Don't know details yet, and also can't promise you if I will be allowed to reveal them if I happen to be informed...

It's hard to analyse: TK still flies almost 20yo 343s (supposedly configured for Hadj & Umrah flights) which they cannot sell to any third party due to the age & frequencies of these vintage birds, but now they have started leasing out their newer frames but also keep a flock of 16 half antiquated 332s in the fleet. :oops: :crying:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
Turkish350XWB
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:20 pm

New numbers for Turkish airports are out.
I calculated 07/2017 - 06/2018 (12 months period) as follows:
IST: 67'788'092
SAW: 33'205'053
Combined: 100'993'145 (first time >100m)
ESB: 17'820'009

Turkey Total: 207'025'041
 
TK773ER
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:26 am

Looks like TK's order for 25 A359 finally hit the books with Airbus https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html
 
gokmengs
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:05 am

mafaky wrote:
Regarding TK's (and particularly Turkish Cargo's) operation at INA, someone in a foreign forum commented the following (in order to avoid misinterpretations, I'm copy pasting it in full..., the author seems to be an Irishman):

I was speaking with someone yesterday who pointed out how absolutely ridiculous it is and was for TK to say that they plan on having cargo operations laws behind by six months to a year. Over 90 percent of their cargo operations are Trans shipments, meaning cargo that does not come from nor which is destined for Istanbul nor in most cases Turkey furthermore over 80 percent of TK cargo is not carried end to end in TK cargo aircraft end to end meaning that most cargo is transferred not just from plane to plane but often from cargo to passenger plane and vice versa, tk sells these services as serving something like 350 destinations. The point being that having your cargo operations split along two airports will severely curtail their entire cargo operation as having to move containers between airports will essentially kill their operations and those cargo operations are not only a cash cow, but make many of their passenger flights viable. Many products that use TK cargo cannot tolerate a 24 hour delay and there are plenty of competitors lined up to take this business away from TK. Based solely on this, even if everything was ready besides cargo, and it will not be, it would be foolish to move before cargo can move as well.


There are also some recently popped up rumors that TK wants to lease out some planes (inc. 4 333Fs), for some unknown period due to crew shortage, to avoid grounding them. Pls. see the link (but it's in Turkish). Can the above quotation be another reason they want to lease out some of their 333F fleet?

Pls. see the link: https://www.airlinehaber.com/thy-ucakla ... kiraliyor/

Mafaky thanks for your post, I had mentioned this on a prior month thread, till the rumors of elections this project was 100 percent delayed 6-8 months because TK and the govt wanted a "correct" move, with facilities built etc, TK had planned for this, after they pushed on 29th october cluster began but its too late, TK has a very fast growing cargo business but they will take a hit for few months because of the new airport. Once the cargo facility(which will be huge compared to IST) TK will grow its cargo business fast.

As for the 340's when will they reach their cycle limit I wonder, and I truly believe 1 should be kept for a museum as its the airplane that changed TK as we know it.
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:22 am

gokmengs wrote:
As for the 340's when will they reach their cycle limit I wonder, and I truly believe 1 should be kept for a museum as its the airplane that changed TK as we know it.


It's funny... I thought all four remaining A340s had been scrapped few years back, but on my last trip with TK, imagine my surprise when I see 3 of them parked right next to each other at remote stands. Was like seeing ghosts. And fully agree in terms of preservation. Alongside the A310, the A340 made TK what it is today.
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FLYKTPA
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:37 pm

So with the new IST opening in a few months, what new destination do you expect to see Turkish add due to the new airport capacity?
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Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:01 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
So with the new IST opening in a few months, what new destination do you expect to see Turkish add due to the new airport capacity?


Maybe we will see less widebodies on shorter flights as there will be more space for additional frequencies?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:26 am

I expect to see more frequencies, not simply destinations. The hub wave structures can be broadened to further build out network connectivity.
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FLYKTPA
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:38 am

Does anyone know how many banks TK currently has at IST?
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:51 am

-AFAIK, TK has two banks at IST.
-About destinations/frequencies:
In the next five years TK will add 25 x 789s, 25 x 359s and 92 321NEOs, 75 x 737MAXs. Like LAXintl says, I expect increase in frequencies with some new destinations, with all this new capacity. TK already has few LH destinations in their wish list; MEX comes to mind. Also few more US destinations like SEA, Detroit. Like someone else said TK would love to get more India, China, Canada rights. And finally South America will see an increase I imagine with the arrival of 789s. Australia will be a cherry on top. The rest will be all frequencies.
-I wonder how much of this new capacity will be based at SAW? SAW-IST are 60km apart, SAW-INA will be 100km apart. By moving the new airport further away from the Asian side, TK has to decide either to strengthen its hub at SAW or pretty much let it go to Pegasus.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:59 am

Looking at my flight log of all time Top Ten airports:
-IST is at number 1 with 189 flights
-JFK is at number 2 with 171 flights
-LGA is at number 5 with 66 flights
-EWR is at number 7 with 44 flights.
-SAW is at number 8 with 42 flights.
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:07 am

TK787 wrote:
-AFAIK, TK has two banks at IST.
-About destinations/frequencies:
In the next five years TK will add 25 x 789s, 25 x 359s and 92 321NEOs, 75 x 737MAXs. Like LAXintl says, I expect increase in frequencies with some new destinations, with all this new capacity. TK already has few LH destinations in their wish list; MEX comes to mind. Also few more US destinations like SEA, Detroit. Like someone else said TK would love to get more India, China, Canada rights. And finally South America will see an increase I imagine with the arrival of 789s. Australia will be a cherry on top. The rest will be all frequencies.
-I wonder how much of this new capacity will be based at SAW? SAW-IST are 60km apart, SAW-INA will be 100km apart. By moving the new airport further away from the Asian side, TK has to decide either to strengthen its hub at SAW or pretty much let it go to Pegasus.


With all those new planes coming in, are there any plans to phase out some current aircraft--i.e. are some of the current aircraft actually meant to be replacements?
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qf789
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:25 pm

First commercial flight for 737MAX8 for Turkish has been delayed to 3 August, Will now operate to Edinburgh

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 0045436928
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:43 pm

globetrotter94 wrote:

With all those new planes coming in, are there any plans to phase out some current aircraft--i.e. are some of the current aircraft actually meant to be replacements?

I am sure someone else can have a more detailed answer, but YES.
-Probably 4 x 340s will go.
-Probably a dozen 320s and 738 will also go.. and just maybe,a few 330-200s.
but, that's pretty much it, 30 or so frames.
All others are still pretty new.
 
gokmengs
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:23 am

TK787 wrote:
globetrotter94 wrote:

With all those new planes coming in, are there any plans to phase out some current aircraft--i.e. are some of the current aircraft actually meant to be replacements?

I am sure someone else can have a more detailed answer, but YES.
-Probably 4 x 340s will go.
-Probably a dozen 320s and 738 will also go.. and just maybe,a few 330-200s.
but, that's pretty much it, 30 or so frames.
All others are still pretty new.


I happen to think more planes will be retired hence TK needs more planes at the new airport, also TK has to decide on what it will do with its J cabin and Y cabin, launch the product with its new delivery LH planes and start modifying the existing fleet, stuff like this takes years to complete.

I also think TK has to rethink introducing a Y+ product albeit much smaller cabin than the previous comfort class, the competition is heading that way and TK needs to respond. I thought the comfort class product was great but 60+ seats (IIRC) was way too much capacity. Lets see what they will do.
Maybe some here (hint: laxintl) could share if TK is even considering or studying the idea of bringing back comfort class:)
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globetrotter94
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:56 am

gokmengs wrote:
TK787 wrote:
globetrotter94 wrote:

With all those new planes coming in, are there any plans to phase out some current aircraft--i.e. are some of the current aircraft actually meant to be replacements?

I am sure someone else can have a more detailed answer, but YES.
-Probably 4 x 340s will go.
-Probably a dozen 320s and 738 will also go.. and just maybe,a few 330-200s.
but, that's pretty much it, 30 or so frames.
All others are still pretty new.


I happen to think more planes will be retired hence TK needs more planes at the new airport, also TK has to decide on what it will do with its J cabin and Y cabin, launch the product with its new delivery LH planes and start modifying the existing fleet, stuff like this takes years to complete.

I also think TK has to rethink introducing a Y+ product albeit much smaller cabin than the previous comfort class, the competition is heading that way and TK needs to respond. I thought the comfort class product was great but 60+ seats (IIRC) was way too much capacity. Lets see what they will do.
Maybe some here (hint: laxintl) could share if TK is even considering or studying the idea of bringing back comfort class:)


The problem, I thought, with the old Comfort Class was that the seats were so good to the point of cutting into demand for Business--so didn't really make sense for TK from a business perspective. In case TK reintroduces premium eco. in future, I think they'll have to take a good long look at what level of service would really be "in between" their regular economy and business offering.
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:34 pm

Here are the main planned retirements by 2023 per investor update:

A330-200 - 12
A330-300 - 8
777-300ER - 3 (Kenya Airways birds)
737-800 - 30
A320 - 12
A321 - 4

Many of these are leases, so there is always flexibility to adjust if market demand requires.

Deliveries by 2023:

A359-900 - 25
B787-9 - 25
737MAX9 - 10
737MAX8 - 65
A321NEO - 92

I would also keep in mind plans are for Anadolujet to get its own AOC, so TK will likely adjust the wet-lease arrangements they have today with people like Sun Express which means Ajet will need to have additional frames for itself.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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globetrotter94
Posts: 379
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:50 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Here are the main planned retirements by 2023 per investor update:

A330-200 - 12
A330-300 - 8
777-300ER - 3 (Kenya Airways birds)
737-800 - 30
A320 - 12
A321 - 4

Many of these are leases, so there is always flexibility to adjust if market demand requires.

Deliveries by 2023:

A359-900 - 25
B787-9 - 25
737MAX9 - 10
737MAX8 - 65
A321NEO - 92

I would also keep in mind plans are for Anadolujet to get its own AOC, so TK will likely adjust the wet-lease arrangements they have today with people like Sun Express which means Ajet will need to have additional frames for itself.


If the ex-KQ 77Ws are going away, then I wonder how TK will manage on routes to India. Those 3 happen to be the only high-density 77Ws that TK have, with only 28 J class seats. They are especially critical to the India flights owing to the limited bilaterals--and I don't think that TK will have any aircraft with equal or higher capacity at that point?
6E, 9W, AF, AI, B6, BA, BI, CA, DN, IC, JL, KL, KU, NH, QR, SQ, TG, TK*, UA, VS
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:34 pm

Here is a link from the NYT on the Turkish economy. It discusses amongst other things the new airport and the new canal. The gist of the warning is that much of the economy has been borrowing in foreign currencies, but earn money to pay back in Turkish currency, which is seriously devaluing. The article seems to be soundly written and comprehensive. If substantially accurate it is not good news.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/busi ... dogan.html
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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globetrotter94
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:05 am

Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:49 pm

Does TK earn money in Lira? Or foreign currency? I would imagine that at least for bookings billed in, e.g. New York, they would be earning USD.
6E, 9W, AF, AI, B6, BA, BI, CA, DN, IC, JL, KL, KU, NH, QR, SQ, TG, TK*, UA, VS
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 22686
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:05 pm

Unable to get more slots in HKG, TK is looking at serving Macau.

http://www.macaubusiness.com/macau-excl ... to-europe/


globetrotter94 wrote:
Does TK earn money in Lira? Or foreign currency? I would imagine that at least for bookings billed in, e.g. New York, they would be earning USD.


As management has previously stated a weaker Lira helps TK. Only 14% of its income is in Lira, but 27% expenses were in the Lira as of Q1. In other words, it takes in more foreign currency than it pays out. Of course, a weaker Lira also helps make Turkey and Turkish products more attractive which can further aid TK with more passenger and cargo traffic.

TK also has a USD/EUR hedging portfolio which helps manage currency stability.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
aldrigsomandre
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:30 am

Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:40 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Unable to get more slots in HKG, TK is looking at serving Macau.

http://www.macaubusiness.com/macau-excl ... to-europe/



HKG is ridiculously congested. I predict that the Macau flights will be a smashing success, if TK gets the European connections right. Especially from Portugal and lately, Eastern Europe.

I would not be surprised if TK goes daily soon after launch.
 
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Yakamoz
Posts: 471
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:09 pm

Only 6 weekly Flights to HKG. New connection to Macau is ok but for sure not enough. TK is really very weak in China and India, compared to their competitors.
 
stylo777
Posts: 2323
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:11 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Unable to get more slots in HKG, TK is looking at serving Macau.

http://www.macaubusiness.com/macau-excl ... to-europe/


globetrotter94 wrote:
Does TK earn money in Lira? Or foreign currency? I would imagine that at least for bookings billed in, e.g. New York, they would be earning USD.


As management has previously stated a weaker Lira helps TK. Only 14% of its income is in Lira, but 27% expenses were in the Lira as of Q1. In other words, it takes in more foreign currency than it pays out. Of course, a weaker Lira also helps make Turkey and Turkish products more attractive which can further aid TK with more passenger and cargo traffic.

TK also has a USD/EUR hedging portfolio which helps manage currency stability.

Whats the share of true dom-dom and int-int in terms of revenue, profit, etc.? Aircraft leases, their insurances, fuel, airport charges (landing, terminal, ...) and surely many more items are paid in or based on foreign currencies (USD/EUR) whereas Mr. Yildirim flying ADB to TZX via IST pays his ticket in TRY. Even with the highest domestic fares, it is just a drop on the hot stone in my opinion since I assume the share of true domestic flying is quite high. Exept on routes like ESB/ADB-IST I don't believe any route can be profitable at all.
 
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mafaky
Posts: 471
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:22 pm

Yakamoz wrote:
Only 6 weekly Flights to HKG. New connection to Macau is ok but for sure not enough. TK is really very weak in China and India, compared to their competitors.


Simple and straightforward EXPLANATION: the bilaterals don't allow for more... :twisted: For the moment, TK has to wait until the Chinese and/or Indian carriers to start services to Turkey, particularly to Istanbul. If these frequencies can be filled out on both sides (i.e. frequencies by Turkish Airlines equal the frequencies of Chinese/Indian airliners...) then Turkey will have the chance for asking to increase the frequencies, within the scope of the bilaterals. Before that: no chance!!!
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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TK105
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:40 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:39 pm

Macau is a great idea. It can work both ways traffic and cargo will be the bonus.
The future is in the skies.
 
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mercure1
Posts: 3928
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:08 pm

Macau flight prospects should benefit with the new Hong Kong–Zhuhai–Macau bridge that will allow consumers to more easily choose using MFM airport.

stylo777 wrote:
I don't believe any route can be profitable at all.


If no routes are profitable, how is it TK is earning profits and expects 2018 to be a good one?
 
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mafaky
Posts: 471
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Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:51 am

This Macau TK services seem to be "the fountain behind that high mountain", and I personally don't expect a very near future opening.

Pls. see again (as already posted by LAXIntl) the article where it all started from:

http://www.macaubusiness.com/macau-excl ... to-europe/

That very same article also includes Macau Airport's Authorities saying that their Passenger Terminal Capacity is rather "squeezed" currently, until an expansion project can be realised. Naturally, this doesn't necessarily mean they cannot accomodate TK's planned thrice weekly flights (say, max. 1800 pax traffic/weekly).
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 22686
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:11 am

United Parcel Service (UPS), announced yesterday that it will expand its air operations in Turkey with a new facility to be established at the Istanbul New Airport.
The new facility will effectively connect customers in Turkey with the regions in the rest of the world via UPS's intercontinental air hub in Cologne, Germany. The new facility is planned to be four times larger than the UPS facility at Istanbul Atatürk International Airport and set to open before the end of 2018.


UPS to expand cross-border trade capacity with Istanbul New Airport
https://www.dailysabah.com/economy/2018 ... ew-airport
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mercure1
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Turkish Aviation July 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:20 am

Turkish Airlines adding tenth daily flight from Tel Aviv

https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-turk ... 1001245958

Wow. :eyepopping:

TLV is like a domestic service for TK.

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