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User avatar
SelandiaBaru
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:39 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:33 pm

bonzolab wrote:
SelandiaBaru wrote:
bonzolab wrote:

28kts wet runway. How is icing a big consideration?


A number of operators will limit below that in order to be able to control the aircraft. Icing performance would be a consideration for remote operations given a number of scenarios - en-route decisions, holding, loitering etc.


I don' think so. Zero terrain issues between NZ and the Chats. Get iced up, descend. If crews are having trouble controlling the aircraft as you put it then I think they may need to reevaluate their technique/career choice.


Correct. But fuel burn is higher at lower levels and out to the Chats fuel is a big consideration. It's not about the trouble of controlling, even if it is a bit more challenging but it's overall suitability and there are many reasons why Chats won't go for the ATR.
 
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aerorobnz
Posts: 8139
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:24 am

The 732C could be configured as below, I'm not sure the 733C is as flexible. As far as 3C they could operate a full Convair load of passengers with 3 pallets. All this talk of fuel burn is irrelevant if you can uplift that much additional revenue to compensate. There are not many options here to choose from, maybe a DHC-7 but they are more scarce than 580s. A 146 has a disappointing range, the 328Jet not large enough. Newer aeroplanes aren't robust enough and dent too easily. (not the heavy grade Al the used to use)

Combi Configurations:

112 seats / 0 pallets of cargo
76 seats / 2 pallets of cargo
60 seats / 3 pallets of cargo
34 seats / 4 pallets of cargo
24 seats / 5 pallets of cargo
6 seats / 6 pallets of cargo
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:00 am

aerorobnz wrote:
The 732C could be configured as below, I'm not sure the 733C is as flexible.

My understanding is that they are going to go for a 734C instead - not a 732C or 733C. Perhaps ex-AS?

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:21 am

In case of interest, some government-related aviation developments today:

1. Transport Minister Twyford has been fined $500 for using his phone on-board a NZ flight - he has now been re-instated as minister responsible for aviation.

2. $2.3 billion will be spent on 4 Boeing P-8A Poseidon's to replace the ageing P-3 Orions.

See: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12085784.

And no, no burger/meat-related bashing today from Winston Peters re NZ!

:lol:

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:51 am

Wellington Airport has begun preliminary demolition work ahead of a $15 million upgrade of the airport’s main terminal building - the largest upgrade since 1999! The work will be carried out progressively over the next 12 months. Once completed, visitors will have expansive views across the terminal to aircraft and the coast.

I can't wait to see the end result.

Image

See: https://www.wellingtonairport.co.nz/new ... rade-1999/.

Cheers,

C.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3441
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:53 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Wellington Airport has begun preliminary demolition work ahead of a $15 million upgrade of the airport’s main terminal building - the largest upgrade since 1999! The work will be carried out progressively over the next 12 months. Once completed, visitors will have expansive views across the terminal to aircraft and the coast.

I can't wait to see the end result.

Image

See: https://www.wellingtonairport.co.nz/new ... rade-1999/.

Cheers,

C.


From link...

“The upgrade will transform the airport’s main terminal to a light, open space where travellers can intuitively find their way to and from their flights.”


This will be very welcome as progressively more and more retails clutter has obscured the views. The upcoming work looks to return it to something akin tot he terminal's original design.
come visit the south pacific
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 793
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:22 am

planemanofnz wrote:
In case of interest, some government-related aviation developments today:

1. Transport Minister Twyford has been fined $500 for using his phone on-board a NZ flight - he has now been re-instated as minister responsible for aviation.

2. $2.3 billion will be spent on 4 Boeing P-8A Poseidon's to replace the ageing P-3 Orions.

See: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12085784.

And no, no burger/meat-related bashing today from Winston Peters re NZ!

:lol:

Cheers,

C.


http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political ... ging-fleet

Some other interesting notes on the P-8 purchase.

The squadron will be moving to Ohakea since Whenuapai isn't long enough from MTOW take offs. The length issue was pointed out here before but people seemed to expect them to remain at Whenuapai.

Also there's an investigation into smaller MPA planes to free up the Poseidons for longer range stuff. With news on that to come out towards the end of the year.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3023
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:59 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political ... ging-fleet

Some other interesting notes on the P-8 purchase.

The squadron will be moving to Ohakea since Whenuapai isn't long enough from MTOW take offs. The length issue was pointed out here before but people seemed to expect them to remain at Whenuapai.

Also there's an investigation into smaller MPA planes to free up the Poseidons for longer range stuff. With news on that to come out towards the end of the year.


Maybe some converted ex NZ 72-500s? for the short range costal missions?
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 793
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:00 am

zkncj wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political ... ging-fleet

Some other interesting notes on the P-8 purchase.

The squadron will be moving to Ohakea since Whenuapai isn't long enough from MTOW take offs. The length issue was pointed out here before but people seemed to expect them to remain at Whenuapai.

Also there's an investigation into smaller MPA planes to free up the Poseidons for longer range stuff. With news on that to come out towards the end of the year.


Maybe some converted ex NZ 72-500s? for the short range costal missions?


There are a few options for the smaller stuff. I'm thinking either the CASA-195MPA or ATR-72MPA are the front runners. Still have solid range but should be cheaper to run. Especially without the super top end gear the P-8s will have. Then again it might even be something smaller with some basic radar and a camera turret with no weapon capability.

Actually dropping the weapon requirement for a smaller aircraft should drastically reduce costs. So yeah, my money is on the mid sized turboprops.
 
axio
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:06 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Wellington Airport has begun preliminary demolition work ahead of a $15 million upgrade of the airport’s main terminal building - the largest upgrade since 1999! The work will be carried out progressively over the next 12 months. Once completed, visitors will have expansive views across the terminal to aircraft and the coast.

I can't wait to see the end result.

Image

See: https://www.wellingtonairport.co.nz/new ... rade-1999/.

Cheers,

C.

Now I feel like an old bastard.... I remember getting my Dad to drive me down (from Palmy) to the new terminal open day way back before it first opened. It was quite a breath of fresh air compared to more enclosed style of the previous terminal, and the surprisingly steep deep red ramp from the old check-in to the NZ domestic gates.
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:19 pm

On CHT, it seems we are one step closer to the runway extension allowing for 3C's 737 combi services! The CHT Facebook page says that there have been geotechnical test pits and pavement strength tests to gather data for design of the proposed runway extension, as well as detailed grid surveys of the entire airport property.

Fulton Hogan have separately been involved in the rebuilding of 3C's fuel truck park.

See: https://www.facebook.com/Tuuta-Airport- ... ?ref=br_rs.

All up, this is good news - it'll be interesting to see a design of the runway extension.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:21 pm

MCY anticipates future growth for NZ's AKL service, which re-started this month - perhaps there'll be an extension of the season at some point?

See: https://blueswandaily.com/sunshine-coas ... nal-route/.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:29 pm

SQ has reported growth of more than 20% year-on-year for traffic from India to New Zealand, and an Indian newspaper here says that non-stop flights are becoming more probable.

While the case for non-stop flights has grown stronger, I don't see them as being any more likely. AI is a financial mess and its 77L's are tied-up, while NZ can't serve DEL in the ASA.

See: https://www.indianweekender.co.nz/Pages ... l-of-passe.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:36 pm

More slack for NZ over the no-meat burger - this time from Federated Farmers, who say NZ should be doing more to promote New Zealand wool (specifically, transportation wool supplied to NZ by Inter-Weave Ltd): ... why would our national carrier build an advertising campaign around a foreign product and not a cutting-edge Kiwi firm supplying a key component made from a natural, sustainable New Zealand product? I personally think that recent levels of criticism of NZ over each and every one of its strategies is getting a bit OTT now, including this particular example.

See: http://gisborneherald.co.nz/opinion/345 ... eat-in-air.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:40 pm

The first students in the Massey University - Qantas Group Future Pilot programme started their studies on Monday. Four are entering the programme in the first intake and two in the second. The students selected for the programme would complete their degree and then head into a training course, which JQ would provide. Students would be offered jobs at JQ at the end of it.

Jetstar's local operations manager Captain Ian Grigg said the airline decided to bring the programme to New Zealand because of an expected shortage of pilots globally.

It's great to see the QF Group supporting local pilot trainees. AFAIK, NZ doesn't so anything like this right now - hopefully they're watching this, and will do in the future.

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standa ... ts-soaring.

Cheers,

C.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 3336
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:41 pm

Regarding the Chathams, I do wonder what tourism growth a runway extension could bring. Obviously it is never going to be popular to the level that places like Svalbard, Punta Arenas, the Alaska Riviera, Lofoten, The Falklands and Iceland etc are, but surely it could do better than where it's at today. I guess the main barriers to that are the lack infrastructure and therefore the extreme cost of building anything. I'd imagine that the cost of importing a vehicle or some farming/construction equipment to the island would be ridiculous also. Being in the middle of nowhere, there is no reason for any cruise ships to visit. Recently they had a new wharf built, which caused the PM to imply that the central government planned further investment in the community.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... ham-island

Internally in New Zealand I've never seen much interest in tourism to the Chathams, though one of my friends from Europe really wants to visit.

NZ321 wrote:
Why doesn't NZ run a dedicated freighter? QF does and NZ used to with the DC8.

They have dozens of transtasman flights with 77E/77W/789s each day, with loads and loads of belly capacity.

If they were to run dedicated freighters, what type would they use?

Zkpilot wrote:
I’m sorry but you’re wrong. Name one other degree or course that costs $100k where the average person that actually completes it only has around a 10% chance of making it into a proper job (in this case an airline)?


Sadly it is closer to 180k now. :roll:

DavidByrne wrote:
I'd suggest that QF in return has much less interest in serving further NZ ports, so NZ would be unlikely to find itself in the same position.

I honestly doubt that QF was considering adding any additional NZ destinations anyway, regardless of any "understanding".

SelandiaBaru wrote:
Precisely, over 10 years into my career I absolutely love my job but more and more I start considering whether or not it was a smart choice. It doesn't really stack up financially in NZ anymore and that's having gone down the student loan route.

In today's environment I think trying to work jobs and get the flying training done is rather fanciful. Life is expensive and the training requires a commitment. This means a sacrifice of personal life and the reality of doing your paid work poorly and even failing exams and flight tests. Neither of which are helpful when it comes to getting the edge on fellow applicants for the long-desired flying job. The other downside is the training takes longer and you could miss the hiring cycle or take too long to get on the ladder and actually start earning.

The reality is the environment is changing, rapidly now. It's taken a while for NZ to cotton on to the new reality but it is happening and things are changing in a way that even I didn't think would happen like they are.

All that aside. I encourage anyone silly enough to entertain becoming a pilot to take a long-hard look at the career and ensure you have marketable skills outside flying the aircraft. If you decide to go down this path make sure you have the insurances to be able to support you and your family (if you're lucky enough not have cocked that up in your pursuit of flying) when a change in career path becomes a medical necessity.

Good post. The fact is that the costs associated with training have gone up considerably in recent years. Historically it has generally taken around ten years between the beginning of flight training and getting ones first job at an airline. For the first few of those years there are extreme flight training costs and thereafter there are very meagre wages in General Aviation as someone builds their hours. Once finally in the door at Mt Cook, Air Nelson, Jetstar Regional or whoever else, there's hundreds of thousands of student debt to be paid back. Then comes the icing on the cake whereby all of those regional carriers only recruit to bases in AKL/CHC/WLG - good luck trying to afford a home there. :(

Meanwhile easyjet has been recruiting very young guys and girls, straight out of training, to the right hand seat of A319/A320s and have done so for nearly twenty years, whilst maintaining a perfect safety record. Eventually Air New Zealand will have to do similar (obviously with new recruits going to the ATR/Dash8 fleet). Qantas already bit the bullet earlier this year and are in the process of starting up their academy.
Most recent aircraft flown: A318 F-GUGQ, A319 F-GRHR, A320ceo D-AIZH, A320neo D-AINE, A330-300 VH-QPD, A350-900 B-LRA, A380-800 D-AIMH, 717 VH-YQW, 737-600 LN-RPA, 737-700 OY-JTY, 737-800 LN-NGA, 767-300 ZK-NCI, 777-300 ZK-OKN, 787-9 VH-ZNA, CS100 HB-JBG
 
PA515
Posts: 1373
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:48 pm

zkncj wrote:
Maybe some converted ex NZ 72-500s? for the short range costal missions?

If they were to go for used aircraft then ex Air NZ Q300s would be a good choice. It looks like three ATR72-600s will replace three Q300s from early 2020.

In recent years used Q300s have been converted to MPA for the Japan Coast Guard, Australian Customs Coastwatch, and the US Department of Homeland Security. They had all previously purchased new aircraft, but required more. The Air NZ Q300s are later builds and would have a longer useful life.

PA515
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1219
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:52 pm

zkojq wrote:
I honestly doubt that QF was considering adding any additional NZ destinations anyway, regardless of any "understanding".

Exactly - the "understanding" (if indeed one occurred) would have been a very one-sided affair in which NZ's concession would have exceeded QF's.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:57 pm

Serious question, will DL ever enter the New Zealand market? Maybe with a seasonal LAX-AKL?
 
a7ala
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:14 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Serious question, will DL ever enter the New Zealand market? Maybe with a seasonal LAX-AKL?


Maybe, but not on AKL. AKL-USA is a bloodbath and better yields can be obtained from CHC or WLG with no competition. Maybe an LAX-WLG-CHC-LAX? Could WLG-CHC-LAX be operated with one crew?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6306
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:06 am

a7ala wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Serious question, will DL ever enter the New Zealand market? Maybe with a seasonal LAX-AKL?


Maybe, but not on AKL. AKL-USA is a bloodbath and better yields can be obtained from CHC or WLG with no competition. Maybe an LAX-WLG-CHC-LAX? Could WLG-CHC-LAX be operated with one crew?


Really? With DL/VA they serve SYD/MEL/BNE-LAX, an AKL service would be next over CHC let alone WLG.

I don’t think it’s impossible to think DL might do an AKL-LAX run at some point. They don’t have as many long haul aircraft as UA/AA though so that could be an issue
 
a7ala
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:15 am

ZK-NBT wrote:

Really? With DL/VA they serve SYD/MEL/BNE-LAX, an AKL service would be next over CHC let alone WLG.

I don’t think it’s impossible to think DL might do an AKL-LAX run at some point. They don’t have as many long haul aircraft as UA/AA though so that could be an issue


FYI

USA Seats
SYD 2.7M
AKL 1.5M
MEL 1.0M
BNE 0.6M

So 4.2M seats between AU and US (serving an AU population of 24M) vs 1.5M NZ-US (serving an NZ population of 4.6M) or twice as many seats per capita in NZ (concentrated on AKL) than OZ...
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6306
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:51 am

a7ala wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Really? With DL/VA they serve SYD/MEL/BNE-LAX, an AKL service would be next over CHC let alone WLG.

I don’t think it’s impossible to think DL might do an AKL-LAX run at some point. They don’t have as many long haul aircraft as UA/AA though so that could be an issue


FYI

USA Seats
SYD 2.7M
AKL 1.5M
MEL 1.0M
BNE 0.6M

So 4.2M seats between AU and US (serving an AU population of 24M) vs 1.5M NZ-US (serving an NZ population of 4.6M) or twice as many seats per capita in NZ (concentrated on AKL) than OZ...



That’s skewed though as NZ have a lot of connections from Australia to the US and there are other 1 stop options like TN/FJ/HA.

Are you saying AKL is overserved or Australia is underserved?

What makes you say AKL yields aren’t great? Or that WLG/CHC would be better despite no competition?
 
Unclekoru
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:39 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
In case of interest, some government-related aviation developments today:

1. Transport Minister Twyford has been fined $500 for using his phone on-board a NZ flight - he has now been re-instated as minister responsible for aviation.

2. $2.3 billion will be spent on 4 Boeing P-8A Poseidon's to replace the ageing P-3 Orions.

See: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12085784.

And no, no burger/meat-related bashing today from Winston Peters re NZ!

:lol:

Cheers,

C.


http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political ... ging-fleet

Some other interesting notes on the P-8 purchase.

The squadron will be moving to Ohakea since Whenuapai isn't long enough from MTOW take offs. The length issue was pointed out here before but people seemed to expect them to remain at Whenuapai.

Also there's an investigation into smaller MPA planes to free up the Poseidons for longer range stuff. With news on that to come out towards the end of the year.


Where does this leave Whenuapai? Housing? It's a large facility for a couple of 757s. Is there anything else based there still?

PA515 wrote:
If they were to go for used aircraft then ex Air NZ Q300s would be a good choice. It looks like three ATR72-600s will replace three Q300s from early 2020.

In recent years used Q300s have been converted to MPA for the Japan Coast Guard, Australian Customs Coastwatch, and the US Department of Homeland Security. They had all previously purchased new aircraft, but required more. The Air NZ Q300s are later builds and would have a longer useful life.


While never say never, it was my understanding that those 3 ATR's are for growth and not Q300 replacement.

axio wrote:
Now I feel like an old bastard.... I remember getting my Dad to drive me down (from Palmy) to the new terminal open day way back before it first opened. It was quite a breath of fresh air compared to more enclosed style of the previous terminal, and the surprisingly steep deep red ramp from the old check-in to the NZ domestic gates.


In my opinion, it's still the most pleasant airport facility in the country. A real pleasure to transit through.
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
ZKNCI
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:22 am

Unclekoru wrote:
Where does this leave Whenuapai? Housing? It's a large facility for a couple of 757s. Is there anything else based there still?

Hercs (40sqn) and SH-2s (6sqn) are still based there, as well as the 757s (40sqn also).
Ohakea would be a bit full moving 40sqn down along with 5sqn (P-3s, future P-8s), especially if Singapore does send down a bunch of fighters for training, and the Sprites would be too far from the RNZN. I'd assume if they do want a smaller coastal patrol type they may look at basing them at Whenuapai, as the CDF seems to imply they won't leave any time soon. Guess more would come out when the Herc replacement gets underway
 
Unclekoru
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:34 am

ZKNCI wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
Where does this leave Whenuapai? Housing? It's a large facility for a couple of 757s. Is there anything else based there still?

Hercs (40sqn) and SH-2s (6sqn) are still based there, as well as the 757s (40sqn also).
Ohakea would be a bit full moving 40sqn down along with 5sqn (P-3s, future P-8s), especially if Singapore does send down a bunch of fighters for training, and the Sprites would be too far from the RNZN. I'd assume if they do want a smaller coastal patrol type they may look at basing them at Whenuapai, as the CDF seems to imply they won't leave any time soon. Guess more would come out when the Herc replacement gets underway


So still a bit going on at Whenuapai then. I imagine Auckland is probably the best location for 40sqn givens it's proximity to the Pacific Islands and being one terminus on the main truck line (WHP-OHK-WLG-CHC). Assume the twice weekly shuttle (or whatever it's called) still runs?
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:24 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Serious question, will DL ever enter the New Zealand market? Maybe with a seasonal LAX-AKL?

IMO, a lot of what DL will do in Australasia going forward will depend on what will happen with VA in the next year or two. For example, when Borghetti goes, new management might restructure VA into more of a regional carrier, and so DL might have to take over LAX - MEL or LAX - BNE from VA (minimizing the chance of them launching LAX - AKL). Further, VA may become more risk averse under new management, which might reduce the chance of them adding a LAX - AKL service into their DL JV (I assume DL would want the service within the DL - VA JV). That being said, I personally think that New Zealand makes sense for DL, given the projected growth within the United States - New Zealand corridor. Let's wait and see!

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:36 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
What makes you say AKL yields aren’t great?

IMO, AKL has good yields, albeit only seasonally - hence why UA introduced the Polaris product here, and AA upgraded us to a 789 (the same level as its SYD operations at that time).

ZK-NBT wrote:
Or that WLG/CHC would be better despite no competition?

There's an argument that an airline could charge a premium on CHC - LAX to AKL - LAX, and there'd be demand, given the recent growth in the United States - New Zealand corridor?

Then again, CHC's traffic mix will still be the same as it was back in the mid-2000's when NZ tried this - that is, largely leisure-focused, and without the business and hub traffic of AKL.

I don't see AA, DL or NZ launching CHC - North America flights, for this, among various other reasons. Potentially, we might see UA do CHC like CX did, in exchange for JV approval?

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:52 pm

zkojq wrote:
Regarding the Chathams, I do wonder what tourism growth a runway extension could bring ...

zkojq wrote:
Internally in New Zealand I've never seen much interest in tourism to the Chathams ...

I doubt a runway extension will do much - accommodation is still highly limited, which will keep the price out of reach for many. Separately, with over 30% of New Zealand’s threatened species on the Chatham Islands, there is a debate as to how much tourism we should be exposing the Chatham Islands too. IMHO, sustainability is key. It'll be a balancing act.

That being said, even with the 737 combi, I'm not sure that the number of seats available to CHT will grow by that much - the plane will still be primarily in a cargo-based configuration. I also don't think that 3C actually needs that much of an up-tick in tourism, in order to support the business case for the 737 combi - again, freight will still sustain these operations.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:59 pm

Unclekoru wrote:
Where does this leave Whenuapai? Housing?

ZKNCI wrote:
Hercs (40sqn) and SH-2s (6sqn) are still based there, as well as the 757s (40sqn also).

Yes - Kevin Short (New Defence Force Chief) said it would still be "decades" before Whenuapai becomes redundant.

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local- ... -to-ohakea.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:08 pm

EK will cut some AKL services in April and May of 2019, while DXB's runway is getting some work done. CHC is unaffected.

Dubai – Auckland Reduce from 7 to 6 weekly for nonstop sector, Day 2 (Day 3 from AKL) closed for booking
Dubai – Denpasar – Auckland Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly, Day 14 closed for booking


AKL has fared better than many others in the cuts as a proportion to overall services (less than SYD, BNE, ADL and PER).

See: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-project/.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:20 pm

NZ has revealed some insights into its holiday-related traffic this winter:

- NAN was up 31% (!), DPS 26%, China 21%, APW 15% and Thailand 7%.
- NAN was the most popular destination for ex-AKL, NPE and PMR traffic.
- BNE was the most popular destination for Dunedinites and Cantabrians.
- RAR was the most popular destination ex-Southland and the West Coast.

Given NAN's phenomenal growth, could we see NZ consider SUV in the near future, given SUV's runway extension is now going ahead?

See:
- http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/busine ... -holidays/.
- http://fijisun.com.fj/2018/07/09/nausor ... deal-done/.

Cheers,

C.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:19 pm

Unclekoru wrote:
PA515 wrote:
If they were to go for used aircraft then ex Air NZ Q300s would be a good choice. It looks like three ATR72-600s will replace three Q300s from early 2020.

In recent years used Q300s have been converted to MPA for the Japan Coast Guard, Australian Customs Coastwatch, and the US Department of Homeland Security. They had all previously purchased new aircraft, but required more. The Air NZ Q300s are later builds and would have a longer useful life.


While never say never, it was my understanding that those 3 ATR's are for growth and not Q300 replacement.

The additional ATR72-600s were said to be for growth, but it was not specified how that would occur. There appear to be three ATR72-600s for delivery in early 2020 after the last ATR72-500 is withdrawn in Nov 2019. I am assuming these will replace Q300s instead of additional ATR72-600 flights on existing ATR routes, but it could be a bit of both. AKL-BHE, TRG-CHC and IVC-WLG are possible. Don't know what they're planning to use for WKA before it's A320 capable, but assuming CHC-WKA rather than AKL-WKA.

PA515
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1219
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:34 pm

Unclekoru wrote:
While never say never, it was my understanding that those 3 ATR's are for growth and not Q300 replacement.

It's not inconsistent for the three ATRs to be for growth and that they might replace three Q300s if that is what transpires. In effect, it's still upsizing the capacity of the provincial fleet = growth. Perhaps not of the kind that we imagined, but growth nevertheless.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1219
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:41 pm

PA515 wrote:
Don't know what they're planning to use for WKA before it's A320 capable, but assuming CHC-WKA rather than AKL-WKA.

I've heard no suggestion that they'll do anything at all prior to introducing A320s on AKL-WKA, and I doubt that's imminent given the need for a serious runway upgrade. As for CHC-WKA: they tried and failed with the BEH, and while the Q300 does have better economics per seat there was no suggestion that the route would transition to Q300s - it was just dropped. I assume there's no impediment to using the Q300 at WKA - runway-wise it has several hundred feet on WRE.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
a7ala
Posts: 213
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:28 am

DavidByrne wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Don't know what they're planning to use for WKA before it's A320 capable, but assuming CHC-WKA rather than AKL-WKA.

I've heard no suggestion that they'll do anything at all prior to introducing A320s on AKL-WKA, and I doubt that's imminent given the need for a serious runway upgrade. As for CHC-WKA: they tried and failed with the BEH, and while the Q300 does have better economics per seat there was no suggestion that the route would transition to Q300s - it was just dropped. I assume there's no impediment to using the Q300 at WKA - runway-wise it has several hundred feet on WRE.


My bet would be for WLG-WKA with Q300 linking with everywhere north of that through the NZ domestic hub. There is now more capacity WLG-ZQN than CHC-ZQN highlighting how many people drive round the South Island.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6306
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:08 am

a7ala wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Don't know what they're planning to use for WKA before it's A320 capable, but assuming CHC-WKA rather than AKL-WKA.

I've heard no suggestion that they'll do anything at all prior to introducing A320s on AKL-WKA, and I doubt that's imminent given the need for a serious runway upgrade. As for CHC-WKA: they tried and failed with the BEH, and while the Q300 does have better economics per seat there was no suggestion that the route would transition to Q300s - it was just dropped. I assume there's no impediment to using the Q300 at WKA - runway-wise it has several hundred feet on WRE.


My bet would be for WLG-WKA with Q300 linking with everywhere north of that through the NZ domestic hub. There is now more capacity WLG-ZQN than CHC-ZQN highlighting how many people drive round the South Island.


CHC/ZQN 4 daily or 28 weekly 9 A320’s, 19 ATR’s.
WLG-ZQN 18 weekly 14 A320’s, 4 ATR’s.

More frequency through CHC still.
 
Unclekoru
Posts: 283
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:13 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
While never say never, it was my understanding that those 3 ATR's are for growth and not Q300 replacement.

It's not inconsistent for the three ATRs to be for growth and that they might replace three Q300s if that is what transpires. In effect, it's still upsizing the capacity of the provincial fleet = growth. Perhaps not of the kind that we imagined, but growth nevertheless.


That is indeed a possible scenario. At this point though, there have been no announcements (or suggestions) that the Q300 fleet is to be reduced. But agree, there's nothing to say that it couldn't or won't happen.

PA515 wrote:
The additional ATR72-600s were said to be for growth, but it was not specified how that would occur. There appear to be three ATR72-600s for delivery in early 2020 after the last ATR72-500 is withdrawn in Nov 2019. I am assuming these will replace Q300s instead of additional ATR72-600 flights on existing ATR routes, but it could be a bit of both. AKL-BHE, TRG-CHC and IVC-WLG are possible. Don't know what they're planning to use for WKA before it's A320 capable, but assuming CHC-WKA rather than AKL-WKA.


Not sure about AKL-BHE (has already been tried with poor results) but agree with the other two, amongst others. I wonder what timeframe they have in mind for WKA?
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:01 am

Unclekoru wrote:
I wonder what timeframe they have in mind for WKA?


They really need to get that underway soon. Was watching ZQN on FR24 yesterday afternoon and several aircraft had to hold prior to the RNP approach and two had to wait on the taxiway for gates.There were some late arrivals conflicting with those on schedule. ZQN has seven 320 / 737 gates plus the two ATR gates. They were supposed to be moving the parking for corporate jets to an adjacent area which would give space for an eighth gate. They also need more hard standing areas. The taxiway is quite short.

PA515
 
Unclekoru
Posts: 283
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:51 am

PA515 wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
I wonder what timeframe they have in mind for WKA?


They really need to get that underway soon. Was watching ZQN on FR24 yesterday afternoon and several aircraft had to hold prior to the RNP approach and two had to wait on the taxiway for gates.There were some late arrivals conflicting with those on schedule. ZQN has seven 320 / 737 gates plus the two ATR gates. They were supposed to be moving the parking for corporate jets to an adjacent area which would give space for an eighth gate. They also need more hard standing areas. The taxiway is quite short.

PA515


Agree, ZQN by all accounts has become quite congested. A parallel taxiway capable of accomodating code C aircraft would be a great addition too. Is there room for one?
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
a7ala
Posts: 213
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:58 am

ZK-NBT wrote:

CHC/ZQN 4 daily or 28 weekly 9 A320’s, 19 ATR’s.
WLG-ZQN 18 weekly 14 A320’s, 4 ATR’s.

More frequency through CHC still.


Actually for the next 12-months ATRs on WLG-ZQN all but gone. Average 18 weekly 17 A320's, 1 ATR = 311,000 seats. CHC-ZQN average 26 weekly 7.5 A320's 18.5 ATs = 262,000 seats. But yes more freq through CHC.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:29 am

PA515 wrote:
They really need to get that underway soon. Was watching ZQN on FR24 yesterday afternoon and several aircraft had to hold prior to the RNP approach and two had to wait on the taxiway for gates.There were some late arrivals conflicting with those on schedule. ZQN has seven 320 / 737 gates plus the two ATR gates. They were supposed to be moving the parking for corporate jets to an adjacent area which would give space for an eighth gate. They also need more hard standing areas. The taxiway is quite short.


Correction. It was Monday afternoon (09 Jul) I was watching ZQN on FR24. VA117 BNE-ZQN (VH-YIM) touched down at 1456 but did not get a gate until 1524.
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-yim

PA515
 
Qantas16
Posts: 620
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:35 am

planemanofnz wrote:
- BNE was the most popular destination for Dunedinites and Cantabrians.


Given BNE is the only international destination served from DUD, that would probably make sense!
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6306
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:54 am

a7ala wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

CHC/ZQN 4 daily or 28 weekly 9 A320’s, 19 ATR’s.
WLG-ZQN 18 weekly 14 A320’s, 4 ATR’s.

More frequency through CHC still.


Actually for the next 12-months ATRs on WLG-ZQN all but gone. Average 18 weekly 17 A320's, 1 ATR = 311,000 seats. CHC-ZQN average 26 weekly 7.5 A320's 18.5 ATs = 262,000 seats. But yes more freq through CHC.


That was checking this week those initial numbers I said.

In September it’s
CHC 28 weekly 21x ATR, 7x A320 375 seats daily
WLG 14 weekly 13x A320, 1x ATR 342 seats daily +-

January is
CHC 20 weekly 7x A320, 13x ATR 307 seats daily +-
WLG 16 weekly 14x A320, 2x ATR 342 seats daily. +-
 
a7ala
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:31 am

ZK-NBT wrote:

That was checking this week those initial numbers I said.

In September it’s
CHC 28 weekly 21x ATR, 7x A320 375 seats daily
WLG 14 weekly 13x A320, 1x ATR 342 seats daily +-

January is
CHC 20 weekly 7x A320, 13x ATR 307 seats daily +-
WLG 16 weekly 14x A320, 2x ATR 342 seats daily. +-


Does that include JQ from WLG? Also your WLG numbers look a little out as 14 pw has same seats as 16 pw?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6306
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:43 am

a7ala wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

That was checking this week those initial numbers I said.

In September it’s
CHC 28 weekly 21x ATR, 7x A320 375 seats daily
WLG 14 weekly 13x A320, 1x ATR 342 seats daily +-

January is
CHC 20 weekly 7x A320, 13x ATR 307 seats daily +-
WLG 16 weekly 14x A320, 2x ATR 342 seats daily. +-


Does that include JQ from WLG? Also your WLG numbers look a little out as 14 pw has same seats as 16 pw?


Not JQ just NZ, I put +- as there is an ATR on Friday and Sunday as an extra service, I didn’t average it out exactly. It’s pretty close in terms of capacity from both WLG and CHC really.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:51 pm

Qantas16 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
- BNE was the most popular destination for Dunedinites and Cantabrians.


Given BNE is the only international destination served from DUD, that would probably make sense!

DUD passengers can still transit through CHC, WLG and AKL to the Pacific Islands (and elsewhere) though. I think that those figures accounted for such transits too, as they took account of regions that don't have international flights (like the West Coast).

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:09 pm

On the topic of pilot training, this is interesting - the New Zealand Airline Academy has chosen Oamaru Airport as its location, with about 20 trainees already scheduled to arrive within the next two weeks. Trainees will likely hail from India, China, and other Asian countries. But, crucially, "domestic students would seek training elsewhere as student loans were unavailable to the academy's trainees." :cry:

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/n ... ng-academy.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:35 pm

ZKNCI wrote:
... especially if Singapore does send down a bunch of fighters for training.

Yeah - I didn't realize that the Singaporeans were actually "in talks with the New Zealand Government about setting up a permanent training base at Ōhakea."

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105405 ... e-to-hakea.

Cheers,

C.
 
Qantas16
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - July 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:39 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
- BNE was the most popular destination for Dunedinites and Cantabrians.


Given BNE is the only international destination served from DUD, that would probably make sense!

DUD passengers can still transit through CHC, WLG and AKL to the Pacific Islands (and elsewhere) though. I think that those figures accounted for such transits too, as they took account of regions that don't have international flights (like the West Coast).

Cheers,

C.


Oh for sure, I get that, but having a nonstop would generate additional demand. If pax have option of going to a destination nonstop or another with a stop over they’re more likely to take the former.
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