Topic Author
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Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 1:10 am

Well it has finally happened. USA today editorial blames security for the slump in passenger traffic. newsletter has the piece. One amusing inaccuracy is that air traffic is slumping. While not back to previous levels it can hardly be a slump if your in a traditionaly slow period of the year. After summer then tell me about slow traffic.

Secondly is the accusation that security has to be done w/ common sense. If the author had common sense he would realize that the toys he would exempt from search would be just the next loophole for terrorist to exploit. The Soviets and Nazis made bombs that look like toys in the Afgan war and WWII. How soon we forget history. If you want security to be tight keep it tight, for everone getting on an airplane. No expemtions for WWII Medal oF Honor winners or grandmas or anyone. NOONE in the US is above or exempt from the law, this is a basic tenet in the US Constitution the law treats EVERYONE as equal. If we exempt someone we violate that basic principle and hamstring the regulations. The more loopholes and exemptions we make the more opportunities we give to terrorists to find the gaps.

Lastly I wonder why this stupid outcry took so long in coming. I was sure that some journalist would have made these idiot comments long ago. Perhaps the American Public is smarter than the American Media after all.

A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.

RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 1:52 am

"I wonder why this stupid outcry took so long in coming"

Yes, me too; and the same great philosophers will be the first to blame the "poor security measures" as soon as the next tragedy occurs (God forbid), explaining that it could have been easily prevented...
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 1:58 am

It's predictable - right after the attacks, everyone said that they would welcome more security, even if it meant delays. Now that there are some delays, and people just can't waltz onto the plane, they are starting to grumble. (Mind you, I have not read the USA Today piece.) It's all about self-interest, and also the fact that we are in a transition period.
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 2:01 am

I think when they measure traffic, they compare with year-over-year figures.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 2:10 am

I agree that there should be no exemptions for anyone, however the treatment of some people and the way that they are conducting the security process is appalling. Here are some of my observations:

(1) The people that work at freight and cargo areas simply have to scan thier badge to enter the premises. They can get to an airplane without ever going though a manned checkpoint and bring whatever they want with them.

(2) Most of the "random" searches are being done to employees that work in the secured area. These same people that do the searches see us day after day. I think they choose the same group of employees to "random" search, because they figure we offer the path of least resistance. Too bad they are not focusing on the people who are actually travelling in an airplane.

(3) I think the treatment of the Medal of Honor winner was unbelievable. How can anyone justify that? If they really want to confiscate sharp edges, then we would not have soda cans, glass bottles, eyeglasses (look at the part that goes near the ear on plastic frames), and a variety of other objects getting through security.

(4) About 2 months ago, I saw the access to one of the DFW ramps wide open with the guard nowhere in sight. There was an aircraft 50 feet from this entrance. We called somebody on it, and they said that they would "look into it". In the meantime, we have concourses being evacuated because someone left something unplugged.

These are just some observations. I think that another incident could be on the way, because it is obvious that we are searching for the problem in the wrong places. Sure, Granny, the veteran, and all of the employees need to go through security, but when is the last time that one of these people hijacked an airplane?

RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 3:39 am

.. I am finding that folx are beginning to view this security "thing" as a fad! What I find MOST GROSSLY APPAULING (this should debut shortly in adverts) is the airlines promising speedier check in for their high level frequent flyers... I won't mention the airline but the sales rep was in our office yesterday and once one does it, they will all follow...

I can fully sympathize with those who are or have been inconvenienced or "picked off" for no apparent reason and in my humble opinion, the whole system is a patchwork of chaos already... Now airlines are going to use speedier security checks as a marketing tool! tisk tisk tisk.. >:-<
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 4:12 am

Better inconvenienced then dead...
Maybe the FBI should arrest everyone who complains about having to pass a checkpoint on terrorism charges...
I wish I were flying
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 4:43 am

Maybe the public is getting wise to the suckurity sham the FAA has perpetrated for years.
It still!!! is plain eye wash.
We are no more suckure today than we were on 9/10.
We should ALL be treated equally. But when a Muslim/Arab person dressed in traditional garb appears they get to bypass the screening process for fear of lawsuit filing backlashes. EYE WASH!
Rampers of unknown ethnic origin get on airport property without so much as a second look.
Flight crews are being stripped down to their skivvies. More EYE WASH!!!
Those most likely to commit a repeat of these heinous crimes must be singled out by whatever means necessary, including ethnic profiling.
Here is a minor historical recap:
1972 Olympics
Iranian hostage situation
Pan Am 103
Beirut Marine barracks
TWA Med. hijacking & bombings
Saddam Hussein
Moammar Khadaffi
Embassy bombings
Shoot-ups in Rome, Vienna & Frankfurt
Achille Lauro
Assasination attempt on Pope JP
WTC 1993
All of these were perpetrated by radical Arab/Muslim extremists.
This just shows those with sympathetic views how short our collective memories are. Any one of these events could and should have been considered an act of war!!
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 9:28 am

Ogseminole - you have only listed Islamic terrorists - these are not the only ones in the world - look at other hijackings over a similar period. All must be equally searched, and anyone searched more should only be done so for BACKGROUND, not RACE or NATIONALITY.
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 9:36 am

I, too, am not happy with security in its current state. I do believe that it should be tight (even tighter than it is now), BUT the way they're going about this-- I mean, it is a true government project.

In any case, if we're not suicidal then we should be employing racial profiling-- it wasn't a white grandmother that hijacked the 767 (oh and I have seen frail white grandmothers, tiny asian women, etc searched at the airport while letting possibly suspicious passengers by).

Some freaks are scaring the security screeners into not searching Arabs as much because if they do (ie the many incidents since 9/11), they are threatened with lawsuits and termination. What idiots. Profile the people. When survival is the issue, I could care less about someone's "feeeeeeelings".
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 10:29 am

How anybody can defend the security practices and the people who work at these checkpoints is incredible. The same people who worked at these security checkpoints on the morning of 9/11 are still there today. Some of them are now federal emplyoyees!

To illustrate the lack of sense amongst these workers let me list a few examples....

A Federal Air Marshall checked into a security checkpoint. Displayed his credentials and was allowed to pass with his pistol. The secuity screeners examined his carryon bag and confiscated his nail clippers.

Plastic eating utensils are routinely confiscated, especially plastic knives. Food service on your flight? The crew will give you the same plastic knife to eat your meal.

Any Barnie Fife, Podunk Township police officer can board a plane with a pistol so long as they check in with security and display their credentials. Air Marshalls go through extensive training for use of their weapons in the close confines of an a/c and have special ammunition that will not penetrate an a/c fuselage. Can the same be said of J.Q. Law Enforcement officer?

Positive bag match as a deterrent? Over 20 men commited suicide by hijacking 4 planes on 9/11. What makes you think that people willing to die for their cause won't just pack a bomb in their bag and check in for their flights and actually board the a/c?

The people of the U.S. were sold a product by their Congress that had great intentions, but elected to use the same people involved in the old, broken system as the means for implementation. Somehow the idea of paying incompetent people more money would lend to a more practical return from the same people was imagined.

The bottom line. The law enforcement agencies that have jurisdiction at commercial airports should be the agencies appointed the task of security at these airports. The local authorities would follow federal guidelines and be paid by airport landing fees and passenger facility charges.

There was an endeavor for the federal government to make aviation security a career path. This is a great approach. The career path should be law enforcement, not graduating from metal detector to bag scanner duty.
Topic Author
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 1:51 pm

You really don't know what your talking about. ONLY FEDERAL AGENTS can carry firearms on board an airplane. Not any "Barnie Fife" as you so called them. I'd like you to call a NYPD officer that. You'll find a whole new meaning for "Nightclubbing" How long Exusair would the air system have to remain shut down if we had fired ALL baggage screener on Sept 12th. And hired and trained all new ones and new FAM's. There were 34 FAM's employeed on Sept 11th. I don't know how many of them where on duty. Your lack of understanding is stunning. Security begins when the customer BUYS the ticket. There are obvious security measures, and ones you don't see.

BTW the UA random security pat down found the guy w/ the boxcutters and stungun that got by the x-ray in ORD. So the system dosen't work? Random is random, That is the security. Average terrorist trying to board is probably already being watched, what happens if he goes to board while random people are being screened. He gets nervous, maybe sweats a bit. Now gate agents and security have something more to go on than a hunch. Security is a sham if you excuse every little thing that YOU think is innocent. When did all of you become trained security professionals. When did the ASS that wrote the USA Today peice become a security proffesional. This guy gets to mouth off his ignorant rate simply because he founded the paper. He threw in a few facts and figures so it looked knowlegeable. If the guy new Jack about security he wouldnt be running a paper. He be a cop or running a security firm.

A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 9:19 pm

How rediculus is it going to get?

1) Strip searches for all passengers
2) All passengers must stay in a "cage" aboard the airplane while handcuffed.
3) DNA samples to get through security
4) Your photo ID glued to your forehead
5) X-ray/MRI-scan all passengers (not the luggage, the PAX)
6) Life sentence for anyone caught with a camera in a terminal. (Death sentence if you actually use it)
7) Minimum one hour long interrogations (while hooked up to lie detectors) by FBI before boarding.
8) Must disclose entire family history (bring a family tree to the airport dating back to Adam and Eve, include DNA samples from all pets living in the household)
9) Must bring detailed floorplans and photographs of your house, explaining in detail where each of your model planes came from, and why you have them.
10) Snipers in secret locations throughout the airport to pick off people who "look" suspicious.
11) No carry-on luggage; in fact, no luggage period.
12) Gas to put passengers unconscious on certain "high risk" flights.
13) Revitialize "Star Wars" program, with a new mission to automatically shoot down any planes that deviate from assigned routing.
14) Cell extraction team from nearest state prison assigned to "assist" in the de-boarding process.
15) Rectal exam at the boarding door, just in case the MRI/X-RAY missed something.
16) No male passengers between the ages of 18 and 30.
17) All flights use callsign "CONAIR"
18) Exacuate the airport if a security worker sneezes (his eyes would close for a brief instant)
19) All passengers must bring ALL of the following forms of identification to check in: driver's license, "trusted traveler" card, medallion frequent flyer card, social security card, kindergarden report card, mother's kindergarden report card, pet's vaccination records, notarized confirmation of existance, your kidney (no, not a x-ray, the actual kidney), bank statement, utility bill, Sams club card, resume, tax return, and proof of auto liability insurance.
20) All passengers must submit to complete searchs of their residence 2 weeks, 72 hours, 24 hours, 12 hours, and 6 hours prior to departure.
21) For every security measure you see, there are at least 5 your don't see.
22) Passengers discussing, or even thinking about, hijackings, knives, guns, pepper spray, or still cameras, will be arrested.

How rediculus will it get?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 9:28 pm

Racial profiling? Before Sept.11th what was the worst terrorist attack on US soil?
Oaklahoma (SP?), true it did not involve aircraft.
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 9:49 pm

If some passengers are fed up with security measures, well, tough! Many are more concerned about exemptions, loopholes and forgetfulness. Cockpit doors being left open while crews are fed and watered; open sale of items such as scissors in duty-free airport outlets; loose interpretations of the "one piece" of carry-on luggage. We are getting to a place somewhere between paranoia and indifference, and the fear should be that somewhere down the track, the commitment to absolute security gets lost. Journos trying to fill a hole in their daily quota of "news" should be the last thing we take notice of in making the hard decisions. And when is someone going to do something about the passengers who get on board early, place their "carryons" in the overhead bins in row 1 or 2, and then go and sit in their assigned seat in row 36 or whatever. Maybe it's just a ploy to try and run to the front unencumbered, grab their bag and get off 3 seconds earlier, but if you carry it on, you should have to park it above your seat. That way, if there's anything unwelcome in the contents, be it drugs or worse, the person involved is closest to the bag, not an entire cabin away. FA's seem to not bother about this.
Bill, TNboy.
"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sat Mar 09, 2002 10:23 pm

One reason to be truly fed up is in the response of several U.S. full-service major airlines to the heightened security system.

In their typical myopic manner, the airlines couldn't wait to get rid of their responsibility for security and hand it over to goverment...only to discover after-the-fact that they were in jeopordy of being unable to maintain their cherished caste system wherein about 10% of their customers (they are as likely to be traveling on rock-bottom fares as "standard" customers) are given all manner of high-cost preferential treatment while the other 90% are shown implicit (occasionally explicit) disregard by the same airlines.

Once these short-sighted airlines saw the consequences of their haste to get rid their security responsibilities -- the horrific thought that all of their customers might actually be treated equally in at least one part of their air travel experience -- the predictable whining and sniveling (at which the U.S. full-service majors excel) began and, apparently, the government caved in and came to the airlines' rescue in protecting one of the very few caste systems in a supposedly egalitarian-minded North America by agreeing to maintain preferential security lines so long as the lanes and equipment are not "underutilized" -- whatever that means. Between airline-speak and government-speak being involved, lots of luck figuring out when the lines set aside for "Mr/Ms Big" are "underutilized" to the point where they can be used by any of the 90% of pax representing the lower castes.
Topic Author
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sun Mar 10, 2002 12:54 am

I happen to know that UA wantewd the federal government to control security so it would be uniform.

1 Carry-on 1 personal bag, on all airlines. Templates to make sure that they could not go through security. WEll guess what. CO still allows 2 carry-ons and Still fights the placement of tempates on xray machines in PHL where they share w/ UA.

Customers who gripe about security still ignore the rules. The first step in security begins w/ the passenger.

Airlines are in a bind, in regards to Frequent flyers. EX:

UA did a study in 2000. They measured the aveage time it took someone to leave their suburban Chicago house and goto a hotel in IND. Door to Door. W/ parking the walk to the ticket counter security, the wait for boarding the flight time, the wait to get OFF the plane baggage claim and taxi ride. It would take the person 45 minlonger to fly that to drive. Door to Door. That was before stepped up security. UA was working on improving tose times to lure more people to short haul flights. Now its no contest, people would rather drive. Don't blame the airlines for looking for faster, yet effective ways of getting you through security.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sun Mar 10, 2002 1:05 am

All of you guys complaining about the security make me sick. You can do 1 of 2 things.....A: Not fly at all. You'd make my life a hell of a lot easier not bitching when I'm wanding one of you whiners down at the gate. Driving to whereever you have to go, you don't have to give up control of the situation. You're in control of your own destiny. B: Find a solution. I've read everyone's complaints, but did I see any suggestions? No I didn't.

I do feel that some of the security mesures are a little rediculous....but I have to deal with it.

If you want to fly, you're gonna have to deal with it....if you don't want to take it up the tailpipe.....then DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sun Mar 10, 2002 1:05 am

Permit me to express a typical opinion from a frequent traveler. I don't mind the security, but travel times are getting so long that what used to be a 2 day business trip now takes 3 days -- due to long waits at some airports, flights being delayed because of security breaches, etc. If I travel twice a month, this means losing 2 working days out of 20, or 10%. This translates to reduced productivity, which will ultimately be reflected in reduced economic growth.

That's why I see nothing wrong with frequent flyers getting priority, because any time saved on a trip multiplies over the course of a year. People who travel less can wait more on a single trip, since their wasted time will not amount to much over the course of a year. Plus, frequent flyers have proven that we are not a risk. I have been a card-carrying frequent flyer for 20 years, and have never caused a problem, and never will.

The solution is to implement more effective profiling so that the scarce security resources available can be used to screen those that pose the greatest risk, not just anyone at random. This will ultimately improve security while streamlining traffic flow.

So what happens if this situation continues as it is now, or even gets worse? People in my postion will fly less, by combining multiple trips into fewer trips, and using videoconferencing more and more.


"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sun Mar 10, 2002 3:43 am

Prior to Sept.11, airline security was a very low priority.

Post Sept.11, security is of the highest priority.

Right now IMO the security situation is a "work in progress" whose difficulty is compounded by the urgency of the present terrorist threat.

Though passenger inconvenience is a major headache right now, I believe it will slowly resolve itself over time as better people and methods are implemented. This will take time to work out as this learning curve is in its infancy.

During this transition period between ineffective security and effective security, common sense tells me this interim period security will err full scale to caution. As experience, procedures and intellegence improves, the lines will shorten.

The government/airlines now have a huge security transformation to implement. If it gets sidetracked by special interests or complaints about long waits, it will be an opportunity lost.

The one thing the airlines and country can ill afford even more than angry passengers is another 9/11.

Lets be patient and stick together.
You're only as good as your last departure.
Topic Author
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sun Mar 10, 2002 11:32 am

I have to agree w/ FDXmech all the measures up to this point have been stop gap. I do belive that the lines will eventually thin out. Europe dosen't have these lines. However, Passengers have to get over the fact that random searches must be done. Profiling is not the answer. As I said in previous posts making a bad guy unsure that he is the next to get screened is effective. In ORD a guy was found w/ boxcutters and a stun gun w/ the random checks. The random searches are only one ring in a whole plan of security a bad guy may breach one but not all of them.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
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RE: Passengers Fed Up With Security

Sun Mar 10, 2002 11:42 am

My pops just got back from Orlando and he said the guy screening his itinerary in MCO couldn't even read/speak english. Pops had to point everything out to him. Also, what is the point of searching everyone with a one-way ticket. People aren't stupid: if they search everyone with a one-way ticket and you wanna do something, ya buy a roundtrip ticket. God bless government beuracracy (sp?)

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