User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6033
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:59 am

strfyr51 wrote:
I personally do not think United would take the A330's as I don't think they want the A350's. And I say this not because of the airframe, but because of the Rolls Engines installed on them. Even if they got the airplane? There would be mismatched engines all over the place unless the airplanes could be ordered with the Big Pratt and Whitney PW4000 series engines on them (which I doubt) We could support ANY engine in our shops so it is NOT beyond reason that we would take the A350 or A330 with the Rolls engines installed.

United would order a large enough fleet to where they can achieve economies of scale for any engine.
You know all is right is the world when the only thing people worry about is if the president had sex with a pornstar.


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 25662
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:17 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
I personally do not think United would take the A330's as I don't think they want the A350's. And I say this not because of the airframe, but because of the Rolls Engines installed on them.


Does UA do their GE engine maintenance in house or do they have OnePoint maintenance contracts?


FlightLevel360 wrote:
The majority of the 752/3 fleet has Rolls-Royce RB-211 engines. I do not see a problem with United maintaining any of them.


This assumes RR will let them maintain their own Trents. That was a major sticking point with Air France on them confirming their A350 / Trent XWB order. Delta TechOps handles maintenance for DL's Trent XWB and Trent 7000 fleet and they are also an Approved Maintenance Center for other operators of the type.


TWA772LR wrote:
If they really wanted to, which they won't, they could go for the 778.


The 777-8 has far too much range for any route in UA's network.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15970
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:07 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
I personally do not think United would take the A330's as I don't think they want the A350's. And I say this not because of the airframe, but because of the Rolls Engines installed on them.


Since there’s no alternative to Rollers on the A350, one would have to assume UA knew this when they ordered them. Three times!

Posters here who know about these things have been saying that both OEMs have been tightening their contracts with respect to deferments and model hopping. UA has had multiple opportunities to cancel the A350, but they keep adding more!

Are they really making things harder and harder for themselves? I doubt they’re that stupid.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:30 pm

scbriml wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I personally do not think United would take the A330's as I don't think they want the A350's. And I say this not because of the airframe, but because of the Rolls Engines installed on them.


Since there’s no alternative to Rollers on the A350, one would have to assume UA knew this when they ordered them. Three times!

Posters here who know about these things have been saying that both OEMs have been tightening their contracts with respect to deferments and model hopping. UA has had multiple opportunities to cancel the A350, but they keep adding more!

Are they really making things harder and harder for themselves? I doubt they’re that stupid.
I am not sure they have had multiple opportunities to cancel the A350. I think they have added more because that is the price Airbus made them pay to make the changes to the order UA wanted to make. How that translates into UA wanting to cancel the A350, I have no idea.

Anyway, since this topic is supposedly about A321LR/A330NEO, I will say I don't see how the A330NEO would make any sense for UA. The A321LR could be interesting, but I am not sure if UA needs enough to make a subfleet economical.
 
Pepper456
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:30 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:44 pm

A321LR would fit perfectly in the current daily service EWR-OPO.
TP will do the same thing when will receive their fleet.
 
NZ321
Posts: 913
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:28 pm

I think quite a lot is being made of the RR engine question. For a fleet the size of united's planned A350 fleet I can't see that this is a make or break. Airlines the world over offer mixed fleets and even the same type with different engines. If the deal is right and the performance of the aircraft meets specs then I can't see that this is a show-stopper for the 350 or, for that matter, for the Neo.
Plane mad!
 
United1
Posts: 3585
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:55 pm

NZ321 wrote:
I think quite a lot is being made of the RR engine question. For a fleet the size of united's planned A350 fleet I can't see that this is a make or break. Airlines the world over offer mixed fleets and even the same type with different engines. If the deal is right and the performance of the aircraft meets specs then I can't see that this is a show-stopper for the 350 or, for that matter, for the Neo.


The engines on the A350 are a non issue from a maintenance standpoint. UA opted for TotalCare when they initially ordered the A350 and re-upped when they increased their order from 35 to 45 jets.

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/our-s ... lines.aspx

I'm not sure why people are so uncertain of UA taking the A359s. After UA decided to replace the 744 fleet with 77Ws instead of 35Js delaying the 359s made sense as UAs 77E fleet wasn't in need of immediate replacement. The oldest 77E was built in 1997 so it has 5-10 years of life left in it.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 580
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:21 pm

For me, the question is one of current day reality over future promises. Is the A321 that much better than what the B797 will bring to the table taking into account the missions UAL would be using them for? I suspect that both manufacturers will make purchasing them very easy and cheap in an attempt to garner sales, each trying to shut the other out of that market segment, so performance and range instead of acquisition costs are very likely to be the ultimate deciding factors, what the A321 can do now and in the very near future, versus what the B797 can supposedly achieve several more years down the line.

Whatever happens, its going to be interesting!
 
flyguy84
Topic Author
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:40 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
For me, the question is one of current day reality over future promises. Is the A321 that much better than what the B797 will bring to the table taking into account the missions UAL would be using them for? I suspect that both manufacturers will make purchasing them very easy and cheap in an attempt to garner sales, each trying to shut the other out of that market segment, so performance and range instead of acquisition costs are very likely to be the ultimate deciding factors, what the A321 can do now and in the very near future, versus what the B797 can supposedly achieve several more years down the line.

Whatever happens, its going to be interesting!

The real question is can United wait until 2025 at the earliest to replace the 757 fleet. The answer is no.
SFO
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 580
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:55 am

If they become the launch customer and are given very favorable terms, then they may be able to. They can acquire 767s on the used market in a worst case scenario or stretch out their existing fleet a little bit further, and it wouldn't surprise me if they bought or leased more 787s to bridge the gap. United has seemed very favorable towards the 797 in briefings with Boeing, so its likely the plane that they want. If Boeing gives them the terms that they want, they may very well be willing to wait. I think we'll know the truth at Farnborough. If Boeing loses United to Airbus, it will really rankle the folks in Everett, losing a staunch traditionally Boeing customer.
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:49 am

Not sure why UA needs a 100% perfect 757 replacement. Also can't see them taking the A330 unless Airbus gets some super below market export financing to back it. 787 is just way too attractive to the bankers loaning the money right now, and UA has it in the fleet so no holdup there.
 
Geoff1947
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:05 am

flyguy84 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
For me, the question is one of current day reality over future promises. Is the A321 that much better than what the B797 will bring to the table taking into account the missions UAL would be using them for? I suspect that both manufacturers will make purchasing them very easy and cheap in an attempt to garner sales, each trying to shut the other out of that market segment, so performance and range instead of acquisition costs are very likely to be the ultimate deciding factors, what the A321 can do now and in the very near future, versus what the B797 can supposedly achieve several more years down the line.

Whatever happens, its going to be interesting!

The real question is can United wait until 2025 at the earliest to replace the 757 fleet. The answer is no.


Boeing can offer the 787-8 as a short-term bridge as they did with American.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 25662
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:37 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
The real question is can United wait until 2025 at the earliest to replace the 757 fleet. The answer is no.


Why? Are the airframes closing in on their hours/cycles fatigue limits?
 
flyguy84
Topic Author
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:15 pm

Stitch wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
The real question is can United wait until 2025 at the earliest to replace the 757 fleet. The answer is no.


Why? Are the airframes closing in on their hours/cycles fatigue limits?

They’re hangar queens. The reliability of the 757 and 767 fleet is not good. The 753 fleet is especially bad.
SFO
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:29 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
For me, the question is one of current day reality over future promises. Is the A321 that much better than what the B797 will bring to the table taking into account the missions UAL would be using them for? I suspect that both manufacturers will make purchasing them very easy and cheap in an attempt to garner sales, each trying to shut the other out of that market segment, so performance and range instead of acquisition costs are very likely to be the ultimate deciding factors, what the A321 can do now and in the very near future, versus what the B797 can supposedly achieve several more years down the line.

Whatever happens, its going to be interesting!

The real question is can United wait until 2025 at the earliest to replace the 757 fleet. The answer is no.


That's what they're doing with the A320's. Excluding the ps 752's - the fleets are about the same age. Then again, Boeing gave up after '98 on those two models (hence the poor reliability of the 753's).
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 15456
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:38 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
The real question is can United wait until 2025 at the earliest to replace the 757 fleet. The answer is no.


Why? Are the airframes closing in on their hours/cycles fatigue limits?

They’re hangar queens. The reliability of the 757 and 767 fleet is not good. The 753 fleet is especially bad.

757s are having to go into lower utilization duty from everything I'm hearing. A great airframe when new. They age less gracefully than the 737NG as the NG was improved much more to help it.

Both have subsystems that are great for 7 years, a little more troublesome until 14 years, and then a pain. The subsystems lack any chips to help diagnose upcoming issue (R&R prior to a missed flight). This means more backup aircraft. That is cheap (due to the fact the aircraft are paid off), but as oil rises, it is time to replace.

By -10MAX or A321NEO for domestic/Hawaii. Perhaps the A321LR for TATL?
Some can make it to 2025, but there is a reason UA wanted new build 767s as a stop gap (but at a price/delivery pace that Boeing couldn't meet).

Lightsaber

Ps,
This is an old link comparing the 757 to *proposed* aircraft. Please note fuel is at only $1.60 per gallon in that study (versus today's ~$2.15).
https://www.iata.org/publications/econo ... index.aspx
But the basics are correct. The 757 is a dog for maintenance and fuel burn.
http://www.aircraft-commerce.com/sample ... sample.pdf

When I recalculate based on expected NEO/MAX maintenance, today's fuel price, and today's lease/finance costs.
I arrive at -10MAX at 95% of the cost per passenger of the 757, but that gap is growing due to bad 757 aging.
A321 at 95.5% of the cost per passenger of the 757. The higher cost per passenger entirely driven by the fact the A321 is selling for more than the -10MAX. Range has a value...

Higher utilization of an A321neo or max increases the cost advantage due to very low variable costs.
The best examle is JetBlue plans to use the A220s 12 hours+ per day because they have such low variable costs! :faint:
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:49 pm

lightsaber wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
Stitch wrote:

Why? Are the airframes closing in on their hours/cycles fatigue limits?

They’re hangar queens. The reliability of the 757 and 767 fleet is not good. The 753 fleet is especially bad.

757s are having to go into lower utilization duty from everything I'm hearing. A great airframe when new. They age less gracefully than the 737NG as the NG was improved much more to help it.

Both have subsystems that are great for 7 years, a little more troublesome until 14 years, and then a pain. The subsystems lack any chips to help diagnose upcoming issue (R&R prior to a missed flight). This means more backup aircraft. That is cheap (due to the fact the aircraft are paid off), but as oil rises, it is time to replace.

By -10MAX or A321NEO for domestic/Hawaii. Perhaps the A321LR for TATL?
Some can make it to 2025, but there is a reason UA wanted new build 767s as a stop gap (but at a price/delivery pace that Boeing couldn't meet).

Lightsaber


Sounds like a design flaw.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:23 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
They’re hangar queens. The reliability of the 757 and 767 fleet is not good. The 753 fleet is especially bad.

757s are having to go into lower utilization duty from everything I'm hearing. A great airframe when new. They age less gracefully than the 737NG as the NG was improved much more to help it.

Both have subsystems that are great for 7 years, a little more troublesome until 14 years, and then a pain. The subsystems lack any chips to help diagnose upcoming issue (R&R prior to a missed flight). This means more backup aircraft. That is cheap (due to the fact the aircraft are paid off), but as oil rises, it is time to replace.

By -10MAX or A321NEO for domestic/Hawaii. Perhaps the A321LR for TATL?
Some can make it to 2025, but there is a reason UA wanted new build 767s as a stop gap (but at a price/delivery pace that Boeing couldn't meet).

Lightsaber


Sounds like a design flaw.


It sounds like an old design. That means it takes more time to diagnose the problem and hope there is a spare part(s) to R&R to avoid an aircraft swap or cancellation. Add some more hope that the problem crops up at a UA hub rather than an outstation which may or may not have the mechanics and parts needed.

The 757 is/was an awesome performer. The 767 is a customer favorite with 7 across at the back. However, they are not fuel efficient compared to newer designs PLUS cost more to maintain. The math over the next ten years alone should pencil out in favor of replacing.

It's now to see what will be the replacement(s). Boeing finally seems to have its costs/accounting on the 787 program under control so can be more aggressive on pricing. I doubt UA is going to count on the NMA coming online anytime before 2025 or so. The 788 can fit the bill for 767 replacement, even more so with paper derates though that will reduce fleet flexibility. The Max 10's can do most of the 757 missions and passengers will put up with the differences in seat width etc with good fares.
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:34 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
757s are having to go into lower utilization duty from everything I'm hearing. A great airframe when new. They age less gracefully than the 737NG as the NG was improved much more to help it.

Both have subsystems that are great for 7 years, a little more troublesome until 14 years, and then a pain. The subsystems lack any chips to help diagnose upcoming issue (R&R prior to a missed flight). This means more backup aircraft. That is cheap (due to the fact the aircraft are paid off), but as oil rises, it is time to replace.

By -10MAX or A321NEO for domestic/Hawaii. Perhaps the A321LR for TATL?
Some can make it to 2025, but there is a reason UA wanted new build 767s as a stop gap (but at a price/delivery pace that Boeing couldn't meet).

Lightsaber


Sounds like a design flaw.


It sounds like an old design. That means it takes more time to diagnose the problem and hope there is a spare part(s) to R&R to avoid an aircraft swap or cancellation. Add some more hope that the problem crops up at a UA hub rather than an outstation which may or may not have the mechanics and parts needed.

The 757 is/was an awesome performer. The 767 is a customer favorite with 7 across at the back. However, they are not fuel efficient compared to newer designs PLUS cost more to maintain. The math over the next ten years alone should pencil out in favor of replacing.

It's now to see what will be the replacement(s). Boeing finally seems to have its costs/accounting on the 787 program under control so can be more aggressive on pricing. I doubt UA is going to count on the NMA coming online anytime before 2025 or so. The 788 can fit the bill for 767 replacement, even more so with paper derates though that will reduce fleet flexibility. The Max 10's can do most of the 757 missions and passengers will put up with the differences in seat width etc with good fares.


Yeah - it's crazy how Airbus perfected BITE just 5 years later on the A320. :rotfl:

Sadly - there will never be an innovative decade like the real 80's ever again (1980-1988.5) :frown:
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
727200
Posts: 578
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:12 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the warranty on new planes a 5-year contract? That fits then with maintenance being minimal over the first 7 years, then increasing proportionally as the years add up.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6033
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:45 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
The real question is can United wait until 2025 at the earliest to replace the 757 fleet. The answer is no.


Why? Are the airframes closing in on their hours/cycles fatigue limits?

They’re hangar queens. The reliability of the 757 and 767 fleet is not good. The 753 fleet is especially bad.

I work in DEN and have a good view of the UA hangar here. I've never seen a 757 or 767 get towed over there or be parked there.
You know all is right is the world when the only thing people worry about is if the president had sex with a pornstar.


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 1976
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:13 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
Stitch wrote:

Why? Are the airframes closing in on their hours/cycles fatigue limits?

They’re hangar queens. The reliability of the 757 and 767 fleet is not good. The 753 fleet is especially bad.

I work in DEN and have a good view of the UA hangar here. I've never seen a 757 or 767 get towed over there or be parked there.


How many mechanical problems literally require a plane to be towed to a hangar for repair?
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 11658
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:17 pm

A330 unlikely, they have a large 787 fleet. A321 likely, all their competitors ordered it, little competition. Obvious.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 15456
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:10 am

SonomaFlyer wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
757s are having to go into lower utilization duty from everything I'm hearing. A great airframe when new. They age less gracefully than the 737NG as the NG was improved much more to help it.

Both have subsystems that are great for 7 years, a little more troublesome until 14 years, and then a pain. The subsystems lack any chips to help diagnose upcoming issue (R&R prior to a missed flight). This means more backup aircraft. That is cheap (due to the fact the aircraft are paid off), but as oil rises, it is time to replace.

By -10MAX or A321NEO for domestic/Hawaii. Perhaps the A321LR for TATL?
Some can make it to 2025, but there is a reason UA wanted new build 767s as a stop gap (but at a price/delivery pace that Boeing couldn't meet).

Lightsaber


Sounds like a design flaw.


It sounds like an old design. That means it takes more time to diagnose the problem and hope there is a spare part(s) to R&R to avoid an aircraft swap or cancellation. Add some more hope that the problem crops up at a UA hub rather than an outstation which may or may not have the mechanics and parts needed.

The 757 is/was an awesome performer. The 767 is a customer favorite with 7 across at the back. However, they are not fuel efficient compared to newer designs PLUS cost more to maintain. The math over the next ten years alone should pencil out in favor of replacing.

It's now to see what will be the replacement(s). Boeing finally seems to have its costs/accounting on the 787 program under control so can be more aggressive on pricing. I doubt UA is going to count on the NMA coming online anytime before 2025 or so. The 788 can fit the bill for 767 replacement, even more so with paper derates though that will reduce fleet flexibility. The Max 10's can do most of the 757 missions and passengers will put up with the differences in seat width etc with good fares.


Both are great designs, they are just old designs.
The MAX 10s and A321s will cost less to fly. Much less due to fuel burn and maintenance.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6033
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:23 am

hOMSaR wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
They’re hangar queens. The reliability of the 757 and 767 fleet is not good. The 753 fleet is especially bad.

I work in DEN and have a good view of the UA hangar here. I've never seen a 757 or 767 get towed over there or be parked there.


How many mechanical problems literally require a plane to be towed to a hangar for repair?

"Hangar queen" implies they are always in the hangar.
You know all is right is the world when the only thing people worry about is if the president had sex with a pornstar.


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:04 am

lightsaber wrote:
SonomaFlyer wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:

Sounds like a design flaw.


It sounds like an old design. That means it takes more time to diagnose the problem and hope there is a spare part(s) to R&R to avoid an aircraft swap or cancellation. Add some more hope that the problem crops up at a UA hub rather than an outstation which may or may not have the mechanics and parts needed.

The 757 is/was an awesome performer. The 767 is a customer favorite with 7 across at the back. However, they are not fuel efficient compared to newer designs PLUS cost more to maintain. The math over the next ten years alone should pencil out in favor of replacing.

It's now to see what will be the replacement(s). Boeing finally seems to have its costs/accounting on the 787 program under control so can be more aggressive on pricing. I doubt UA is going to count on the NMA coming online anytime before 2025 or so. The 788 can fit the bill for 767 replacement, even more so with paper derates though that will reduce fleet flexibility. The Max 10's can do most of the 757 missions and passengers will put up with the differences in seat width etc with good fares.


Both are great designs, they are just old designs.
The MAX 10s and A321s will cost less to fly. Much less due to fuel burn and maintenance.

Lightsaber


And it also proves that NB technology died in November of 1988 - as the A321 still uses the same systems and wings certified that month :fight:
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
ericm2031
Posts: 893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Airbus and United continue talks on 321LR/330

Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:28 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
Stitch wrote:

Why? Are the airframes closing in on their hours/cycles fatigue limits?

They’re hangar queens. The reliability of the 757 and 767 fleet is not good. The 753 fleet is especially bad.

I work in DEN and have a good view of the UA hangar here. I've never seen a 757 or 767 get towed over there or be parked there.


Well looking at today there is only 1 767 that even comes through DEN so it would be rare to see one there.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos