ILOVEA340
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

PanAm In Europe!

Sun Mar 10, 2002 4:36 pm

Can someone please exPLANE to me the extent of the PanAm fleet and routes operated in europe before its demise.
 
Cody
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RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:00 am

Not sure what you mean by extent of fleet. In the 80's and early 90's, they operated 747-100's/200's, 737-200's, A300's, A310's, and 727-200's. The European network varied over time. For the most part, the routes concentrated on JFK-LHR/FRA/CDG/and just about every major European city. LHR was also served from MIA/DTW/LAX/SFO/SEA. Besides the nonstops from the US, Pan Am operated many flights within Europe using 737's and 727's. This included a full scale Frankfurt hub as well as the German IGS routes from Berlin to Hamburg and Munich. The European routes were extensive to say the least.
 
N202PA
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RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 4:19 am

Pan Am also operated PA Express out of Berlin to mostly German cities in the 1980s (the IGS routes, which were initially run in the 60s with 727-100s and later 737s) using ATR-42s.

Among the cities served in Europe by PA in 1991: London Heathrow, Dublin, Shannon, Madrid, Lisbon, Barcelona, Nice, Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, Hamburg, Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki, Copenhagen, Warsaw, Moscow, St. Petersburg, Athens, Istanbul, Rome, Vienna, Milan, Frankfurt, Munich, Stuttgart, and Zurich. Flights also went from Europe (PA's Frankfurt hub) to New Delhi, Bombay, Karachi, Nairobi, and Riyadhi. There was also a flights from Paris to Tel Aviv.

Nonstops were to JFK, IAD, DTW, LAX, SFO, SEA, and MIA, using 747s and A310s.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 4:27 am

PanAm's Internal German Service was a legacy of the Cold War. Lufthansa was not permitted to fly into Berlin after the War and service was instead provided by PanAm and BEA. From Berlin PanAm flew along narrow air corridors through East German airspace to Hamburg, Frankfurt, Munich, Stuttgart and Nuremburg. PanAm later built a major hub in Frankfurt (sold to Delta in 1989). The fall of PanAm pretty much coincided with the fall of the Berlin Wall (hmmmmm?).
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 4:33 am

As far as the fleet for the IGS, DC-4s and DC-6s (and maybe Convair 240s) were replaced by 727-100s in the sixties. These, in turn, were replaced by 727-200s and 737-200s in the seventies and eighties. A310s were put on the IGS in the eighties.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
skyhawk
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RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 4:53 am

Gr8SlvrFlt-If I am not mistaken, the Berlin wall came down in 1986(I think), none the less I was in Hamburg on a 72 hr. layover and tried to get to Berlin to retrieve a piece of the wall for my son. Unfortunately, it didn't work as the planes were completely full. If I am correct then the demise of PanAm and the tumbling of the wall was a full 5 years apart.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:04 am

The Berlin Wall came down in December 1989 and January 1990. PanAm sold the Pacific routes to United in 1985. In 1991 the Berlin routes were sold to Lufthansa and the remaining European routes and Northeast Shuttle to Delta. PanAm ceased all operations in December of that year.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
Guest

RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:06 am

A quick search on the internet revealed that wall "fell" on November 9, 1989.

A snapshot of Internal German Services on January 1, 1976 was:

Breman - British
Cologne - British, Air France
Dusseldorf - British, Air France
Frankfurt - Pan American
Hamburg - Pan American
Hanover - British
Munich - Pan American
Nuremberg - Pan American
Stuttgart - Pan American, British
 
skyhawk
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RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:15 am

Gr8SlvrFlt-You don't have to remind me about the day PanAm went out of business. I was scheduled to fly to Rio that night. On December 3, 1991 at 6:00A.M. Eastern time, my life was forever changed. Our family income was cut in more than half, actually compared to some, I was probably quite lucky, yet at the time it didn't seem so. For almost 21 years I had been a Flight Attendant, but no more. Yes I made a mistake on the year about the wall, but don't dare to question me on the day Pan Am ceased to exist.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:23 am

Skyhawk, please don't take any offense. There are many others reading these posts who might not know about the exact dates. I can really identify with you as I was on a layover in Toronto on January 18th, 1991 when I saw on CNN that Eastern Airlines, my employer for almost nine years, had shut down. Like the employees at Pan Am, we at Eastern had been hearing gloom and doom for so long we didn't think it would actually happen. I stayed out of the business for ten years but I'm flying again, with AirTran. Its great to be back; I love it! Best wishes to you and your family.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
skyhawk
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 12:23 pm

RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 9:29 am

Gr8SlvrFlt-Thanks for the reply, sorry even after all this time(10 yrs.3 mths,7days and 13 hrs.) it still irritates me that not only did we go out of business, but why. And believe me I only blame the likes of Sewell and Acker for getting us into the whole mess. I also must admit that I am a bit jealous of you in that you are still in the business that I loved so much. God bless you and yours!
 
gr8slvrflt
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:53 pm

RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 9:40 am

Shall we talk about Frank Lorenzo?
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
skyhawk
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 12:23 pm

RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 9:42 am

Do we have to, I just ate dinner! Seriously, my husband I still have some of the red ribbons with Lorenzo's name in a circle with the diagonal line through it. He, like Acker, hurt more than one airline. May he rest in a place that befits him.
 
CroFlight
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2001 11:33 pm

RE: PanAm In Europe!

Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:36 pm

Among the other cities, ZAG also had PanAm's non-stop flight to JFK in 1991, with A310.
Before that flight was introduced, ZAG was connected with FRA (FRA-ZAG-OTP), with PA's 727-200's.

When the catastrophic end of PanAm was clearly visible in summer 1991, ZAG-JFK flight had something like "daily schedule change", and when we came to work in the morning, we actually didn't know where the flight goes... Sometimes it went to Dubrovnik, sometimes to Frankfurt, Zurich, Paris CDG... A big mess...

From 1st of September 1991 non-stop ZAG-JFK was cancelled, and ZAG-FRA 727-200 was introduced again. That flight actually never started, because of the war situaion in Croatia.

The last PanAm's flight from Zagreb was on Aug 30th 1991, A310 "Clipper Midnight Sun", ZAG-CDG-JFK, with 18 (!) pax on board...

Sorry for my nostalgic post. I still miss the blue globe...
 Sad
 
skyhawk
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 12:23 pm

RE: PanAm In Europe!

Tue Mar 12, 2002 6:40 am

CroFlight-Hi, I realize you don't know me personally, but just wanted to say hi. I used to fly for PanAm and went to Zagreb and Dubrovek quite often. Hope things are going OK for you.
 
ILOVEA340
Topic Author
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: PanAm In Europe!

Tue Mar 12, 2002 9:29 am

Thanks all for the info,
Hey I am very interested in your old PanAm stories...
Got any more you would like to share?