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AVENSAB727
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United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:46 pm

I know that IAH-SYD was started up back in January, However, I have a question on how the flight is performing. I have been checking the loads on the flight regularly and the loads have been variable from light to heavy. But there has been questions about the flight's sustainability on other forums. I know they adjusted the flight to less than daily during the Australian winter, and it will go back to daily in October. But how is the flight performing profitable to this point?
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LAXintl
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:49 pm

I would say with rising fuel cost, uneven loads, and reduced frequency for several months would point to not doing well.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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janders
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:57 pm

Doubt a ULH route, especially to a market that is largely geared toward tourism such as Australia ever be profitable.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
jumbojet
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:04 pm

loads are terrible, also with a business class product that still doesnt quite stack up to the competition. If your connecting to SYD somewhere in the lower 48 and want to fly business class, why would someone choose an inferior product?
 
kiowa
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:35 pm

jumbojet wrote:
loads are terrible, also with a business class product that still doesnt quite stack up to the competition. If your connecting to SYD somewhere in the lower 48 and want to fly business class, why would someone choose an inferior product?


I would certainly choose United over the inferior product at Delta. but, everyone has an opinion.
 
N649DL
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:45 pm

It's an interesting route. It was one launched by Smisek and his cronies and was subsequently cut and then surprisingly brought back with Kirby in-charge.

Many ULH routes sway between good and bad load factors but cargo and how the fares are structured is the key. I personally don't see this route sticking around as there was hesitation of the initial launch of the route at first.
 
jetero
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:48 pm

N649DL wrote:
It's an interesting route. It was one launched by Smisek and his cronies and was subsequently cut and then surprisingly brought back with Kirby in-charge.

Many ULH routes sway between good and bad load factors but cargo and how the fares are structured is the key. I personally don't see this route sticking around as there was hesitation of the initial launch of the route at first.


Um, no. You must be thinking of AKL.
 
doug_or
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:48 pm

Is cargo really that important on an ULH route? Most cargo doesn't mind connecting.
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N649DL
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:25 pm

jetero wrote:
N649DL wrote:
It's an interesting route. It was one launched by Smisek and his cronies and was subsequently cut and then surprisingly brought back with Kirby in-charge.

Many ULH routes sway between good and bad load factors but cargo and how the fares are structured is the key. I personally don't see this route sticking around as there was hesitation of the initial launch of the route at first.


Um, no. You must be thinking of AKL.


No need for the attitude there pal. Was it AKL?
 
jetero
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:28 pm

N649DL wrote:
jetero wrote:
N649DL wrote:
It's an interesting route. It was one launched by Smisek and his cronies and was subsequently cut and then surprisingly brought back with Kirby in-charge.

Many ULH routes sway between good and bad load factors but cargo and how the fares are structured is the key. I personally don't see this route sticking around as there was hesitation of the initial launch of the route at first.


Um, no. You must be thinking of AKL.


No need for the attitude there pal. Was it AKL?


UA announced AKL post merger and canceled it before it started, attributing it to the City approving an international terminal for HOU.

The whole premise of your post—presented as very certain—was false.
 
questions
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:29 pm

kiowa wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
loads are terrible, also with a business class product that still doesnt quite stack up to the competition. If your connecting to SYD somewhere in the lower 48 and want to fly business class, why would someone choose an inferior product?


I would certainly choose United over the inferior product at Delta. but, everyone has an opinion.


I wonder how DL has prioritized the mods for its 777 fleet. When the 77L with new cabins is placed on LAX-SYD it will be a nice product in Delta One, Premium Select and main cabin (at 3-3-3).

For product + service I’d fly VA, NZ or QF.
 
superjeff
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:52 pm

There is no reason the flight can't work out of IAH. Qantas is running a very successful A380 daily out of DFW and has for a couple of years. And that is without a JV with its OneWorld Partner American. United has a major hub at IAH and it could serve the same way as DFW does for AA/QF.

Also, AKL - IAH - AKL seems to be doing pretty well for NZ, with 77W equipment. Houston is the fifth largest city in the U.S. and a good business center, as well as a good connecting point to many cities on the East Coast. I do agree with several above, though, that UA's Polaris Business class seems a bit underwhelming compared to Qantas via DFW. And I think the QF/AA connection over DFW is the real competition here.
 
N649DL
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:55 pm

jetero wrote:
N649DL wrote:
jetero wrote:

Um, no. You must be thinking of AKL.


No need for the attitude there pal. Was it AKL?


UA announced AKL post merger and canceled it before it started, attributing it to the City approving an international terminal for HOU.

The whole premise of your post—presented as very certain—was false.


Honest mistake, who cares? As they say, don't feed the trolls...

But you're technically incorrect as the "premise of my post" was to say I'm not sure if this ULH route is going to stick around for a while. Almost in the same way why IAH-CDG no longer exists.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:03 pm

UA really needs a codeshare partner in Australia for this to work. Id be amazed if IAH-SYD wasn't a giant flop outside the Northern Winter.
Next flight: IAH-UIO-IAH on UA in Y
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:04 pm

jumbojet wrote:
loads are terrible, also with a business class product that still doesnt quite stack up to the competition. If your connecting to SYD somewhere in the lower 48 and want to fly business class, why would someone choose an inferior product?


How would you know what the loads are like? Even more so, how would you know what the YIELD is? Yield is what matters, not loads. Also consider that it's been the Australian winter where loads are normally lighter. The market has been stimulated and the upcoming summer season will tell the true tale. Oh and with respect to loads, UA purposely blocked off seats initially, and then incrementally reduced the seat block, in order to determine to optimal fuel and payload numbers for such a long stage of flight.

Fanboys/girls can be the worst at times. Can we please get back to objectivity on this board?
 
N649DL
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:10 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
loads are terrible, also with a business class product that still doesnt quite stack up to the competition. If your connecting to SYD somewhere in the lower 48 and want to fly business class, why would someone choose an inferior product?


How would you know what the loads are like? Even more so, how would you know what the YIELD is? Yield is what matters, not loads. Also consider that it's been the Australian winter where loads are normally lighter. The market has been stimulated and the upcoming summer season will tell the true tale. Oh and with respect to loads, UA purposely blocked off seats initially, and then incrementally reduced the seat block, in order to determine to optimal fuel and payload numbers for such a long stage of flight.

Fanboys/girls can be the worst at times. Can we please get back to objectivity on this board?


Maybe embellished a little bit, but perhaps he meant (or can be inferred) how AA and DL have Premium Economy with enhanced meals and amenities to Australia versus United which is just a seat in a Premium Economy cabin at the moment with standard Y class meals. That's not to say it's not coming, but it's either pay for Polaris or be stuck in Y for a very long flight.

For those wondering, I just checked Flyertalk and they have an active thread on this same topic being discussed.
Last edited by N649DL on Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LH658
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:14 pm

I know tons of energy operations in Australia, BHP has a hq in Melbourne or Sydney i think, and Houston also serves as another BHP HQ. I flew NZ IAH to AKL was full, both ways. I find NZ Business class seats odd, I rather take UA direct to SYD in a 2-2-2 configuration.
 
smi0006
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:16 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA really needs a codeshare partner in Australia for this to work. Id be amazed if IAH-SYD wasn't a giant flop outside the Northern Winter.


Agreed! NZ make IAH work as they have their own feed from 8 Aussie ports!!

I do think though that resources traffic could support this route. Whilst not a direct codeshare I’m sure UA interline with both QF and VA to QLD and WA and may capture resource traffic.
 
LH658
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:17 pm

NZ seems to partner with VA, I guess it would be better to partner with VA as well.
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:23 pm

N649DL wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
loads are terrible, also with a business class product that still doesnt quite stack up to the competition. If your connecting to SYD somewhere in the lower 48 and want to fly business class, why would someone choose an inferior product?


How would you know what the loads are like? Even more so, how would you know what the YIELD is? Yield is what matters, not loads. Also consider that it's been the Australian winter where loads are normally lighter. The market has been stimulated and the upcoming summer season will tell the true tale. Oh and with respect to loads, UA purposely blocked off seats initially, and then incrementally reduced the seat block, in order to determine to optimal fuel and payload numbers for such a long stage of flight.

Fanboys/girls can be the worst at times. Can we please get back to objectivity on this board?


Maybe embellished a little bit, but perhaps he meant (or can be inferred) how AA and DL have Premium Economy with enhanced meals and amenities to Australia versus United which is just a seat in a Premium Economy cabin at the moment with standard Y class meals. That's not to say it's not coming, but it's either pay for Polaris or be stuck in Y for a very long flight.

For those wondering, I just checked Flyertalk and they have an active thread on this same topic being discussed.


Fair, but with that particular poster the more thoughtful assessment that you gave is thoroughly lacking on their part. In that regard, the amount of customers who are willing to pay for a Premium Eco product with enhanced meals and amenities is far below the amount of customers who are looking for the lowest fare. What customers look for is convenience and price. UA's LAX and SFO flights to SYD and MEL do very well. IAH allows for Latin American, Great Lakes, and Eastern customers another option to Australia. As another poster said earlier, if Qantas can do decently well on their DFW-SYD, then UA's IAH-SYD fills a similar niche.
 
N649DL
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:31 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

How would you know what the loads are like? Even more so, how would you know what the YIELD is? Yield is what matters, not loads. Also consider that it's been the Australian winter where loads are normally lighter. The market has been stimulated and the upcoming summer season will tell the true tale. Oh and with respect to loads, UA purposely blocked off seats initially, and then incrementally reduced the seat block, in order to determine to optimal fuel and payload numbers for such a long stage of flight.

Fanboys/girls can be the worst at times. Can we please get back to objectivity on this board?


Maybe embellished a little bit, but perhaps he meant (or can be inferred) how AA and DL have Premium Economy with enhanced meals and amenities to Australia versus United which is just a seat in a Premium Economy cabin at the moment with standard Y class meals. That's not to say it's not coming, but it's either pay for Polaris or be stuck in Y for a very long flight.

For those wondering, I just checked Flyertalk and they have an active thread on this same topic being discussed.


Fair, but with that particular poster the more thoughtful assessment that you gave is thoroughly lacking on their part. In that regard, the amount of customers who are willing to pay for a Premium Eco product with enhanced meals and amenities is far below the amount of customers who are looking for the lowest fare. What customers look for is convenience and price. UA's LAX and SFO flights to SYD and MEL do very well. IAH allows for Latin American, Great Lakes, and Eastern customers another option to Australia. As another poster said earlier, if Qantas can do decently well on their DFW-SYD, then UA's IAH-SYD fills a similar niche.


True. Is the A380 on Qantas to DFW subsidized though? That's a huge plane for a route like that. OW connections in DFW helpful as well with AA.

Also, just checking IAH-SYD and it's definitely not a daily flight. For instance it's not operating today or on Tuesday.
 
Lufthansa
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:53 pm

janders wrote:
Doubt a ULH route, especially to a market that is largely geared toward tourism such as Australia ever be profitable.



How much do you actually know about Australia? Sydney is one of a handful of financial capitals in the world. London, New York, Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo. It actually outranks places like Paris and Frankfurt. Even with blocking off seats to get the range and not being able to take the cargo, QF and AA are able to make the A380 flight to Dallas work very well. Four of the worlds top 20 banks are based in Australia.... and they usually get listed in the top 10.

This says more to me about united's marketing efforts. The country is more than just a giant beach, cattle station and a rock in the middle of the desert. If you look at the median income per capita it is higher than even the UK. So perhaps united are making the mistake of marketing at the wrong end.... and marketing to Australian Business people rather than American retirees if they wanna make this route work. I haven't seen one add yet for it. But both AA and QF push DFW aggressively and IAH offers pretty much everything DFW can. And UA can do it with an aircraft without weight restrictions and less than half as many seats to fill. Oh... and if little old Air Canada can make BNE-YVR an outstanding success.... why can't UA out of one of its biggest hubs offering far more connections than YVR from Europe to almost every place in North America, plus all of Central America. Could this just be they're targeting the wrong market? Don't forget back in the days with transpacific was just united and qf you couldn't get a J class ticket for less than $10K. And they both went out close to full every day.
Last edited by Lufthansa on Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:55 pm

superjeff wrote:
There is no reason the flight can't work out of IAH. Qantas is running a very successful A380 daily out of DFW and has for a couple of years. And that is without a JV with its OneWorld Partner American. United has a major hub at IAH and it could serve the same way as DFW does for AA/QF..


You realize the only reason that DFW flight exist is because of AA connectivity to 64 markets. Per QF own testimony only about 15% of passengers between SYD and DFW flight are O&D. Without AA, there would be no flight.

QF has even stated they expect without a ATI/JV AA might no longer be as willing to offer broad codeshares causing QF to drop route entirely.

Its power of having a hub on both ends, something UA cant make use of on the Australia end.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:04 pm

Lufthansa wrote:

How much do you actually know about Australia? Sydney is one of a handful of financial capitals in the world. London, New York, Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo. It actually outranks places like Paris and Frankfurt. Even with blocking off seats to get the range and not being able to take the cargo, QF and AA are able to make the A380 flight to Dallas work very well. Four of the worlds top 20 banks are based in Australia.... and they usually get listed in the top 10.
.


I know you are responding to someone else, but facts are that US-Australia is primarily a leisure market - big tourism draw from both ends. Sure there is business done, its dwarfed by tourist/VFR flow. Per latest US government stats(2016), merely 8% percent of travel between nations was for "business/convention/conference/tradeshow". 91% was for leisure/VFR with remainder random things like education/health care, etc.


As far as DFW QF service, I would not compare that to UA from IAH. The ability to utilize power of two home carrier hubs at each end is a great part of the reason the route exist, something UA cannot make use of in SYD.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Lufthansa
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:13 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Lufthansa wrote:

How much do you actually know about Australia? Sydney is one of a handful of financial capitals in the world. London, New York, Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo. It actually outranks places like Paris and Frankfurt. Even with blocking off seats to get the range and not being able to take the cargo, QF and AA are able to make the A380 flight to Dallas work very well. Four of the worlds top 20 banks are based in Australia.... and they usually get listed in the top 10.
.


I know you are responding to someone else, but facts are that US-Australia is primarily a leisure market - big tourism draw from both ends. Sure there is business done, its dwarfed by tourist/VFR flow. Per latest US government stats(2016), merely 8% percent of travel between nations was for "business/convention/conference/tradeshow". 91% was for leisure/VFR with remainder random things like education/health care, etc.


As far as DFW QF service, I would not compare that to UA from IAH. The ability to utilize power of two home carrier hubs at each end is a great part of the reason the route exist, something UA cannot make use of in SYD.



Something you have to realise is Australians are trained to tick "tourist" on immigration incoming cards and say they're just here for a look around. There was a problem of people who said 'business' when it was merely a meeting of them being turned back. Years ago, when QF was negotiating the 787 order, the then chairman of QF Margret Jackson got held up at LAX because she had 787 seating plans in her brief case. They questioned her extensively and when she explained she was the chairman of QF they replied with "but you're a woman". The only thing that saved her was a text to QF headquarters and Boeings CEO making some calls to Washington. From the Australian end... those figures aren't necessarily accurate. We all know to say we just wanna go skiing/see the Empire State building/ watch Elton John sing in LAS Vegas or we are on our way to Mexico.
 
N649DL
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:30 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Lufthansa wrote:

As far as DFW QF service, I would not compare that to UA from IAH. The ability to utilize power of two home carrier hubs at each end is a great part of the reason the route exist, something UA cannot make use of in SYD.


No way, not even a comparison between AA's connecting markets and also on the SYD end with QF. OW dominated route.

Probably a reason why IAH-SYD isn't daily like UA does to SFO or LAX. It makes you wonder why they fly it since connecting opportunities and feed to especially SFO are already on point. And while IAH connections are probably more convenient for some (with slightly better timing) over LAX/SFO, it isn't all that much better as it still departs in the 10pm hour. Perhaps corporate contracts help out on the route, IDK.

That said, UA isn't slow to pull a long haul route that isn't performing. See the recent LAX-SIN move to SFO. So figure they're probably giving it a little more time to see how it's doing.
 
redroo
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:49 pm

Lufthansa wrote:
janders wrote:
Doubt a ULH route, especially to a market that is largely geared toward tourism such as Australia ever be profitable.



How much do you actually know about Australia? Sydney is one of a handful of financial capitals in the world. London, New York, Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo. It actually outranks places like Paris and Frankfurt. Even with blocking off seats to get the range and not being able to take the cargo, QF and AA are able to make the A380 flight to Dallas work very well. Four of the worlds top 20 banks are based in Australia.... and they usually get listed in the top 10.

This says more to me about united's marketing efforts. The country is more than just a giant beach, cattle station and a rock in the middle of the desert. If you look at the median income per capita it is higher than even the UK. So perhaps united are making the mistake of marketing at the wrong end.... and marketing to Australian Business people rather than American retirees if they wanna make this route work. I haven't seen one add yet for it. But both AA and QF push DFW aggressively and IAH offers pretty much everything DFW can. And UA can do it with an aircraft without weight restrictions and less than half as many seats to fill. Oh... and if little old Air Canada can make BNE-YVR an outstanding success.... why can't UA out of one of its biggest hubs offering far more connections than YVR from Europe to almost every place in North America, plus all of Central America. Could this just be they're targeting the wrong market? Don't forget back in the days with transpacific was just united and qf you couldn't get a J class ticket for less than $10K. And they both went out close to full every day.



Love the quote about the beach, cattle ranch and rock.
 
tpaewr
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:01 am

jetero wrote:
N649DL wrote:
jetero wrote:

Um, no. You must be thinking of AKL.


No need for the attitude there pal. Was it AKL?


UA announced AKL post merger and canceled it before it started, attributing it to the City approving an international terminal for HOU.

The whole premise of your post—presented as very certain—was false.



Actually AKL was announced by CO as a carrot to make the merger more attractive to Houston


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/new ... d=10647757
 
jayunited
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:09 am

LAXintl wrote:
I would say with rising fuel cost, uneven loads, and reduced frequency for several months would point to not doing well.


You are correct. The loads during the northern hemisphere summer have been all over the place on both legs. On the IAH-SYD leg UA can't sell all 252 seats onboard because of weight restrictions but coming out of SYD our loads are not consistent either. Some days we have a completely full boat other days we have 70-120 passengers on board. On days when there is a light load coming out of SYD our cargo sales department does a great job booking 30,000-45,000 pounds of cargo but cargo can't make up the potential lost revenue from not selling those seats especially with fuel prices being where they are.

While I don't know if the route is profitable, I will say the route was a lot more stable load wise during the southern hemisphere summer and I think what UA might do is make this route seasonal operate it from mid-October through the end of March and let the route go dormant from April through the middle of October. This way if you are turning a profit during the southern hemisphere's summer you're not giving back that profit during the winter when load factors are all over the place.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:34 am

LH658 wrote:
NZ seems to partner with VA, I guess it would be better to partner with VA as well.

No longer the case from end of October when NZ switches to QF for internal Aussie flights and the Trans-Tasman JV dissolves. Having said that I think UA issues tickets on both QF and VA flights in domestic Australia segments (and sometimes QF ones come cheaper than VA!)

Michael
 
United1
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:39 am

Another thing to consider is that SYD-IAH almost certainly pulls connecting traffic off of SYD-LAX/SFO. If that lets UA sell tickets to higher yielding O&D passengers on SYD-LAX/SFO that may justify SYD-IAHs existence even if the route isn't profitable on its own. That's one of the reasons why you don't just look at an individual routes profitability when deciding whether to keep it or not...you have to look at what it adds to the network.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
Lufthansa
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:57 am

United1 wrote:
Another thing to consider is that SYD-IAH almost certainly pulls connecting traffic off of SYD-LAX/SFO. If that lets UA sell tickets to higher yielding O&D passengers on SYD-LAX/SFO that may justify SYD-IAHs existence even if the route isn't profitable on its own. That's one of the reasons why you don't just look at an individual routes profitability when deciding whether to keep it or not...you have to look at what it adds to the network.


Very good point. Otherwise a lot of carriers would drop LHR in a flash.... but to keep the corporates and elites happy it has to be an option.
 
laca773
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:09 am

Imo, UA will never be up to the same standards QF offers out of DFW & what NZ offers out of IAH. Even with a connection, NZ still offers a far superior soft product compared to UA in all classes of service.
(This also counts for LAX/SFO). Out of UA, AA & DL, IMO, DL offers the better soft product & crew even though AA is utilizing their B787-9s. It's a shame UA won't get those Polaris cabins installed on their B787-8/9s where they truly need them on these important trans-Pacific ULHs. Catering needs to desperately improve as does the consistency of the overall in-flight service put forth.
 
United1
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:23 am

laca773 wrote:
Imo, UA will never be up to the same standards QF offers out of DFW & what NZ offers out of IAH. Even with a connection, NZ still offers a far superior soft product compared to UA in all classes of service.
(This also counts for LAX/SFO). Out of UA, AA & DL, IMO, DL offers the better soft product & crew even though AA is utilizing their B787-9s. It's a shame UA won't get those Polaris cabins installed on their B787-8/9s where they truly need them on these important trans-Pacific ULHs. Catering needs to desperately improve as does the consistency of the overall in-flight service put forth.


Yet despite all of that somehow or another UA flies more passengers out of SYD than AA and DL do combined. As for the Polaris hard product I belie they are supposed to start retrofitting the 787 fleet next year.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
andrew50
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:51 am

superjeff wrote:
There is no reason the flight can't work out of IAH. Qantas is running a very successful A380 daily out of DFW and has for a couple of years. And that is without a JV with its OneWorld Partner American. United has a major hub at IAH and it could serve the same way as DFW does for AA/QF.

Also, AKL - IAH - AKL seems to be doing pretty well for NZ, with 77W equipment. Houston is the fifth largest city in the U.S. and a good business center, as well as a good connecting point to many cities on the East Coast. I do agree with several above, though, that UA's Polaris Business class seems a bit underwhelming compared to Qantas via DFW. And I think the QF/AA connection over DFW is the real competition here.


Actually, Houston is the 4th largest city in the United States!
 
superjeff
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:55 am

LAXintl wrote:
superjeff wrote:
There is no reason the flight can't work out of IAH. Qantas is running a very successful A380 daily out of DFW and has for a couple of years. And that is without a JV with its OneWorld Partner American. United has a major hub at IAH and it could serve the same way as DFW does for AA/QF..


You realize the only reason that DFW flight exist is because of AA connectivity to 64 markets. Per QF own testimony only about 15% of passengers between SYD and DFW flight are O&D. Without AA, there would be no flight.

QF has even stated they expect without a ATI/JV AA might no longer be as willing to offer broad codeshares causing QF to drop route entirely.

Its power of having a hub on both ends, something UA cant make use of on the Australia end.



I agree with that. But Houston IAH is a major hub for United and can pretty much match AA's DFW operation for destinations available for connections to their Australia flights, including connections to LGA and DCA which are outside the perimeter in most cases for LAX connections.
 
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lydh
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:10 am

Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.
 
catiii
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:10 am

Judge1310 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
loads are terrible, also with a business class product that still doesnt quite stack up to the competition. If your connecting to SYD somewhere in the lower 48 and want to fly business class, why would someone choose an inferior product?


How would you know what the loads are like? Even more so, how would you know what the YIELD is? Yield is what matters, not loads. Also consider that it's been the Australian winter where loads are normally lighter. The market has been stimulated and the upcoming summer season will tell the true tale. Oh and with respect to loads, UA purposely blocked off seats initially, and then incrementally reduced the seat block, in order to determine to optimal fuel and payload numbers for such a long stage of flight.

Fanboys/girls can be the worst at times. Can we please get back to objectivity on this board?


He doesn't know, just like he doesn't know most of the things he throws out there as wild claims. And when he's called to account for them, he never can.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:42 am

lydh wrote:
Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.


You must be in a Broadway show with your propensity to be a drama queen.
Whatever
 
jetero
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:50 am

lydh wrote:
Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.


You’re right, hundreds of people are now committing suicide on the daily just thinking about it. Now fourth leading cause of death in the U.S. Please help us find money for a cure ... convincing people just not to fly it (or even think about it) and move on. It’s an uphill battle ...
Last edited by jetero on Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
77H
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:56 am

doug_or wrote:
Is cargo really that important on an ULH route? Most cargo doesn't mind connecting.


Could you put me in touch with the major air freight shippers you know that don't mind connections for their products? I'd love to get a hold of some of that business.

Remember, behind every box of cargo is a person doing the shipping and receiving of the product therein. I can assure you they care. Connections add time to market and increase the chances for damage and lost freight. The airlines also care as connections add costs on multiple fronts, from fuel to handling costs.
As a matter of fact, I'd argue, in many cases, cargo customers care more about the routing of their freight than most passengers care about how they travel. Most air freight customers ship multiple times a week, if not daily. They get a sense of what works and what doesn't much quicker than your casual passenger, and to some extent, business traveler.

77H
 
Pi7472000
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:16 am

[quote="lydh"]Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.[/quo

The seat really is outdated for the prices they charge! I am surprised they use such an outdated seat for such a long flight. It would be nice if they offered First class as an option like United Airlines did and have all aisle access. The soft product in Business and coach is not nearly as good as Qantas as well.
 
777PHX
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:18 am

superjeff wrote:
There is no reason the flight can't work out of IAH. Qantas is running a very successful A380 daily out of DFW and has for a couple of years. And that is without a JV with its OneWorld Partner American. United has a major hub at IAH and it could serve the same way as DFW does for AA/QF.

Also, AKL - IAH - AKL seems to be doing pretty well for NZ, with 77W equipment. Houston is the fifth largest city in the U.S. and a good business center, as well as a good connecting point to many cities on the East Coast. I do agree with several above, though, that UA's Polaris Business class seems a bit underwhelming compared to Qantas via DFW. And I think the QF/AA connection over DFW is the real competition here.


Except QF has two OW superhubs on both ends while UA doesn't have much Australia feed.
 
Obzerva
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:59 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA really needs a codeshare partner in Australia for this to work. Id be amazed if IAH-SYD wasn't a giant flop outside the Northern Winter.


Agree, and this may be a little out of the box on who that partner is, but would ZL help?

Hear me out on this one, QF will be wanting to support their own flight to DFW.
VA and UA aren't exactly besties since Virgin hooked up with DL.

But even for a small scale codeshare, ZL routes from regional destinations in NSW feeding on to the flight could help it.
By going NSW regional destinations you're picking places that in all likelihood don't have an option of connecting anywhere but SYD on to the flight directly, where as any other codeshare partner would be wanting to feed their own flight via LAX or DFW via a MEL/BNE anyways.

Just a thought.
 
Gemuser
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:38 am

Obzerva wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA really needs a codeshare partner in Australia for this to work. Id be amazed if IAH-SYD wasn't a giant flop outside the Northern Winter.

Agree, and this may be a little out of the box on who that partner is, but would ZL help?
Hear me out on this one, QF will be wanting to support their own flight to DFW.
VA and UA aren't exactly besties since Virgin hooked up with DL.
But even for a small scale codeshare, ZL routes from regional destinations in NSW feeding on to the flight could help it.
By going NSW regional destinations you're picking places that in all likelihood don't have an option of connecting anywhere but SYD on to the flight directly, where as any other codeshare partner would be wanting to feed their own flight via LAX or DFW via a MEL/BNE anyways.
Just a thought.

Reasonable speculation, but I doubt it, there is just not the population to support it. NSW has a population of about 6 million of which about 5 million live within about 150 km of the centre of Sydney and a fair part of the rest live closer to MEL & BNE than SYD.

Gemuser
 
N649DL
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:39 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
lydh wrote:
Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.[/quo

The seat really is outdated for the prices they charge! I am surprised they use such an outdated seat for such a long flight. It would be nice if they offered First class as an option like United Airlines did and have all aisle access. The soft product in Business and coach is not nearly as good as Qantas as well.


Unfortunately for United the old orders for the 787 were placed through Continental and it is unknown to many of what contract they already had with seats, and how much it would cost to cancel it to replace with a Polaris lie-flat product which was barely under debut for most of the fleet. That said, I'm a little surprised they didn't cut off the 2-2-2 product for the newer 787-9s that were delivered after the announcement in 2016. I was like, "what are they thinking" unless they had some weird contract where they couldn't dip out of it.

And I agree, not competitive with the old CO BF seat in regards to foreign competition. Apparently they are better than the 757s and 763s in terms of space in the 787 but I would bet most people are flying it based on price among the competition.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:50 am

Gemuser wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA really needs a codeshare partner in Australia for this to work. Id be amazed if IAH-SYD wasn't a giant flop outside the Northern Winter.

Agree, and this may be a little out of the box on who that partner is, but would ZL help?
Hear me out on this one, QF will be wanting to support their own flight to DFW.
VA and UA aren't exactly besties since Virgin hooked up with DL.
But even for a small scale codeshare, ZL routes from regional destinations in NSW feeding on to the flight could help it.
By going NSW regional destinations you're picking places that in all likelihood don't have an option of connecting anywhere but SYD on to the flight directly, where as any other codeshare partner would be wanting to feed their own flight via LAX or DFW via a MEL/BNE anyways.
Just a thought.

Reasonable speculation, but I doubt it, there is just not the population to support it. NSW has a population of about 6 million of which about 5 million live within about 150 km of the centre of Sydney and a fair part of the rest live closer to MEL & BNE than SYD.

Gemuser


I agree that Rex wouldn't be a huge boost but it is an interesting thought.

I will say however that the NSW population is about 7.5 million and the vast majority live alot closer to Sydney than Melbourne or Brisbane. The Hunter, Illawarra and the Central Coast alone take up a fair whack of the 2.5 million outside of Sydney. Although a Rex partnership could only work for Newcastle in these cases.
 
qf002
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:55 am

Gemuser wrote:
Reasonable speculation, but I doubt it, there is just not the population to support it. NSW has a population of about 6 million of which about 5 million live within about 150 km of the centre of Sydney and a fair part of the rest live closer to MEL & BNE than SYD.


Your numbers are a bit old! NSW passed 8 million last week and the population of the Sydney metro is now approaching 5.5 million (though this is a very different measure to your 150km radius).
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3040
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:15 am

N649DL wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
loads are terrible, also with a business class product that still doesnt quite stack up to the competition. If your connecting to SYD somewhere in the lower 48 and want to fly business class, why would someone choose an inferior product?


How would you know what the loads are like? Even more so, how would you know what the YIELD is? Yield is what matters, not loads. Also consider that it's been the Australian winter where loads are normally lighter. The market has been stimulated and the upcoming summer season will tell the true tale. Oh and with respect to loads, UA purposely blocked off seats initially, and then incrementally reduced the seat block, in order to determine to optimal fuel and payload numbers for such a long stage of flight.

Fanboys/girls can be the worst at times. Can we please get back to objectivity on this board?


Maybe embellished a little bit, but perhaps he meant (or can be inferred) how AA and DL have Premium Economy with enhanced meals and amenities to Australia versus United which is just a seat in a Premium Economy cabin at the moment with standard Y class meals. That's not to say it's not coming, but it's either pay for Polaris or be stuck in Y for a very long flight.

For those wondering, I just checked Flyertalk and they have an active thread on this same topic being discussed.


So you're making assumptions with NO Facts huh? Well?? if you're making assumptions? Then How is the SFO-SYD UA863 or LAX-SYD UA 839 Doing?
I just looked them up on line and the Load factors on all 3 UA863/839 and UA101 (IAH) and all 3 seem to be doing pretty well..
UA 101 Appears to be a connector from EWR AND IAD, VIA IAH-SYD. It makes sense as now ORD can connect Pax via IAH as well as SFO.and LAX. They all seem to be flying the B787-8.
 
StudiodeKadent
Posts: 214
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Re: United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:24 am

janders wrote:
Doubt a ULH route, especially to a market that is largely geared toward tourism such as Australia ever be profitable.


Dude... Sydney is a relatively important world financial center. Its not New York or Hong Kong or London but it isn't a place to be dismissed.

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