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codyul
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:45 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
That will never happen, only serious LCCs or Leisure carriers use 3-3-3 in A330s. Rest assured it will remain 2-4-2.

I sincerely hope that's true!
Have you sat in the last 10 rows on the MAX or used the lav?
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5885
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:07 pm

AsiaTravel wrote:
Speaking of LYS, the country manager of AC in France says in a recent interview that they want to move to daily in 2020. https://www.le-tout-lyon.fr/-la-liaison ... 10179.html


He says "up to" and also mentions their 5x weekly frequency, which now is at 4x in fact. I guess the daily will be like for GVA, during summer and Christmas time.
I have discovered that once people are truly captivated in their ignorance, they are generally unwilling to let the facts interfere.
(Rick Drury's Flightlines "Paychecks", Airways April 2003)
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:15 pm

codyul wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
That will never happen, only serious LCCs or Leisure carriers use 3-3-3 in A330s. Rest assured it will remain 2-4-2.

I sincerely hope that's true!
Have you sat in the last 10 rows on the MAX or used the lav?


Haven't been on the max yet unfortunately. None booked either at this time.
 
EChid
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:31 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
codyul wrote:
EChid wrote:
I'm actually very pleased about this development, being based at YUL. I like the Dreamliners, sure, but the 333s will feel like new birds once the interiors are redone, and the favourable 2-4-2 seating is a treat.

100 percent agree, also based at YUL, i quite love my 330s. But I'm very worried that they've found a way to cram 3-3-3 in Y :(
I hope not, but it's my fear.


That will never happen, only serious LCCs or Leisure carriers use 3-3-3 in A330s. Rest assured it will remain 2-4-2.

Yep, whywhyzee is correct. No full-service airline operates 333s in 3-3-3. It's just not done. There's a small chance that, if they were Rouged eventually, they would go 3-3-3...but even that seems unlikely.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
Dominion301
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:50 pm

EChid wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
AC’s strategy with Rouge is to maintain low capital costs, therefore I doubt you’ll see the A321LR or 787s (even AC hand-me-downs) anytime soon. I could see Rouge starting its transition to an all-Airbus fleet with 5 second-hand A330s replacing the oldest 767s through 2023 and then a progressively faster conversion as the frames age. AC would no doubt have preferred to find cheap 767s to rotate the old frames out but Amazon is driving their price up on the used market.

The fact that many think AC doesn’t need a small widebody aircraft ignores that they have a few routes which benefit from having less seats to fill, namely YVR-BNE, YYC-NRT, YOW-LHR/FRA and YUL-BRU/LYS. The 788 is also a great aircraft to increase frequency on currently daily Asian routes (HKG, PVG, PEK).

The 787 retirements should be covered by the 2-789s and 4-A330s coming online. YUL-ALG will surely go back to Rouge for summer 2020, YUL-DUB back to 738 and if they decide to keep YVR-DUB it would be a likely 788 route. That leaves 1 789 (excluding the one put on YYZ-VIE) and 3 A330s available to replace the 767s. I’d think all the current 767 routes would be a better fit for 788s. It might make more sense for AC to concentrate the 788s out west doing YVR-Asia/Europe and YYC-NRT, with A330s doing TATL and thus the YOW flying.

I think there's more flexibility in their 767 routes than thought. Some can go big (A330), some can go small (MAX8 or 9). Everyone swore up and down that the 767 couldn't leave the YHZ>LHR route, but it did. AC adapted, and just sent an A330 to YHZ from YUL for cargo before it turned for Europe. I don't know why it's so key that AC keep the 767 on the YOW>LHR route, but clearly its the one route they're not sure what to do with quite yet, since they're keeping a single 767 in the mainline fleet past 2019 just to cover that route. Perhaps they make good bank on the flatbeds, but it is more likely to be cargo-related.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised if this turns into a MAX8 route (I think it can, given that it's still ~800 short of the MAX's range).


There are a few big differences between YHZ-LHR getting MAXed and YOW-LHR, such as:
-The relatively large J class demand out of YOW from government traffic (any government traffic connecting beyond LHR is just about an automatic J class seat due to the 8 hour rule). The MAX is domestic J, which doesn't cut it for biz pax. Also, the need/incentive for J is small at YHZ given the much shorter flight.
-AC will probably want to have the same aircraft type flying both YOW-LHR and YOW-FRA (like how the MAX now shares YHZ and YYT-LHR) and the MAX doesn't have the legs for YOW-FRA.
-The enormous amount of transatlantic competition there is at YHZ vs the current none at YOW.
-AC's YOW summer transatlantic loads are typically in the 90-95% range on the 763. Downgauging YOW-LHR to a MAX is a huge capacity cut that would force a lot more YOW pax to drive to YUL...much of which AC would lose to other airlines, whereas a 788 is a modest increase, while the 333 has already been used periodically at YOW in the past.

One possibility is YOW will see the 333 in summer and the 788 in winter, when the need for widebody frames is lower and demand on YOW-LHR is lower. The used AC 333s are acquiring that the don't have time to re-configure are clearly being put on Rouge routes (or in the case of YUL-DUB a MAX route with less than 1/2 the frequency).

The the end of the day, we'll know AC's plans for certain about a year from now.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:43 pm

Mods, I recommend changing this to an AC changes thread, not just summer. I feel like it would be better served that way.

On that note, C-FITW had a tailstrike at HKG as AC15 from YYZ. Will be interesting to see how they manage having a 77W down for a little while.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5885
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:58 pm

Frequency reduction on YVR-TPE from Apr. 30, 2019

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... y-changes/
I have discovered that once people are truly captivated in their ignorance, they are generally unwilling to let the facts interfere.
(Rick Drury's Flightlines "Paychecks", Airways April 2003)
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:44 pm

New TC flight duty regs are out, with an interesting new restriction, no flight can be scheduled to exceed 16 hours, meaning places like SIN and JNB are effectively off the table.

Of ACs current routes, YVR-MEL will have the biggest effect, as it can easily exceed 16 hours.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:57 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
New TC flight duty regs are out, with an interesting new restriction, no flight can be scheduled to exceed 16 hours, meaning places like SIN and JNB are effectively off the table.

Of ACs current routes, YVR-MEL will have the biggest effect, as it can easily exceed 16 hours.


Incorrect, flight duty times can be up to 20 hrs with augmentation and suitable crew rest facilities.
 
briguychau
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:23 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Frequency reduction on YVR-TPE from Apr. 30, 2019

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... y-changes/


This is mostly to facilitate YVR-MEL going 4x weekly (increase from 3x weekly)
 
master14225
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:41 am

When will YVR-MEL go daily finally? YVR-BNE is daily which is a way smaller market compared to YVR-MEL.
 
karan69
Posts: 2721
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:49 am

Which route is the 77LR that is freed up from YYZ-BOM gonna be used ?

Also with the 16 hour crew restriction limit does that mean that BOM is effectively ruled out for W19 as well as the BOM-YYZ used to blocked at 16 hrs
 
matt
Posts: 721
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:29 am

karan69 wrote:
Which route is the 77LR that is freed up from YYZ-BOM gonna be used ?


For peak S2019 season, the 77L will be used on the following flights:

(-) AC 876 YYZ-FRA 2135-1110+ 77L
(-) AC 877 FRA-YYZ 1710-1930 77L

(-) AC 844 YYC-FRA 1705-1010+ 77L
(-) AC 845 FRA-YYC 1355-1515 77L

(-) AC 015 YYZ-HKG 0950-1325+ 77L
(-) AC 016 HKG-YYZ 1510-1815 77L

(-) AC 033 YYZ-YVR 2015-2205 77L
(-) AC 033 YVR-SYD 2350-0820+ 77L
(-) AC 034 SYD-YVR 1010-0730 77L
(-) AC 034 YVR-YYZ 0900-1620 77L
Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:40 pm

karan69 wrote:
Which route is the 77LR that is freed up from YYZ-BOM gonna be used ?

Also with the 16 hour crew restriction limit does that mean that BOM is effectively ruled out for W19 as well as the BOM-YYZ used to blocked at 16 hrs


As I said before, crews can operate up to 20 hrs with augmentation and suitable crew rest facilities under the new rules.
 
EChid
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:52 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
karan69 wrote:
Which route is the 77LR that is freed up from YYZ-BOM gonna be used ?

Also with the 16 hour crew restriction limit does that mean that BOM is effectively ruled out for W19 as well as the BOM-YYZ used to blocked at 16 hrs


As I said before, crews can operate up to 20 hrs with augmentation and suitable crew rest facilities under the new rules.

I'm not sure why people are interpreting these new rules as meaning that Canada has intentionally made flights of over 16 hours impossible for their carriers to operate. Given the new era of extra-long-haul flights, this just wouldn't be logical and would dramatically hinder AC/WS' chances to be competitive.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 788
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:55 pm

EChid wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
karan69 wrote:
Which route is the 77LR that is freed up from YYZ-BOM gonna be used ?

Also with the 16 hour crew restriction limit does that mean that BOM is effectively ruled out for W19 as well as the BOM-YYZ used to blocked at 16 hrs


As I said before, crews can operate up to 20 hrs with augmentation and suitable crew rest facilities under the new rules.

I'm not sure why people are interpreting these new rules as meaning that Canada has intentionally made flights of over 16 hours impossible for their carriers to operate. Given the new era of extra-long-haul flights, this just wouldn't be logical and would dramatically hinder AC/WS' chances to be competitive.


Both of the above posts are completely correct. The majority of reports are quoting duty day limitations for a two man crew. Add a 3rd and a 4th they incrementally increase
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5885
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:21 am

Some more changes announced for:

YUL-NRT; YYZ-MXP; YYZ-PVG & YVR-PEK.


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-23jan19/
I have discovered that once people are truly captivated in their ignorance, they are generally unwilling to let the facts interfere.
(Rick Drury's Flightlines "Paychecks", Airways April 2003)
 
matt
Posts: 721
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:54 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Some more changes announced for:

YUL-NRT; YYZ-MXP; YYZ-PVG & YVR-PEK.


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-23jan19/


I just saw that. I had seen the changes reflected in the schedule, except the YVR-PEK flight, which will now be oprerated by the 77L.

I cannot see how the six 77Ls will be able to accomplish all their missions. It was already pretty "full" with the following:

MASTER 77L SCHEDULE (6 frames)
Summer 2019 (July-August)

(-) AC 876 YYZ-FRA 2135-1110+ 77L
(-) AC 877 FRA-YYZ 1710-1930 77L

(-) AC 844 YYC-FRA 1705-1010+ 77L
(-) AC 845 FRA-YYC 1355-1515 77L

(-) AC 015 YYZ-HKG 0950-1325+ 77L
(-) AC 016 HKG-YYZ 1510-1815 77L

(-) AC 033 YYZ-YVR 2015-2205 77L
(-) AC 033 YVR-SYD 2350-0820+ 77L
(-) AC 034 SYD-YVR 1010-0730 77L
(-) AC 034 YVR-YYZ 0900-1620 77L

How can it add YVR-PEK? Maybe one of the above flights will switch to another aircraft type...
Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
 
Noise
Posts: 2389
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:15 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Some more changes announced for:

YUL-NRT; YYZ-MXP; YYZ-PVG & YVR-PEK.


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-23jan19/


Montreal – Algiers eff 06JUN19 A330-300 replaces rouge 767, Business Class sold as Premium Economy
Montreal – Dublin eff 15JUN19 A330-300 replaces 737 MAX 8, 3 weekly (Business Class sold as Premium Economy)


Not sure I understand what is meant by "Business Class sold as Premium Economy". Does that mean passengers will be getting the Business Class product, but at Premium Economy prices?
 
digitalcloud
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:03 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:18 pm

Suspect it's probably J at a discounted rate with reduced onboard service, much like Rouge. Begs the question why the route isn't operated by Rouge. Quite impressive to go from 7M8 to 333 in a year nonetheless.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5885
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:25 pm

Noise wrote:
Montreal – Algiers eff 06JUN19 A330-300 replaces rouge 767, Business Class sold as Premium Economy
Montreal – Dublin eff 15JUN19 A330-300 replaces 737 MAX 8, 3 weekly (Business Class sold as Premium Economy)


Not sure I understand what is meant by "Business Class sold as Premium Economy". Does that mean passengers will be getting the Business Class product, but at Premium Economy prices?


These flights will be operated by former SQ/TP A333s that AC acquired recently. Is it just because they are being rushed into service before getting a proper AC cabin configuration or something else, I don't know.
I have discovered that once people are truly captivated in their ignorance, they are generally unwilling to let the facts interfere.
(Rick Drury's Flightlines "Paychecks", Airways April 2003)
 
EChid
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:38 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Noise wrote:
Montreal – Algiers eff 06JUN19 A330-300 replaces rouge 767, Business Class sold as Premium Economy
Montreal – Dublin eff 15JUN19 A330-300 replaces 737 MAX 8, 3 weekly (Business Class sold as Premium Economy)


Not sure I understand what is meant by "Business Class sold as Premium Economy". Does that mean passengers will be getting the Business Class product, but at Premium Economy prices?


These flights will be operated by former SQ/TP A333s that AC acquired recently. Is it just because they are being rushed into service before getting a proper AC cabin configuration or something else, I don't know.

Yes, that's the issue. A few of the 333s coming from SQ via TP haven't been reconfigured (the schedule is too busy), so they're flying in the economy/angled J-class seat config that SQ uses on their 333s. Since AC is unwilling to sell that as Signature Class (it would ruin their branding), they're only selling it as PY. A very nice PY at that.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
Noise
Posts: 2389
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:10 pm

EChid wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Noise wrote:
Montreal – Algiers eff 06JUN19 A330-300 replaces rouge 767, Business Class sold as Premium Economy
Montreal – Dublin eff 15JUN19 A330-300 replaces 737 MAX 8, 3 weekly (Business Class sold as Premium Economy)


Not sure I understand what is meant by "Business Class sold as Premium Economy". Does that mean passengers will be getting the Business Class product, but at Premium Economy prices?


These flights will be operated by former SQ/TP A333s that AC acquired recently. Is it just because they are being rushed into service before getting a proper AC cabin configuration or something else, I don't know.

Yes, that's the issue. A few of the 333s coming from SQ via TP haven't been reconfigured (the schedule is too busy), so they're flying in the economy/angled J-class seat config that SQ uses on their 333s. Since AC is unwilling to sell that as Signature Class (it would ruin their branding), they're only selling it as PY. A very nice PY at that.


Will they eventually be reconfigured, however?
 
EChid
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:17 pm

Noise wrote:
EChid wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

These flights will be operated by former SQ/TP A333s that AC acquired recently. Is it just because they are being rushed into service before getting a proper AC cabin configuration or something else, I don't know.

Yes, that's the issue. A few of the 333s coming from SQ via TP haven't been reconfigured (the schedule is too busy), so they're flying in the economy/angled J-class seat config that SQ uses on their 333s. Since AC is unwilling to sell that as Signature Class (it would ruin their branding), they're only selling it as PY. A very nice PY at that.


Will they eventually be reconfigured, however?

Yes, starting fall 2019. Obviously ex. SQs will be the priority, as they're lost revenue, although all will be refitted eventually.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
master14225
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:24 pm

I was wondering when YVR-MEL will become daily with the 787?
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:36 pm

matt wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Some more changes announced for:

YUL-NRT; YYZ-MXP; YYZ-PVG & YVR-PEK.


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-23jan19/


I just saw that. I had seen the changes reflected in the schedule, except the YVR-PEK flight, which will now be oprerated by the 77L.

I cannot see how the six 77Ls will be able to accomplish all their missions. It was already pretty "full" with the following:

MASTER 77L SCHEDULE (6 frames)
Summer 2019 (July-August)

(-) AC 876 YYZ-FRA 2135-1110+ 77L
(-) AC 877 FRA-YYZ 1710-1930 77L

(-) AC 844 YYC-FRA 1705-1010+ 77L
(-) AC 845 FRA-YYC 1355-1515 77L

(-) AC 015 YYZ-HKG 0950-1325+ 77L
(-) AC 016 HKG-YYZ 1510-1815 77L

(-) AC 033 YYZ-YVR 2015-2205 77L
(-) AC 033 YVR-SYD 2350-0820+ 77L
(-) AC 034 SYD-YVR 1010-0730 77L
(-) AC 034 YVR-YYZ 0900-1620 77L

How can it add YVR-PEK? Maybe one of the above flights will switch to another aircraft type...


I imagine YYZ-HKG or YYZ/YYC-FRA will go 77W with the frame they freed up from YVR-PEK. HKG could use it, though their cargo uplift will be limited. FRA was consistently full or over sold 2+ weeks out last summer, it could really use an upgrade.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5885
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:56 am

master14225 wrote:
I was wondering when YVR-MEL will become daily with the 787?


If they already have the rights, then I guess it will happen when they either have the capacity or demand is stronger.
I have discovered that once people are truly captivated in their ignorance, they are generally unwilling to let the facts interfere.
(Rick Drury's Flightlines "Paychecks", Airways April 2003)
 
Dominion301
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:26 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
I was wondering when YVR-MEL will become daily with the 787?


If they already have the rights, then I guess it will happen when they either have the capacity or demand is stronger.


I believe it’s due to AC being maxed out on seat capacity within the Canada-Australia bilateral. You’d think this would be a bilateral ripe for Open Skies.
 
hz747300
Posts: 2301
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:36 am

CX used the 77W on the HKG-YYZ, is it weight restricted? I've flown this route a couple of times and surprisingly given the number of dual citizens it was not even close to full each time. Would seem to be a good 789 route for AC unless cargo is a big part of the equation for them.
Keep on truckin'...
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:50 am

hz747300 wrote:
CX used the 77W on the HKG-YYZ, is it weight restricted? I've flown this route a couple of times and surprisingly given the number of dual citizens it was not even close to full each time. Would seem to be a good 789 route for AC unless cargo is a big part of the equation for them.


AC just upguage to the 77W for the winter, and CX has been adding capacity over the past couple years, up to double daily in the summer, 10x in the winter, and there is always one flight a day with the higher density Y class, so evidently, it is doing well.
 
ac33e
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:50 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
CX used the 77W on the HKG-YYZ, is it weight restricted? I've flown this route a couple of times and surprisingly given the number of dual citizens it was not even close to full each time. Would seem to be a good 789 route for AC unless cargo is a big part of the equation for them.


AC just upguage to the 77W for the winter, and CX has been adding capacity over the past couple years, up to double daily in the summer, 10x in the winter, and there is always one flight a day with the higher density Y class, so evidently, it is doing well.


The good times are short lived on this route. Wait until HX crashes the party just like they did on YVR-HKG and tanked the fares. AC now has the 789 on YVR-HKG
 
hz747300
Posts: 2301
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:15 am

ac33e wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
CX used the 77W on the HKG-YYZ, is it weight restricted? I've flown this route a couple of times and surprisingly given the number of dual citizens it was not even close to full each time. Would seem to be a good 789 route for AC unless cargo is a big part of the equation for them.


AC just upguage to the 77W for the winter, and CX has been adding capacity over the past couple years, up to double daily in the summer, 10x in the winter, and there is always one flight a day with the higher density Y class, so evidently, it is doing well.


The good times are short lived on this route. Wait until HX crashes the party just like they did on YVR-HKG and tanked the fares. AC now has the 789 on YVR-HKG


Hey, we were able to fly r/t HKG-YVR on HX for HK$21k in business class last year. This year, the cost was higher, at HK$26k and now that the kids require their own seat, we chose Y class in CX. If they launch YYZ as they state they will, I suspect only year 1 will be super low fares--but they have to market this much better. My dual citizen co-workers had no idea HX was flying to YVR when I booked my tickets the previous year. Rather than tanking yields, I prefer to say that HX keeps CX honest.
Keep on truckin'...
 
User avatar
CFM565A1
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:11 pm

    whywhyzee wrote:
    Mods, I recommend changing this to an AC changes thread, not just summer. I feel like it would be better served that way.

    On that note, C-FITW had a tailstrike at HKG as AC15 from YYZ. Will be interesting to see how they manage having a 77W down for a little while.


    Any news on the condition of this plane? Hasn’t flown since that day...
    Flown: C172-M/N/P/R/S , P2006T, PA-34-200T, DH8A/C Been on: DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
     
    whywhyzee
    Posts: 896
    Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:48 pm

    CFM565A1 wrote:
      whywhyzee wrote:
      Mods, I recommend changing this to an AC changes thread, not just summer. I feel like it would be better served that way.

      On that note, C-FITW had a tailstrike at HKG as AC15 from YYZ. Will be interesting to see how they manage having a 77W down for a little while.


      Any news on the condition of this plane? Hasn’t flown since that day...


      I was actually just thinking about that today. I’ve heard rumours that it’s being repaired, I’ve also heard that the damage was extreme and it’s being written off, which would be disasterous for AC, they need all the 777s they can for the summer.
       
      User avatar
      CFM565A1
      Posts: 300
      Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:49 pm

      whywhyzee wrote:
      CFM565A1 wrote:
        whywhyzee wrote:
        Mods, I recommend changing this to an AC changes thread, not just summer. I feel like it would be better served that way.

        On that note, C-FITW had a tailstrike at HKG as AC15 from YYZ. Will be interesting to see how they manage having a 77W down for a little while.


        Any news on the condition of this plane? Hasn’t flown since that day...


        I was actually just thinking about that today. I’ve heard rumours that it’s being repaired, I’ve also heard that the damage was extreme and it’s being written off, which would be disasterous for AC, they need all the 777s they can for the summer.


        I'm no expert with write-offs and such but typically if the pressure bulkhead is toast then it's a write off... I guess we'll see...
        Flown: C172-M/N/P/R/S , P2006T, PA-34-200T, DH8A/C Been on: DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
         
        Flightsimboy
        Posts: 1747
        Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:49 pm

        Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

        Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:09 am

        hz747300 wrote:
        ac33e wrote:
        whywhyzee wrote:

        AC just upguage to the 77W for the winter, and CX has been adding capacity over the past couple years, up to double daily in the summer, 10x in the winter, and there is always one flight a day with the higher density Y class, so evidently, it is doing well.


        The good times are short lived on this route. Wait until HX crashes the party just like they did on YVR-HKG and tanked the fares. AC now has the 789 on YVR-HKG


        Hey, we were able to fly r/t HKG-YVR on HX for HK$21k in business class last year. This year, the cost was higher, at HK$26k and now that the kids require their own seat, we chose Y class in CX. If they launch YYZ as they state they will, I suspect only year 1 will be super low fares--but they have to market this much better. My dual citizen co-workers had no idea HX was flying to YVR when I booked my tickets the previous year. Rather than tanking yields, I prefer to say that HX keeps CX honest.


        Is that $21,000 ($21K) or $2,100 ($2.1K). K = 1000. You mentioned kids so I am not sure if $21,000 is what you paid?
         
        smallmj
        Posts: 71
        Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:39 pm

        Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

        Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:10 am

        CFM565A1 wrote:
          whywhyzee wrote:
          Mods, I recommend changing this to an AC changes thread, not just summer. I feel like it would be better served that way.

          On that note, C-FITW had a tailstrike at HKG as AC15 from YYZ. Will be interesting to see how they manage having a 77W down for a little while.


          Any news on the condition of this plane? Hasn’t flown since that day...


          I heard a completely unsubstantiated rumour that they were having trouble importing parts because of the trade/Huawei tiff.
           
          matt
          Posts: 721
          Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

          Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

          Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:05 am

          CFM565A1 wrote:
          whywhyzee wrote:
          CFM565A1 wrote:

            Any news on the condition of this plane? Hasn’t flown since that day...


            I was actually just thinking about that today. I’ve heard rumours that it’s being repaired, I’ve also heard that the damage was extreme and it’s being written off, which would be disasterous for AC, they need all the 777s they can for the summer.


            I'm no expert with write-offs and such but typically if the pressure bulkhead is toast then it's a write off... I guess we'll see...


            If AC is short one 77W this summer, that may explain why YVR-PEK (AC029/AC030) will no longer be operated with a 77W. That flight is now scheduled to operated by a 77L. As there are not enough 77Ls to take on this flight, that means that one of the currently scheduled 77L flights will have to be operated by another type. Domino effect?
            Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
             
            whywhyzee
            Posts: 896
            Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

            Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

            Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:39 am

            matt wrote:
            CFM565A1 wrote:
            whywhyzee wrote:

            I was actually just thinking about that today. I’ve heard rumours that it’s being repaired, I’ve also heard that the damage was extreme and it’s being written off, which would be disasterous for AC, they need all the 777s they can for the summer.


            I'm no expert with write-offs and such but typically if the pressure bulkhead is toast then it's a write off... I guess we'll see...


            If AC is short one 77W this summer, that may explain why YVR-PEK (AC029/AC030) will no longer be operated with a 77W. That flight is now scheduled to operated by a 77L. As there are not enough 77Ls to take on this flight, that means that one of the currently scheduled 77L flights will have to be operated by another type. Domino effect?


            Seems very likely.
             
            EChid
            Posts: 424
            Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

            Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

            Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:50 am

            Flightsimboy wrote:
            hz747300 wrote:
            ac33e wrote:

            The good times are short lived on this route. Wait until HX crashes the party just like they did on YVR-HKG and tanked the fares. AC now has the 789 on YVR-HKG


            Hey, we were able to fly r/t HKG-YVR on HX for HK$21k in business class last year. This year, the cost was higher, at HK$26k and now that the kids require their own seat, we chose Y class in CX. If they launch YYZ as they state they will, I suspect only year 1 will be super low fares--but they have to market this much better. My dual citizen co-workers had no idea HX was flying to YVR when I booked my tickets the previous year. Rather than tanking yields, I prefer to say that HX keeps CX honest.


            Is that $21,000 ($21K) or $2,100 ($2.1K). K = 1000. You mentioned kids so I am not sure if $21,000 is what you paid?

            Pretty sure that HK$21K is referring to 21,000 Hong Kong Dollars, or approximately $3,500 CAD (currently). Very reasonable for a 15h flight. Too reasonable some might say. Come to think of it, I flew back from HKG to YYZ in J in 2017 for a similarly reasonable sum. It's probably good news for both CX and AC that values are no longer this low.
            2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
             
            whywhyzee
            Posts: 896
            Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

            Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

            Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:59 am

            matt wrote:
            CFM565A1 wrote:
            whywhyzee wrote:

            I was actually just thinking about that today. I’ve heard rumours that it’s being repaired, I’ve also heard that the damage was extreme and it’s being written off, which would be disasterous for AC, they need all the 777s they can for the summer.


            I'm no expert with write-offs and such but typically if the pressure bulkhead is toast then it's a write off... I guess we'll see...


            If AC is short one 77W this summer, that may explain why YVR-PEK (AC029/AC030) will no longer be operated with a 77W. That flight is now scheduled to operated by a 77L. As there are not enough 77Ls to take on this flight, that means that one of the currently scheduled 77L flights will have to be operated by another type. Domino effect?


            Here's a thought, they have the 77L scheduled for more than the theoretical maximum capacity of the fleet, they may well have picked up an additional 77L from EY. They could have used additional lift anyways. Having a 77W down long term (or potentially permanently) could further exacerbate that need.

            Just a thought.
             
            Flightsimboy
            Posts: 1747
            Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:49 pm

            Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

            Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:45 am

            EChid wrote:
            Flightsimboy wrote:
            hz747300 wrote:

            Hey, we were able to fly r/t HKG-YVR on HX for HK$21k in business class last year. This year, the cost was higher, at HK$26k and now that the kids require their own seat, we chose Y class in CX. If they launch YYZ as they state they will, I suspect only year 1 will be super low fares--but they have to market this much better. My dual citizen co-workers had no idea HX was flying to YVR when I booked my tickets the previous year. Rather than tanking yields, I prefer to say that HX keeps CX honest.


            Is that $21,000 ($21K) or $2,100 ($2.1K). K = 1000. You mentioned kids so I am not sure if $21,000 is what you paid?

            Pretty sure that HK$21K is referring to 21,000 Hong Kong Dollars, or approximately $3,500 CAD (currently). Very reasonable for a 15h flight. Too reasonable some might say. Come to think of it, I flew back from HKG to YYZ in J in 2017 for a similarly reasonable sum. It's probably good news for both CX and AC that values are no longer this low.


            I did the same thing with INR recently. Strange how easy it is to think of everything is $$ lol. $3500 would get me two Y return fares to the Indian Subcontinent or 4 flights of 15 hours each lol. How the frugal have to think!
             
            User avatar
            CFM565A1
            Posts: 300
            Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

            Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

            Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:20 pm

            whywhyzee wrote:
            matt wrote:
            CFM565A1 wrote:

            I'm no expert with write-offs and such but typically if the pressure bulkhead is toast then it's a write off... I guess we'll see...


            If AC is short one 77W this summer, that may explain why YVR-PEK (AC029/AC030) will no longer be operated with a 77W. That flight is now scheduled to operated by a 77L. As there are not enough 77Ls to take on this flight, that means that one of the currently scheduled 77L flights will have to be operated by another type. Domino effect?


            Here's a thought, they have the 77L scheduled for more than the theoretical maximum capacity of the fleet, they may well have picked up an additional 77L from EY. They could have used additional lift anyways. Having a 77W down long term (or potentially permanently) could further exacerbate that need.

            Just a thought.


            Would be intertesting to see if it flies again or not. Personally I see them optioning a couple more 789s if this plane is parked for good.
            Flown: C172-M/N/P/R/S , P2006T, PA-34-200T, DH8A/C Been on: DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
             
            User avatar
            SuperTwin
            Posts: 130
            Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:44 pm

            Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

            Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:28 pm

            CFM565A1 wrote:
            whywhyzee wrote:
            matt wrote:

            If AC is short one 77W this summer, that may explain why YVR-PEK (AC029/AC030) will no longer be operated with a 77W. That flight is now scheduled to operated by a 77L. As there are not enough 77Ls to take on this flight, that means that one of the currently scheduled 77L flights will have to be operated by another type. Domino effect?


            Here's a thought, they have the 77L scheduled for more than the theoretical maximum capacity of the fleet, they may well have picked up an additional 77L from EY. They could have used additional lift anyways. Having a 77W down long term (or potentially permanently) could further exacerbate that need.

            Just a thought.


            Would be intertesting to see if it flies again or not. Personally I see them optioning a couple more 789s if this plane is parked for good.



            They could also ‘rent’ capacity like they did a few years back with EuroAtlantic when the 787s weren’t on-time though no insight as to whether the recent pilot agreements implemented any restrictions on this.
            SuperTwin
             
            matt
            Posts: 721
            Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

            Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

            Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:04 pm

            whywhyzee wrote:
            matt wrote:
            CFM565A1 wrote:

            I'm no expert with write-offs and such but typically if the pressure bulkhead is toast then it's a write off... I guess we'll see...


            If AC is short one 77W this summer, that may explain why YVR-PEK (AC029/AC030) will no longer be operated with a 77W. That flight is now scheduled to operated by a 77L. As there are not enough 77Ls to take on this flight, that means that one of the currently scheduled 77L flights will have to be operated by another type. Domino effect?


            Here's a thought, they have the 77L scheduled for more than the theoretical maximum capacity of the fleet, they may well have picked up an additional 77L from EY. They could have used additional lift anyways. Having a 77W down long term (or potentially permanently) could further exacerbate that need.

            Just a thought.


            Interesting hypothesis! It would make sense. Given that their fleet utilization is extremely high for S19, they might need an extra 77L. There is absolutely no slack in their 788, 789 and 77WP fleets. Unless they get another 333 faster than anticipated. They're slated to recieve two before the S19 peak season and the 2 others later in 2019.
            Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
             
            LDRA
            Posts: 106
            Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:01 am

            Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

            Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:23 am

            CFM565A1 wrote:
            whywhyzee wrote:
            matt wrote:

            If AC is short one 77W this summer, that may explain why YVR-PEK (AC029/AC030) will no longer be operated with a 77W. That flight is now scheduled to operated by a 77L. As there are not enough 77Ls to take on this flight, that means that one of the currently scheduled 77L flights will have to be operated by another type. Domino effect?


            Here's a thought, they have the 77L scheduled for more than the theoretical maximum capacity of the fleet, they may well have picked up an additional 77L from EY. They could have used additional lift anyways. Having a 77W down long term (or potentially permanently) could further exacerbate that need.

            Just a thought.


            Would be intertesting to see if it flies again or not. Personally I see them optioning a couple more 789s if this plane is parked for good.


            How about second hand 77W coming off 12 years lease?
             
            YYZLGA
            Posts: 286
            Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

            Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

            Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:28 pm

            smallmj wrote:
            CFM565A1 wrote:
              whywhyzee wrote:
              Mods, I recommend changing this to an AC changes thread, not just summer. I feel like it would be better served that way.

              On that note, C-FITW had a tailstrike at HKG as AC15 from YYZ. Will be interesting to see how they manage having a 77W down for a little while.


              Any news on the condition of this plane? Hasn’t flown since that day...


              I heard a completely unsubstantiated rumour that they were having trouble importing parts because of the trade/Huawei tiff.


              That would shock me at HKG. At PEK or PVG, maybe.

              How about second hand 77W coming off 12 years lease?


              That seems like a fairly easy solution. There must be a few available. Still, replacing and refitting a whole 77W will be a huge cost. I know insurance will cover it, but wow. Thankfully nobody was harmed in the incident.
               
              hz747300
              Posts: 2301
              Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

              Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

              Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:47 am

              Flightsimboy wrote:
              hz747300 wrote:
              ac33e wrote:

              The good times are short lived on this route. Wait until HX crashes the party just like they did on YVR-HKG and tanked the fares. AC now has the 789 on YVR-HKG


              Hey, we were able to fly r/t HKG-YVR on HX for HK$21k in business class last year. This year, the cost was higher, at HK$26k and now that the kids require their own seat, we chose Y class in CX. If they launch YYZ as they state they will, I suspect only year 1 will be super low fares--but they have to market this much better. My dual citizen co-workers had no idea HX was flying to YVR when I booked my tickets the previous year. Rather than tanking yields, I prefer to say that HX keeps CX honest.


              Is that $21,000 ($21K) or $2,100 ($2.1K). K = 1000. You mentioned kids so I am not sure if $21,000 is what you paid?


              HK$21k / per adult. We have triplets so my dad flew with us, and the kids were only 10% of the 21k (~HK$2.1k each). as lap children.

              For reference, in J class at that time, AC was HK$31k / per adult, and CX was HK$29k / per adult.
              Keep on truckin'...
               
              LDRA
              Posts: 106
              Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:01 am

              Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

              Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:38 am

              YYZLGA wrote:
              smallmj wrote:
              CFM565A1 wrote:



                That seems like a fairly easy solution. There must be a few available. Still, replacing and refitting a whole 77W will be a huge cost. I know insurance will cover it, but wow. Thankfully nobody was harmed in the incident.


                They can pull seats, interior from the mishap frame. Would it be that bad refitting a second hand 77W during a D check? Is the refitting cost mostly labor, or the seats and interior?
                 
                EChid
                Posts: 424
                Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

                Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

                Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:07 am

                I'm sure AC is the mystery Hi-Fly A380 operator for the summer in light of this incident ;)
                2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
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