mozart
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European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:26 pm

Which European routes are no longer served by DL? I believe they have cut especially from JFK.

Which European cities have completely lost all DL service?
 
MaksFly
Posts: 262
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:28 pm

SVO - was seasonal, then permanent, then back to seasonal, and now fully cut IIRC.
 
sw733
Posts: 5711
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:32 pm

I know I flew to Budapest and back at least twice on DL in the late 1990s, I believe from JFK.

Also know I flew DL from Kiev in late 2000s, also I believe to JFK

(I fly too much, I can barely remember what I flew last year let alone 10-20 years ago!)
 
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MalcolmInTheMoM
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:47 pm

VLC used to be served by DL at one point from JFK if I'm not mistaken.
 
LIPZ
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:48 pm

mozart wrote:
Which European cities have completely lost all DL service?

As far as I remember the following cities in the last decade
Bucharest
Budapest
Istanbul
Kiev
Manchester
Moscow
Pisa
Stockholm
Valencia
Vienna
 
EMB170
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:50 pm

SVO and BUD, definitely. VIE and ARN were also served from both JFK and ATL, as was ATL-CPH and ATL-PRG (though I think JFK-PRG still exists). In addition, JFK had service to VLC, PSA, OSL, HEL, and OTP. IIRC JFK-GOT was announced but never started.
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
twicearound
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:51 pm

SVO, ARN, IST, MAN, KBP, WAW (former base), OTP
 
c7aero
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:52 pm

Apart from Budapest, Kiev, and Moscow, I remember that DL flew at one point its own metal to Berlin, Bucharest, Helsinki, Istanbul, Lyon, Munich, Oslo, Pisa, Stockholm, Vienna, and Warsaw.
Last edited by c7aero on Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
twicearound
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:54 pm

c7aero wrote:
Apart from Budapest, Kiev, and Moscow, I remember that DL flew its own metal to Berlin, Bucharest, Helsinki, Istanbul, Lyon, Munich, Oslo, Pisa, Stockholm, Vienna, and Warsaw.


Vienna was flown from ATL not NYC and Berlin is still flown seasonally today
 
EMB170
Posts: 301
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:59 pm

I forgot about IST, LYS, and WAW! Also, LED.
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
c7aero
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:14 pm

twicearound wrote:
c7aero wrote:
Apart from Budapest, Kiev, and Moscow, I remember that DL flew its own metal to Bucharest, Helsinki, Istanbul, Lyon, Munich, Oslo, Pisa, Stockholm, Vienna, and Warsaw.


Vienna was flown from ATL not NYC and Berlin is still flown seasonally today


True, TXL still sees DL flights part of the year. This thread is about European destinations no longer served by DL, regardless of from which US airport.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:33 pm

EMB170 wrote:
I forgot about IST, LYS, and WAW! Also, LED.


WAW and LED? Really? Was that the immediate post-Pan Am intra-Europe era?
 
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cvgComair
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:35 pm

Quite a few have been cut over the years from CVG: CVG-AMS/LGW/FRA/MUC/ZRH/BRU/FCO/ORY. Only CVG-CDG remains.

Others they flew recently but have since cut: CDG-PIT/ORD/PHL/EWR, LHR-PHL, and AMS-EWR/MEM.
Next: CVG-LGA (Delta CRJ-900), LGA-PWM (Delta CRJ-900)
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TWA902fly
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:36 pm

MaksFly wrote:
SVO - was seasonal, then permanent, then back to seasonal, and now fully cut IIRC.


Delta served Moscow from 1991 to 2017. For a short while there was even an ATL-SVO flight. I also believe they flew to St. Petersburg initially after the break up of the Soviet Union. Not sure when that ended.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
stylo777
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:39 pm

Quite interesting to see Pisa on that list....
 
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OA412
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:46 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
MaksFly wrote:
SVO - was seasonal, then permanent, then back to seasonal, and now fully cut IIRC.


Delta served Moscow from 1991 to 2017. For a short while there was even an ATL-SVO flight. I also believe they flew to St. Petersburg initially after the break up of the Soviet Union. Not sure when that ended.

'902

I have a vague recollection that they inherited this route from PA. I seem to recall they flew FRA-LED. Someone please correct if I'm wrong.
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FSDan
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:50 pm

mozart wrote:
Which European routes are no longer served by DL? I believe they have cut especially from JFK.


These are the ones I can remember since I got really interested in commercial aviation back in 2007...

SEA-LHR (switched to VS)
LAX-LHR (switched to all-VS)
MSP-FCO
ORD-CDG (switched back to AF)
CVG-LGW, CDG, AMS, FRA, FCO (CVG dehubbed)
MEM-AMS (MEM dehubbed)
MIA-LHR
ATL-SNN
ATL-EDI
ATL-MAN (switched to VS)
ATL-LGW (kept for a bit after DL gained LHR access, but dropped a little while later)
ATL-LIS
ATL-CPH
ATL-PRG
ATL-VIE
ATL-ATH
ATL-SVO
PIT-CDG
PHL-LHR
PHL-CDG
EWR-CDG
EWR-AMS
JFK-MAN (switched to VS)
JFK-LGW (moved to LHR)
JFK-VLC
JFK-LYS
JFK-ARN
JFK-PSA
JFK-BUD
JFK-IST
JFK-OTP
JFK-KBP
JFK-SVO

As someone else mentioned, JFK-GOT was also dropped, but I don't think it ever operated.

mozart wrote:
Which European cities have completely lost all DL service?


Based on the above list:
MAN
LGW
VLC
LYS
ARN
PSA
VIE
BUD
IST
OTP
KBP
SVO

I'm not sure when DL flew to OSL or WAW, but those must have been before 2007.
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jbs2886
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:01 am

c7aero wrote:
Apart from Budapest, Kiev, and Moscow, I remember that DL flew at one point its own metal to Berlin, Bucharest, Helsinki, Istanbul, Lyon, Munich, Oslo, Pisa, Stockholm, Vienna, and Warsaw.


Munich is served by up to 3 gateways.
 
jbs2886
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:03 am

FSDan wrote:
mozart wrote:
Which European routes are no longer served by DL? I believe they have cut especially from JFK.


These are the ones I can remember since I got really interested in commercial aviation back in 2007...

SEA-LHR (switched to VS)
LAX-LHR (switched to all-VS)
MSP-FCO
ORD-CDG (switched back to AF)
CVG-LGW, CDG, AMS, FRA, FCO (CVG dehubbed)
MEM-AMS (MEM dehubbed)
MIA-LHR
ATL-SNN
ATL-EDI
ATL-MAN (switched to VS)
ATL-LGW (kept for a bit after DL gained LHR access, but dropped a little while later)
ATL-LIS
ATL-CPH
ATL-PRG
ATL-VIE
ATL-ATH
ATL-SVO
PIT-CDG
PHL-LHR
PHL-CDG
EWR-CDG
EWR-AMS
JFK-MAN (switched to VS)
JFK-LGW (moved to LHR)
JFK-VLC
JFK-LYS
JFK-ARN
JFK-PSA
JFK-BUD
JFK-IST
JFK-OTP
JFK-KBP
JFK-SVO

As someone else mentioned, JFK-GOT was also dropped, but I don't think it ever operated.

mozart wrote:
Which European cities have completely lost all DL service?


Based on the above list:
MAN
LGW
VLC
LYS
ARN
PSA
VIE
BUD
IST
OTP
KBP
SVO

I'm not sure when DL flew to OSL or WAW, but those must have been before 2007.


CVG-CDG still exists.
 
SteelChair
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:04 am

HAM

And surprised no one has mentioned ORY or LGW......which were very important during the years that the Euro carriers engaged in a little home cookin' and locked Delta out of CDG and LHR. 'Fraid of a little competition? Ah, the power of the alliances.


Many, many, many of the destinations listed above were inherited from the Pan Am acquisition. The fact that they are no longer flown (directly, they can all be accessed via partners) tells the story of how successful that acquisition was. It ended the "old Delta."
 
cokepopper
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:09 am

I believe we also flew JFK-GVA right after the pan am acquisition.
 
FSDan
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:16 am

jbs2886 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
mozart wrote:
Which European routes are no longer served by DL? I believe they have cut especially from JFK.


These are the ones I can remember since I got really interested in commercial aviation back in 2007...

SEA-LHR (switched to VS)
LAX-LHR (switched to all-VS)
MSP-FCO
ORD-CDG (switched back to AF)
CVG-LGW, CDG, AMS, FRA, FCO (CVG dehubbed)
MEM-AMS (MEM dehubbed)
MIA-LHR
ATL-SNN
ATL-EDI
ATL-MAN (switched to VS)
ATL-LGW (kept for a bit after DL gained LHR access, but dropped a little while later)
ATL-LIS
ATL-CPH
ATL-PRG
ATL-VIE
ATL-ATH
ATL-SVO
PIT-CDG
PHL-LHR
PHL-CDG
EWR-CDG
EWR-AMS
JFK-MAN (switched to VS)
JFK-LGW (moved to LHR)
JFK-VLC
JFK-LYS
JFK-ARN
JFK-PSA
JFK-BUD
JFK-IST
JFK-OTP
JFK-KBP
JFK-SVO

As someone else mentioned, JFK-GOT was also dropped, but I don't think it ever operated.

mozart wrote:
Which European cities have completely lost all DL service?


Based on the above list:
MAN
LGW
VLC
LYS
ARN
PSA
VIE
BUD
IST
OTP
KBP
SVO

I'm not sure when DL flew to OSL or WAW, but those must have been before 2007.


CVG-CDG still exists.


Good call!

Also, now that I think about it, I'm not sure if DL ever flew JFK-LGW... Before they had access to LHR, I think they just flew to LGW from CVG and ATL.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Semperfi28
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:33 am

Don’t forget the FRA hub days. I flew them SFO-FRA, LAX-FRA. There was probably a DFW-FRA and a bunch of others. I may remember flying JFK-CPH-PRG & JFK-AMS-PRG.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:44 am

stylo777 wrote:
Quite interesting to see Pisa on that list....


They flew JFK-PSA for several years around 2010. It was a 767 for a while, then a 757 before it was dropped. I enjoyed a radically cheap DTW-JFK-PSA r/t ticket.
 
Cunard
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:42 am

FSDan wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

These are the ones I can remember since I got really interested in commercial aviation back in 2007...

SEA-LHR (switched to VS)
LAX-LHR (switched to all-VS)
MSP-FCO
ORD-CDG (switched back to AF)
CVG-LGW, CDG, AMS, FRA, FCO (CVG dehubbed)
MEM-AMS (MEM dehubbed)
MIA-LHR
ATL-SNN
ATL-EDI
ATL-MAN (switched to VS)
ATL-LGW (kept for a bit after DL gained LHR access, but dropped a little while later)
ATL-LIS
ATL-CPH
ATL-PRG
ATL-VIE
ATL-ATH
ATL-SVO
PIT-CDG
PHL-LHR
PHL-CDG
EWR-CDG
EWR-AMS
JFK-MAN (switched to VS)
JFK-LGW (moved to LHR)
JFK-VLC
JFK-LYS
JFK-ARN
JFK-PSA
JFK-BUD
JFK-IST
JFK-OTP
JFK-KBP
JFK-SVO

As someone else mentioned, JFK-GOT was also dropped, but I don't think it ever operated.



Based on the above list:
MAN
LGW
VLC
LYS
ARN
PSA
VIE
BUD
IST
OTP
KBP
SVO

I'm not sure when DL flew to OSL or WAW, but those must have been before 2007.


CVG-CDG still exists.


Good call!

Also, now that I think about it, I'm not sure if DL ever flew JFK-LGW... Before they had access to LHR, I think they just flew to LGW from CVG and ATL.



DL flew LGW to JFK for approximately a month before it was transferred to LHR after acquiring the former United slots on LHR to JFK, it was planned in that way for marketing reasons.

During the time that Delta flew from LGW they served the airport from several destinations, Atlanta which was the airlines first Transatlantic flight that started in June 1978, Cincinnati, Detroit which was inherited from Pan Am and New York JFK.

During the peak summer months of the mid nineties there were upto five daily departures from Delta at LGW, Atlanta 3 Daily, Cincinnati 1 Daily, Detroit 1 Daily.
 
bhxdtw
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:05 am

About 2013/14 they also operated MIA - LHR. Not sure on what acft tho.

I find it interesting the amount of routes that were once operated by large aircraft but now no longer exist... I remember seeing MD-11's of DL at MAN.

That doesn't just go for DL, off topic I know but look at CO.. They used to operate EWR-BHX on DC-10 equipment but now don't even have a 757 service.
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:23 am

It’s noteworthy that in spite of all the dropped routes, DL is still the #1 Transatlantic airline. This is not even including their partners.

https://www.anna.aero/2018/04/18/transa ... ort-table/

Image
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:49 am

So sad. They are growing more and more dependent on AF/KLM to get their passengers to Europe and the Middle East.

https://youtu.be/XxQ4hBwp4Q4
 
SCQ83
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:01 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
Quite interesting to see Pisa on that list....


They flew JFK-PSA for several years around 2010. It was a 767 for a while, then a 757 before it was dropped. I enjoyed a radically cheap DTW-JFK-PSA r/t ticket.


The only reason to serve PSA is that FLR (Florence) cannot handle anything much bigger than regional aviation. So PSA is the only option to serve Tuscany medium/long-haul. That is the same reason why PSA has today Qatar Airways, Turkish or Russian carriers like Pobeda or S7 Airlines.

If FLR had a fully functional airport, all those carriers would be serving Florence and not Pisa.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 am

MIflyer12 wrote:

WAW and LED? Really?


DL flew JFK-HEL-LED in the mid-to-late 1990s.
 
Thibault973
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:51 am

They also flew ATL-NCE for a few seasons (I believe it was a LAX-ATL-NCE same plane routing).
 
hynithuchi
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:54 am

You can add GVA. With the take-over of PA, DL also inherited a daily ZRH/GVA/IST vv. extension of the JFK/ZRH flight. PA operated this European sector with a B-727, but DL stopped this European tag-on and served GVA for a while with a A-310 ( or was it A-300 ) as an extension of it's JFK/BRU flight. DL dropped GVA alltogether after about 18 months.
 
OlympicATH
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:09 am

Cactusjuba wrote:
It’s noteworthy that in spite of all the dropped routes, DL is still the #1 Transatlantic airline. This is not even including their partners.

https://www.anna.aero/2018/04/18/transa ... ort-table/

Image


This is misleading and inaccurate. The US majors fly from many ports in the US to many ports in Europe. BA only flies from LHR, AF from CDG, etc.
The more accurate way to do this would be by airline groups. BA/IB/EI is effectively the same airline. Same for AF/KL and LH/LX/OS. Unlike the US majors, the European ones kept separate national brands for historical reasons. That's all.
The no1 transatlantic airline is IAG (even if you group DL and VS together).
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:23 pm

One of the few to fly VLC-JFK-VLC, it was in summer 2011 on a full 752. It was seasonal and IIRC only lasted 2 or 3 summers. What a treat to fly non-stop to JFK, I'd have flown it many more times.

I can't recall another scheduled TATL flight out of VLC ever. Would like to confirm if there were others in past times.
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SteelChair
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:01 pm

LAX-FRA, IAD-FRA, TLV-ORY. And of course, the return legs for all of those. The TLV service was actually JFK-ORY-TLV-ORY-JFK.
 
Ionosphere
Posts: 107
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:02 pm

JFK-Gothenburg was announced but never actually operated. Lyon I think was also announced but not never operated.
 
Ionosphere
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:08 pm

During the FRA hub days (1991-1997), DL flew from FRA to Bucharest, Budapest, Istanbul, London-Gatwick, Moscow-SVO, Prague, St. Petersburg, Vienna, Warsaw. There was also a FA base in Warsaw inherited from PA.
 
FatCat
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:17 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Quite interesting to see Pisa on that list....

It was a nice flight. 752, also quite comfortable.
In my 5 trips to and back the plane had always 98% occupancy.
PSA is in a nice position, flying to FCO or MXP and then come to Tuscany can be a real pain in the *ss.
May my post not hurt your feelings
 
DaveFly
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:23 pm

Delta obviously knows what’s best for their network. I had a very pleasant flight with them from Newark to Paris a few years ago:
https://youtu.be/AO5RtbSjmrc
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,787
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
klm617
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:30 pm

DTW-LGW, MCO-FRA, DFW-FRA, CVG-ZRH and CVG-MUC
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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chepos
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:11 pm

I am aware BOM is not in Europe, but was the BOM tag originally via FRA and then moved to CDG? I belive there was even a BOM crew base? Sorry to hijack the thread.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
jbs2886
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:22 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
Cactusjuba wrote:
It’s noteworthy that in spite of all the dropped routes, DL is still the #1 Transatlantic airline. This is not even including their partners.

https://www.anna.aero/2018/04/18/transa ... ort-table/

Image


This is misleading and inaccurate.


Disagree completely. This is not misleading other than perhaps Norwegian which is actually multiple airlines. Either way, it is not "inaccurate" - especially as the graph is expressly by airline.

The US majors fly from many ports in the US to many ports in Europe. BA only flies from LHR, AF from CDG, etc.


BA flies from LGW and LCY. AF also flies from ORY. Either way, this doesn't make a difference because the dynamics are different - it doesn't mean DL isn't bigger.

The more accurate way to do this would be by airline groups. BA/IB/EI is effectively the same airline. Same for AF/KL and LH/LX/OS. Unlike the US majors, the European ones kept separate national brands for historical reasons. That's all.


Is it? So do you include AM in DL? What about a portion of AF/KLM in DL? But more importantly, each of these is a separate airline. They have separate management, etc. It would be inappropriate to lump groups together when you are doing it by airline.

The no1 transatlantic airline is IAG (even if you group DL and VS together).


So basically that graph is misleading because it doesn't lead to the result you want.
 
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OA412
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:43 pm

chepos wrote:
I am aware BOM is not in Europe, but was the BOM tag originally via FRA and then moved to CDG? I belive there was even a BOM crew base? Sorry to hijack the thread.

Correct. DL operated FRA-BOM for many years after the route acquisition from PA. The flight was only moved to CDG after DL and AF announced their partnership, sometime in the very early 2000s.
Semperfi28 wrote:
Don’t forget the FRA hub days. I flew them SFO-FRA, LAX-FRA. There was probably a DFW-FRA and a bunch of others. I may remember flying JFK-CPH-PRG & JFK-AMS-PRG.

Also MIA-FRA for a very short time after the route acquisitions.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:00 pm

OA412 wrote:
chepos wrote:
I am aware BOM is not in Europe, but was the BOM tag originally via FRA and then moved to CDG? I belive there was even a BOM crew base? Sorry to hijack the thread.

Correct. DL operated FRA-BOM for many years after the route acquisition from PA. The flight was only moved to CDG after DL and AF announced their partnership, sometime in the very early 2000s.
Semperfi28 wrote:
Don’t forget the FRA hub days. I flew them SFO-FRA, LAX-FRA. There was probably a DFW-FRA and a bunch of others. I may remember flying JFK-CPH-PRG & JFK-AMS-PRG.

Also MIA-FRA for a very short time after the route acquisitions.


DL also flew to MAA at one time. I don't remember where it stopped in Europe though. I flew the BOM-CDG flight once around 2003.
 
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OA412
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:03 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
OA412 wrote:
chepos wrote:
I am aware BOM is not in Europe, but was the BOM tag originally via FRA and then moved to CDG? I belive there was even a BOM crew base? Sorry to hijack the thread.

Correct. DL operated FRA-BOM for many years after the route acquisition from PA. The flight was only moved to CDG after DL and AF announced their partnership, sometime in the very early 2000s.
Semperfi28 wrote:
Don’t forget the FRA hub days. I flew them SFO-FRA, LAX-FRA. There was probably a DFW-FRA and a bunch of others. I may remember flying JFK-CPH-PRG & JFK-AMS-PRG.

Also MIA-FRA for a very short time after the route acquisitions.


DL also flew to MAA at one time. I don't remember where it stopped in Europe though. I flew the BOM-CDG flight once around 2003.

That's correct. It was a FRA-MAA routing. I cannot remember if it ever moved to CDG when BOM was moved, or if it was dropped prior to that.
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OlympicATH
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:41 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
OlympicATH wrote:
Cactusjuba wrote:
It’s noteworthy that in spite of all the dropped routes, DL is still the #1 Transatlantic airline. This is not even including their partners.

https://www.anna.aero/2018/04/18/transa ... ort-table/

Image


This is misleading and inaccurate.


Disagree completely. This is not misleading other than perhaps Norwegian which is actually multiple airlines. Either way, it is not "inaccurate" - especially as the graph is expressly by airline.

The US majors fly from many ports in the US to many ports in Europe. BA only flies from LHR, AF from CDG, etc.


BA flies from LGW and LCY. AF also flies from ORY. Either way, this doesn't make a difference because the dynamics are different - it doesn't mean DL isn't bigger.

The more accurate way to do this would be by airline groups. BA/IB/EI is effectively the same airline. Same for AF/KL and LH/LX/OS. Unlike the US majors, the European ones kept separate national brands for historical reasons. That's all.


Is it? So do you include AM in DL? What about a portion of AF/KLM in DL? But more importantly, each of these is a separate airline. They have separate management, etc. It would be inappropriate to lump groups together when you are doing it by airline.

The no1 transatlantic airline is IAG (even if you group DL and VS together).


So basically that graph is misleading because it doesn't lead to the result you want.


I explained my thinking. I rest my case.
European airline groups kept separate brands for historical and cultural reasons. It's like Delta keeping the Northwest brand/AOC (or American/US Airways, United/Continental). In Europe you just need to keep the national brands or you lose a major brand and competitive advantage.
IAG is one company. So is AFKLM. So is the Lufthansa Group. Yes they have divisional management teams but there is one single Group management, one Board and one stock (they are all publicly listed).
 
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adambrau
Posts: 200
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Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:38 pm

I flew Delta FRA-WAW-LED and LGW-FRA-SVO ion the early 90's. PA served LED from FRA-SVO-LED but I think DL switched the LED routing frequently.
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JFLANY
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:08 am

Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:09 pm

FSDan wrote:

LAX-LHR (switched to all-VS)

MIA-LHR



LAX-LHR was operated by AF with a DL code-share as I recall. Has DL ever operated this with its own metal?

MIA-LGW was previously served as well, following the PA transaction (routing was MCO-MIA-LGW for at least part of the route's life).
 
winginit
Posts: 1679
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:18 pm

The answer of course depends on the time period you're referring to, which you haven't made clear.

Simply looking at pre-merger and post-merger DL/NW the changes have been relatively minor.

In 2006, the combined DL/NW flew nonstop from the US to 26 European destinations.
This year, DL will have flown nonstop between the US and 27 European destinations.

Those flown in 2006 but not 2018 include LGW, SVO, IST, MAN, BUD, and KBP
Those that were not flown in 2006 but are now flown in 2018 include LIS, PDL, AGP, GLA, PRG, LHR, and KEF

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FSDan
Posts: 1877
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: European destinations no longer served by DL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:18 pm

JFLANY wrote:
FSDan wrote:

LAX-LHR (switched to all-VS)

MIA-LHR



LAX-LHR was operated by AF with a DL code-share as I recall. Has DL ever operated this with its own metal?


I'm pretty sure DL did operate it briefly with their own metal (767-300ER?) a few years back.
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