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Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:39 am

From the Denver Post:


DIA seeks more foreign nonstops


$1 million in incentives dangled for Mexico route

By Greg Griffin
Denver Post Business Writer


Thursday, March 14, 2002 - Denver International Airport is back at work trying to attract nonstop service to faraway destinations.

Mayor Wellington Webb said Wednesday that the city will pay $1 million in marketing incentives to the first carrier to commit to flying daily nonstops between Denver and Mexico City. And airport officials will travel to Paris in May to make another try at luring Air France to DIA.

"We've been talking about trying to get a direct flight to Mexico City for two years. Mexico is a logical next step for us," said Webb's spokesman, Andrew Hudson.

Passengers now must spend about seven hours to get to Mexico City from Denver. A direct flight would take a little over three hours.

The city has had some success with the incentive strategy. British Airways and Lufthansa German Airlines each took the bait when they started service to London and Frankfurt in recent years, though they've said the money wasn't critical in their decisions.

But Air France so far hasn't expressed much public interest in flying to Denver, $1 million or not.

The incentive for Mexico flights indicates that city officials are optimistic that they may have a chance to land the service. In the past, the city has dangled the incentive after already entering discussions with carriers.

The airline must operate the flight for at least a year to receive the incentives.

DIA communications manager Amy Bourgeron said airport officials have discussed nonstop Mexico City flights with Mexicana Airlines, United Airlines and Alaska Airlines, which begins Denver service April 28 and already flies south of the border from several West Coast cities.

Mexicana has flown from Denver for 30 years, but currently offers only one-stop service to Mexico's capital city through various beach resort cities, and the frequency varies by destination.

Webb said members of Denver's business community are clamoring for nonstop flights to Mexico City. Mexico was Colorado's seventh-largest trading partner last year and one of just a handful whose imports from the state grew during the year.

Paris is another coveted route. Bourgeron said the city was making progress in convincing Air France until Sept. 11, which sent the entire airline industry into a financial crisis. Recently, however, Air France officials called and invited Denver officials back in May to restart the talks.

"It's encouraging, a sign that things are starting to recover and airlines are looking forward again," she said.


SOURCE: http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,33%257E460798,00.html?search=filter

Mexicana currently flies to Denver 5 times a week, however it stops in either Puerto Vallerta or Los Cabos (depends on the weekday) before arriving in Mexico City.

They've been trying to lure Air France for about 3 years now and have gotten quite close. They'll be discussions this May about starting the route, and the route might be launched sometime next year if all goes well and the airline industry continues to recover as it is now.

Regards
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johnboy
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:05 am

Last time I looked United had a flight or two from Denver International to a couple of cities around the country.... Big grin

Good God, if they couldn't start a flight, what in the world is wrong with Denver?
 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:19 am

Wait a minute, I thought DEN already had service to MEX. Where exactly does MX fly to from DEN?
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:21 am

OA412,

I said in my post.

They fly from Mexico City to DEN with a stop either in Puerto Vallerta or Los Cabos. So it isn't non-stop.

Regards
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Sorry!

Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:26 am

I really should finish reading posts before replying!
:o

Anyway back to the topic, AF and CDG is a tough one. According to AF themselves DTW was supposed to be their next US destination after PHL and DFW. I have also heard rumours that they are looking into SAN, PHX, and SEA. And, even though it is a relatively small market, you really cannot discount SLC because of its SkyTeam hub status. Of course, the fact that AF invited DEN officials back is a good sign but, we'll have to see how it all turns out.

I still thinks it's pretty surprising that DEN does not have a non-stop to MEX considering we here in SLC have a twice weekly non-stop SLC-MEX on AM.
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BA
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:33 am

Air France to DEN has been on a roller-coaster for most of the years.

Originally they wanted to have it one-stop through ORD, then they thought about having DL doing the flight for them, now there plan is for them to do the flight sometime.

A while ago, a possibility also was for the DEN flight to continue to SLC.

I emailed the Denver spokesman 2 weeks ago and he told me if the airline industry continues to recover as it is now, Air France should be a year away. So that's a good sign.

Regards
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:40 am

CDG-DEN-SLC would make sense surely!DEN has little service to Euroland
 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:50 am

Yes, CDG-DEN-SLC does make sense. However, I think Air France wants to make it non-stop from last I heard.

I think they've dropped this option for now.

We'll see though.

Regards
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:45 am

Thats pretty pathetic... no DEN-MEX nonstops.

As far as I'm concerned, if there was a bigger niche, United would fly that route, I mean they are partners with Mexicana out of MEX, so if there was demand, I am sure it would be flown.

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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:49 am

I agree, it is very pathetic that there is no non-stop DEN-MEX.

From what I've heard DL is doing fantastic on SLC-MEX and Salt Lake City is half the size of Denver.

Salt Lake City has a population of 1.3 million people, while Denver has 2.7 million.

Denver also has a good sized Hispanic population.

From what I've heard, UA was planning on starting DEN-MEX, but 9/11 changed all that.

I'm sure they will put it back on the boards though.

I think there is a very good possibility that we will see DEN-MEX sometime by the end of the year. If not, then surely sometime next year.

Regards
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:50 am

DEN lacks the business traffic necessary to support a MEX nonstop. They'll just have to settle for DEN-DFW-MEX on American or similar connecting itineraries.
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:53 am

Well, the census bureau's population figures can be a little misleading. According to the census bureau SLC includes Ogden to the north but not Provo to the south. SLC's actual catchement area actually approaches 2 million people (not exactly but very close). What is DEN's actual catchement area?
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:00 am

OA412,

DEN's actual catchement area is just Denver and it's suburbs which include Littleton, Golden, Commerce City, Aurora, Lakewood, etc.

If you include Castle Rock to the south. Boulder, Longmont, Broomfield to the north. The population is well over 3 million.

DeltaSFO,

You are very mistaken their. MEX is DEN's 7th largest trading partner. Not only that, but Denver has a large Hispanic population.

It's been studied many times. The loads are definately there.

If DL can do SLC-MEX non-stop, then DEN-MEX is not a problem at all.

UA has never been big on international from DEN. They've treated as a domestic hub only which is why there isn't an MEX non-stop.
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:02 am

Not long ago UA had a DEN-MEX seasonal flight. It lasted a couple of years.
 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:03 am

I do think that a market exists, and I do think DEN-MEX could be succsesful, but DeltaSFO is right. The business market on DEN-MEX is small, which is why MX flies one-stop flights to leisure destinations and that's probably why DEN-MEX still does not exists. However, I do think DEN-MEX will likely happen. Still, though, look at other, much larger Hispanic markets that lack Mexico City service, notably Boston and Philadelphia (and if you want to include Ft. Lauderdale seperate from Miami, them too, but FLL-MEX is coming this summer).
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:04 am

AM is doing well on the SLC-MEX route becuase they have feed from Delta flights so MX could do well on a DIA-MEX route with the feed from UAL's flights from the Northwest .
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:08 am

BA, DL does not do SLC-MEX non-stop, AM does, and only twice a week (or is 3x?). Also, Denver's Hispanic population may be "large" compared to other cities in the Rockies and Midwest, which it actually is, but it is still nothing compared to cities that, as I stated, also lack MEX service, like Boston and Philadelphia, as well as Tampa and Orlando. DEN-MEX will happen, IMO, because of the connection possibilities at DEN, not because of the small business market that exists between DEN and MEX.
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:11 am

Mah4546,

DEN-MEX is a lot bigger than you think. It is the biggest trading market from DEN in all of the Americas.

That Denver Post article says how big of a market DEN is

It is a heavily traveled business route and from what I've heard Mexicana's service to DEN is mostly O&D rather than connections.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:13 am

Mah4546,

You are VERY mistaken about "small business" market between MEX and DEN.

I will try to find the numbers for you. But I'll tell you from now, they are pretty big.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:20 am

You are very mistaken their. MEX is DEN's 7th largest trading partner. Not only that, but Denver has a large Hispanic population.

It's been studied many times. The loads are definately there.

If DL can do SLC-MEX non-stop, then DEN-MEX is not a problem at all.


MEX as in Mexico City or as in the country of Mexico? Most of the cultural connections between Denver and Mexico are tied more in with the more industrial northern states of Mexico rather than Mexico City, DF, which is the financial and governmental center of the country.

There may be a lot of trade between Denver and Mexico, but I wouldn't dream of putting Denver in the same category as New York, Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Dallas/Fort Worth, Atlanta, and Houston, all of which have extensive nonstop service to Mexico City and have the traffic to support it as well as future growth.

Most "large Hispanic populations" tend to be from areas of Mexico other than Mexico City. DEN is better served pushing for more nonstops to points in Northern Mexico where they'll get better O&D numbers.
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:20 am

Mah4546,

This is what the newspaper said:

Webb said members of Denver's business community are clamoring for nonstop flights to Mexico City. Mexico was Colorado's seventh-largest trading partner last year and one of just a handful whose imports from the state grew during the year.

To give you an example, there are many companies based out of Denver that have there products manufactuered in Mexico City and shipped to Denver, then distributed to the rest of the US.

Take Pentax for example. The Japanese camera manufactuer's US HQ is in Denver. In the US, Pentax cameras are manufactuered in Mexico City. That is just one example. I could name several more companies.

I will try to get you the exact numbers tommorow. IM me.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:20 am

United Airlines should be looking at starting direct same plane service from Denver to Sydney. the flight could stop in Honolulu maybe or maybe fly non-stop Denver to Auckland New Zealand and continue to Sydney. the US to Australia/New Zealand route is booming with extremely high load factors on Qantas/United and NZ services. Denver would be a popular tourist destination for Australians with the Ski resorts and excellent connections. makes a good change from going thru hideous L.A. .. QF are starting their Sydney-Auckland-Dallas flight end of this year so Im sure United could make Denver to Down Under work.
 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:23 am

DeltaSFO,

I wasn't comparing DEN with Miami, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, or any of the other major cities in the US.

Yes, those cities are extensively served with some 4 or 5 flights a day.

But the market is there for a single non-stop from DEN to MEX. It would work on an A320, possibly the 757 on some days.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:37 am

BA, If Mexico is Denver's 7th largest trading partner, then what about 1 through 6? We have international service to Canada, England, Germany, and already Mexico.

If there really was money in the route, and the ability to do it, it would've been operating already. Airlines have a fairly good idea (much better than any newspaper does) of where they can make money and where they can't. Airlines don't just sit back and not fly some route that they could make money on. Either they can't make money on DEN-MEX, or the ability (government, fleet, personel, etc) just isn't there. Thats why the City of Denver must offer 1 million to get it to happen.

Denver isn't this huge world class city, nor is the airport...
 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:44 am

I'll agree with BA. DEN-MEX, daily A320, should work. Though it does not surprise me that DEN lacks MEX service, as other larger markets do as well. Just for fun, here are some US-MEX route frequencies:

LAX-MEX: 15 daily
IAH-MEX: 10 daily
MIA-MEX: 10 daily
DFW-MEX: 7 daily
NYC-MEX: 6 daily
SAT-MEX: 2 daily
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:14 am


The "large Hispanic populations" on the East Coast don't consist of very many Mexicans but rather hispanics from the Caribbean and Central/South America. That's why you don't see service between say, MEX-PHL/BOS.

Don't you think DL SLC-MEX service benefits from connecting traffic from other cities?

I agree that there could be room for a DEN-MEX flight though. One daily on a 319 or 320 should do well. Keep in mind also that these flights, whether they are on MX or UA can also benefit from connections.

 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:07 pm

Flyf15,

That's one thing you got wrong. Airlines will serve a route if there is enough persuasion to. It happens all the time. Some cities are forgotten since they focus on major cities such as New York, Chicago, Washington D.C., Miami, Houston, Los Angeles, etc.

United knows that the money in DEN-MEX is there. However United has stayed out of the international market in Denver. Lufthansa and British Airways have proven that the market in DEN is there. Most airline analysts agree that DEN is an underserved international market, along with DTW, MSP, and SEA (SEA is VERY VERY underserved in my opinion). Denver, Detriot, Minneapolis, and Seattle are what you can call the "forgotten cities". Because that's really how it works.

So tell me, if airlines always know that the market is there, then why hasn't UA flown to Frankfurt before Lufthansa? Tell me why? Lufthansa proved that the market is there. Shouldn't have UA known about it?

It's simple, UA knows about the markets, they simply do not wish to serve them as they're focus on Denver is to make it a completely domestic hub which is a big mistake. A major domestic hub should have at least some international service to Europe, Latin America, and Asia.

You really should read some of Michael Boyd's books. It'll all make more sense then.

You are right, Denver is not a huge major city of the world. However it is the 18th largest city in the US which does mean something. Not only that, but Denver is also one of the main Telecom cities in North America home to many Telecom companies such as Qwest. Denver is also the 5th fastest growing city in the US, and just last year surpassed St. Louis. So don't tell me that Denver is "insignificant" just because it isn't a Chicago or New York.

As for Denver Airport not being big. I think most here would DEFINATELY disagree with you. An airport with nearly 100 gates is considered "big". Not only that, but it's the 10th busiest airport in the world, and United Airline's 2nd biggest hub. It's also the largest airport in North America, and the 2nd largest in the world in terms of land area.

Saying Denver Airport is not "big" is just absurd.  Insane
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-sto

Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:20 pm

BA:

I'm with you. You present an excellent case.

Does the million bucks only apply to DEN/MEX?

Because I'd love to see Frontier take on a Mexico route - not a resort (seasonal), but a busness destination, such as Monterrey.

Maybe one day....

Cheers

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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:42 pm

Mariner,

Right now, Denver is offering $1 million incentives for MEX and CDG service.

That's all for now. However, Denver is trying to go after NRT and HKG service. I'm not sure if they are offering incentives on NRT and HKG or not. They might be.

I know Japan Airlines has expressed interest in DEN-NRT.

Regards
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flyf15
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:43 pm

BA, why is you automatically assume I am the one that doesn't understand? Airlines do what they do and make the decisions they do because of money, and usually nothing else (aside from obvious things, such as laws).

About Lufthansa/United. Lufthansa felt they could make a profit on that route, United saw otherwise. Lufthansa was also given some nice incentives to come here.

About the word "big." I meant that in a view of importance and money making ability. There is no doubt that by physical size the airport is enormus.

Most of the traffic through Denver is connecting, it lacks the O&D base that cities like New York and Los Angeles have. And why not compare Denver to those cities? Due to this, costs, remoteness from other areas (such as the coasts), Denver is not the ideal place to make money compared to other cities. This is why Denver has the traffic it does, its all off of supply and demand, thats pretty much how our economy works.

Just, in summary, the service would be there if the profitability was there also. Denver may have Qwest, trading partners, etc, but that does not necessarily make it that the route should not be there.

I think the fact that you think Denver should have every airline and route, that Denver is the center of the aviation universe, and that every new flight at the airport is an event to be recorded in history books is absurd.
 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:44 pm

Regarding Frontier going international.

Frontier has said they would like to serve Canada in the future. However this wouldn't happen until 2005.

Regards
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:00 pm

Flyf15,

BA, why is you automatically assume I am the one that doesn't understand? Airlines do what they do and make the decisions they do because of money, and usually nothing else (aside from obvious things, such as laws).

That is not completely true. Their are markets in the US that are extremely underserved internationally from Europe such as DTW, SEA, and MSP. These 3 cities are VERY underserved internationally, more so than DEN. Airlines don't always realize what markets are available. Both British Airways and Lufthansa were very surprised with the loads they experienced. They predicted that they would be lower.

About Lufthansa/United. Lufthansa felt they could make a profit on that route, United saw otherwise. Lufthansa was also given some nice incentives to come here.

That's true, but both British Airways and Lufthansa said that the incentives were not the main reasons why they decided to serve Denver.

Most of the traffic through Denver is connecting, it lacks the O&D base that cities like New York and Los Angeles have. And why not compare Denver to those cities? Due to this, costs, remoteness from other areas (such as the coasts), Denver is not the ideal place to make money compared to other cities. This is why Denver has the traffic it does, its all off of supply and demand, thats pretty much how our economy works.

Denver is a transit hub like DFW and SLC. DEN is 47% O&D and 53% transiting which is what most major hub airports are. DFW and SLC both have very similar percentages.

Just, in summary, the service would be there if the profitability was there also. Denver may have Qwest, trading partners, etc, but that does not necessarily make it that the route should not be there.

Qwest and trading partners are just a small fraction of it. You'd expect that LGW-DEN on BA and FRA-DEN on LH would be mostly full of skiers and hikers, huh? Well it's not, DEN is mostly a business route, that is full of business travelers. In the winter season it will obviously have skiers and in the summer it will have tourists. But overall the international service into Denver is mostly business traffic. You must not forget that many large international conventions and meetings are held here in Denver.

I think the fact that you think Denver should have every airline and route, that Denver is the center of the aviation universe, and that every new flight at the airport is an event to be recorded in history books is absurd.

Where did that come from?  Insane

Flyf15, read Michael Boyd's books. He is a HIGHLY respected airline analyst. He's even appeared on CNN a few times. He has a lot of articles about the underserved markets in the US such as SEA, DEN, MSP, and DTW. He mentions DEN a lot, and most airline analysts agree that these 4 markets are underserved internationally. You will also see that the airline industry is not always fair. Some markets in the US are overserved, and some are underserved. Many airline analysts say ATL is overserved. That's just one example.
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:02 pm

I think that MX should start MEX-DEN nonstop soon, maybe on a 320 or 319.

There is a large demand for DEN nonstops from MEX, mexicans love resorts such as Vail, Aspen, Steamboat and they like to get there through DEN. More than 10000 mexican tourists traveled to Colorado´s winter resorts on 2000. In 2000 MX flew several days MEX-DEN nonstop on winter.

 
cx340
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:30 pm

I do think there is a market for DEN-MEX-DEN non-stop. Some opf you have said that there is a business market, and others that it is leisure. I think a third element must be added:

If any of you read Airways' magazine article about Philippine Airlines, you will remember that one of PAL's executives explained that a good part of their revenue and load factors came from people visiting relatives, as it is a tradition of the filipino population to do so for whatever event is celebrated. Well, that tradition pretty much applies to Mexicans. Most of us will use sometimes even pontless reasons to go and visit someone, and will sometimes even spend the money we don't have in doing so. I have flown to many cities in the US from Mexico over the years, and not once have I been on a flight which was less than 75% full, no matter the season, the time or the economic conditions (except once on an AA MIA fight, but then again, there are or were more than 15 non-stop and direct flights a day from MEX to MIA).

Now, I understand Denver has a large hispanic population, probably a big part of it of Mexican origin, so I don't see why one daily flight between these cities should be any different fromthe rest of the US markets served non-stop from MEX (which are plenty!). The NW flight to DTW works, the AW flight to Phoenix works, and they are even starting a non-stop from LAS. SLC works, STL used to work (I'm not sure if the flight still exists, and even the newcomer Azteca AIrlines will start to fly non-stop from ABQ, so wy not DEN?

Anyway, just my two cents. . .

 
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:44 pm

I found this at the City of Denver.
http://www.denvergov.org/admin/template3/forms/MetroDenverExports.doc
Rank 1998 Denver Export Totals in US Dollars
1 Canada 332,728,000
2 Japan 264,669,000
3 Netherlands 123,629,000
4 Germany 112,089,000
5 United Kingdom 81,375,000
6 Mexico 71,475,000
7 France 64,539,000
8 Belgium 62,149,000
9 Singapore 53,827,000
10 Australia 44,655,000

So the country of Mexico may be an important trade partner for Denver, but the question remains which route makes most sense. These numbers don't say if the majority of travel and trade activity is to Mexico City, Monterrey, or Guadalajara.

I agree that DEN may be able to support service to Mexico but which city. Heck SAN is larger that DEN with a larger Hispanic population and it doesn't have service to Mexico City. LAS does have GDL and MTY service but not MEX.

Hopefully, someone can find some better breakdowns of information.

BA, Mike Boyd is a good writer and I have personally spoken with him myself. But I guess I always take his comments on DEN and COS with the knowledge that he lives in Colorado. Just like I would guess that people view my comments about Fresno from the idea that I live here.


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
ghost77
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:05 pm

FATFlyer

I think there are no flights between MEX-SAN, because most of the people fly via TIJ, and they just cross the border from TIJ to SAN. Also some people that work in San Diego, are residents at Mexico, everyday they cross the border to get to their jobs. Also there´s no much attractive to San Diego, as DEN like TOMASKEMPNER, point out... many people visit Colorado winter resorts., and from 2000 to 2002., probably pax stats grow in the last 2 years.

Ricardo Morales  Smile
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
Guest

RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-sto

Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:13 pm

Had to add my two cents as well...Michael Boyd is the most over-quoted, windbag with anything having to with airlines and aviation.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:35 pm

Thanks Ricardo, I had a brief memory lapse and forgot about TIJ.  Nuts

But the question still remains if Mexico City would be the best choice from Denver, or would another city in Mexico make more sense.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
roguetrader
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:43 pm

If I had the power I would tomorrow institute nonstop service from Denver to all major cities in Mexico, 3 times a day, with 777s. It MIGHT be unprofitable for the airline, but it would end the excruciating pain of this whole DEN-MEX(+) argument, which unfortunately I am otherwise too bored to ignore.

regards,

RogueTrader
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:08 pm

Mah4546:

Orlando does have service to MEX, I don't know whether MX still flies there but AM sure does, in fact during the summer months AM also flies to Sandford for charter flights.

FATflyer:

Actually, I was just thinking about the possibilites of a Fresno-Mexico (the country) service. I think that the market really exist. I believe that there is enough demand to start service at least on weekend basis. Something like AM did when it restarted services to Ontario. Ontario like Fresno would be not be a business traffic destination but a friends/family market. I say this because I'm pretty sure that Fresno can carry the title of an International Airport. I know its going to happen some day, its just a matter of when...

 Smile LatinPlane

Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:23 pm

LatinPlane,

Authority has been granted for Mexico service from FAT in the past, however the flights never started. Check the FAA database for more info.

FAT's terminal expansion now under construction was designed for a FIS to service international flights, when they do begin.

Like DEN, Fresno would generate more than just leisure travel to Mexico. There are many connections in the ag industry for example, with many Fresno firms handling the importation of Mexican and South American fruits and vegetables for sale across the US.


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
JC5280
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:27 pm

BA....

When talking about DIA, you mentioned its, "the 2nd largest in the world in terms of land area. "


Whats the first largest? I am curious. Thanks!

 
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RayChuang
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Sat Mar 16, 2002 12:07 am

It appears (IMHO) that UA doesn't want to do DEN-MEX because they want to emphasize DEN as a domestic hub.

I think that is a huge mistake; what will UA do if the rumored threat of WN moving into COS becomes reality, as I predict? The presence of WN at COS will suck a lot of O & D traffic from the Denver area, which will put a major hurt on UA. UA will need ways to ensure that DEN continues to be popular; that means (like it or not for UA) more international flights out of DEN.

I think UA will eventually do DEN-MEX, but only when UA can allocated 767-300(ER)'s and 777-200's to the route. This will probably require MX to acquire widebody jets that can fly MEX-DEN-MEX, hopefully in a few years.
 
Guest

RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-sto

Sat Mar 16, 2002 12:18 am

You were joking Ray - a B777 or B767 to Mexico from Denver? If its ever flown, it will be a A320 once a day.

 
BA
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RE: Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop

Sat Mar 16, 2002 12:40 am

JC5280,

The largest is Riyadh King Fahd Int'l (RUH) in Saudi Arabia.

JonPaulGeoRngo,

A320 or 757, it depends. I think a 757 is also very possible. I also agree that a 767 or 777 would be pushing it.

Just on a side note, Denver is the largest US airport without Mexico City (MEX) service........

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran

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