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PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:56 pm

Welcome to the 2019 edition of PIT Update Discussion Thread. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382445
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:02 pm

So I’ll toss my predictions in here for 2019. In my opinion, there is going to be a lot less craziness like there was over the past two years, as I believe growth may level off a bit. Here’s what I can see happening though:

-AA drops RDU, but DL immediately picks it up.
-BA maybe going 5x weekly by the end of the year for Summer 2020. I’m very intrigued at what effect Brexit may have on the flight (personally, I don’t think much will happen, but it’s something to consider).
-G4 potentially adds one or two routes in 2019. DAB would be my guess, as that has been rumored before.
-Even stronger rumors of Aer Lingus to DUB.
-A surprise equipment upgrade, frequency increase, or new destination by someone. I’m mainly looking at the legacies here.
-WN will continue to stagnate at PIT, although I’ll still leave the door open for a surprise add. Other than that, they’ll just continue to adjust frequency to their “hubs”. STL and TPA are ripe for frequency additions IMO. MSY has to do better or I think they’ll pull the plug on it for good this time.
-And my ultimate wildcard, which is SY entering PIT with scheduled service, likely to Florida or MSP.

There may be a subtraction here or there, but most of the new stuff added between 2015 and 2018 stays status quo.

Also, I’m really hoping for the 911th’s C-17s to finally arrive at some point. Construction on the base appears to be running behind schedule, as we are now entering January and there is a lot of work still going on and no new airlifters based here yet. It’s also a bit odd that there’s been no update whatsoever on progress of the base since last April. FWIW I did see a 911th C-17 and an MC-130J parked on the ramp there a few weeks ago.
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:56 pm

Okay, predictions for this year:

1) Delta takes over PIT-RDU and adds PIT-LAX. There are rumblings of AUS, CVG, SEA, and....MEM (remember it was the absolutely last thing DL dropped from the old NW hub days), but nothing comes of it.
2) Southwest adds...MCI. It's the last vaguely sort of WN hub that's not a hub that's left that wouldn't really be a departure from the norm for them.
3) AA upgrades one of their PIT-MIA departures to a 319.
4) Moxy announces plans to do something from PIT.
5) F9 announces PIT-PHL. Because why not? It makes more sense than some of their other drunken dart board additions.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:47 am

Pitt returning from their bowl game tonight. Omni B772 and an Atlas Air B763 expected to arrive later.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5Y8216
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/OE516
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:23 am

Predictions for 2019:

EI finally adds PIT as a seasonal destination

AA cedes PIT-RDU TO DL

F9 drops PIT altogether

Another carrier hops in on PIT-PHL

AA severely reduces frequency on LGA

AA increases service to MIA

UA makes IAD mainline year round

And finally yet another carrier will attempt to hop into the PIT-CUN market
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JamesRenard
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:45 am

My predictions for 2019:

AA drops JFK and RDU completely, with DL commencing service to the latter

DL also adds BDL to replace the service lost after J1's collapse

WN adds MCI after J1's exit from the market

4B expands its presence at PIT, adding MSS and taking HGR away from 9X

G4 adds AZA and AVL

One carrier adds a Caribbean destination that's currently only served by charter airlines, most likely PUJ
 
N292UX
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:52 am

My predictions:
-AA drops PIT-JFK/RDU, but DL picks it up
-DL adds PIT-LAX
-PIT-MSY becomes year-round (again) on WN
-NK adds PIT-AUS
-UA increases mainline to IAD
-F9 drops PIT-PBI
-AS performs well on PIT-SEA
-G4 adds PIT-LAS
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:45 pm

A couple blurbs from PIT's FB page... terminal designs expected next month, and hints at more China charters this summer.
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Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:15 pm

VIAair is going to add PIT-MEM/BHM
https://www.flyviaair.com/route-map
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:21 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
VIAair is going to add PIT-MEM/BHM
https://www.flyviaair.com/route-map

MEM is no surprise but I would have thought of 20 other cities before BHM. Nice to see 2019 get off to a good start with a new carrier and two new cities.
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:34 pm

N292UX wrote:
My predictions:
-UA increases mainline to IAD

Lemieux wrote:
Predictions for 2019:

UA makes IAD mainline year round

UA is actually pulling mainline off IAD entirely after March 30 and it's all-CRJ7 through the rest of the booking window. Not really surprising considering how abysmal loads were on the mainline flight.

EWR and IAH I think are much more likely to get additional mainline.

flyPIT wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
VIAair is going to add PIT-MEM/BHM
https://www.flyviaair.com/route-map

MEM is no surprise but I would have thought of 20 other cities before BHM. Nice to see 2019 get off to a good start with a new carrier and two new cities.

Both do not appear to be bookable yet on Via Air's site. I assume each will be operated by E145s.

MEM is obvious due to the FedEx ties. BHM is a bit of a reach but still an interesting selection. I wonder when PIT-BHM was last flown? Has to have been a while.
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:56 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
VIAair is going to add PIT-MEM/BHM
https://www.flyviaair.com/route-map

MEM is no surprise but I would have thought of 20 other cities before BHM. Nice to see 2019 get off to a good start with a new carrier and two new cities.


Maybe the real target is PIT-BHM-AUS thru traffic, and any O&D they get to BHM is gravy. I don't think a 145 can make it all the way to AUS nonstop.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:03 pm

Runway28L wrote:
BHM is a bit of a reach but still an interesting selection. I wonder when PIT-BHM was last flown? Has to have been a while.

2002.


GSP psgr wrote:
Maybe the real target is PIT-BHM-AUS thru traffic, and any O&D they get to BHM is gravy. I don't think a 145 can make it all the way to AUS nonstop.

I was thinking through traffic to MOB on the BHM flight and AUS on the MEM flight. PIT-BHM could simply be a matter of aircraft routing so they are selling tickets.
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JamesRenard
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:05 pm

As much as it's great to hear about new airlines and destinations coming to PIT, I'm worried VC is going to be OneJet 2.0.

They just recently added CAE less than two weeks ago, and it looks like they're adding PIT, MEM, BHM and RDU all at once. I feel like they're expanding too rapidly.

They also had their gates taken away at CLT because they hadn't been paying.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:49 pm

JamesRenard wrote:
As much as it's great to hear about new airlines and destinations coming to PIT, I'm worried VC is going to be OneJet 2.0.

They just recently added CAE less than two weeks ago, and it looks like they're adding PIT, MEM, BHM and RDU all at once. I feel like they're expanding too rapidly.

They also had their gates taken away at CLT because they hadn't been paying.

Via has been around since 2013/2014 or so. They started with their own 135 certificate and are operating part 121 now. As long as they don’t fall victim to a major pilot staffing issue, they should be fine.
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Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:04 pm

My prediction for 2019 is:
WW only comes back if they get a plane and they serve PIT seasonal
BA moves to 5 flights a week by the end of the summer with off and on upgrades to 787-9 for business flights since it only has 2 more seats
WN picks up SAN sometime in the summer
DL starts flying to LAX, RDU, and AUS
AA drops RDU but goes up to 3 daily 175s on MIA flight, increase capacity on DFW flight and PHL
AS upgrades SEA flight to 737-900 full time
EL(if WW drops PIT entirely) announces flights to Dublin in 2020
Allegiant adds more flights to PIT, most likely and my favorite option DAB ( a lot of Pittsburgers fly to and from Daytona when I go home from college)
China eastern does more charter flights
United adds more main line flights (ORD and EWR)
Now for fun
Hawaiian airlines starts flights from HNL to PIT
Qatar starts flights to Doha
Cathy Pacific starts cargo flights from Hong Kong
 
N292UX
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:09 pm

Runway28L wrote:
N292UX wrote:
My predictions:
-UA increases mainline to IAD

Lemieux wrote:
Predictions for 2019:

UA makes IAD mainline year round

UA is actually pulling mainline off IAD entirely after March 30 and it's all-CRJ7 through the rest of the booking window. Not really surprising considering how abysmal loads were on the mainline flight.

EWR and IAH I think are much more likely to get additional mainline.

flyPIT wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
VIAair is going to add PIT-MEM/BHM
https://www.flyviaair.com/route-map

MEM is no surprise but I would have thought of 20 other cities before BHM. Nice to see 2019 get off to a good start with a new carrier and two new cities.

Both do not appear to be bookable yet on Via Air's site. I assume each will be operated by E145s.

MEM is obvious due to the FedEx ties. BHM is a bit of a reach but still an interesting selection. I wonder when PIT-BHM was last flown? Has to have been a while.

I do somewhat recall some of the IAD-PIT mainline loads being <60% at times. Considering how close PIT really is to IAD, UA may want to focus on adding mainline routes to other cities, like MSP and MCI. I think that could also apply to EWR too, but considering that UA wants EWR to be more O&D, I think there's more than enough O&D between PIT and NYC to fill a few mainline flights. I think routes like IAD-PIT fit the mold for 70 seaters like CRJ-700s. I think IAH should, and will get more mainline metal. I wouldn't be surprised if 1-2 of the PIT-IAH frequencies get the up to mainline.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:36 am

My amateur 2019 prediction:
PIT breaks 10-million passengers. A 7% monthly average growth over 2018 likely year-end passenger numbers would do it.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:45 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
VIAair is going to add PIT-MEM/BHM
https://www.flyviaair.com/route-map


They announced intentions to serve PIT about a month ago, look for more destinations from PIT to be announced. PIT will be a focus city for VC like SFB and AUS.

My 2019 predictions:
*G4 adds more routes - DAB/FLL/AZA/LAS/EWR
*DL adds RDU
*AA drops RDU and sticks only to the hubs
*WN adds Saturday only service to SAN
*UA no major changes
*AS no changes
*WW will remain
*F9 drops PIT all together
*NK adds MSY/AUS/ORD/PBI/JAX
*VC adds more destinations
*Announcement of Moxy having a presence in PIT
*Some more cargo frequencies
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steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:00 pm

Gsasala wrote:
My prediction for 2019 is:
WW only comes back if they get a plane and they serve PIT seasonal
BA moves to 5 flights a week by the end of the summer with off and on upgrades to 787-9 for business flights since it only has 2 more seats
WN picks up SAN sometime in the summer
DL starts flying to LAX, RDU, and AUS
AA drops RDU but goes up to 3 daily 175s on MIA flight, increase capacity on DFW flight and PHL
AS upgrades SEA flight to 737-900 full time
EL(if WW drops PIT entirely) announces flights to Dublin in 2020
Allegiant adds more flights to PIT, most likely and my favorite option DAB ( a lot of Pittsburgers fly to and from Daytona when I go home from college)
China eastern does more charter flights
United adds more main line flights (ORD and EWR)
Now for fun
Hawaiian airlines starts flights from HNL to PIT
Qatar starts flights to Doha
Cathy Pacific starts cargo flights from Hong Kong

I would say the predictions regarding respective DL and BA service seem to be the most probable with AS upgauging and Allegiant being a close second. WN hasn't really done too much lately other than their tweaking with existing service.
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:07 pm

steeler83 wrote:
Gsasala wrote:
My prediction for 2019 is:
WW only comes back if they get a plane and they serve PIT seasonal
BA moves to 5 flights a week by the end of the summer with off and on upgrades to 787-9 for business flights since it only has 2 more seats
WN picks up SAN sometime in the summer
DL starts flying to LAX, RDU, and AUS
AA drops RDU but goes up to 3 daily 175s on MIA flight, increase capacity on DFW flight and PHL
AS upgrades SEA flight to 737-900 full time
EL(if WW drops PIT entirely) announces flights to Dublin in 2020
Allegiant adds more flights to PIT, most likely and my favorite option DAB ( a lot of Pittsburgers fly to and from Daytona when I go home from college)
China eastern does more charter flights
United adds more main line flights (ORD and EWR)
Now for fun
Hawaiian airlines starts flights from HNL to PIT
Qatar starts flights to Doha
Cathy Pacific starts cargo flights from Hong Kong

I would say the predictions regarding respective DL and BA service seem to be the most probable with AS upgauging and Allegiant being a close second. WN hasn't really done too much lately other than their tweaking with existing service.

I think DL is pretty upset with PIT over BA/CDG. I think that will reduce their appetite for PIT.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:09 pm

Gsasala wrote:
EL(if WW drops PIT entirely) announces flights to Dublin in 2020

IATA CODE EL
Ellinair ELLINAIR HELLAS Greece

EI?
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:05 pm

^^ I myself confuse EI with EL occasionally, but I knew what he meant. Enilria, that is a good point, but I doubt DL will base any decisions regarding PIT service based solely on that. Then again...
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Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:10 pm

I'll go with my predictions:

(1) Annual Growth somewhere around 5% - Total Passengers 10,290,000
(2) AS - adds SAN (Longshot but I can hope)
(3) DL adds LAX (A legacy has to get into the game here)

Overall, expecting a fairly quiet year, with growing LF %'s. I for one hope that EI doesn't jump on the bandwagon at the moment, I really want to see solid #'s on the BA and DE flights.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:17 pm

enilria wrote:
I think DL is pretty upset with PIT over BA/CDG. I think that will reduce their appetite for PIT.


Respectfully disagree. As much as I love this airport....I highly doubt anybody on the DL management team lost any sleep over BA coming to PIT. Furthermore, that it will not be a basis for future route planning.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:17 pm

Looks like DL had an A221 scheduled on CVG-PIT-CVG today but cancelled.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/DL9964

Keep your eyes peeled for potential proving runs stopping by here.
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:36 pm

enilria wrote:
I think DL is pretty upset with PIT over BA/CDG. I think that will reduce their appetite for PIT.


So much so they added PIT-SLC, added two additional daily flights to BOS, added an additional frequency to LGA for the second time in recent history, and upgauged existing routes such as offering PIT-MSP 4x daily with all mainline equipment in the summer.


Delta does not run their business on emotion.
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Jshank83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:42 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
enilria wrote:
I think DL is pretty upset with PIT over BA/CDG. I think that will reduce their appetite for PIT.


Respectfully disagree. As much as I love this airport....I highly doubt anybody on the DL management team lost any sleep over BA coming to PIT. Furthermore, that it will not be a basis for future route planning.


My bigger issue was that the poster said they will be adding 3 new destinations. Maybe one I can see, but three seems like a longshot.
 
Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:48 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Clipper2Heavy wrote:
enilria wrote:
I think DL is pretty upset with PIT over BA/CDG. I think that will reduce their appetite for PIT.


Respectfully disagree. As much as I love this airport....I highly doubt anybody on the DL management team lost any sleep over BA coming to PIT. Furthermore, that it will not be a basis for future route planning.


My bigger issue was that the poster said they will be adding 3 new destinations. Maybe one I can see, but three seems like a longshot.


I'd say both comments, the OP and the response, were stretches. I agree that those 3 adds by DL would be a long-shot. I also think that the DL route planning department hasn't crossed PIT off their list based on BA and cancelling the CDG flight.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:02 pm

"Airport's terminal modernization will kick off in 2019"

"While it will be several years before it comes to fruition, 2019 will be a huge year for the development of two major building projects at Pittsburgh International Airport.

Looming large is the $1.1 billion terminal redevelopment, which will see the now 26-year-old terminal replaced by a smaller, state-of-the-art facility that bows to the reality that Pittsburgh International hasn’t been a U.S. Airways hub for more than a decade. But the new airside terminal, which will see the number of gates go from 75 to 51, will be built for Pittsburgh International Airport’s future.

But it won’t just be the airside terminal that will be built from scratch, right next to the existing one. A new set of roads, a ground transportation center and parking garage will be constructed at the same time, and by the end of it — scheduled for 2023 — travelers will be going through a whole new Pittsburgh International Airport.

The work began in earnest in 2018, with the selection in July of architectural and engineering design firms Gensler + HDR in association with Luis Vidal + Architects. The firms’ design for the terminal will be released in the early part of 2019, with more detailed schematics by the summer and groundbreaking in late 2019.

“We’ve really been focusing on building a team and building all of the processes and procedures and all the things that need to be put into place to do a $1.1 billion program of this nature,” said Paul Hoback, SVP of engineering, planning and capital development at Pittsburgh International Airport.

That team will be focused on the terminal building.

A separate team, design and project management and construction, will focus on the ground side construction that will include the ground transportation center, parking lots and garages, and roads. A contract will be awarded on the ground side soon.

“The landside designer will be taking on that scope of work as soon as we bring them on,” Hoback said.

Some of the early visible stages of the terminal replacement are already being seen: The Allegheny County Airport Authority has been moving airlines from the West Ramp, which will continue into early 2019.

Then the jet bridges and passenger ramps will be removed. Fencing around the West Ramp, which is where the new terminal will be built, will be placed late in the year. There also are geotechnical boring and ground-penetrating radar observations being done.

“Passengers when they look out the windows, they might see some of this activity going on over the next several months, even before we start construction,” Hoback said.

But the whole process is going to play out between now and 2023, even with construction going full blast, with as minimal disruption to passenger and airport operations as possible.

Hoback said that’s by design — there will be as few interruptions as possible as the current airside terminal will be operational while the new one is built next door.

“One of the main and primary goals of this project is to minimize any impact to operations,” Hoback said. “There will be some impacts with the construction as we upgrade the infrastructure and make some changes to the airside.”

It will help, at least on the airside part, that the old landside terminal will be operating until the day the new terminal opens.

There might be some disruptions on the ground side, but Hoback promises that will be minimal too. There will be a detailed, well-communicated plan on the ground side as the project continues.

“I don’t see many impacts from that perspective,” Hoback said. “Pretty much the entire site can be constructed with almost no impact to today’s operations.”

Early December also saw the ground-breaking of the Pittsburgh Airport Innovation Campus, which will be constructed on the land above the current parking lots and then also in some of the extended lots over the next several years. But the work there will not be done full scale until there are tenants for the buildings that will be constructed.
"

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2019/01/02/airports-terminal-modernization-will-kick-off-in.html
FLYi
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:26 pm

flyPIT wrote:
enilria wrote:
I think DL is pretty upset with PIT over BA/CDG. I think that will reduce their appetite for PIT.


So much so they added PIT-SLC, added two additional daily flights to BOS, added an additional frequency to LGA for the second time in recent history, and upgauged existing routes such as offering PIT-MSP 4x daily with all mainline equipment in the summer.


Delta does not run their business on emotion.


A lot of those were announced before DL cut PIT-CDG, or were competitive moves to hurt another carrier.

Although I agree with the crux of what you are saying

JamesRenard wrote:
DL also adds BDL to replace the service lost after J1's collapse


Question, why would DL start PIT-BDL when they don't fly PIT-LAX/SEA/CVG/RDU/e.t.c?

Gsasala wrote:
EL(if WW drops PIT entirely) announces flights to Dublin in 2020

Lemieux wrote:
EI finally adds PIT as a seasonal destination


Don't you think EI would wait to see how BA performs for at least a year?
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enilria
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:26 pm

flyPIT wrote:
enilria wrote:
I think DL is pretty upset with PIT over BA/CDG. I think that will reduce their appetite for PIT.


So much so they added PIT-SLC, added two additional daily flights to BOS, added an additional frequency to LGA for the second time in recent history, and upgauged existing routes such as offering PIT-MSP 4x daily with all mainline equipment in the summer.


Delta does not run their business on emotion.

I'm saying they are less likely now to add routes "for" PIT, meaning routes that support the PIT point-of-sale, like RDU. BOS was clearly added because they are having a point of sale war with B6 in BOS.

Your timing is wrong on SLC. They announced that in Jan 2018.
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/p ... 1801300100
They didn't announce they were exiting PIT-CDG until August.
https://triblive.com/local/allegheny/13 ... -next-year
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:41 pm

enilria wrote:
I'm saying they are less likely now to add routes "for" PIT, meaning routes that support the PIT point-of-sale, like RDU.

Why? Because you think DL is butt hurt that BA is starting PIT-LHR?

enilria wrote:
BOS was clearly added because they are having a point of sale war with B6 in BOS.

Regardless, PIT-BOS was added and increased. The flights go both ways. DL could have used those assets elsewhere but didn't.

As for the timing of PIT-SLC the fact remains that DL added the route after they pulled PIT-CDG. Just because an airline announces something doesn't mean it has to be set in stone. This notion that PIT is less relevant to DL because of BA doesn't hold water, at least domestically.
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:54 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
enilria wrote:
I think DL is pretty upset with PIT over BA/CDG. I think that will reduce their appetite for PIT.


Respectfully disagree. As much as I love this airport....I highly doubt anybody on the DL management team lost any sleep over BA coming to PIT. Furthermore, that it will not be a basis for future route planning.

Agree with Clipper. DL knew damn well for a long time that a UK non-stop was a top goal of the ACAA.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:24 pm

ABTA (Association of British Travel Agents) named Pittsburgh one of five global destinations to watch:

"PITTSBURGH, USA
After the financial crisis 10 years ago, Pittsburgh has experienced economic transformation. It now excels in innovation, IT, life sciences, communications, healthcare, research and energy solutions. More than 100 global multi-billion-dollar firms are based here. British Airways is launching flights from London Heathrow from April 2, 2019.
"
http://abtamag.com/2019/01/02/business-travel-report-new-year-new-trends/
FLYi
 
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enilria
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:00 pm

flyPIT wrote:
As for the timing of PIT-SLC the fact remains that DL added the route after they pulled PIT-CDG. Just because an airline announces something doesn't mean it has to be set in stone. This notion that PIT is less relevant to DL because of BA doesn't hold water, at least domestically.

LOL. Non-ULCCs don't drop routes right before they start. You must know that. Everything has a lead time. Even WOW had a 60-90 day lead on their recent drops and they are in deep financial difficulty. The announcement date is obviously when the decision was made.
 
Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 59
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:13 pm

enilria wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
As for the timing of PIT-SLC the fact remains that DL added the route after they pulled PIT-CDG. Just because an airline announces something doesn't mean it has to be set in stone. This notion that PIT is less relevant to DL because of BA doesn't hold water, at least domestically.

LOL. Non-ULCCs don't drop routes right before they start. You must know that. Everything has a lead time. Even WOW had a 60-90 day lead on their recent drops and they are in deep financial difficulty. The announcement date is obviously when the decision was made.


enilria...I enjoy your weekly posts and usually see value in your thoughts and logic. On this account,...if you are truly hypothesizing that because of BA coming into the market and cancellation of the CDG flight, that this has put PIT on some sort of mythical 'DL NAUGHTY LIST' when it comes to ANY new routes....welp (a new word for 2019 according to Merriam-Webster) I question your motive, because logic is lacking. If DL ran their airline in such a manner, they'd look more like F9 than the legacy carrier they are.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:23 pm

enilria wrote:
LOL. Non-ULCCs don't drop routes right before they start. You must know that. Everything has a lead time. Even WOW had a 60-90 day lead on their recent drops and they are in deep financial difficulty. The announcement date is obviously when the decision was made.

The decision was made well before the announcement date actually. But that does not mean any airline has to follow through with it. Do you really think a legacy never cancelled a route before it began?

Regardless, if it wasn't for this "lead time" you are implying DL might not have started PIT-SLC because BA announced PIT-LHR. LOL indeed.
FLYi
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2370
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:25 pm

One question I will bring up.

Since TATL is moving from DL to AA, how many FF will follow? If a good chunk of the business community moves to AA then I could see DL pulling back, since their overall demand lessens. AA would then grow in this case though, so maybe they would add more. Not that I have any clue what will happen with it, but that is one scenario I could see playing out. If it is the case then I would think DL would be less likely to add anything. Maybe it won't have much impact though.
 
Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:35 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
One question I will bring up.

Since TATL is moving from DL to AA, how many FF will follow? If a good chunk of the business community moves to AA then I could see DL pulling back, since their overall demand lessens. AA would then grow in this case though, so maybe they would add more. Not that I have any clue what will happen with it, but that is one scenario I could see playing out. If it is the case then I would think DL would be less likely to add anything. Maybe it won't have much impact though.


Interesting thought...Few things I would say (Open for Discussion)

(1) DL wasn't connecting passengers through PIT to CDG, so FF's, in my view don't factor in the discussion
(2) PIT was legacy more AA FF heavy
(3) Nobody wants to connect through CDG...that was all O&D
 
Jshank83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:40 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
One question I will bring up.

Since TATL is moving from DL to AA, how many FF will follow? If a good chunk of the business community moves to AA then I could see DL pulling back, since their overall demand lessens. AA would then grow in this case though, so maybe they would add more. Not that I have any clue what will happen with it, but that is one scenario I could see playing out. If it is the case then I would think DL would be less likely to add anything. Maybe it won't have much impact though.


Interesting thought...Few things I would say (Open for Discussion)

(1) DL wasn't connecting passengers through PIT to CDG, so FF's, in my view don't factor in the discussion
(2) PIT was legacy more AA FF heavy
(3) Nobody wants to connect through CDG...that was all O&D


I was talking about DL FF who live/work in PIT. So O&D demand. You all would know the numbers there better than me but I was talking about people who live/work in PIT now switching allegiances from DL to AA because of the change. Will businesses change their travel from DL to AA? I assume some will, I just don't know how many it will be and how much it will impact each airline.
 
Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:47 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Clipper2Heavy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
One question I will bring up.

Since TATL is moving from DL to AA, how many FF will follow? If a good chunk of the business community moves to AA then I could see DL pulling back, since their overall demand lessens. AA would then grow in this case though, so maybe they would add more. Not that I have any clue what will happen with it, but that is one scenario I could see playing out. If it is the case then I would think DL would be less likely to add anything. Maybe it won't have much impact though.


Interesting thought...Few things I would say (Open for Discussion)

(1) DL wasn't connecting passengers through PIT to CDG, so FF's, in my view don't factor in the discussion
(2) PIT was legacy more AA FF heavy
(3) Nobody wants to connect through CDG...that was all O&D


I was talking about DL FF who live/work in PIT. So O&D demand. You all would know the numbers there better than me but I was talking about people who live/work in PIT now switching allegiances from DL to AA because of the change. Will businesses change their travel from DL to AA? I assume some will, I just don't know how many it will be and how much it will impact each airline.


I guess I'd say...any FF base changes...would be Marginal. Domestic...absolutely no change. International...again, marginal increase for AA/BA/OW.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:01 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:

(1) DL wasn't connecting passengers through PIT to CDG, so FF's, in my view don't factor in the discussion
(2) PIT was legacy more AA FF heavy
(3) Nobody wants to connect through CDG...that was all O&D


PIT-CDG certainly was not all O&D... roughly 2/3 connected there.

I think too much is being made of FF loyalty especially considering WN and AA have fairly similar overall market share in PIT with UA and DL not far behind. Personally I have accounts with all of them and book my travel based on fares, schedules, and routing instead of chasing status.
FLYi
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:03 pm

This whole thing about DL to CDG (and Delta at PIT in general) is so overblown.

I can tell you BA was not the only reason DL cut PIT-CDG. Yields on the flight were already low and most importantly, it was starting to cannibalize traffic from DTW/ATL/NYC-CDG due to the low fares. There were already issues that were plaguing the flight, but BA was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The argument that DL has a grudge against PIT for getting BA makes little sense either, especially when BOS and LGA are seeing frequency increases, MSP goes all-mainline this summer, CUN is getting upgraded to a B739 for peak, and weekend-only MCO is being brought back this summer. If DL was unhappy with PIT, we would be seeing it. However, that is not the case at the moment.

And no offense, but some of these predictions for DL at PIT are a bit outrageous. RDU is really the only one that makes sense if AA drops out. Other than that, they are unlikely to add LAX and SEA because DL is tight on gates at each and any addition would be logistically difficult. CVG is also unlikely to happen since DL has way less CRJ2 flying than they did when they last operated the route. AUS and BDL are extremely unlikely; we've hardly seen proof that DL is going to build up AUS. And if they end up doing so, PIT will not be one of the first routes they add out of there.

Really the only things likely to happen for Delta at PIT is RDU if AA quits and maybe the introduction of A321 service from ATL or MSP. We'll also likely find out that PIT will eventually be one of the very last stations to get MD-88 and MD-90 flying.
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 271
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:12 pm

Runway28L wrote:
I can tell you BA was not the only reason DL cut PIT-CDG. Yields on the flight were already low and most importantly, it was starting to cannibalize traffic from DTW/ATL/NYC-CDG due to the low fares. There were already issues that were plaguing the flight, but BA was the straw that broke the camel's back.


I feel like DL also up-gauged the route to a 767 because they wanted to use the 757 elsewhere on better performing routes. With all the expansion of DeltaOne transcon flying they need to get 757s from somewhere. The larger equipment when all this other stuff was happening didn't help that's for sure.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:24 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
I can tell you BA was not the only reason DL cut PIT-CDG. Yields on the flight were already low and most importantly, it was starting to cannibalize traffic from DTW/ATL/NYC-CDG due to the low fares. There were already issues that were plaguing the flight, but BA was the straw that broke the camel's back.


I feel like DL also up-gauged the route to a 767 because they wanted to use the 757 elsewhere on better performing routes. With all the expansion of DeltaOne transcon flying they need to get 757s from somewhere. The larger equipment when all this other stuff was happening didn't help that's for sure.

This right here is why I think DL switched PIT to a B763, so I 100% agree with you.

DL reallocated a lot of 75S flying over the past 1-2 years. They added BOS-DUB/SFO, DCA-LAX, upgraded BOS-LAX, added more Delta One to JFK-SAN/SEA/SLC/LAS, and now they are adding BOS-EDI on a 75S in 2019. DL had to start pulling 752s with J from elsewhere in their network, which is why RDU-CDG was quickly upgraded to a B763, ATL-BSB got cut, JFK-DUB/CPH got upgraded, PHL-CDG got cut, and PIT-CDG was upgraded.
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dabpit
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:03 pm

Via Air has removed Pittsburgh from their route map. It seems they updated the route map too soon.
Carpe Diem
 
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enilria
Posts: 8925
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:58 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
enilria wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
As for the timing of PIT-SLC the fact remains that DL added the route after they pulled PIT-CDG. Just because an airline announces something doesn't mean it has to be set in stone. This notion that PIT is less relevant to DL because of BA doesn't hold water, at least domestically.

LOL. Non-ULCCs don't drop routes right before they start. You must know that. Everything has a lead time. Even WOW had a 60-90 day lead on their recent drops and they are in deep financial difficulty. The announcement date is obviously when the decision was made.


enilria...I enjoy your weekly posts and usually see value in your thoughts and logic. On this account,...if you are truly hypothesizing that because of BA coming into the market and cancellation of the CDG flight, that this has put PIT on some sort of mythical 'DL NAUGHTY LIST' when it comes to ANY new routes....welp (a new word for 2019 according to Merriam-Webster) I question your motive, because logic is lacking. If DL ran their airline in such a manner, they'd look more like F9 than the legacy carrier they are.

Getting any sort of major business commitment to a community is often about building a relationship with the company by the economic development team. This was definitely a negative to that relationship. It's too soon to know how much of a bump in the road it is, but any new route represents a risk and any business has numerous options for where they can place an asset. It doesn't take much to be bumped from the best opportunity and get the route, to #2 and not get the route.
 
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Lemieux
Posts: 137
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:06 am

dabpit wrote:
Via Air has removed Pittsburgh from their route map. It seems they updated the route map too soon.

Not that it means anything at all given the website, but Via Air has also disappeared from PIT’s Wikipedia page
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JamesRenard
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:27 am

Lemieux wrote:
dabpit wrote:
Via Air has removed Pittsburgh from their route map. It seems they updated the route map too soon.

Not that it means anything at all given the website, but Via Air has also disappeared from PIT’s Wikipedia page

Given that we didn't have any start dates, it shouldn't have been on PIT's wiki page to begin with.

Midwestindy wrote:
JamesRenard wrote:
DL also adds BDL to replace the service lost after J1's collapse


Question, why would DL start PIT-BDL when they don't fly PIT-LAX/SEA/CVG/RDU/e.t.c?

My reasoning is as follows:
LAX: already served by WN and NK
SEA: already served by AS
CVG: lost DL service to PIT already, and is also relatively close
RDU: already served by AA, but I did mention that if they drop RDU, DL would pick it up

A plus for BDL is that it already has DL service to non-hub airports like CLE and RDU.
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