jplatts
Posts: 2201
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:26 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
flycmh2009 wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:

United doesn’t seem to like mid-major airports in general. Most airports of CMH’s size seem to be either LCC quick-in/out focus cities and/or half baked AA/DL operations. Oddly, United does a lot of work at smaller regional airports that are too small for the LCC 737/A320, but not these kinds of airports.


Half-baked really is the best way to describe it. While it's nice DEN is 100% mainline now, the rest is a mess. Almost entirely 50-seaters to the largest hub and way too many regional partners in general to even come close to providing a consistent product. I'll only take them out if it's on a ERJ170 or above. And even that's a stretch as I'm typically on WN anyway.


I'm curious to the market dynamics which result in CVG having mainline to IAH and IAD and PIT to those two plus EWR, but none to any of those from CMH.


One big difference between CMH-WAS, CVG-WAS, and PIT-WAS is that WN has nonstop service to both DCA and BWI in the DC market from CMH, whereas BWI is the only DC airport that WN serves nonstop from CVG and PIT.

One big difference between CVG-IAH/HOU, CMH-IAH/HOU, and PIT-IAH/HOU is that there are currently no LCC's serving IAH or HOU nonstop from CVG, whereas WN currently serves HOU nonstop from CMH and PIT. Another big difference is that all of DL's CVG-IAH nonstops are operated on regional jets, whereas WN currently operates its CMH-HOU nonstops on 737 MAX 8 planes and its PIT-HOU nonstops on 737-700 planes.

PIT also had more O&D demand to IAH/HOU than CVG or CMH did in Q2 2018.

For comparison, here is the average number of passengers per day for CVG-IAH/HOU, CMH-IAH/HOU, and PIT-IAH/HOU in Q2 2018:
CVG-IAH/HOU - 406 passengers/day
CMH-IAH/HOU - 387 passengers/day
PIT-IAH/HOU - 654 passengers/day
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2237
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:38 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
flycmh2009 wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:

United doesn’t seem to like mid-major airports in general. Most airports of CMH’s size seem to be either LCC quick-in/out focus cities and/or half baked AA/DL operations. Oddly, United does a lot of work at smaller regional airports that are too small for the LCC 737/A320, but not these kinds of airports.


Half-baked really is the best way to describe it. While it's nice DEN is 100% mainline now, the rest is a mess. Almost entirely 50-seaters to the largest hub and way too many regional partners in general to even come close to providing a consistent product. I'll only take them out if it's on a ERJ170 or above. And even that's a stretch as I'm typically on WN anyway.


I'm curious to the market dynamics which result in CVG having mainline to IAH and IAD and PIT to those two plus EWR, but none to any of those from CMH.


If I'm not mistaken, UA pounced pretty quickly on the fracking industry out of Western PA/Eastern OH and served that market via PIT-IAH. UA also was quick to upgauge and add in both markets after their respective hub downsizing/closure. I think the bigger question is why UA has been so slow to add from CMH, especially given their higher than normal load factors and increases in other peer cities (e.g. SFO finally comes online this June after literally every other market this side of the Mississippi already received the service). My guess is yields, even though it seems UA benefits greatly from ANA and the Honda operation in Marysville, but that's just conjecture. Likewise, I am glad that DEN is consistently all-mainline, that route fluctuated with E70s, CR7s, and even ER4s for way too long. IAH seems to be consistently all E-Jet now; while not mainline, it's better than the ER4s that recently frequented the route.
712,722,732/733/734/735/736/73G/738/739,744,752/753,762/763/764,772/773,788/789,318,319,320,321,332,333,343,346,380,D93,M88,M90,M11,F100,B11,L10,146
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Pudelhund
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:55 am

One interesting Delta perk we are getting this year because of the SLC nonstop is that we also get some interesting west coast one-stops, including Santa Barbara which is new for SLC in August. Makes exploring the western part of the country easier for me as a Delta FF.
 
cvgComair
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:28 am

Looks like WN's CVG-MCO is loaded through the entire schedule instead of just seasonal. I'd like to see the route daily eventually, but definitely a good sign. Also nice to see more 738s appearing on the CVG-PHX/DEN flights.

June
CVG-BWI: 78%
BWI-CVG: 78%
CVG-MDW: 83%
MDW-CVG: 77%

July
CVG-BWI: 74%
BWI-CVG: 75%
CVG-MDW: 75%
MDW-CVG: 74%

August
CVG-BWI: 68%
BWI-CVG: 68%
CVG-DEN: 88%
DEN-CVG: 89%
CVG-MDW: 70%
MDW-CVG: 67%

September
CVG-BWI: 69%
BWI-CVG: 65%
CVG-DEN: 81%
DEN-CVG: 87%
CVG-MDW: 64%
MDW-CVG: 62%
 
Springs1816
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:54 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Looks like WN's CVG-MCO is loaded through the entire schedule instead of just seasonal. I'd like to see the route daily eventually, but definitely a good sign. Also nice to see more 738s appearing on the CVG-PHX/DEN flights.

June
CVG-BWI: 78%
BWI-CVG: 78%
CVG-MDW: 83%
MDW-CVG: 77%

July
CVG-BWI: 74%
BWI-CVG: 75%
CVG-MDW: 75%
MDW-CVG: 74%

August
CVG-BWI: 68%
BWI-CVG: 68%
CVG-DEN: 88%
DEN-CVG: 89%
CVG-MDW: 70%
MDW-CVG: 67%

September
CVG-BWI: 69%
BWI-CVG: 65%
CVG-DEN: 81%
DEN-CVG: 87%
CVG-MDW: 64%
MDW-CVG: 62%


That DEN route looks like a bottomless pit of demand. Hopefully the PHX goes yearly. Would like to see another WN city or two added at some point.
 
cvgComair
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:03 pm

CVG-BOS gets a 2nd daily B738 effective June 9. Interestingly, they are uguaging the 2nd/3rd flights of the day, previously they operated mainline on the 3rd or 3rd/4th frequencies.

CVG-MSP gets 2xB738 effective Sept 2, up from an A319/A320 combo.
 
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Harvestman
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:26 pm

Saw that N331AZ came into CVG from ILN at 21:45 on January 31. Undergoing maintenance at Wilmington I assume?

Edit: also saw the aforementioned demolition at ILN earlier in the month and snapped a photo. Was wondering which buildings were being worked on.
 
topguncnod
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:44 am

cvgComair wrote:
CVG-BOS gets a 2nd daily B738 effective June 9. Interestingly, they are uguaging the 2nd/3rd flights of the day, previously they operated mainline on the 3rd or 3rd/4th frequencies.

CVG-MSP gets 2xB738 effective Sept 2, up from an A319/A320 combo.



Re- CVG-BOS on the 738, it’s likely due to more international connections as they build up the trans Atlantic flights out of BOS. More people can connect in case of delays.... AMS connections are easier.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:22 am

Springs1816 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Looks like WN's CVG-MCO is loaded through the entire schedule instead of just seasonal. I'd like to see the route daily eventually, but definitely a good sign. Also nice to see more 738s appearing on the CVG-PHX/DEN flights.

June
CVG-BWI: 78%
BWI-CVG: 78%
CVG-MDW: 83%
MDW-CVG: 77%

July
CVG-BWI: 74%
BWI-CVG: 75%
CVG-MDW: 75%
MDW-CVG: 74%

August
CVG-BWI: 68%
BWI-CVG: 68%
CVG-DEN: 88%
DEN-CVG: 89%
CVG-MDW: 70%
MDW-CVG: 67%

September
CVG-BWI: 69%
BWI-CVG: 65%
CVG-DEN: 81%
DEN-CVG: 87%
CVG-MDW: 64%
MDW-CVG: 62%


That DEN route looks like a bottomless pit of demand. Hopefully the PHX goes yearly. Would like to see another WN city or two added at some point.


You're not kidding- CVG having five airlines on the route is remarkable.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
cvgComair
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:12 pm

United's CVG-IAH mainline will return on June 6th and run through August 19th. 1x/day A319.

topguncnod wrote:
Re- CVG-BOS on the 738, it’s likely due to more international connections as they build up the trans Atlantic flights out of BOS. More people can connect in case of delays.... AMS connections are easier.

They frequently market CVG-AMS/LHR as 1-stop through BOS, so that would make sense.
 
miaami
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:57 pm

AA at CMH has some changes starting in May.

CMH-DFW down to 4 mainline flights
CMH-ORD downgauges 2 738s to Eagle
CMH-MIA back to 3 flights after being reduced for the month of APR to 2
CMH-LGA upgauge 1 of 6 flights from Eagle to mainline E-190
CMH-JFK upgauge to E-175


I'm curious if there will be additional changes to the summer schedule starting in June.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:18 pm

miaami wrote:
AA at CMH has some changes starting in May.

CMH-DFW down to 4 mainline flights
CMH-ORD downgauges 2 738s to Eagle
CMH-MIA back to 3 flights after being reduced for the month of APR to 2
CMH-LGA upgauge 1 of 6 flights from Eagle to mainline E-190
CMH-JFK upgauge to E-175


I'm curious if there will be additional changes to the summer schedule starting in June.


Boy, I'd have bet the farm on DL being the one to start CMH-LGA mainline given all their flights having two classes. I'm curious to see if CMH-ORD later gets that mainline back.

AA did some trimming at DAY as well. Haven't looked yet but I'm wondering if some of that may be due to upgauges with CR7s and CR9s running PHL and DCA. US ran an E170 on DAY-DCA during a couple summers.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:48 am

Comparing tomorrow to May 6th (the day the CMH changes take effect):
DAY-PHL stays at 4x and upgauges a CRJ to CR7 in May.
DAY-DCA stays at 3x but one segment apparently gets ^that^ CRJ.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
cvgComair
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:17 pm

Ultimate will begin the triangle LUK-CLT-PDK and LUK-PDK-CLT flights beginning March 18:

Plane #1
0700-0805: LUK-PDK
0835-0920: PDK-CLT
1430-1516: CLT-PDK
1545-1650: PDK-LUK

Plane #2
0625-0730: LUK-CLT
0815-0901: CLT-PDK
1600-1645: PDK-CLT
1725-1831: CLT-LUK

This is definitely a nice way to increase utilization of the fleet, especially as they look to add more aircraft and routes. I think LUK-BNA-MEM would be a perfect triangle route.
 
flyCMH
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:04 pm

miaami wrote:
AA at CMH has some changes starting in May.

CMH-DFW down to 4 mainline flights
CMH-ORD downgauges 2 738s to Eagle
CMH-MIA back to 3 flights after being reduced for the month of APR to 2
CMH-LGA upgauge 1 of 6 flights from Eagle to mainline E-190
CMH-JFK upgauge to E-175


I'm curious if there will be additional changes to the summer schedule starting in June.


The CMH-DFW route generally goes back up to 5x daily in June. I'm not sure why they plan it at 5x daily in May every year when it always ends up being 4 when the schedule is finalized.

Interesting that AA rotates mainline around so much lately for destinations East of the Mississippi (E90 to PHL and 319 to CLT last year, 738 to ORD and E90 to LGA so far this year). Hopefully they keep cycling them in, but it would be nice to see more consistent mainline on some of these routes. Regardless, the JFK upgauge is nice, as is PHL going all-E75 and LAX staying a double daily. ORD, while loosing mainline, sees more E75s than CR7s. Bummed that MIA remains all-ER4 - I guess that means more bulked-out cargo bins coming back up from MIA.
Last edited by flyCMH on Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
712,722,732/733/734/735/736/73G/738/739,744,752/753,762/763/764,772/773,788/789,318,319,320,321,332,333,343,346,380,D93,M88,M90,M11,F100,B11,L10,146
CR1/CR2/CR7/CR9,E35/40/45/70/75/90,EM2,SF3,ATR,AT7,J41,DH1/3/4
 
flyCMH
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:09 pm

Also, not sure how reliable the schedule is this far out, but CMH-SFO is now showing as a A320 in June. If so, hopefully that means bookings are doing well. It's a wash as far as the station goes though, as now CMH-DEN shows 1x 320 and 1x 319 as opposed to double 320.
712,722,732/733/734/735/736/73G/738/739,744,752/753,762/763/764,772/773,788/789,318,319,320,321,332,333,343,346,380,D93,M88,M90,M11,F100,B11,L10,146
CR1/CR2/CR7/CR9,E35/40/45/70/75/90,EM2,SF3,ATR,AT7,J41,DH1/3/4
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:34 pm

I am considering status challenging United from Delta because of the SFO route. I fly out west often for work and also I love California vacations. If United also did LAX nonstop or Delta SFO nonstop (unlikely), that would sway or solidify my loyalty.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:38 pm

Behind a paywall, but an article about traffic at DAY last year: https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news ... j=86470361

Pudelhund wrote:
I am considering status challenging United from Delta because of the SFO route. I fly out west often for work and also I love California vacations. If United also did LAX nonstop or Delta SFO nonstop (unlikely), that would sway or solidify my loyalty.


DL to SFO wouldn't happen because it's most definitely point-to-point. UA to LAX could be plausible, but seems unlikely because it would require mainline, which they only run to a handful of non-hub markets from LAX. They'd also be up against three dailies between DL and AA as well.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
cmhman
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:06 pm

Long time lurker, first time poster. Out of curiosity, I checked the seat maps on CMH-SEA and they are dismal. The March 7 flight out looks nearly full, but anything else I put in from March through the summer was pretty bleak. Maybe most people don't choose their seats when booking (though why wouldn't you)?

Anyway, I've enjoyed the Ohio forum, especially anything related to CMH/LCK.
 
ncflyer
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:42 pm

As someone who peruses seat maps a lot, you’re coming to your conclusion a little prematurely. People don’t buy tix as early as you might think, esp business travelers. You might want to compare CMH to PIT, IND, RDU, DTW for control groups.
 
cmhman
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:19 pm

Good to know!
 
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flymco753
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:38 pm

Looking around on Table 6 data from the DOT, it's noticeable when WN left the DAY-MCO market because of the sharp decline in passengers and increase in fares. That's comparing 2014 to 2018. The market changed very quickly. Comes to show what a nonstop flight can do to a market.
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Runway28L
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:24 pm

flyCMH wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
flycmh2009 wrote:

Half-baked really is the best way to describe it. While it's nice DEN is 100% mainline now, the rest is a mess. Almost entirely 50-seaters to the largest hub and way too many regional partners in general to even come close to providing a consistent product. I'll only take them out if it's on a ERJ170 or above. And even that's a stretch as I'm typically on WN anyway.


I'm curious to the market dynamics which result in CVG having mainline to IAH and IAD and PIT to those two plus EWR, but none to any of those from CMH.


If I'm not mistaken, UA pounced pretty quickly on the fracking industry out of Western PA/Eastern OH and served that market via PIT-IAH. UA also was quick to upgauge and add in both markets after their respective hub downsizing/closure. I think the bigger question is why UA has been so slow to add from CMH, especially given their higher than normal load factors and increases in other peer cities (e.g. SFO finally comes online this June after literally every other market this side of the Mississippi already received the service). My guess is yields, even though it seems UA benefits greatly from ANA and the Honda operation in Marysville, but that's just conjecture. Likewise, I am glad that DEN is consistently all-mainline, that route fluctuated with E70s, CR7s, and even ER4s for way too long. IAH seems to be consistently all E-Jet now; while not mainline, it's better than the ER4s that recently frequented the route.

In the case of PIT-Houston, that route fluctuates with how oil prices and natural gas drilling are doing. When oil was expensive and fracking in Western PA was booming about 3-5 years ago, the route was 9-10x daily on mostly B739s. We even saw WN add PIT-HOU at around that time. Then oil plummeted and a big wave of layoffs hit fracking... UA went down to 5x daily on all-76 seaters. WN also pulled their second daily flight to HOU.

Oil prices started to tick back up last year and fracking began to recover, which saw UA put a single A319 on the route this past summer. Now that prices have dropped again, the route is going back to all-E170/175 in June.
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flyPIT
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:01 pm

Runway28L wrote:
In the case of PIT-Houston, that route fluctuates with how oil prices and natural gas drilling are doing. When oil was expensive and fracking in Western PA was booming about 3-5 years ago, the route was 9-10x daily on mostly B739s. We even saw WN add PIT-HOU at around that time. Then oil plummeted and a big wave of layoffs hit fracking... UA went down to 5x daily on all-76 seaters. WN also pulled their second daily flight to HOU.

Oil prices started to tick back up last year and fracking began to recover, which saw UA put a single A319 on the route this past summer. Now that prices have dropped again, the route is going back to all-E170/175 in June.

PIT-Houston was never no where near that much capacity. During the fracking boom UA operated 5x daily (same as now) however on peak days they would run up to 4 B739s and the occasional 757. Now its 5x ERJs so back in the day it was still a huge jump in capacity - approx 250,000-300,000 seats per year round trip more than what they offer now.

WN never served PIT-HOU 2x daily. They are however going to offer 2x daily for the first time for a four week period starting this April, M-F, and UA is going 6x daily for the first time ever this summer, albeit with all ERJs.

NK came and went at the wrong time on the PIT-IAH route. They started as the energy industry started a down turn and left just as things were turning around.
FLYi
 
ncflyer
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:21 pm

Behind a paywall but article about CAK airport. The author very delicately points out what’s obvious— CAK is in a tough spot. You know it’s rough when they’re hyping up the corporate growth in Green— a single suburb— fueling opportunities at the airport. And they’re hyping up IAH moving to crj 700s.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/transpo ... an-rebound
 
Robert1010
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:24 pm

G4 announces LCK-CHS starting June 6 !
 
flyinryan99
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:29 pm

Robert1010 wrote:
G4 announces LCK-CHS starting June 6 !

They are also announcing TOL-VPS. Already on the G4 website. Only bad news is PGD and SFB are not flying in Sept instead of just SFB
 
Robert1010
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:46 pm

Robert1010 wrote:
G4 announces LCK-CHS starting June 6 !

Bookings start on June 7th though!
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:51 pm

Robert1010 wrote:
G4 announces LCK-CHS starting June 6 !


DeltaRules wrote:
-G4 might add some dots to the map at LCK but, again, it's hard to guess where. CHS and IWA/LAS stand out as possible given G4's model and their bases.


I love how predictable G4 is, but I'm glad to see it!

ncflyer wrote:
Behind a paywall but article about CAK airport. The author very delicately points out what’s obvious— CAK is in a tough spot. You know it’s rough when they’re hyping up the corporate growth in Green— a single suburb— fueling opportunities at the airport. And they’re hyping up IAH moving to crj 700s.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/transpo ... an-rebound


CAK's no doubt in a tough spot, but them getting IAH and having it upgauged is a win for them. It's much like DAY-IAH (which started the same day) starting and then almost immediately being bumped to an E175.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
SkyVoice
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:58 pm

I'm sorry to see that airline traffic at DAY is winding down. My hope was that NK would take a look at the region & decide to serve DAY, since G4, F9 & WN now all serve CVG. However, it appears that a number of posters seem to think that NK would do O.K. at CVG. CVG is my hometown airport, but I'm skeptical. What do you midwestern A*Netters think?
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cledaybuck
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:35 pm

SkyVoice wrote:
I'm sorry to see that airline traffic at DAY is winding down. My hope was that NK would take a look at the region & decide to serve DAY, since G4, F9 & WN now all serve CVG. However, it appears that a number of posters seem to think that NK would do O.K. at CVG. CVG is my hometown airport, but I'm skeptical. What do you midwestern A*Netters think?
NK seems much more interested in the larger airports, so I could definitely see CVG.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:00 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
SkyVoice wrote:
I'm sorry to see that airline traffic at DAY is winding down. My hope was that NK would take a look at the region & decide to serve DAY, since G4, F9 & WN now all serve CVG. However, it appears that a number of posters seem to think that NK would do O.K. at CVG. CVG is my hometown airport, but I'm skeptical. What do you midwestern A*Netters think?
NK seems much more interested in the larger airports, so I could definitely see CVG.


The Dayton Daily News within the last couple years said the airport was talking with Spirit and I agree they could probably be a hit at DAY if they wanted to take a shot at it, as the airport doesn't even have a direct link to MCO anymore as a massive number of airports in the country do. I can't believe less than daily service to tourist draws wouldn't work, especially if you could tie in those with nearby Air Force presences.

The question is do they want to potentially capitalize on that or head for the perceived land of opportunity that is CVG, with its focus cities for their two primary competitors? (How is the gate situation there, by the way? I know at one point it was near critical mass.)

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jplatts
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:22 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
SkyVoice wrote:
I'm sorry to see that airline traffic at DAY is winding down. My hope was that NK would take a look at the region & decide to serve DAY, since G4, F9 & WN now all serve CVG. However, it appears that a number of posters seem to think that NK would do O.K. at CVG. CVG is my hometown airport, but I'm skeptical. What do you midwestern A*Netters think?
NK seems much more interested in the larger airports, so I could definitely see CVG.


The Dayton Daily News within the last couple years said the airport was talking with Spirit and I agree they could probably be a hit at DAY if they wanted to take a shot at it, as the airport doesn't even have a direct link to MCO anymore as a massive number of airports in the country do. I can't believe less than daily service to tourist draws wouldn't work, especially if you could tie in those with nearby Air Force presences.

The question is do they want to potentially capitalize on that or head for the perceived land of opportunity that is CVG, with its focus cities for their two primary competitors? (How is the gate situation there, by the way? I know at one point it was near critical mass.)


There is no real need for NK to serve CVG since
(a) most of the destinations that NK would be serving nonstop out of CVG already have nonstop service out of CVG on G4 or F9,
(b) WN could add nonstop service to BOS, DAL, FLL, HOU, LAS, and TPA out of CVG,
(c) G4 could increase frequencies on its less-than-daily nonstop routes out of CVG,
(d) F9 could add nonstop service to BWI, BOS, and MYR out of CVG,
(e) F9 could bring back nonstop service to MIA or FLL out of CVG,
and (f) F9 could increase frequencies on its less-than-daily nonstop routes out of CVG.

On the other hand, DAY currently lacks nonstop service to FLL, LAS, MIA, MCO, and TPA, and NK could add nonstop service to FLL, LAS, MCO, and TPA out of DAY. NK also recently started service out of AVL, which is located in a smaller market than DAY is.

There are still a few unused gates available in Concourse A at CVG, and there is still enough room at CVG to accommodate new entrants such as NK, AS, or SY.
 
Fargo
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:32 pm

jplatts wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
NK seems much more interested in the larger airports, so I could definitely see CVG.


The Dayton Daily News within the last couple years said the airport was talking with Spirit and I agree they could probably be a hit at DAY if they wanted to take a shot at it, as the airport doesn't even have a direct link to MCO anymore as a massive number of airports in the country do. I can't believe less than daily service to tourist draws wouldn't work, especially if you could tie in those with nearby Air Force presences.

The question is do they want to potentially capitalize on that or head for the perceived land of opportunity that is CVG, with its focus cities for their two primary competitors? (How is the gate situation there, by the way? I know at one point it was near critical mass.)


There is no real need for NK to serve CVG since
(a) most of the destinations that NK would be serving nonstop out of CVG already have nonstop service out of CVG on G4 or F9,
(b) WN could add nonstop service to BOS, DAL, FLL, HOU, LAS, and TPA out of CVG,
(c) G4 could increase frequencies on its less-than-daily nonstop routes out of CVG,
(d) F9 could add nonstop service to BWI, BOS, and MYR out of CVG,
(e) F9 could bring back nonstop service to MIA or FLL out of CVG,
and (f) F9 could increase frequencies on its less-than-daily nonstop routes out of CVG.

On the other hand, DAY currently lacks nonstop service to FLL, LAS, MIA, MCO, and TPA, and NK could add nonstop service to FLL, LAS, MCO, and TPA out of DAY. NK also recently started service out of AVL, which is located in a smaller market than DAY is.

There are still a few unused gates available in Concourse A at CVG, and there is still enough room at CVG to accommodate new entrants such as NK, AS, or SY.


There are plenty of airports where there is already a plethora of ULCC service where NK has entered. Plus, NK has a slightly better reputation than F9 (though that's not saying much). I agree there is still a fair amount of expansion WN can do, but NK will enter the CVG market eventually.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:17 pm

Fargo wrote:
There are plenty of airports where there is already a plethora of ULCC service where NK has entered. Plus, NK has a slightly better reputation than F9 (though that's not saying much). I agree there is still a fair amount of expansion WN can do, but NK will enter the CVG market eventually.


I agree with your point, even though most of the adds that could be made by NK could also be made by carriers that already serve CVG.

If NK did enter the CVG market, NK could add nonstop service to ATL, BWI, BOS, DFW, FLL, IAH, LAS, MYR, MSY, MCO, and TPA out of CVG.

NK started service out of CMH last year, and NK will be starting service out of IND on March 14th. However, F9 is significantly bigger at CVG than it is at IND or CMH, and G4 is significantly bigger at CVG than it is at IND or LCK.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2011
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:59 pm

UA is now scheduling 2xB738 for CVG-DEN this summer. It amazes me how much this route has grown in the past few years. I would not be surprised to see DL and/or WN add another frequency in the near future.
 
Fargo
Posts: 358
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:30 pm

cvgComair wrote:
UA is now scheduling 2xB738 for CVG-DEN this summer. It amazes me how much this route has grown in the past few years. I would not be surprised to see DL and/or WN add another frequency in the near future.


True, but someone is going to blink at some point as I don't think 5 carriers is sustainable from a market like CVG. I expect WN to add a morning frequency at some point, but it wouldn't surprise me if DL dropped the route as they have little to no feed on either end.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 969
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:26 pm

DEN seems to be growing like a weed. PIT has third frequency on UA and WN this summer, both new. CLE has 4x mainline on UA for the first time at least since the hub days, 2x on WN, and 1x on F9 A321. It’s a great airport and a great place to connect.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2011
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:21 am

AA is going 4x/day mainline on CVG-DFW effective April 2.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 3563
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:46 pm

http://www.tribune242.com/news/2019/feb ... m-new-jet/

"What this new aircraft will allow us to do is improve efficiency, on-time performance, and therefore grow our customer base. In addition, what it will allow us to do is to service those markets that do not have non-stop, direct service.

“If you look at where we don’t have nonstop service…New Orleans, Chicago, year-round, Cincinnati — if you look at these secondary markets that are not serviced very well by nonstop service, this is where Bahamasair can step in and improve airlift to the country,”
Delta Diamond Medallion and AAdvantage Gold for 2019
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 4789
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
if you look at these secondary markets that are not serviced very well by nonstop service, this is where Bahamasair can step in and improve airlift to the country,”


Bah Gawd, that's Christina Cassotis' music. :duck:

On a more serious note, there's a pile of of low-hanging fruit Bahamasair doesn't serve yet, but them naming CVG instead of NYC/BOS/DC, etc. specifically is fascinating. Hope it works out for CVG!
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ILNFlyer
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:06 pm

Harvestman wrote:
Saw that N331AZ came into CVG from ILN at 21:45 on January 31. Undergoing maintenance at Wilmington I assume?

Edit: also saw the aforementioned demolition at ILN earlier in the month and snapped a photo. Was wondering which buildings were being worked on.


Bldgs B & C are now completely gone. The area they occupied is being turned into a 1,000 space employee parking lot and room for arriving trucks for F . Rumor has it D will be coming down in July, but no confirmation as of yet. Heavy modifications being made internally to F to restart the sort operation.
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:09 pm

jplatts wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
NK seems much more interested in the larger airports, so I could definitely see CVG.


The Dayton Daily News within the last couple years said the airport was talking with Spirit and I agree they could probably be a hit at DAY if they wanted to take a shot at it, as the airport doesn't even have a direct link to MCO anymore as a massive number of airports in the country do. I can't believe less than daily service to tourist draws wouldn't work, especially if you could tie in those with nearby Air Force presences.

The question is do they want to potentially capitalize on that or head for the perceived land of opportunity that is CVG, with its focus cities for their two primary competitors? (How is the gate situation there, by the way? I know at one point it was near critical mass.)


There is no real need for NK to serve CVG since
(a) most of the destinations that NK would be serving nonstop out of CVG already have nonstop service out of CVG on G4 or F9,
(b) WN could add nonstop service to BOS, DAL, FLL, HOU, LAS, and TPA out of CVG,
(c) G4 could increase frequencies on its less-than-daily nonstop routes out of CVG,
(d) F9 could add nonstop service to BWI, BOS, and MYR out of CVG,
(e) F9 could bring back nonstop service to MIA or FLL out of CVG,
and (f) F9 could increase frequencies on its less-than-daily nonstop routes out of CVG.

On the other hand, DAY currently lacks nonstop service to FLL, LAS, MIA, MCO, and TPA, and NK could add nonstop service to FLL, LAS, MCO, and TPA out of DAY. NK also recently started service out of AVL, which is located in a smaller market than DAY is.

There are still a few unused gates available in Concourse A at CVG, and there is still enough room at CVG to accommodate new entrants such as NK, AS, or SY.


There has been a steady decline in DAY pax numbers since Southwest and G4 ramped up services there.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2011
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:56 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
if you look at these secondary markets that are not serviced very well by nonstop service, this is where Bahamasair can step in and improve airlift to the country,”


Bah Gawd, that's Christina Cassotis' music. :duck:

On a more serious note, there's a pile of of low-hanging fruit Bahamasair doesn't serve yet, but them naming CVG instead of NYC/BOS/DC, etc. specifically is fascinating. Hope it works out for CVG!

Bahamasair previously served CVG-FPO for Vacation Express, but the route was discontinued this year. It would be very nice to see Bahamsair try the route on its own!
 
N292UX
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:17 pm

I think I've started to figure out something about DL's re-growth at CVG. Many of their new adds have been to what call "hot markets", or markets that are rapidly growing population-wise and also tourism-wise. This includes AUS and PHX. With that being said, I think there's a possibility that DL can continue to add routes to a few more hot markets, and one market really seems like a possibility, and that market is SJC. SJC is another rapidly growing market with a strong business ties, and DL seems to want to grow at SJC, as well, so adding a CVG (and BOS/RDU flight, too) would go a long way. While SJC is close to SFO, I'm starting to think it can still support a flight along with SFO. I know F9 tried CVG-SJC, and failed, but that's also F9 and they were using A320s. DL will soon have a weapon that should make this much more likely: The A220. CVG-SJC seems like a really good possible route for the A220 once DL gets their hands on enough of them. Only time will tell, though.

Along with that, I'm extremely confident DL will eventually add CVG-MSY/SAN, and probably CVG-JAX. CVG-SAT/MIA/PDX seem like possibilities, too. I also think some businesses will be able to get DL to restart CVG-MEM/PIT. I know a lot of people weren't too happy with DL dropping that routes. I also wouldn't be shocked if DL were to restart either CVG-RIC or CVG-ORF. RIC has been on a tear recently in terms of growth, so DL adding something there wouldn't be shocking at all. G4 just started a seasonal CVG-ORG, so it wouldn't shock me if DL may try to retaliate or compete with G4 on that route. They have aircraft that are better suited for that route. I'm not sure outside of those markets if there's much more DL can add right now that would be a success. The only other routes I can really see DL MAYBE adding are CVG-BUF/SRQ/PBI/CHS and resuming CVG-BNA. Those don't seem likely right now, though, and if they do happen, they'd happen down the road.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:12 pm

Hi all, long time lurker/first time poster. Thank you all for the frequent Ohio updates! Two CMH questions:

1. Does anyone know how the new(ish) WN CMH-HOU Route is performing overall? I just returned from a round trip on this route and the outbound flight was ~75% full (to be fair it was Valentine’s Day) and the inbound flight was packed with standby pax left at the gate in HOU. I presume the regular scheduling of -800s and MAX8s on the route is a good sign. If so, I wonder if this route is a candidate for an additional daily flight at some point?

2. Does anyone think at least one of the CMH-MSY flights will eventually go daily? I know MSY is a seasonal, primarily leisure market but find it hard to believe that a city pair of that size can’t sustain 1x daily on WN or NK. The current hodgepodge seasonal scheduling on both airlines is rough for business travel. Having connected through MSY before on WN, I would think that between connections, business, and leisure, they would be the more likely candidate for a daily flight but I don’t know the actual PDEW numbers. Thoughts?
 
flycmh2009
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:22 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:29 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
Hi all, long time lurker/first time poster. Thank you all for the frequent Ohio updates! Two CMH questions:

1. Does anyone know how the new(ish) WN CMH-HOU Route is performing overall? I just returned from a round trip on this route and the outbound flight was ~75% full (to be fair it was Valentine’s Day) and the inbound flight was packed with standby pax left at the gate in HOU. I presume the regular scheduling of -800s and MAX8s on the route is a good sign. If so, I wonder if this route is a candidate for an additional daily flight at some point?

2. Does anyone think at least one of the CMH-MSY flights will eventually go daily? I know MSY is a seasonal, primarily leisure market but find it hard to believe that a city pair of that size can’t sustain 1x daily on WN or NK. The current hodgepodge seasonal scheduling on both airlines is rough for business travel. Having connected through MSY before on WN, I would think that between connections, business, and leisure, they would be the more likely candidate for a daily flight but I don’t know the actual PDEW numbers. Thoughts?


This.

1. I was just on the outbound HOU flight myself last week and it had 70 open seats. But it's also middle of winter so hoping that day wasn't indicative of how the flight is normally performing. As mentioned, the flight does seem to be on an -800 most of the time, so hoping that's an indication of booking trends. Regardless, it's nice to have that alternative for people transiting through Houston. For UA, that's a 3hr flight on an ERJ and definitely feels cramped after about 2hrs.

2. I'd like to know the PDEW here as well. I'm not sure about being able to sustain daily service between these two markets, even during the summer. But, upping to 3-4x/week on NK would be nice to see. Speaking of NK, I don't know who will jump on it first (them or WN), but I'd also like to SAN added to the mix. I'd have to think by now, CMH could sustain summer seasonal.
 
Robert1010
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:56 pm

Looks like the Brewdog 767 charter is Enroute to LCK , AWC361
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:26 pm

Robert1010 wrote:
Looks like the Brewdog 767 charter is Enroute to LCK , AWC361


Yep, check out #BrewdogAirlines on social media. Lots of boarding/inflight photos and some nice swag too! Hopefully someone at LCK will post some photos once they land.
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2019

Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:46 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
SkyVoice wrote:
I'm sorry to see that airline traffic at DAY is winding down. My hope was that NK would take a look at the region & decide to serve DAY, since G4, F9 & WN now all serve CVG. However, it appears that a number of posters seem to think that NK would do O.K. at CVG. CVG is my hometown airport, but I'm skeptical. What do you midwestern A*Netters think?
NK seems much more interested in the larger airports, so I could definitely see CVG.


The Dayton Daily News within the last couple years said the airport was talking with Spirit and I agree they could probably be a hit at DAY if they wanted to take a shot at it, as the airport doesn't even have a direct link to MCO anymore as a massive number of airports in the country do. I can't believe less than daily service to tourist draws wouldn't work, especially if you could tie in those with nearby Air Force presences.

The question is do they want to potentially capitalize on that or head for the perceived land of opportunity that is CVG, with its focus cities for their two primary competitors? (How is the gate situation there, by the way? I know at one point it was near critical mass.)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk


AirTran had daily non-stops to MCO from DAY and the were always full.

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