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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:25 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
So the 777X will have dimmable windows ala the 787 family? I thought that idea was dropped to save $$$$$ ?


It had been at least a customer option, but now looks like it will be standard.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:02 pm

The sidewalls seem more vertical than the current 777s.
 
carlokiii
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:14 pm

Stitch wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
So the 777X will have dimmable windows ala the 787 family? I thought that idea was dropped to save $$$$$ ?


It had been at least a customer option, but now looks like it will be standard.

It might still be an option as the window shades are still present, at least on this AR experience in a 77X.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:22 pm

musman9853 wrote:
Planeflyer wrote:
AvroLanc wrote:
I really look forward to this airplane. Just not sure sales will be great for sometime if all the predictions are accurate about the economic downturn. For all our sake, lets hope its not to large. It will effect more than just new 777x sales.



What economic downturn?


We've had 10 straight years of economic growth, there's bond to be a correction in the near future

China is over due. They never went through the real estate correction. This will impact all widebody sales.

Yes, the 777X has less backlog. But so far, a Chinese recession will have zero impact unless LH differs. It will effect possible future orders (TK, ET) and of course EY.

Lightsaber
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ER757
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:14 pm

carlokiii wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
So the 777X will have dimmable windows ala the 787 family? I thought that idea was dropped to save $$$$$ ?


It had been at least a customer option, but now looks like it will be standard.

It might still be an option as the window shades are still present, at least on this AR experience in a 77X.

Last I heard from a friend in Boeing sales is that the dimmable windows are a customer option. That was as of about a month ago, so it's possible that in order to streamline the manufacturing process they decided to go with one type instead of two. I'll try to find out from him if that is in fact the case
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:49 pm

FG ( https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... gn-455228/ ) has a nice article complete with photos, but no info on the hot topic of the day, dimmable windows.
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trijetsonly
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:34 pm

ER757 wrote:
carlokiii wrote:
Stitch wrote:

It had been at least a customer option, but now looks like it will be standard.

It might still be an option as the window shades are still present, at least on this AR experience in a 77X.

Last I heard from a friend in Boeing sales is that the dimmable windows are a customer option. That was as of about a month ago, so it's possible that in order to streamline the manufacturing process they decided to go with one type instead of two. I'll try to find out from him if that is in fact the case


In the live webcast yesterday they said that there are manual window shades as standard and electrical window shades and dimmable windows as customer option.
Happy Landings
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:38 am

A factory gauntlet ground test is scheduled for Sat 9 Feb 19

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/10 ... 05664?s=20
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kengo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:23 am

qf789 wrote:
A factory gauntlet ground test is scheduled for Sat 9 Feb 19

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/10 ... 05664?s=20


Hoping all goes well and looking foward to 777X's first flight.
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:51 pm

This has been a relatively quiet buildup in this program.....seems like everything has been going according to plan mostly(minus Ge issues)
 
rj777
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:47 pm

Any official word yet on the rollout date or when she's going to be painted?
 
Sooner787
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:19 pm

qf789 wrote:
A factory gauntlet ground test is scheduled for Sat 9 Feb 19

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/10 ... 05664?s=20


Could someone refresh my memory; what does the factory gauntlet test involve?
 
bigjku
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:46 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
A factory gauntlet ground test is scheduled for Sat 9 Feb 19

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/10 ... 05664?s=20


Could someone refresh my memory; what does the factory gauntlet test involve?


You basically trick the aircraft into thinking it’s flying and check all the systems as if the plane is in the air.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:48 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Could someone refresh my memory; what does the factory gauntlet test involve?


Going from what happened during the 787's factory gauntlet, the 777X will be hooked up to an external computer and "flown" in a simulated environment to see how the various systems react. The plane will draw power from ground carts and batteries as the engines and APU will not be powered on until the Intermediate Gauntlet later on.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:16 pm

okay.....now I remember....thanks :)
 
JAAlbert
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:03 pm

Love the cabin, and windows bigger than the 787!? God does answer prayers! Interesting that they are going with the dimmable windows!
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:15 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
Interesting that they are going with the dimmable windows!

They are optional, it's up to the airline to decide if they want them or not.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:16 pm

Any news on how the gauntlet tests went over the weekend?
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:00 pm

They may have been either skeleton crew or closed the last few days, huge snow event.
 
bigjku
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:02 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
They may have been either skeleton crew or closed the last few days, huge snow event.


Moderate snow at best...but in a place that has no snow plows for roads and drivers that can’t drive in it.

Sorry, always laugh at descriptions of snow events on the west coast or down south as someone from the Midwest who has spent time in Minnesota and the Dakota’s.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:14 pm

bigjku wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
They may have been either skeleton crew or closed the last few days, huge snow event.


Moderate snow at best...but in a place that has no snow plows for roads and drivers that can’t drive in it.

Sorry, always laugh at descriptions of snow events on the west coast or down south as someone from the Midwest who has spent time in Minnesota and the Dakota’s.


I am across the sound from Everett, in Bremerton, where PSNS is. They never close, occasionally do a 2 hour delay. They cancelled the Friday 2nd Shift, all of Monday and Today. I am looking at 16 inches of snow in the backyard right now, where my office is has 22 inches. It is now raining on the snow and there are lots of reports of roofs collapsing. In the 30+ years I have been here this is the 2nd largest snow event I have seen. In '96 we got 30" over 4 days that collapsed roofs all over town.

I grew up in Colorado and lived in Detroit for 8 years also, avid skier too. This is a bad one, yes rare. One problem here is they often do roads with 17% grades that are toboggan runs when icy.
 
Jet-lagged
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:29 am

The local schools are closed tomorrow, the fifth day out of eight. It really is a sizeable snow event, and the cities around here aren’t prepared for it. There is just no need, it happens so rarely.

The highways are fine enough but getting out of neighborhoods is the problem. Hopefully everyone did and they could run those tests.
 
JAAlbert
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:07 am

Revelation wrote:
JAAlbert wrote:
Interesting that they are going with the dimmable windows!

They are optional, it's up to the airline to decide if they want them or not.


So how do the various airlines feel about the dimmable windows? There must be demand for Boeing to include it as an option, but I wonder what EK's management feels about them as opposed to QR. I read a trip report that said that the QR (or was it Etihad?) flight attendants were militant in insisting that the window shades be drawn throughout the flight. Which ever airline that was, they'd go for the dimmable windows.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:36 pm

Do we know who the 10 unidentified orders are for?
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iamlucky13
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:03 pm

bigjku wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
They may have been either skeleton crew or closed the last few days, huge snow event.


Moderate snow at best...but in a place that has no snow plows for roads and drivers that can’t drive in it.

Sorry, always laugh at descriptions of snow events on the west coast or down south as someone from the Midwest who has spent time in Minnesota and the Dakota’s.


The lack of snowplows is an economic compromise based on the low frequency of significant snow. So it's a simple fact that we accept slow snow removal, and the subsequent compaction of the snow that makes it harder to remove.

And most drivers here have little experience driving in the snow. Those two factors are open for some level of criticism, especially since on the first snow day of the year, a small percentage of the people who don't know how to drive in the snow try to do so, creating a huge mess. The 2nd day of snow each winter is always much better.

But those from snowy climates are often surprised to find they have trouble driving in the snow here, too. The fact that it is fairly hilly here is part of it. The other issues is our snow is usually at temperatures right around freezing, so the snow is barely frozen, and when driven on instantly forms a film of water between the tire and the compacted snow or ice.

I mentioned this to a new coworker from upstate New York as a friendly tip at one point. I could tell he thought it was typical Pacific NW hysteria about snow.

The next day he sheepishly admitted he lost control of his car in 4 inches of snow.
 
EduardoL
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:41 pm

And when is rollout? There are already two almost ready and a third being assembled. When will we see that 777x outside the hangar?
 
ikramerica
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:48 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
bigjku wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
They may have been either skeleton crew or closed the last few days, huge snow event.


Moderate snow at best...but in a place that has no snow plows for roads and drivers that can’t drive in it.

Sorry, always laugh at descriptions of snow events on the west coast or down south as someone from the Midwest who has spent time in Minnesota and the Dakota’s.


The lack of snowplows is an economic compromise based on the low frequency of significant snow. So it's a simple fact that we accept slow snow removal, and the subsequent compaction of the snow that makes it harder to remove.

And most drivers here have little experience driving in the snow. Those two factors are open for some level of criticism, especially since on the first snow day of the year, a small percentage of the people who don't know how to drive in the snow try to do so, creating a huge mess. The 2nd day of snow each winter is always much better.

But those from snowy climates are often surprised to find they have trouble driving in the snow here, too. The fact that it is fairly hilly here is part of it. The other issues is our snow is usually at temperatures right around freezing, so the snow is barely frozen, and when driven on instantly forms a film of water between the tire and the compacted snow or ice.

I mentioned this to a new coworker from upstate New York as a friendly tip at one point. I could tell he thought it was typical Pacific NW hysteria about snow.

The next day he sheepishly admitted he lost control of his car in 4 inches of snow.

That New Yorker was just being cocky. Grew up in New Jersey and that guy would probably have lost control back home too. Plenty of people would crash into stuff every winter despite “being used to it”. Same goes in Cincinnati and upstate New York. Bad snow drivers are everywhere, and they all think they are good snow drivers...
 
jagraham
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:10 pm

Does anyone know how the Feb 9 gauntlet went?
 
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PW100
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:41 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Do we know who the 10 unidentified orders are for?


EK taking hedges for A380 cancellation (tongue in cheek)?
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justloveplanes
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:14 am

Side question... I assume the wingbox is AlLi? How much extra weight in percent is the AlLi fuse over CFRP (I think I read on this thread that the the fuse was AlLi)?
 
WIederling
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:57 pm

justloveplanes wrote:
Side question... I assume the wingbox is AlLi? How much extra weight in percent is the AlLi fuse over CFRP (I think I read on this thread that the the fuse was AlLi)?


IMU the original AL wingbox was set to persist into the 777X design.
for whatever reason: structural integration with the center fuselage segment, certification grandfathering, ..

I'd assume it needed a significant amount of beefing up for the higher moment to be transferred.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:04 pm

justloveplanes wrote:
Side question... I assume the wingbox is AlLi? How much extra weight in percent is the AlLi fuse over CFRP (I think I read on this thread that the the fuse was AlLi)?


Central wing box is all composite made by MHI.
 
WIederling
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:20 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
justloveplanes wrote:
Side question... I assume the wingbox is AlLi? How much extra weight in percent is the AlLi fuse over CFRP (I think I read on this thread that the the fuse was AlLi)?


Central wing box is all composite made by MHI.


balooney:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ox-445809/

spars and skin ( all CFRP ) form the outer wing(box)
Murphy is an optimist
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:28 pm

WIederling wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
justloveplanes wrote:
Side question... I assume the wingbox is AlLi? How much extra weight in percent is the AlLi fuse over CFRP (I think I read on this thread that the the fuse was AlLi)?


Central wing box is all composite made by MHI.


balooney:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ox-445809/

spars and skin ( all CFRP ) form the outer wing(box)


I stand corrected! Thanks! (My bad).
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:07 pm

Did they change any parts of the hull from Al to Al-Li in this update? I recall with all the tradeoffs of density, strength, E, etc it would save up to 10% of the weight of the skin.

Edit: Found this article, but still haven't found whether parts of the skin were changed to Al-Li

https://leehamnews.com/2015/04/02/bjorn ... derations/
 
WIederling
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:54 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
... etc it would save up to 10% of the weight of the skin.


IMu you only get to leverage the advantages if you do a (re)design for the differing AlLi properties.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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qf789
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:36 am

On the 10th of Feb 777X WH002 was disconnected from VESDA (Very Early Smoke Detection Apparatus) prior to a high pressure (high blow) test

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/10 ... 98754?s=20
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pugman211
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:43 am

Also from Matt Cawby's Twitter, another ( I'm not sure how many they have) autoclave is getting ready for installation, so the 777X appears to be building up pace nicely. :)

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/10 ... 69888?s=09
 
morrisond
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:37 pm

Does anybody have a picture of the new interior rib arrangement that allows the wider Cabin?
 
morrisond
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:56 pm

Thanks - that looks really neat how they did that.

But wait (me just kidding) - doesn't that make it an ellipse inside - won't that make the frame blow apart and put the floor in compression? I know probably same hoop stress as outer skin is still round.

There are ways to engineer around almost anything - I suspect that if NMA is Ovalish the engineering is not that difficult as the extra skin strength of Carbon for impact protection (assuming it's Carbon) will make it easier to do unconventional shapes.
 
WIederling
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:55 pm

morrisond wrote:
Thanks - that looks really neat how they did that.

But wait (me just kidding) - doesn't that make it an ellipse inside - won't that make the frame blow apart and put the floor in compression? I know probably same hoop stress as outer skin is still round.


In a pressure vessel the membrane ( here the fuselage wall is forced into a circle.
remove the frames and nothing changes ( as a pressure vessel.)
all the other stresses introduced into the fuselage require stiffness
against changing the (circular or not) shape. pressurized ( helpful ) or not.
Bend a thin walled tube and see how the
circular form collapses into a very flat oval at some point.
If you reduce the frame height ( inner diameter vs outer dia .. )
you need to compensate with more material for the same stiffness.
Murphy is an optimist
 
StTim
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:19 pm

WIederling wrote:
morrisond wrote:
Thanks - that looks really neat how they did that.

But wait (me just kidding) - doesn't that make it an ellipse inside - won't that make the frame blow apart and put the floor in compression? I know probably same hoop stress as outer skin is still round.


In a pressure vessel the membrane ( here the fuselage wall is forced into a circle.
remove the frames and nothing changes ( as a pressure vessel.)
all the other stresses introduced into the fuselage require stiffness
against changing the (circular or not) shape. pressurized ( helpful ) or not.
Bend a thin walled tube and see how the
circular form collapses into a very flat oval at some point.
If you reduce the frame height ( inner diameter vs outer dia .. )
you need to compensate with more material for the same stiffness.


This will have come at a cost of some additional weight - which shows how much Boeing wanted to change the cabin width. Also I am not sure how much they could do this without affecting the grandfathering of the fuselage construction.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:22 pm

StTim wrote:
WIederling wrote:
morrisond wrote:
Thanks - that looks really neat how they did that.

But wait (me just kidding) - doesn't that make it an ellipse inside - won't that make the frame blow apart and put the floor in compression? I know probably same hoop stress as outer skin is still round.

In a pressure vessel the membrane ( here the fuselage wall is forced into a circle.
remove the frames and nothing changes ( as a pressure vessel.)
all the other stresses introduced into the fuselage require stiffness
against changing the (circular or not) shape. pressurized ( helpful ) or not.
Bend a thin walled tube and see how the
circular form collapses into a very flat oval at some point.
If you reduce the frame height ( inner diameter vs outer dia .. )
you need to compensate with more material for the same stiffness.

This will have come at a cost of some additional weight - which shows how much Boeing wanted to change the cabin width. Also I am not sure how much they could do this without affecting the grandfathering of the fuselage construction.

Seems to be presuming the material is already at stiffness limit. Maybe it is thicker than needed for other reasons (ramp rash, etc) and reserve strength is available. Or maybe Boeing is winding us all up and we will end up with the traditional 'double bubble' after all. Thing is, everyone who has seen Boeing's NMA pitch (most recently, Neeleman in January) says it's ovoid. Not sure if that would project on to 77x in any way though.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
morrisond
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:09 pm

WIederling wrote:
morrisond wrote:
Thanks - that looks really neat how they did that.

But wait (me just kidding) - doesn't that make it an ellipse inside - won't that make the frame blow apart and put the floor in compression? I know probably same hoop stress as outer skin is still round.


In a pressure vessel the membrane ( here the fuselage wall is forced into a circle.
remove the frames and nothing changes ( as a pressure vessel.)
all the other stresses introduced into the fuselage require stiffness
against changing the (circular or not) shape. pressurized ( helpful ) or not.
Bend a thin walled tube and see how the
circular form collapses into a very flat oval at some point.
If you reduce the frame height ( inner diameter vs outer dia .. )
you need to compensate with more material for the same stiffness.


Sorry I didn't make it clear - I was joking and trying to make fun of all the people saying an Oval NMA could never be built - there are ways around it. Not the same as 777x but I'm sure Boeing and Airbus are capable of engineering an Horizontal Oval - probably a lot easier using composites.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:26 pm

WIederling wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
... etc it would save up to 10% of the weight of the skin.


IMu you only get to leverage the advantages if you do a (re)design for the differing AlLi properties.


What is up with all of these ‘IMU’ comments? What does that mean?

It would be best to just write out the words.
Whatever
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:30 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
WIederling wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
... etc it would save up to 10% of the weight of the skin.


IMu you only get to leverage the advantages if you do a (re)design for the differing AlLi properties.


What is up with all of these ‘IMU’ comments? What does that mean?

It would be best to just write out the words.


It's my understanding that IMU means "It's my understanding"....but I've been wrong before. :-)
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
EduardoL
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:28 pm

Do you already have the rollout date of the first 777x assembly line?
 
WIederling
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:47 am

Revelation wrote:
Not sure if that would project on to 77x in any way though.


Afaics Boeing did not change the hull shape at all.
What they changed is the height of the frame web at the height of the window belt.

( going back: was it one of the wide body tri jets that had non uniform hoop frames? )
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:51 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
It's my understanding that IMU means "It's my understanding"....but I've been wrong before. :-)


http://marshall.freeshell.org/abbrev.html
Murphy is an optimist
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:42 pm

I understood the extra few inches in width did not come from the circle, but inside fitting and insulation. Am I rightly reading this that the frame has been redesigned? And that would be at shoulder height and for just a few feet?? Wouldn't that be a fairly easy engineering trick?
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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos