ren41
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Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 4:14 am

A report on FOX 25 (Boston) airing either tonight or tomorrow at 10PM is saying a new airline is coming to BOS, it's Alaska Airlines and they're interviweing people who say it's an un-safe airline and they would refuse to fly it.

Are they saying all this just because there have been 2 big crashes (flight 261 and 1866)? Many US airlines have had a lot more crashes than them and there aren't report like this about them. Whats the deal? I heard Alaska was a great airline to fly.

**Ren41**
 
jared
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 4:17 am

They are coming here? There is no room at terminals!

In one month everyone is kicked out of A and it will be demolished. I can't imagine where they would put a new airline coming into Logan.
 
Guest

RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 4:25 am

I have flown Alaska several times and have always found them to be very good. I would consider them to be safe.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 4:42 am

1866? Excuse me?

261 was Alaska's first crash in over 25 years. The last one prior was in Juneau, where weather and a malfunctioning navaid were to blame.

Besides, no mainline Alaska flight numbers go over 999. Recheck your facts, Dorothy.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
 
Guest

RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 5:58 am

September 4 1971
Alaska Airlines
Flight 1866
Boeing 727-193
Juneau, Alaska
111 Fatalities
 
FrequentFlier
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 7:24 am

Having flown Alaska several times as well, I can affirm that it is a perfectly safe carrier as well as having some of the best service in the country.

However, all of Alaska's older aircraft are quite old and outdated, and, to be honest, scare me. After flying on some beautiful new aircraft in the "lower 48" it's hard adjusting to first-generation MD-80s (with the seatbelt sign at the FRONT OF THE CABIN)
 
jared
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 7:35 am

I wonder why I never saw any info about this. It is starting 4/4 just from looking at reservations info at their website. 737 BOS-SEA.

I still have no idea where they will put them at BOS.
 
GD727
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 11:42 am


Jared: I haven't been to Logan for a while, but can't they fit them in Terminal D (the terminal that looks like a subway station restroom). I thought they moved Airtran's counters. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
Spark
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 11:54 am

I certainly feel safe on Alaska, especially the 73NGs. I was talking to a dispatcher shortly after the 261 (a big deal in the Bay Area, since it was a SFO bound flight) and he told me Alaska had a paper work problem. Sure it looks bad, but I don't think represents a serious hazzard.
 
AlaskaMVP
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 12:08 pm

MD-80's and 737's have tremendous safety records, about one hull damaging event every 3 million flights. Alaska has one of the youngest fleets of any major, average age 7.7 years. MD-80s are much younger than 727's, DC-8's, L1011s and DC-10s that many of the majors were flying just last year.

Alaska had one bad crash in bad weather in the state of Alaska 30 years ago, and fly in and out of some of the toughest airports in North America. Because of that they've been a leader in equipping their planes with advanced landing and navigational equipment. They had a second bad crash in LA, due to a maintainance error. Because of that I'm willing to bet that their maintanence practices are now among the best in the world.

In fact, I'm flying on an Alaska MD80 twice next week, with no more concern than on any other major carrier. BTW, Alaska is also profitable, unlike all the other majors with the exception of Southwest. So if you are worried about airlines cutting corners on safety, I'd worry first about the ones that are close to bankruptcy.
 
jared
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 12:14 pm

GD727,

Honestly, I'm not too sure about the situation. But with one entire terminal being evacuated a month from now and having to use gates and jetways at other terminals, it can't be pretty.

I actually saw crews attaching a jetway to terminal B today, probably getting ready for either DL Shuttle or CO.

Also, terminal D still does look like a subway station restroom. It's going to be really nice when it's done but until then, it is such trash.

I know Midwest Express is going to a nice area in C but I hear DL Shuttle, CO, and Cape Air are really getting the shaft.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 12:21 pm

Why are they tearing down Eastern's old terminal at BOS?  Crying
Love Trumps Hate
 
jared
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 12:25 pm

DL is taking over! Right now they only have DL Shuttle out of A. You're right, there is a lot of history at that terminal but it is very old and showing its age.

Delta is ripping it down and building a new one which will house all DL flights, Express, Shuttle, and whatever "regular" Delta is called.

That will eventually make more room at the rest of the terminals but until then I have a feeling it's going to be pretty cramped. Or I could be wrong about the space-issue.

However, Terminal A is indeed coming down very shortly.  Sad
 
jared
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 12:28 pm

Ren41,

I too have seen the ad now a LOT of times. It is on tomorrow on the 10pm news on Fox after the X-Files.

They show this guy all like "DO NOT FLY ALASKA AIRLINES." Apparently he has some "beef" with them. I'm sure we can either recap the news clip for the rest of you all, or it will probably be posted online after it airs.

I have never heard anything like this about Alaska Airlines either. I am curious what this guy has to say about them (other than not to fly them.)
 
ILuvYak40
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 12:41 pm

Frequentflier -

You have a problem with the older MD-80s? Just be lucky you're not like me and fly NW's DC-9s every month.  Smile
 
LH423
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 4:29 pm

Well, I think that's the great thing about the airlines in Terminal A. For the most part, they're the airlines that don't have many flights.

Frontier currently only has one daily flight. Midwest Express isn't too prolific, maybe 3-4 flights a day, Cape Air doesn't even need gates, but it sure is convenient the little set up they have going in Terminal A, with the check-in and departure lounge just a staircase away from the planes. Continental almost never fills the amount of gates they have in Terminal A. All-in-all, of the 10 gates in Terminal A, you could probably fit them all in about 6. Just have 2 multi-airline gates for Frontier and Midwest Express. DL Shuttle is getting three in Terminal B, where Metrojet used to depart from. CO could use the two former TWA gates.

Sure, some airlines are gonna get shafted, but in the end, think about how much of it will be made up. When that terminal is done, you'll have consolidated all of Delta's operations, leaving gates open in Terminals B and C, and by then, I'm sure Terminal C will have some new plans for expansion. Boston will one day become too small for the market it serves, but until then, I have to say that I'm quite impressed with how Massport and the airlines are utilizing the space we have.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
L-188
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 5:14 pm

Setting aside the fact that age shouldn't be a consideration in airline safety, Alaska Airlines has one of the youngest fleets out there. Especially when you stop figuring in the 7 or 8 Gravel kitted 737-200QC's that are used almost exclusivly within the state of Alaska.

I think your news station found a reference who is talking out of his ass.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 5:20 pm

Alaska at one time was the airline with best service, I think it still is. They are a safe airline. They should talk about AA or something like that regarding safety. Alaska has some of the most experienced pilots in the world, if not the most experienced! For those of you who haven't been to Alaska you wouldn't know.

-Dmitry
 
TNboy
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 5:29 pm

It's depressing the way the media can never be content to simply tell it like it is. They always need "an angle" or a headline. If that means that a report is biased, one-sided or based on speculation, individual anger or emotional overload, well, the public are suckers for a bit of sensationalism anyway. Aren't they?
Obviously I won't be able to see the program, but maybe someone will surprise me by letting us know that the "don't fly Alaska" comments are balanced by a suitable number of glowing passenger comments (based on factual surveys of Alaska satisfaction ratings).
Or would balanced reporting be a bit too difficult?
"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
 
johnboy
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 6:14 pm

IMHO, it's usually the Fox affiliates who scream out such headlines.
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Sun Mar 17, 2002 11:59 pm

Or would balanced reporting be a bit too difficult?


Not too difficult, but dosen't bring in the ratings. More's the pity.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
TNboy
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:05 am

...and that's the problem. The more we watch the sensationalist stuff, the more that certain networks will continue to throw it at us "because it's what the public wants." But I guess it's such a habit for some of them now that they wouild probably just do it anyway. It's a great pity that they can damage reputations in the process. You have to admire the reporters, though. Can't be easy being an instant expert on everything!
"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:07 am

I agree w/ the assement that the media is planting the notion that Alaska is unsafe into peoples heads. AS hasn't had an acident in a few years, and it looks like they got thier act together w/ the maintenece record keeping which was a major concern. It must have been a slow news day in Boston for them to dig up old news to hysterical about.

Isnt the A terminal the one with the parking garage on the roof and the garage less than 300 ft. from the terminal. I think they have to demolish it to reconsturct it in accordance w/ new security procedures. Bit of a drastic solution if thats the case however.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
roadrunner165
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:43 am

Alaska Airline's is a GREAT airline-
I've flow them many times and have never had a problum- Even there -200's are in good condition.
To bad there realy noisy or I would fly on them more often.


adam
 
jared
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:46 am

Yes, that is A but that isn't why they are tearing it down. It has nothing to do with 9/11 new security stuff. It was already going to happen before then.

The parking meters 300ft from the terminal cannot be used now and a lot of the parking on the top of A has been cut down. Very few supervisors and stuff are allowed to park up there, not all employees like it used to be.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:57 am

Something I forgot. Why is Alaska going to BOS? AS seemed to be content to be a regional carrier for the West Coast and connecting the lower 48 to Alaska. Is the market from BOS to SEA and ANC that large. And Why BOS? Why not ORD Or a Mid-West city, am I wrong to assume they do not have a presence east of DEN? So why go Trans-Con now? Or is this a move to get New Englanders to the Alaskan Cruise ships this coming summer?
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Spark
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RE:Why Fly To The East Coast?

Mon Mar 18, 2002 2:07 am

Alaska already has a flight to ORD. I believe it is from SEA-TAC, but maybe from Anchorage.
Up until recently, Alaska was a North-West Carrier on the West Coast, with no cities served east of SLC, with the exception of ORD.
They are the strongest carrier from the West Coast to the Mexican Riviera.
The move from the Northwest to the Atlantic Coast maybe to stay the dominant carrier in the Northwest (staying ahead of Southwest).
Southwest is already the dominant carrier in the lucrative Seattle-Bay Area Market, and I believe dominant carrying passengers from Seattle to LA. (Southwest dominates regional traffic in the West!)
By going east, AS can keep their position in the Northwest.
BTW, Seattle isn't a dinky little city. There is a ton of businesses with Seattle connections, and a lot of travellers come through Seattle.
 
EIPremier
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Mon Mar 18, 2002 4:13 am

Well, I had hoped that this kind of nonsense would have died out by now, but this is exactly the kind of sleazy thing FOX would do. After all, they're the same network that wanted to stage a crash of a Convair 880, and air it on primetime TV.

As for as Alaska is concerned, it's pretty much common knowledge that had some paperwork issues and staffing problems in their maintenance department during the late 90s. However, they certainly were not alone in this, and extensive changes have since been made. And, I can certainly stay from a passenger's perspective that their planes appear very well maintained.

Southwest is already the dominant carrier in the lucrative Seattle-Bay Area Market, and I believe dominant carrying passengers from Seattle to LA.

Alaska is the dominant carrier between both Seattle and the Bay Area and Seattle and SoCal.
 
GD727
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Mon Mar 18, 2002 8:14 am

Jared: The new Terminal A is going to Delta? Who's getting all their space in Terminal C?

-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
jared
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Mon Mar 18, 2002 9:37 am

Not sure.

I will try to ask around though and get back to you.
 
Theiler
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:28 pm

Well, that whole "investigative report" was a joke.

The whole thing centered around a man (sounded British) who lives in the US who lost relatives in the crash off from California. He has a lawsuit pending against Alaska Air seeking a "public apology" for so-called shoddy maintenance practices. He, himself stated that the lawsuit is a "long-shot".

The "report" did not seek input from the FAA/NTSB, nor anyone other than this guy. He went on to state that airlines performing maintenance on their own crafts was a "huge conflict of interest", because there is the potential to cut corners.

All in all, the FOX station conducted a piss-poor, one-sided report, that was overly generalizing of Alaska Air, and strictly opinion-based. I wonder if they even bothered to investigate maintenance deficiencies that have been proven to exist with many other airlines? Likewise, I wonder if they raised the same story when AirTran (formerly ValuJet) started service to BOS?
 
N400QX
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:39 pm

I'm with AlaskaMVP on this one--

--Alaska was the first airline in the world to manually land a passenger jet (a 727) in Category III weather using a HUD.
--Alaska was the first US airline to take off in <600 ft. RVR with a passenger jet.
--Alaska flew the first passenger jet equipped with GPS navigation.

They are at the front of the pack when it comes to upgrading their aircraft to be as safe as possible in bad weather. I'd fly them in 0/0 anyday.

As for maintenance, yes, that was a paperwork screw-up as well as creating an unknown hazardous situation (using two different lubes on the jackscrew). As has already been pointed out, I'll bet they have one of the safest, if not the safest, MD-80 fleets in the country.

As for the charge that they have old planes-- they have four aircraft from the 1970s (all of which are 732 combis, three from '79, one from '74), 14 aircraft from the '80s, 69 from the '90s, and 15 from the 2000's. Not too shabby.

>IMHO, it's usually the Fox affiliates who scream out such headlines.

True. Fox affiliates' news programs are usually lacking in the ratings (I can't imagine why...  Yeah sure) so they tend to put out crap like this.

I'm sick of the media railing on Alaska-- Alaska is safer and has a better record than most, if not all, of the other nine top-10 airlines in the nation.

I'd take Alaska over any other carrier on any flight to any city on any day. The fleet is pretty new, the service is great, they are safe-- all around my favorite airline. Hopefully they will expand to the east beyond DEN, BOS, DCA/IAD, and ORD.
 
ren41
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Tue Mar 19, 2002 5:14 am

The FOX reporter even said flight 261 was from Puerto Vallarta to SEATTLE when it was really going to San Francisco. Obviously he didn't do a good job researching his investigation.

**Ren41**
 
777D
Posts: 285
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Tue Mar 19, 2002 5:27 am

Alaska unsafe?

Please, Alaska Airlines is a safe carrier. Every airline has their mishaps regarding there past flying history.

If the people in Boston are worried about Alaska, look at American.

The crash in Bogota I believe in 1995(?)and the JFK crash regarding the Airbus 300 with the tail separating from the fuelage.

That is just to name a few.

Alaska is a great airline and their safety record is excellent.
 
woodsboy
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Tue Mar 19, 2002 5:48 am

Just the nature of the story that you are talking about would be a red flag- interviewing "people" who say its unsafe? Well, who are these people? We all know as members of this forum and aviation enthusiasts that the media cant tell a 737 from a 777 and certainly cant tell their ass from a hole in the ground when reporting on accidents and safety records. We all know that flying is amazingly safe and the MD-80 and 737 are about as safe as it gets.

As for Alaska's MD-80s being quite old and outdated....
Their oldest MD-80 (N931AS) delivered in 1985 is hardly "old" and their newest MD-80 was delivered NEW in 1997 (N981, N982AS). The only aircraft in their fleet that are older are the 737-200QCs, but only a couple of those are 20 years old and they are specialized aircraft so they dont have much choice.

Alaska is no less safe than anyone else and considering the conditions that AS flight crews have to deal with every day in places like Anchorage, Juneau, Dutch Harbor, Barrow and Red Dog, I would be confident is saying that they get a good deal more challenging flying than most pilots do.

One thing that I cant say about Alaska is that it was a good comapny to work for. The pay and compensation is at about the bottom of the industry, in Alaska you can make more working at Subway after 6 months than you can being a Customer Service Agent at Alaska Airlines.
 
GD727
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Tue Mar 19, 2002 6:37 am


I saw the report last night and must say it was the WORST investigative report I've ever seen! The scource was this one guy who lost his family in the California MD-80 crash. I have never flown Alaska Airlines, but would be happy to try them.
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Tue Mar 19, 2002 10:02 am

>>>A report on FOX 25 (Boston)<<<

Ooooh, the "Fox" network--now THERE'S a highly regarded source of fine journalism and accuracy in their research and reporting. (Not!) But hey, what does one expect from the network that brought society such enlightening and socially responsible shows like "Temptation Island" and more recently, the boxing bouts between Tonya Harding/Paula Jones and the other media refugees...

Must be "sweeps" month again...

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Tue Mar 19, 2002 10:15 am

Yes, I saw the ads on Fox, but didn't end up watching, but to me it seemed like a ton of hogwash.

In regards to Terminal A at BOS, here is what is happening:

Delta Shuttle - Moves to Gates B1, B2, B3
Midwest Express/Frontier - Probably going to C41, C42 (ex TWA)
Alaska - Will use American Airlines gates in Terminal B
Continental - Who knows??? Terminal D seems to be the sole possibility, with AirTran having 2 gates and CO the other three, and Alitalia moving into Delta.
Cape Air - Maybe US Airways Express gates, but who knows.

As Delta moves into the new Terminal A, I would think that the airlines from the old A would fill into Delta's C pier. I could see MidEx and Frontier taking C26 and C28, Continental Express getting C27 and some of the gates at the end of the pier, and the other gates becoming free gates for expansion.

Jeff
 
jettblasterp
Posts: 202
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RE: Alaska Airlines Unsafe To Fly?!?!

Tue Mar 19, 2002 12:24 pm

Okay guys...you wanted to know and now I'll tell you. In regards to terminal A. All of you have pieces but not everything.
CO 5 gates on the DL pier Terminal C. Don't remember offhand which ones.
YX C40 Former TWA
DL will be moving some flights to C41 and C42. (C42 is currently being added to the former TWA area.
9K Again, not sure of the gate number, but they will be getting 2, yes only 2, spots just inside the DL checkpoint, terminal C where ACA is.
F9 They currently have no spot as they can't find a ground handler once CO moves. They cannot use YX gates as their schedules conflict.
DL shuttle B1,2,3 effective 4/6.
Did I forget anyone?
By the way, this is way off topic, sorry.