racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 12:45 am

The "Landgericht Köln" court has ruled today, that Ryanair isn't allowed to advertise the airport Hahn as Frankfurt-Hahn anymore. If they continue advertising with Frankfurt-Hahn, they will have to pay 250.000 € for every ad.

Here is the article:

Ryanair unterliegt Lufthansa
Schluss mit "Frankfurt Hahn"


Der irische Billigfluganbieter Ryanair darf in seiner Werbekampagne den Flughafen Hahn im Hunsrück nicht mehr als "Frankfurt-Hahn" bezeichnen. Das Landgericht Köln bestätigte die von der Deutschen Lufthansa erwirkte einstweilige Verfügung des Oberlandesgerichts Köln vom 8. Januar, nach der die Bezeichnung irreführend ist. Der Flughafen Hahn liegt rund 100 Kilometer von Frankfurt am Main entfernt.

Die Bezeichnung suggeriere dem Kunden die Vorstellung, dass der als "Frankfurt-Hahn " bezeichnete Flughafen in unmittelbarer Entfernung zur Stadt Frankfurt am Main liege und mit ähnlicher Anbindung an das Stadtgebiet versehen sei wie der bekannte Flughafen "Frankfurt/Main", schreibt das Gericht in der Urteilsbegründung. Der Verbraucher sei daran gewöhnt, dass im Inland Flughäfen zwecks geografischer Zuordnung den Namen der nächstgelegenen Großstadt führten. Daraus könne geschlossen werden, dass sich der Flugplatz in einer Entfernung zum jeweiligen Stadtgebiet befinde, die die Anreise mit vertretbarem zeitlichen Aufwand ermögliche. Beim Flughafen Hahn sei dies von Frankfurt aus nicht der Fall.

Gegen die Entscheidung des Oberlandesgerichts Köln hatte Ryanair mit der Begründung Widerspruch eingelegt, dass die rheinland-pfälzischen Behörden den Namen "Frankfurt-Hahn" im vergangenen September auch offiziell genehmigt hatten. Lufthansa und die irische Fluglinie streiten sich sei Wochen vor Gericht unter anderem über die vergleichende Werbung von Ryanair. Beide Seiten hatten bereits einstweilige Verfügungen gegen die jeweilige Gegenpartei erwirkt.
 
airblue
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:16 pm

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 1:51 am

Someone could offer a translation, cause the internet free translations don't usually give the right meaning of the article.
Thanks a lot Smile

In any case I think this is a good decision.
But is this sentence ruled only within German, or also for the ad they put on their web site??
 
Setjet
Posts: 1140
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:54 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 1:59 am

They can't use the name 'Frankfurt-Hahn' since HNN is more than 120km apart from FRA, even though the airport uses the same name.
In the future they have to point out the distance between the airport and the city (more than three hours by public transportation and then you still end up 15km away from the airport!).
I wonder if it has any affect on their other airports, like 'Hamburg-Luebeck' as they like to call it! No connection to HAM whatsoever...
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 2:04 am

funny how the ryanair low ocst alliance in airliners hasnt responded??!!!
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 2:07 am

Here we go!! Freestyle translation  Smile

Ryanair looses against Lufthansa
"Frankfurt Hahn" no more

The Irish low-cost carrier Ryanair is no longer allowed to advertize the airport Hahn in the Hunsrueck mountains as "Frankfurt Hahn". The state court Cologne confirmed a sentence of the cologne high court of January 8th, citing that the term "Frankfurt-Hahn" is misleading. The airport is located over 100km away from Frankfurt.

The term suggests for customers that "Frankfurt-Hahn" is an airport in the direct neighbourhood of Frankfurt am Main, having a similar public transportation system connection as the well known airport Frankfurt am Main, the court sentenced in its reasoning.

The consumer is used to associate the name of the domestic airport to the geographically next closest large city. This leads to the judgement that the airport is in a distance to the city area which makes a reasonable long journey to the airport possible. In the case of the airport Hahn this element is not fulfilled.

The next paragraphis only about the history of the FR-LH clashes, we all know it, thus I leave it out.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
SQ325
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:54 pm

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 2:35 am

FR looses
SURPRISE SURPRISE!
wonder how FR will react!
Will they accept it?
They need to otherwise it will cost MOL a lot of money.
Wonder how the booking rate will react a lot of people still don't know where Hahn is!
great Victory for LH
 
lapper
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 6:42 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 2:45 am

Much as I dislike Ryanair, they did not name the airport! It was named Frankfurt-Hahn long before FR even decided to fly there!

Matt
 
Guest

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 2:48 am

It's still on their website Big grin
 
Ndebele
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:16 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 2:59 am

After all this silly we-don't-like-Ryanair-let's-sue-them, I think everybody knows where Hahn is located.

Does anybody remember German Wings? It was just the same! German Wings was an all-business airline, Ryanair is a low-cost. It seems like LH really fears the competition with airlines from another market. Btw, what happened to the Burda(?)-brothers?

Why can't LH accept that there are some people who want to fly cheap, no matter if departing from FRA or HHN! It has nothing to do with the term "Frankfurt-Hahn" or "Hahn-Frankfurt" or whatever. I know where HHN is located and I will keep on flying FR. Btw, at BOH airport I saw an ad "Bournemouth-Frankfurt 15GBP"  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards, Ndebele (member of the "Ryanair low cost alliance in airliners"  Smile/happy/getting dizzy )
 
vfw614
Posts: 3171
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 3:32 am

"Btw, at BOH airport I saw an ad "Bournemouth-Frankfurt 15GBP"

Advertising in England = English competition law

"It was named Frankfurt-Hahn long before FR even decided to fly there!"

A name is a name is a name is a name. You can call a piece of tarmac whatever you like. The question is how you can use the name you have invented for advertising. That exactly what the court referred to. It did not doubt that the "official name" is Frankfurt-Hahn. But if the "official name" is misleading, you need to clarify. That's what Ryanair has not done.

"I think everybody knows where Hahn is located"

No, absolutely not. I flew with them HHN-BGY last Friday and when I mentioned it while out for lunch with six colleagues on monday, none of them had the faintest idea where Hahn is - and they do read broadsheets, rest assured.

"It's still on their website"

The ruling has to be delivered to them officially before they have to comply. I am pretty sure that Ryanair will appeal against the decision anyway.
 
Guest

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 3:39 am

Ryanair won't even consider this a setback, in the grand scheme of things.

It knows dinosaurs like LH are cowering, sweating and resorting to hollow victories in the courts to justifiy their high costs. The traveling public is sick of being gouged by flying cranes, shamrocks and waving Union Jacks.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 3:44 am

Look how much free publicity the flights to Hahn have got over the recent weeks. O'Leary must be laughing his ass off.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
karliboy
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:19 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:01 am

it's about time LH got some REAL competition!! FR and the other low-cost airlines (Go and Easyjet) have walked all over a lot of other UK airlines...high time LH discovered what it feels like to have FR yapping at its heels. They've had a monopoly for far too long!


Karl
 
Setjet
Posts: 1140
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:54 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:04 am

Karliboy:

Depends if you prefer to travel with a PLANE or with a dirty old bus full of stickers!
 
vfw614
Posts: 3171
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:12 am

What can I say - I guess that's Ryanair-style :-o

RYANAIR WELCOMES GERMAN COURT DECISION CONFIRMING THE USE OF FRANKFURT-HAHN NAME SUBJECT TO CLARIFICATION OF ITS LOCATION IN OUR ADVERTISING

Ryanair, Germany’s largest low fares airline today welcomed the further clarification of the Cologne Court which has confirmed that it is permissible to use the legal name of Frankfurt-Hahn Airport, subject to Ryanair’s adverts providing adequate clarification to consumers of the location of the airport and the means of connection to/from Frankfurt. Ryanair confirmed that it has written to the German Court in order to reach agreement on these further points of clarification.

Speaking today on learning of the German Court’s decision, Ryanair’s Chief Executive, Michael O’Leary said;

“We welcome this decision from the German Courts which confirms once and for all that we are free to call Frankfurt-Hahn Airport by its legal name. We welcome the guidance of the Court in seeking to provide German consumers and visitors with as much clarity as is necessary as to the location of the airport and the ease of connecting between it and the city of Frankfurt.

“All of this information and detail has been contained on our website at www.RYANAIR.COM through which more than 90% of all Ryanair’s bookings are taken. We have now written to the Court seeking their guidance as to how we best communicate these issues in the form of reasonably understandable advertising in our German advertising.

“Frankfurt-Hahn Airport is now the fastest growing airport in German if not in Europe. German consumers and visitors are now using it in ever increasing numbers. With the successful launch of seven new routes at the airport on the 14th February last, traffic numbers now exceed 100,000 passengers a month, or more than 1 million passengers a year. It is clear from this success that German consumers are in no way confused as to the location of Frankfurt-Hahn Airport, and equally visitors to Frankfurt-Hahn find it a convenient, uncongested and simple means of accessing not just the city of Frankfurt but the greater Frankfurt region as well.

“To celebrate the positive outcome of this case today Ryanair announced its lowest ever seat sale across the ten routes it operates from Frankfurt-Hahn Airport, with more than 100,000 seats on sale for travel over the next four weeks at a fare of €9 one way. Clearly seats at these incredible prices will sell out quickly, so we urge everyone to book them straight away at www.RYANAIR.COM”.

 
karliboy
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:19 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:22 am

since when have 738's been buses?
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:27 am

I really want to now what stuff O'leary smokes. It makes everything look positive  Big grin
 
planeguy
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:31 am

Court decisions aside, here are some questions for those of you in Germany: How has the German traveling public reacted to Ryanair? Has this carrier been well received? Also, how have their loads been since they opened their Hahn hub? Have they been successful at that airport?
 
Ndebele
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:16 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:55 am

Planeguy:
I've been on Ryanair HHN-BOH-HHN last week. As you can read in my trip report, about 80% of the passengers on both flights were British, only the minority were German.
 
patroni
Posts: 1372
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 1999 7:49 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 5:15 am

Wow, seems it is a party day today for our LH cheerleaders here in the forum  Big grin

Actually, I flew Ryanair for the first time last weekend and was absolutely positively surprised by the two flights from Frankfurt-120km-Hahn to Bournemouth and back!

The aircraft on both ways was EI-CSR, a 3 month old 737-800 which offered a surprisingly generous legroom (much more than TAP Air Portgual which I had to suffer in January..). Parking at the terminal in HHN was convenient and for free; according to the cars numberplates the people came from all over Western and Southern Germany, plus some from Luxembourg and France. However I did not see and car from frankfurt (well, who cares about FRA anyway ?  Wink/being sarcastic) . Check in was done very quick, the flights went absolutely on time, even arrived early. The flight crew was very friendly and helpful and you felt the enthousiasm of building something new in German air transport.
The flights were about 95% full on the way to Bournemouth, on the way back we had a load factor of maybe 80%, not bad for an airline that departs from an airport which "nobody knows".
The passengers were by far not all the rucksack hitchhiker type which many people expect. It was merely a nice mixture of business people, travelling families and other people; the atmosphere on board was friendly and relaxed.

So - I was so impressed that I will go on my next Ryanair flight tomorrow, from HHN to Bergamo and back... one day Italy for 18.57 Euro....

On a side note, the FR flights brought me even LH Frequent Flyer Miles.... I simply paid them with my LH credit card Big grin

Go Ryanair! I am looking forward for your next destinations ex HHN, and I couldn't care less if you call the airport Hahn, Frankfurt, Paris or Rpfglzmnzrqtz....
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 5:29 am

This ruling shows that, EU rhetoric to the contrary, individual states in the EU really don't want competitors from other countries competing on their home turf.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RogueTrader

Wed Mar 20, 2002 9:55 am

RogueTrader: This ruling shows that, EU rhetoric to the contrary, individual states in the EU really don't want competitors from other countries competing on their home turf.

Yeah, we all know the EU is EVIL and filled with untrustworthy individuals.  Wink/being sarcastic

But apart from that, it was an independent german court which made a decision based on fair competition laws. Much like deciding on a complaint about some toothpaste commerial.

"Frankfurt"-Hahn indeed has quite a bit of political backing from the state government of Rheinland-Pfalz which competes with the Hessen government where FRA is located.

So was there anything else?
 
Ndebele
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:16 am

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:02 pm

Ironically, both FRA and HHN belong to Fraport Airport Authority  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Guest

RE: The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair

Wed Mar 20, 2002 6:49 pm

RogueTrader,

The fact that the EU allows its carriers to be owned by any interested party/parties from other member states, as well as allowing those airlines to base themselves anywhere in the EU (and effectively fly from anywhere to anywhere, within the EU) rather reflects the trend of liberalisation in this region of the world.

Ryanair, buzz and Easyjet have all taken advantage of this by basing their a/c in various different countries; sometimes this can cause opposition from those parties who feel threatened (read: Lufthansa v Ryanair).

However, you are right to imply that European governments will sometimes thwart such moves in the interests of politics or perceived benevolence (especially countries with socialist-leaning policies such as France).

You must remember also that America can and does prevent active competition from taking place with its own goods and services; whether thats right or wrong I don't know, but they do it too!

Regards