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LAXintl
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Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:16 pm

U.S DOT is notifying carriers that on March 9, 2019 Samoa decided to withdraw its open-skies relationship with the United States dating back to 2002, effective July 9, 2019.

Not sure why... :scratchchin:

Doc. 2019-04865


Here is a news story:
Samoa government formally ends open-skies relationship with US
http://www.samoanews.com/local-news/sam ... ionship-us

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
wjcandee
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:21 pm

Well, they filed the notice of withdrawal a year ago, so somebody probably knows why.

Doubtless wanting some sort of leverage over something. Nice to spit in the face of the entity that keeps them safe. Obviously, it's a big deal for the US, given that they apparently did zero to oppose it or change it.
 
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Polot
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:25 pm

They are pulling out of MALIAT. I suspect this has more to do with other countries (New Zealand?) than the US, considering what, maybe one US (American Samoan) airline flies there?
 
drdisque
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:29 pm

The only US destination with flights to Samoa is PPG. APW-PPG is flown by one American Samoan carrier and one Samoan carrier. FGI-PPG is flown by two Samoan airlines, meaning that there are 3 total Samoan airlines serving the US and one US airline serving Samoa. If anything, a restricted bilateral will hurt Samoa more as they may be given fewer carriers allocated on the PPG-Apia route.

Maybe there was some sort of regulatory burden or cost that Samoa had to bear in order to keep open skies and this is a cost saving measure.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:55 pm

I wonder if Samoa is starting to decide they want more independence from the US
xx
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:03 pm

usxguy wrote:
I wonder if Samoa is starting to decide they want more independence from the US


Is this Manu Samoa ( Western) not American Samoa ? If so they are already independent.
 
dfw88
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:04 pm

drdisque wrote:
The only US destination with flights to Samoa is PPG. APW-PPG is flown by one American Samoan carrier and one Samoan carrier. FGI-PPG is flown by two Samoan airlines, meaning that there are 3 total Samoan airlines serving the US and one US airline serving Samoa. If anything, a restricted bilateral will hurt Samoa more as they may be given fewer carriers allocated on the PPG-Apia route.

Maybe there was some sort of regulatory burden or cost that Samoa had to bear in order to keep open skies and this is a cost saving measure.


This isn't right. FJ also operates a once weekly flight between APW and HNL. I have no idea what the loads or yields are like, but given the limited air service to Samoa I would guess this is an important flight for them (Samoa, I mean, not necessarily for FJ).
 
drdisque
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:07 pm

dfw88 wrote:
drdisque wrote:
The only US destination with flights to Samoa is PPG. APW-PPG is flown by one American Samoan carrier and one Samoan carrier. FGI-PPG is flown by two Samoan airlines, meaning that there are 3 total Samoan airlines serving the US and one US airline serving Samoa. If anything, a restricted bilateral will hurt Samoa more as they may be given fewer carriers allocated on the PPG-Apia route.

Maybe there was some sort of regulatory burden or cost that Samoa had to bear in order to keep open skies and this is a cost saving measure.


This isn't right. FJ also operates a once weekly flight between APW and HNL. I have no idea what the loads or yields are like, but given the limited air service to Samoa I would guess this is an important flight for them (Samoa, I mean, not necessarily for FJ).


Ah yes, I missed that since I was assuming FJ routes would just be to Fiji. Odd fifth freedom route.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:12 pm

dfw88 wrote:
drdisque wrote:
The only US destination with flights to Samoa is PPG. APW-PPG is flown by one American Samoan carrier and one Samoan carrier. FGI-PPG is flown by two Samoan airlines, meaning that there are 3 total Samoan airlines serving the US and one US airline serving Samoa. If anything, a restricted bilateral will hurt Samoa more as they may be given fewer carriers allocated on the PPG-Apia route.

Maybe there was some sort of regulatory burden or cost that Samoa had to bear in order to keep open skies and this is a cost saving measure.


This isn't right. FJ also operates a once weekly flight between APW and HNL. I have no idea what the loads or yields are like, but given the limited air service to Samoa I would guess this is an important flight for them (Samoa, I mean, not necessarily for FJ).


True, but even most restricted bilaterals allow for 5th freedoms.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:13 pm

NTLDaz wrote:
usxguy wrote:
I wonder if Samoa is starting to decide they want more independence from the US


Is this Manu Samoa ( Western) not American Samoa ? If so they are already independent.


Yes this is referring to Samoa, not American Samoa.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:21 pm

drdisque wrote:
Odd fifth freedom route.


FJ also operate HNL-CXI-NAN. That route, once weekly in each direction, is the only air link between Kiritimati and the outside world.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
rbavfan
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:37 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Well, they filed the notice of withdrawal a year ago, so somebody probably knows why.

Doubtless wanting some sort of leverage over something. Nice to spit in the face of the entity that keeps them safe. Obviously, it's a big deal for the US, given that they apparently did zero to oppose it or change it.


Samoa pulled out, Not American Samoa. two different countries. American Samoa is a US territory.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:03 pm

Rbavfan:
My mistake. Ugh. Embarrassing that I wasn't thinking of the difference. I was asking myself why a US territory would have an open skies agreement with the US and others independent of whatever treaties the US cuts. That should have made me inquire more before speaking. Sorry.
 
smi0006
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:40 pm

Purely random speculation- a symbolic gesture to indicate a slight shifting of relationship with the US and closer ties with Beijing?
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:21 pm

Aren’t they relaunching Samoa Airways as an independent airline? (I think it was flying with Virgin Australia for a while) perhaps this is to protect them?
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:58 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
Aren’t they relaunching Samoa Airways as an independent airline? (I think it was flying with Virgin Australia for a while) perhaps this is to protect them?


Been flying for a bit over a year now. Just about to take delivery of a Max 9 I believe.
 
HNL
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:51 am

Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:12 pm

NTLDaz wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
Aren’t they relaunching Samoa Airways as an independent airline? (I think it was flying with Virgin Australia for a while) perhaps this is to protect them?


Been flying for a bit over a year now. Just about to take delivery of a Max 9 I believe.


Someday they will operate the MAX 9 ;-)
HNL - There's no place like it!
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:14 am

HNL wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
Aren’t they relaunching Samoa Airways as an independent airline? (I think it was flying with Virgin Australia for a while) perhaps this is to protect them?


Been flying for a bit over a year now. Just about to take delivery of a Max 9 I believe.


Someday they will operate the MAX 9 ;-)


Yes, maybe :)

I should have written were about to take delivery.
 
asuflyer
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:24 am

The aircraft will be operated by Fiji Airways. Currently Italian charter airline Neos is operating for them.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:46 am

https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=NSFA&destination=PHNL

Currently, the only flight between the nation of Samoa and the United States is operated by Fiji Airways.

The southern Pacific is much closer tied culturally and economically to New Zealand and Australia. The nation of Samoa, in fact, switched their driving from right-side to left-side to accomodate the large number of people who had lived and driven in Australia and NZ, and they put themselves one day ahead of the surrounding area, so as to be within the same calendar and time region as those places. Therefore, most of the flights will be generated to/from there, rather than the U.S.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Samoa ends Open-Skies agreement with the U.S.

Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:22 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=NSFA&destination=PHNL

Currently, the only flight between the nation of Samoa and the United States is operated by Fiji Airways.

The southern Pacific is much closer tied culturally and economically to New Zealand and Australia. The nation of Samoa, in fact, switched their driving from right-side to left-side to accomodate the large number of people who had lived and driven in Australia and NZ, and they put themselves one day ahead of the surrounding area, so as to be within the same calendar and time region as those places. Therefore, most of the flights will be generated to/from there, rather than the U.S.


Another reason for changing from left hand drive to right hand drive was the availability of second hand cars.

Apparently caused some chaos with buses where passengers had to exit in to traffic.

There are a huge amount of Samoans ( or those with heritage) in Australia and particularly NZ. Same goes with Tonga.

As you said many more flights from Australia/ NZ ( especially NZ ) than anywhere else.

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