Aptivaboy
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American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:49 am

Good evening,

Sorry if this is the wrong forum and moderators please feel to move it if is the wrong forum. My question is, did any American Airlines A330s ever wear the older, long lamented and classy bare metal scheme? I can only find pictures of them in the current livery. Given when they entered fleet my guess is that they did not wear the bare metal scheme, but I wanted to check.

Thank you for any help and have a great evening and a great tomorrow.

Robert
 
mcoatc
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:53 am

Nope. All came from the US Airways side of the merger, or LUS as it's often called on here. If you searched the N numbers you'd see them in their previous liveries. Hope that helps.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:59 am

Thanks, yes I had searched N numbers but as the photographic record is often incomplete I thought I'd ask, thinking that maybe one of the first ones like N270AY might have slipped through the cracks when she showed up on the property. I'm also a scale modeler and the A330 in the older scheme would have looked divine, like the A300s AA once flew. Sigh... I miss those old liveries.

Thank you again!

Robert
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:41 am

As others have noted, AA's A330 fleet came entirely from the merger with US. The new livery was announced in January of 2013 and the merger a month or so later, so there was never a chance of the ex-US birds of any type wearing the much-missed polished aluminum AA livery. Might have been a little behind the times, but that would have looked great on an A330!
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ricpeterson
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:44 am

Aptivaboy, American's 9 A330-300s came on property new at US Airways around 1999 in the dark "Darth Vader" livery. The 15 A330-200s were ordered and delivered after the merger with America West and painted in the "new" post merger US Airways paint scheme, and the 300s were painted to match. After the merger with American all of them were painted in the new AA colors. American operated the A-300 but never operated the A-330 so N270AY would never have had the bare metal livery of AA. The A300 that legacy AA operated was all metal so it could wear the bare metal livery. AA and US employees were allowed to vote for their preference of current new paint scheme or the old AA one. We chose the new one but had the vote been for the old bare metal livery it wouldn't have been bare metal. Because the A330s, B787s, etc. fuselages have parts of or most of their surface comprised of composite material the bare "metal" scheme would not have worked. It would have been a quiltwork of grey, green, and some metal surfaces. So had we chosen the bare scheme it wouldn't have been bare, it would've been a gray like now with the old red, white, and blue stripes with the AA abd eagle on the tail.
 
Byrdluvs747
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:37 am

ricpeterson wrote:
Because the A330s ... fuselages have parts of or most of their surface comprised of composite material the bare "metal" scheme would not have worked. It would have been a quiltwork of grey, green, and some metal surfaces.


Thanks for answering a question I was just about to ask. I wasn't sure how much composite the A330 had.

Another question I have is why AA didn't chose a more metalic paint instead of that sickening grey? Is it an issue of weight, durability, or just the overall cheapness of Parker? The NW silver livery looked better than AA's grey.
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BAeRJ100
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:50 am

Byrdluvs747 wrote:
ricpeterson wrote:
Another question I have is why AA didn't chose a more metalic paint instead of that sickening grey?


As already noted above, the new livery debuted an entire month before the AA/US merger was announced. Parker was inherited from US, he's not responsible for the introduction of that livery like you are trying to imply.
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emerillon99
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:10 am

I would have loved to see something like this
 
soflaflyer
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:27 am

Byrdluvs747 wrote:

Another question I have is why AA didn't chose a more metalic paint instead of that sickening grey? Is it an issue of weight, durability, or just the overall cheapness of Parker? The NW silver livery looked better than AA's grey.


Do you know for a fact that the current AA grey is cheaper than the NW silver??
 
Antarius
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:22 am

soflaflyer wrote:
Byrdluvs747 wrote:

Another question I have is why AA didn't chose a more metalic paint instead of that sickening grey? Is it an issue of weight, durability, or just the overall cheapness of Parker? The NW silver livery looked better than AA's grey.


Do you know for a fact that the current AA grey is cheaper than the NW silver??


Not to mention the livery color was chosen under Horton, not Parker.

I like the gray. When they launched the new livery, the rendering was silvery which I didnt care for as much as what they have in person.
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Aptivaboy
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:10 pm

Because the A330s, B787s, etc. fuselages have parts of or most of their surface comprised of composite material the bare "metal" scheme would not have worked. It would have been a quiltwork of grey, green, and some metal surfaces. So had we chosen the bare scheme it wouldn't have been bare, it would've been a gray like now with the old red, white, and blue stripes with the AA abd eagle on the tail.


Great information, thank you! Any idea on why they chose grey instead of silver? If you're going to overpaint the composites, why did AA go with grey instead of silver? Just curious.

Thank you!
 
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American 767
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:11 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Because the A330s, B787s, etc. fuselages have parts of or most of their surface comprised of composite material the bare "metal" scheme would not have worked. It would have been a quiltwork of grey, green, and some metal surfaces. So had we chosen the bare scheme it wouldn't have been bare, it would've been a gray like now with the old red, white, and blue stripes with the AA abd eagle on the tail.


Great information, thank you! Any idea on why they chose grey instead of silver? If you're going to overpaint the composites, why did AA go with grey instead of silver? Just curious.

Thank you!


Because with more composite materials now being part of aircraft design and building, there are a lot less silver parts than there were 30 or 40 years ago. The previous livery dated from the late 60s/early 70s and at that time airplanes were built with aluminium, so that was why American planes were polished in Aluminium. Their (American) idea was to keep their planes unpainted to save weight and cost, and since then gray became the standard color at American. Notice that on most AA planes, except the 707, 727 and DC-10, the tail was painted in gray even with a polished silver fuselage, that was due to the fact that tails ere made of composite parts. The decision to go with the painted gray livery back in 2013 was because the 787 fuselage was built with carbon composite materials.
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AJRfromSYR
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:19 pm

American 767 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
Because the A330s, B787s, etc. fuselages have parts of or most of their surface comprised of composite material the bare "metal" scheme would not have worked. It would have been a quiltwork of grey, green, and some metal surfaces. So had we chosen the bare scheme it wouldn't have been bare, it would've been a gray like now with the old red, white, and blue stripes with the AA abd eagle on the tail.


Great information, thank you! Any idea on why they chose grey instead of silver? If you're going to overpaint the composites, why did AA go with grey instead of silver? Just curious.

Thank you!


Because with more composite materials now being part of aircraft design and building, there are a lot less silver parts than there were 30 or 40 years ago. The previous livery dated from the late 60s/early 70s and at that time airplanes were built with aluminium, so that was why American planes were polished in Aluminium. Their (American) idea was to keep their planes unpainted to save weight and cost, and since then gray became the standard color at American. Notice that on most AA planes, except the 707, 727 and DC-10, the tail was painted in gray even with a polished silver fuselage, that was due to the fact that tails ere made of composite parts. The decision to go with the painted gray livery back in 2013 was because the 787 fuselage was built with carbon composite materials.


I think the question is why go with gray paint instead of a metallic silver.
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OB1504
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:44 pm

AJRfromSYR wrote:
American 767 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:

Great information, thank you! Any idea on why they chose grey instead of silver? If you're going to overpaint the composites, why did AA go with grey instead of silver? Just curious.

Thank you!


Because with more composite materials now being part of aircraft design and building, there are a lot less silver parts than there were 30 or 40 years ago. The previous livery dated from the late 60s/early 70s and at that time airplanes were built with aluminium, so that was why American planes were polished in Aluminium. Their (American) idea was to keep their planes unpainted to save weight and cost, and since then gray became the standard color at American. Notice that on most AA planes, except the 707, 727 and DC-10, the tail was painted in gray even with a polished silver fuselage, that was due to the fact that tails ere made of composite parts. The decision to go with the painted gray livery back in 2013 was because the 787 fuselage was built with carbon composite materials.


I think the question is why go with gray paint instead of a metallic silver.


Isn’t metallic paint more expensive and complicated to apply? I seem to recall Virgin having some issues with it a few livery iterations ago.
 
Byrdluvs747
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:46 pm

BAeRJ100 wrote:
Parker was inherited from US, he's not responsible for the introduction of that livery like you are trying to imply.


I'll concede that it wasn't Parkers decision, but that doesn't explain why such a ugly grey was chosen over a more metallic paint.

Can anyone answer that question please?


soflaflyer wrote:
Do you know for a fact that the current AA grey is cheaper than the NW silver??


I have never seen a metallic paint that costs less than a base color.
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Boof02671
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:00 pm

Ask Tom Horton, he has about $20 million reasons to answer
 
Wingtips56
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Re: American A330s paint scheme

Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:47 am

From my experience with automobile paint, the metallic paints oxidize faster than regular paint. I could guess the metallics are also heavier. The NW silvered finish wasn't around long enough to tell how it would have held up.
That said, the current AA grey actually has a bit of pearlescent sparkle in full sunshine.

Just wondering out loud; would a metallic finish on a full composite 787 body have taken?

As to the A300, when they first came into the fleet, Airbus wouldn't deliver the planes with bare metal, so they were painted all grey. Wasn't great either, but at least it wasn't patchy with the amount of composite material in the nose, tail empanage and various plates and covers on the fuselage.
FWIW, they painted the ex-AirCal BAe-146s all light grey too, while they stripped the OC 737-100/200/300s to bare metal. Some of the ex-RenoAir fleet were kept as a white base, with the AA cheatlines and tail. Stuck out like a sore thumb....the flat grey of the time at least let them blend in more with the bare metal fleets, and look less like American Eagle. AA did also operate an ex-Western DC-10 (via Delta) with a white base.
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