Noise
Topic Author
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WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 2:42 am

From Yahoo Aviation news:

WestJet Announces Service to Toronto

CALGARY, ALBERTA--WestJet today announced that it is adding service to the new market of Toronto, Ontario starting May 23, 2002. WestJet will offer service from Terminal 3 at Toronto's Pearson International Airport with 13 flights a week between Toronto and Calgary and 13 flights a week between Toronto and Edmonton. One-way fares between Toronto and Calgary will start as low as $205, and one-way fares between Toronto and Edmonton will start as low as $222. Seats are available for sale immediately.

Clive Beddoe, WestJet President and CEO, said today: ``We are pleased to be announcing Toronto today, the newest city in the WestJet network. Toronto and area residents will now be able to take advantage of our unique brand of fun, friendly, low fare air service to western Canada. The Toronto market will be a spoke to our western network and will provide non-stop service from Toronto to Edmonton and Calgary with connections to our Alberta and British Columbia network.

``This is the second city that we have added in 2002, and with the addition of a total of 10 aircraft to our fleet this year, we anticipate adding additional markets, routings, and frequencies across Canada. The Canadian air travel market has recovered well in the first quarter of 2002, and we anticipate that this new market, along with the growth of WestJet in 2002, will make for a very successful year for our airline.''

WestJet serves the 22 Canadian cities of Victoria, Comox, Vancouver, Abbotsford/Fraser Valley, Prince George, Kelowna, Calgary, Edmonton, Grande Prairie, Fort McMurray, Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, Thompson, Sudbury, Sault Ste. Marie, Thunder Bay, London, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto (beginning May 23, 2002), and Moncton. WestJet currently operates a fleet of 28 Boeing 737 aircraft, featuring five state-of-the-art Next-Generation 737-700 aircraft. WestJet is publicly traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange under the symbol WJA
 
Noise
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 2:51 am

Is Montreal next? I for some reason doubt it, but there was an article on todays Montreal Gazette stating the YHU will go through a big expansion and will build a new terminal at the airport.

Personally, I don't understand this. Their hub is in Hamilton, which serves as an alternative to YYZ. So why would WJ fly to YYZ, YHM is also considered a Toronto airport. I guess you can say WJ will now fly to both of Toronto's airports.
 
planeguy
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 3:15 am

Why not serve two airports in the Toronto area? It's a large enough market. After all, serving more than one airport in the same metropolitan area is nothing new. Look at Los Angeles. How many carriers there serve LAX, SNA, ONT, BUR and SNA? In New York a carrier will fly to JFK, EWR and LGA. Toronto is not alone.
 
Noise
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 3:23 am

Yes, but T.O. is not the size of LA or NYC, plus WJ is a smaller airline, not a mega huge airline like AA, DL or US. I am confused with WJ. I really don't know what they are doing. It's not that this is bad, it's just that I am confused. Plus, the flights are to YYC(over 20 daily with AC) and YEG(11 daily with AC). But as long as they are doing well, I don't care.
 
spyderz
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 3:25 am

I don't feel this will be all the expansion at YYZ. It was earlier announced that Westjet would also have non-stop flights to Vancouver, Abbotsford, and Kelowna, but maybe with Tango's presence on these routes, Westjet decided against these cities. Also, it could be because they wouldn't have enough planes to do these routes yet, maybe because the 800's aren't coming. Anyways, I feel it isn't the last time we've heard of YYZ and Westjet.
 
Samurai 777
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 3:30 am

I didn't exactly expect for WJ to serve YYZ so soon, especially when it stated its problems trying to get slots recently! I also have a weird feeling that WJ's set to make even more big announcements within a few weeks, maybe sooner than we think.

This all goes to show you that WestJet is still full of surprises! Big grin
 
dripstick
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 3:31 am

CONGRATS to WestJet!!!

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Andy Vanderheyden


GO GET'EM!
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
Marco
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 3:37 am

Congratulations to WJ!

YYZ certainly needs competition. Let's hope they pick YUL next!
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
ywg777
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RE: What Exactly Are WJ's Expansion Plans

Thu Mar 21, 2002 3:42 am

Way to Go Westjet!!!!!
Hopefully you continue to expand into Toronto. I know you will make your presence there very well known to AC. I hope Westjet does well.


YWG777

I am sure Montreal and Halifax will follow.
 
cylw
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RE: What Exactly Are WJ's Expansion Plans

Thu Mar 21, 2002 5:55 am

This will definitely hurt Hamilton. I don't think YHM can compete with YYZ if the airline is flying to both places. No offence to Hamilton, but I'm pretty sure that at least 50% of the pax that end up in Hamilton continue by other means to Toronto. Now, travellers from the west can "avoid" YHM. Maybe they should have keep YHM as the major hub and have some YHM-YYZ flights!!
 
Noise
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RE: What Exactly Are WJ's Expansion Plans

Thu Mar 21, 2002 6:20 am

As I said before, I am very confused by them adding YYZ and it could not be good for YHM. Now, the pax will be split, therefore a loss in pax for WJ.
 
SafeFlyer
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 6:49 am

Congratz WJ, finally an AC alternative at YYZ. I'm sure the flights will be full, combine with the low-fares and fun atmosphere, they will hurt AC.
 
dripstick
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 6:56 am

Don't discount the fact though the some people would sooner fly out of YHM than YYZ due to convenience of the terminal. It may be small and cramped, but it's also hassle free and quick, something that Pearson rarely is.

They will loose a certain number of pax to YYZ, but nothing too substantial IMHO.

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Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Andy Vanderheyden

What's another word for thesaurus?
 
Dash8King
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 7:57 am

What are you guys talking about? WJ will not lose pax becuase they serve both YHM and YYZ! Those pax that went to YHM from YYZ will now have the convenience to stay in YYZ over all they will gain pax not lose pax. YHM might lose a few pax but when WJ expands out of YHM the amount of pax will grow. Over all WJ will GAIN PAX not lose them.
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 8:02 am

The reason they went into YYZ is simple to understand.

BUSINESS TRAVEL.

YYZ is #1 in Canada for corporate HQ's while YYC is #2. It's as clear as day. The amount of business travel between YYZ and YYC and YEG is huge.

Population isn't everything.
 
Dash8King
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 8:08 am

There is a clear demand for them going yo YYZ, they have been negotiating slots since last year or maybe more. They have been told by the pax that they want direct service from YYZ and since WJ does not have a monopoly they have to listen to the pax unlike another carrier we have in this country. I know many businesses that book with AC to YYZ simply becuase they don't want to have to shuttle there employee's to YHM. There is a demand and this was not something that was planned over night. Tango's fare is $6 dollars cheaper but WJ will still do good there. Noise your only confused becuase they didn't go to YUL well its in the future too.
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 8:42 am

It's like this...

YHM is not an "end of the line" spoke for WJ. With YYZ, Noise, WJ is going, as previously mentioned after business people that travel along the YYC-YYZ and YEG-YYZ corridors. That's it! Nothing else! YHZ's role is entirely seperate from YYZ; it is a "quasi-hub" (it is not by pure definition) that spins off aircraft to YOW, YQM, and soon to be YUL/YHU, YHZ and YYT.

If we move everything to YYZ, pax will have to connect through YYZ from all these eastern cities. Bad idea of course because by using YHM:

- You're avoiding a relatively more difficult connection at YYZ. I'm sure all of you agree it is easier and more pleasant to connect in YHM than YYZ.
- No slots, or interfering traffic to speak of, in YHM.
- Most important here, and that's pure Westjet for Ya: Fees, fees and fees.

Here's a game you all can do at home on your computer:

1. Find a $239 WJ ticket YOW-YEG. Find the total amount with taxes and everything.
2. Find a $219 Tango ticket YOW-YEG. Find the total amount with taxes and everything.
3. Who's cheaper?
4.Surprise, surprise: WJ, by about 40$, one way.

This is why they use YHM.

Regards,
Grégoire
 
Noise
Topic Author
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 8:48 am

Dash8King, yeah your right, but that's not the only thing I'm confused about. If YHM is a Toronto alternative, and people seem to like going to YHM(if they don't, then why is it planned that the airport will reach 1 million pax in 2002), then there is no need to go to YYZ. WJ has YHM all to themselves, they can to anything they want. Now they will be at YYZ and will have adapt to a new environment.

About WJ loosing pax, imagine there is 100 going Hamilton-Calgary on WestJet on a daily basis. When they introduce YYZ-YYC, the pax will be split 50/50, or 75/25. WJ is not entering a new market, they are just flying into the same community but in a different airport. There is the same amount of people wanting to fly WJ, that number never changed. The people of Toronto will have two airports to choose from. The Business travellers might abandon YHM and fly YYZ. Now, who will fill up the gap the business men left at YHM? Do you see what I'm getting at here.
 
fly_yhm
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 8:54 am

now for my 2 cents.


First off this wont hurt YHM at all for the reasons already stated. This also isnt the first time that Westjet has had service to 2 cities so close YXX and YVR are also very close together.

One question I have is now how long is it going to take to get AC here in YHM? Im sure they are a little bothered by this.

Dripstick you have to be from the Hamilton Area are you?

Montreal I think is going to wait till early 2003 or maybe late 2002 I have a feeling that Halifax and St'Johns will come first.

Skyservice Flights out of Hamilton Have been over 85% full on all flights with some being completely full. Just an extra Tidbit for ya.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
Dash8King
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:03 am

Yes but YYZ will also bring in business travelers, not everyone is as flexible to be driving an hour to fly cheaper. Many Businesses will now send their employee's via WJ instead of AC to YYZ. I know of a few that send quite a few to YYZ and would prefer WJ but they can't expect their employee's to shuttle from YHM to YYZ. YHM is a great alternative for the Leisure traveller and it will still be cheaper for them to drive to YHM and go to YEG so they will likely still drive.
 
Noise
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:04 am

Fly_yhm, can you explain to me how the loss of business travellers to YYC and YEG will not effect YHM's growth? Can't you see, YYZ will draw away almost all business travellers from YHM to YYZ, therefore YHM will have to really on it's own business travellers Laugh out loud , which isn't much!
 
Noise
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:08 am

Alright Dash8King, I see what you're getting at, but how many leisure travellers fly to Edmonton or Calgary from Toronto??? Not much, except for those who go to Banff, but besides that, there isn't much!!!
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:08 am

There will be a lot more Pax going through YHM once YUL/YHU, YYT and YHZ open up. It will only increase regardless of YYZ opening.

Maybe less local pax, but again I don't think so...
 
Noise
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:11 am

Oh I'm not denying that cessnapimp, but with every route WJ starts at YYZ, will draw away passengers ON THAT PARTICULAR ROUTE(example, YHM-YYC) from Hamilton.
 
iluvwestjet
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:13 am

Don't have any real comments about service to YYZ except that I like it...

But, made a call to WestJet and found that they will be using Boeing 737-800s for the first 6 months of service for YYC-YYZ. They are configured to seat 160 passengers.

Didn't check on YEG-YYZ though.
 
fallingeese
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:19 am

Noise - the YYC-YHM flights weren't targeting the business traveller. The YYC-YYZ route is the most profitable in the country. How can 13 flights be a bad thing? If you are going to a town closer to YHM then you will fly there, if you are connecting to another eastern city then you go through YHM. YYZ is only going to be used for the highly lucerative transcontinental flights.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
fly_yhm
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:22 am

Noise first off all its only to Edmonton and Calgary you must be forgetting that yhm has direct service to 8 other cites of business and YXX and YLW for mostly leisure also I think a lot of airlines/airports in the world would be in trouble if they relied on business travellers.

I think most of you are forgetting about the 1.7 million people that are in the YHM catchment area even though I have brought it up here many of times.

Then their are all the connecting passengers we have here so don't worry about YHM we will do just great.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
424_sq
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:24 am

Westjet said from the beginning that Hamilton and the surrounding area (Niagara Falls, St. Catharines, Brantford, Cambridge, Waterloo, Oakville, Burlington etc.) had enough population to warrant the service they planned on providing. They were not even worried about attracting people from Toronto.

Yes, WJ service from YHM may lose some some people who came from the Toronto area to fly from Hamilton airport, but WJ sees Toronto as a whole seperate market. There is enough potential passengers to warrant service from both airports.
 
Noise
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:25 am

I see, Fallingeese, well if the YHM-YYC route wasn't targeting the business traveller, then what were they targeting?
 
fallingeese
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:28 am

They were targeting the leisure traveller, which was basically what Westjet's business plan was based on. Who would have guessed that it would be this successful. As 424_sq said there is enough people living around YHM to have service itself.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
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yyz717
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:34 am

YYZ will not hurt YHM. Most of the YHM traffic that WJ has is NEW traffic....WJ tends to create air demand (like SW does in the US). YHM and YYZ are sufficiently far enough apart that they serve diff markets.

moreover, YHM is also an eastern hub. WJ is only interested in serving YYZ from YYC/YEG. YYZ will never be a WJ hub.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
424_sq
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:42 am

Westjet stated previously that they were targeting the passengers who would normally not travel by air , but who may drive or not consider a flight at all because of cost.

Obviously, if you are a business traveller you will not consider driving or another option as time is money. Also, a business traveller does not worry about the overall cost of a flight, as this is generally paid for by the company, and if you are self employed you can write off travel expenses.

 
Cessnapimp
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 10:11 am

To add to Fallingeese's comments, we, in the industry call it the VFR traffic (visiting friends and relatives). 75% of the Canjet loads were just that.
 
fallingeese
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:31 pm

I think that the YYC-YYZ route is really going to get interesting. Tango, Air Canada, and Westjet. Anyone want to guess how long it will take Air Canada to begin predatory pricing?

Fly Westjet! The best airline in the West.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
dripstick
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:36 pm

Predatory pricing?

But that's strictly prohibited!


What's another word for thesaurus?
 
fly_yhm
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:41 pm

They wont drop prices, instead they will come to YHM (tango that is) to compete even more with WJ.

its going to be announced tomorrow





j/k
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
fallingeese
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:46 pm

lol, Dripstick

We all remember Air Canada cutting fares by $1000 when the last competition flew YYC-YYZ.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
dripstick
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:49 pm

Fly_yhm, where did you hear that?

What's another word for thesaurus?
 
dripstick
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:51 pm

Oh...just saw your "j/k". Nevermind.
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
fly_yhm
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:57 pm

Dripstick

what are you hiding you wont reveal where you are from.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
dripstick
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:59 pm

Don't you read profiles?
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
yow
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:20 pm

WJ's entry into YYZ I think is a good idea. For an airport of it's size, it has virtually no cometition domestically at the moment.

WJ's presence will not hurt the YHM hub in any way. YYZ will only be used for point-to-point services, on flight segments of at least 2 hours as the turnaround times would just be too long to make anything shorter economical from there.

By the way the 2 leased 738s appear to be dedicated to the YYZ ops.
 
fly_yhm
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:37 pm

Dripstick

Sorry it hasn't always been their because I looked before.

Where abouts In hamilton?

Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 2:17 pm

Another note:

Some people may think the business traveler will stick with AC on the YYC-YYZ runs because of business class, Aeroplan etc. Obviously this will be true in many cases. But working in a hotel downtown in YYC I talk to many guests and majority of them are booked on flights by their company and had no choice of airline. Many of these companies were switching to C3 because they would save almost 50%. Now C3 I believe had 5 flights a day where as AC at the time had 11. But the C3 flights were at good time (some in morning, and some in evening) so flight times weren't a factor.

I think if WJ uses good judgement with the flight times on these runs that the same thing will happen as was when C3 was around. Companies putting their employees on WJ to save on travel expenses. I'm sure AC will compete, this will be very interesting.

Regards,
Kris
 
Tennisace
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Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:22 am

RE: Getting From YHM Into Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 4:53 pm

Excuse me, I know this is completely off topic. I'm going to be flying into YHM from Vancouver this June(already booked ticket). Can anyone tell me what the easiest way to get from there into downtown Toronto would be? Public transit? Bus? Shuttle? The more specific the better. Thanks a lot!
 
dripstick
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RE: WestJet Announces YYZ Toronto

Thu Mar 21, 2002 9:51 pm

Tennisace,

You can rent a car in advance and pick it up at the counters in the terminal and drive.(Hertz, Avis, National)

or

There is currently a Hamilton bus shuttle that can take you to their mountain station then connect through to downtown Hamilton at which point you can either take the GO train from the Hunter street station to Union Station in Toronto or take a GO bus from their Rebecca St. station to Toronto, your choice.
http://www.city.hamilton.on.ca/hsr/
http://www.gotransit.ca/transit/localtr.htm
http://www.city.hamilton.on.ca/

Hope that helps.


What's another word for thesaurus?
 
Tennisace
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RE: Dripstick

Fri Mar 22, 2002 12:50 am

Thanks, man! That's exactly what I was looking for!