Gulfstream500
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Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:11 am

MILWAUKEE — Midwest Express Airlines is one step closer to becoming a reality once again.

On Thursday, April 11, the group behind the revival announced it’s signed a lease for corporate headquarters space at Mitchell International Airport.


“Establishing our office is a significant step toward fulfilling our commitment to returning Midwest Express Airlines to the sky,” said Greg Aretakis, president of Midwest Express Airlines. “We are looking forward to establishing formal office operations in the coming weeks and continuing on our path toward takeoff.”

The building is located right on the southwest side of the airport property, near the old 440th Base.

At last check, organizers hoped to have planes in the air by 2020

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox6now.co ... rport/amp/
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wjcandee
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:35 am

There was another thread on this.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:46 am

wjcandee wrote:
There was another thread on this.


Old one was April fools, this one is real.
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hpff
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:56 am

I look forward to more chocolate chip cookies while sitting in spacious leather seats on MD-80s while lighting business plans on fire.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:08 am

hpff wrote:
I look forward to more chocolate chip cookies while sitting in spacious leather seats on MD-80s while lighting business plans on fire.


They’ll fail if they use a 2-2 instead of 2-3 or 3-3 seating layout... little profitability.
What's the deal with airplane food?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:15 am

They will fail if they use RJ’s.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:14 am

It's still kinda April Fools, even if it isn't.
 
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qfs
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:25 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
They will fail if they use RJ’s.


Agreed. They should order some Dash 8's :lol:
 
commpilot
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:32 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
They will fail if they use RJ’s.


They will fail period. The real airline execs with all their experience would be running the biz model if it was highly successful, but as history has shown us...it's a huge failure. Who is giving the money to just pay themselves?
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:13 am

Did the original YX ever consider getting MD-90s?
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kabq737
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:45 am

wjcandee wrote:
It's still kinda April Fools, even if it isn't.

Funny how that works isn’t it? Lol
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Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:19 am

mke717spotter wrote:
Did the original YX ever consider getting MD-90s?


Not sure. Would be cool if they acquired retired DL MD-90s, though.
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:49 am

[twoid][/twoid]
Gulfstream500 wrote:
mke717spotter wrote:
Did the original YX ever consider getting MD-90s?


Not sure. Would be cool if they acquired retired DL MD-90s, though.

They could make use of where the engines get serviced and run a very underserved route: MKE-SFO-HNL-PPG-CHC.

:duck:

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DL717
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:59 am

mke717spotter wrote:
Did the original YX ever consider getting MD-90s?


They wanted the long range/HGW 717-200 to hit the west coast from a MKE. Not sure what happened there. That was the whole impetus for MCI. I think there was even a 717-300 on the drawing board for a bit they were interest in along with DL and a few others, but it never went anywhere. Without 9/11 they might well be flying today, with 88 seat all business 717 and the dork jets. The 428 program cancellation dashed a lot of their dreams for the future of SkyWay. Everything just kind of fell apart. If these guys really want to bring it back, they should order up a bunch of A220s if they can. Back fill the regional service with a 40 seat config ATR42 and make a run for it.
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AA737-823
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:19 am

commpilot wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
They will fail if they use RJ’s.


They will fail period. The real airline execs with all their experience would be running the biz model if it was highly successful, but as history has shown us...it's a huge failure. Who is giving the money to just pay themselves?


You may prove right, BUT, it's worth noting that their business plan was successful for about THIRTY YEARS.
Can UniDeltiCan pull off the YX plan?
Of course not.
But that doesn't mean that a smaller carrier can't.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:49 am

Would the E190 make a good fleet? AA and JetBlue will be getting rid of theirs soon and they could pick them up at a reasonable price I would think.
 
COSPN
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:28 pm

There is lots of cheap office space for rent in Milwaukee .. no need to be at the airport Need an AOC (airline operating certificate) buy another airline is the quickest ... buildings come last
 
jbooser
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:55 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Would the E190 make a good fleet? AA and JetBlue will be getting rid of theirs soon and they could pick them up at a reasonable price I would think.


E-190 isn’t a good aircraft. There’s a reason why AA and B6 are getting rid of them and it’s due to high maintenance costs and overall reliability.
 
UWPAviation
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:56 pm

As a fellow Wisconsinite and someone who absolutely loved and misses Midwest, I hate to say it but there really is not any space for them anymore. Where are they going to fly to out of MKE that already isnt served? Then the problem comes in of price. Lets say they are going to fly to LGA. Well DL and WN already fly that route with pretty cheap tickets.

I just do not see them being competitive out of a pretty competitive and price sensitive market like MKE. Not wishing any ill will, but I just cant see this being viable. If they are relying just on the name...that is not going to take them very far.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:34 pm

AA737-823 wrote:
commpilot wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
They will fail if they use RJ’s.


They will fail period. The real airline execs with all their experience would be running the biz model if it was highly successful, but as history has shown us...it's a huge failure. Who is giving the money to just pay themselves?


You may prove right, BUT, it's worth noting that their business plan was successful for about THIRTY YEARS.
Can UniDeltiCan pull off the YX plan?
Of course not.
But that doesn't mean that a smaller carrier can't.


It did work for a while but the environment changed and their business plan no longer worked in the industry. Two things that really hur YX were the dramatic rise in fuel and the growth of WN & other LCCs, especially into their core markets (MKE and eventually MCI). As fuel rose and the all biz class model became unsustainable they had to add additional seats opting for traditional coach style seats 2x3 in the M80/DC9/717. Once they did that to increase revenue to offset fuel cost increases, their product became no different that what WN and others were selling. Keep in mind that in their all biz class seating they were pricing at traditional coach fares. So if you degrade the seat from there, you almost have to degrade the price. Their whole reason for being ended with that.

Fuel hasn't gone down to the levels it was at for most of their business life meaning it will be unlikely that you can offer the all biz class seating at coach fares profitably. Then what is your differentiator?
 
steeler83
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:02 pm

UWPAviation wrote:
As a fellow Wisconsinite and someone who absolutely loved and misses Midwest, I hate to say it but there really is not any space for them anymore. Where are they going to fly to out of MKE that already isnt served? Then the problem comes in of price. Lets say they are going to fly to LGA. Well DL and WN already fly that route with pretty cheap tickets.

I just do not see them being competitive out of a pretty competitive and price sensitive market like MKE. Not wishing any ill will, but I just cant see this being viable. If they are relying just on the name...that is not going to take them very far.

Agreed here. In order to be competitive, they'll have to charge pretty cheap fares to fill their planes. Yields, I'm sure are going to be in the toilet if they're not already between DL and WN. No way do I see this route being profitable or any route for that matter. Other airlines have stepped in and filled in gaps with P2P flying. What viable city pairs are left out of MKE or anywhere where a new airline can come in and fill a 100-120-seat aircraft and be profitable? Forget about regional aircraft; even with a 100 LF their CASM will render any city pair rather difficult if not impossible to turn a profit.
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2175301
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:13 pm

As one who used to fly Midwest (a frequent flyer): The original Midwest focused on premium seating serving the regional business market. Things went noticably downhill when they started serving the west cost leisure passenger market. Most flights to Seattle and back I took were filled with tourist, and the tickets were priced more for tourist, even thought the seating was premium. In my opinion, that was what killed them.

I believe that they could succeed by going back to the old model. Principally regional service for business people, priced accordingly. Forget the tourist market to the east and west coast.

I look forward to flying them again..

Have a great day,
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Fly a plane that can hold 130 seats with only 88 seats and you will ultimately fail. Simple math.
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:00 pm

jbooser wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Would the E190 make a good fleet? AA and JetBlue will be getting rid of theirs soon and they could pick them up at a reasonable price I would think.


E-190 isn’t a good aircraft. There’s a reason why AA and B6 are getting rid of them and it’s due to high maintenance costs and overall reliability.


Low cost of acquisition can offset the higher cost of maintenance. Otherwise known as the Allegiant model.
 
dmg626
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:05 pm

Maybe a code share with Eastern or PanAm version 4.0 ? May as well put all the pipe dreams together
 
2175301
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:17 pm

To clarify what I think the market is: Primarily business travelers to St. Louis, Kansas City, etc where there are currently no direct flights (and even the connecting flights are expensive unless you book a month or more in advance). That was what the original Midwest was based on. Saved a lot of time waiting in other airports, and you had business class seats and good customer service. The aircraft will not be a current mainline aircraft - they are too large. I would expect 30-50 seats per aircraft.

Have a great day,
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:56 pm

2175301 wrote:
To clarify what I think the market is: Primarily business travelers to St. Louis, Kansas City, etc where there are currently no direct flights (and even the connecting flights are expensive unless you book a month or more in advance). That was what the original Midwest was based on. Saved a lot of time waiting in other airports, and you had business class seats and good customer service. The aircraft will not be a current mainline aircraft - they are too large. I would expect 30-50 seats per aircraft.

Have a great day,


You mean like OneJet???
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MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:25 pm

2175301 wrote:
To clarify what I think the market is: Primarily business travelers to St. Louis, Kansas City, etc where there are currently no direct flights (and even the connecting flights are expensive unless you book a month or more in advance). That was what the original Midwest was based on. Saved a lot of time waiting in other airports, and you had business class seats and good customer service. The aircraft will not be a current mainline aircraft - they are too large. I would expect 30-50 seats per aircraft.

Have a great day,


I agree but at the time MKE in particular was under-served by traditional hub-and-spoke airlines (except NW on-and-off) & not served at all by WN. Not sure the market is there from MKE this time around. But I'd love to see them back and successful. Were one of the best US airlines in terms of service and branding IMO.
 
KCaviator
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:47 pm

Call me crazy, but I could see the CRJ-550 working for them. They'd be able to offer a decent first class, and have room for VFR traffic as well. Outsource the flying to Air Wisconsin.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:53 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
2175301 wrote:
To clarify what I think the market is: Primarily business travelers to St. Louis, Kansas City, etc where there are currently no direct flights (and even the connecting flights are expensive unless you book a month or more in advance). That was what the original Midwest was based on. Saved a lot of time waiting in other airports, and you had business class seats and good customer service. The aircraft will not be a current mainline aircraft - they are too large. I would expect 30-50 seats per aircraft.

Have a great day,


You mean like OneJet???


Well....hopefully they learned from that mistake!
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:09 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
2175301 wrote:
To clarify what I think the market is: Primarily business travelers to St. Louis, Kansas City, etc where there are currently no direct flights (and even the connecting flights are expensive unless you book a month or more in advance). That was what the original Midwest was based on. Saved a lot of time waiting in other airports, and you had business class seats and good customer service. The aircraft will not be a current mainline aircraft - they are too large. I would expect 30-50 seats per aircraft.

Have a great day,


You mean like OneJet???


Well....hopefully they learned from that mistake!


Interesting if it is, as there was Midwest Express people on the board of J1.
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jetskipper
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:24 pm

I hope the office they lease has a vault, otherwise they will have to do daily cash offloads down to the Federal Reserve in Chicago.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:00 pm

I'm sure the execs know the CRJ isnt a viable option for the operation they intend to run. I am sure they have plans. Would love to see them get perhaps some A220's though! Really excited to see what comes of this airline. I miss Midwest, and I would love to see them back in the air. Sounds like they have some pretty good leadership in place already!
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Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:17 am

I found a route map that was an analysis of what OneJet would do in MKE. Appearantly they thought they were going to try a full-out focus city in MKE. This might be a good guide for what new Midwest Air will do:

https://public.tableau.com/views/OneJet ... VizHome=no
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DL717
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:13 am

TVNWZ wrote:
Fly a plane that can hold 130 seats with only 88 seats and you will ultimately fail. Simple math.


Actually, the 717 was saving the company. They ultimately got the 717 for $25 million a copy taking some of the TWA order along with AirTran, list was $37.5 million and even at that price the math was pretty damn good for an 88 seat config that was able to command a premium. Delta placed a $10 billion order for 500 CRJs around that same time frame, so again, that was some pretty damn good math as those too were at a discount. Ironic that DL has most of the 717s out there. As mentioned by someone above, trying to serve the west coast with the fleet they had forced a second hub and blew up the cost of the operation. The MD-90 was also dead by then or they might have gotten a handful of those to reach the west coast to replace the dying MD-80 fleet out of MKE.
Last edited by DL717 on Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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rj777
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:13 am

One thing I'm wondering...... a lot of gates at MKE are already taken by DL........ so what gates would they go out of? Maybe take the former OneJet Gates in D?...... or share with F9.... the E concourse is all but gone and Southwest and United have all of C.
 
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DL717
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:15 am

rj777 wrote:
One thing I'm wondering...... a lot of gates at MKE are already taken by DL........ so what gates would they go out of? Maybe take the former OneJet Gates in D?...... or share with F9.... the E concourse is all but gone and Southwest and United have all of C.


There are several gates that are currently closed. I think a couple of restaurants are using them for overflow. If it went legit, they could probably dust off the old Master Plan that had a new terminal where cargo is.
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Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:48 pm

rj777 wrote:
One thing I'm wondering...... a lot of gates at MKE are already taken by DL........ so what gates would they go out of? Maybe take the former OneJet Gates in D?...... or share with F9.... the E concourse is all but gone and Southwest and United have all of C.


Simple! Operate as a public charter, and go through the private terminal. Or, just use former J1 gates.
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MKE22
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:01 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
rj777 wrote:
One thing I'm wondering...... a lot of gates at MKE are already taken by DL........ so what gates would they go out of? Maybe take the former OneJet Gates in D?...... or share with F9.... the E concourse is all but gone and Southwest and United have all of C.


Simple! Operate as a public charter, and go through the private terminal. Or, just use former J1 gates.


That would make sense, since YX had those gates for Midwest Connect ops. Maybe they could split with G4 or Alaska as well if they are looking to ramp up ops fast (pipe dreaming). AS only has 1x/Daily MKE-SEA IIRC and G4 only flies to PIE on a weekly/non-seasonal basis as of now. The rest of G4 ops, again IIRC, are seasonal.
 
commpilot
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:02 pm

AA737-823 wrote:
commpilot wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
They will fail if they use RJ’s.


They will fail period. The real airline execs with all their experience would be running the biz model if it was highly successful, but as history has shown us...it's a huge failure. Who is giving the money to just pay themselves?


You may prove right, BUT, it's worth noting that their business plan was successful for about THIRTY YEARS.
Can UniDeltiCan pull off the YX plan?
Of course not.
But that doesn't mean that a smaller carrier can't.


The old Midwest had garbage for cash flow, why do you think they couldn't modernize their fleet until the sweetheart deal Boeing gave them on the 717s. Tim H ran the airline for his own private riches. Also after post 9/11 got into a long period of not paying their rent to stay in business.

If no other highly consolidated major airline with revenues that could support a failed experiment can't do it then surely an almost under fund start up has zero chance. Look at the struggle Virgin America had getting passengers and breaking even in solid business markets. Independence Air had a full fleet of CRJ-200s and then wasted money on buying A319s to under utilize them. ExpressJet self branding again had planes to fly right away too.

It takes $100s of Millions to open the doors on an airline, they are shooting for $5-6 Million to buy someone else's Part 121 certificate thinking that will give them a turn key airline?!? Milwaukee is a very loyal city and Midwest slammed the door in their faces because Tim H wanted his retirement cake and parachute too. People will never pay the prices it will take to keep small low density planes in the air, otherwise all the major airlines would have their First Class seats fully book on every flight. As for Milwaukee, SWA and DL have all of the old Midwest business, they will fight for that all day long.
 
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JBo
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:46 pm

DL717 wrote:
mke717spotter wrote:
Did the original YX ever consider getting MD-90s?


They wanted the long range/HGW 717-200 to hit the west coast from a MKE. Not sure what happened there. That was the whole impetus for MCI. I think there was even a 717-300 on the drawing board for a bit they were interest in along with DL and a few others, but it never went anywhere. Without 9/11 they might well be flying today, with 88 seat all business 717 and the dork jets. The 428 program cancellation dashed a lot of their dreams for the future of SkyWay. Everything just kind of fell apart. If these guys really want to bring it back, they should order up a bunch of A220s if they can. Back fill the regional service with a 40 seat config ATR42 and make a run for it.


The original YX had 737s on order around 2004, but they were never able to secure the financing for them and the order was canceled. I believe it was going to be a mix of -700 and -800, or -700 only.

They also were going to order ERJ-140s to expand the Skyway fleet, but that also never came to fruition for the same reasons. At one point, Skyway was also going to operate for DL to fly the 328s left by ACA when they transitioned to Independence Air, but that also never panned out.

I also recall there ended up being some legal disputes between YX and Fairchild-Dornier over the cancellation of the 428JET program (Skyway was to be a launch customer), and I believe there ended up being a settlement where YX was compensated financially and I think they ended up getting a couple more 328s out of it.

Knope2001 has encyclopedic knowledge about YX history, so I'm waiting for him to catch this thread.

Also, as a YX alum, I'd personally prefer the airline and its brand to remain dead. Uncle Timmy ran the ship into the ground. The industry was changing and he didn't have the knowledge or ability to change Midwest's business model along with it, and his ego prevented him from handing the reins off to someone who could.

Unless a revived YX catered solely to business travelers offering solely premium prices to high-demand point-to-point markets, as something nestled between regular scheduled carrier services and business charters, I don't see it being viable.
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TVNWZ
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:13 pm

Hoeksema gets a bad rap. Without his vision and leadership there would be no Midwest. Pretty impressive that a chief pilot of a paper company fleet can talk everyone into starting up a boutique airline . From Milwaukee no less. Success has a thousand fathers. Failure is an orphan.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:49 pm

commpilot wrote:
AA737-823 wrote:
commpilot wrote:

They will fail period. The real airline execs with all their experience would be running the biz model if it was highly successful, but as history has shown us...it's a huge failure. Who is giving the money to just pay themselves?


You may prove right, BUT, it's worth noting that their business plan was successful for about THIRTY YEARS.
Can UniDeltiCan pull off the YX plan?
Of course not.
But that doesn't mean that a smaller carrier can't.


The old Midwest had garbage for cash flow, why do you think they couldn't modernize their fleet until the sweetheart deal Boeing gave them on the 717s. Tim H ran the airline for his own private riches. Also after post 9/11 got into a long period of not paying their rent to stay in business.

If no other highly consolidated major airline with revenues that could support a failed experiment can't do it then surely an almost under fund start up has zero chance. Look at the struggle Virgin America had getting passengers and breaking even in solid business markets. Independence Air had a full fleet of CRJ-200s and then wasted money on buying A319s to under utilize them. ExpressJet self branding again had planes to fly right away too.

It takes $100s of Millions to open the doors on an airline, they are shooting for $5-6 Million to buy someone else's Part 121 certificate thinking that will give them a turn key airline?!? Milwaukee is a very loyal city and Midwest slammed the door in their faces because Tim H wanted his retirement cake and parachute too. People will never pay the prices it will take to keep small low density planes in the air, otherwise all the major airlines would have their First Class seats fully book on every flight. As for Milwaukee, SWA and DL have all of the old Midwest business, they will fight for that all day long.


They could buy CPAir or Great Lakes if either still have an active certificate.
What's the deal with airplane food?
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:14 am

dmg626 wrote:
Maybe a code share with Eastern or PanAm version 4.0 ? May as well put all the pipe dreams together


Nah, I see Midwest v.2.0 codesharing with Baltia before a codeshare with EA v.3.1 or PanAm v.4.0. And that's before they all merge with B*. :lol:
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: (TBD)
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:47 am

TWFlyGuy wrote:
AA737-823 wrote:
commpilot wrote:

They will fail period. The real airline execs with all their experience would be running the biz model if it was highly successful, but as history has shown us...it's a huge failure. Who is giving the money to just pay themselves?


You may prove right, BUT, it's worth noting that their business plan was successful for about THIRTY YEARS.
Can UniDeltiCan pull off the YX plan?
Of course not.
But that doesn't mean that a smaller carrier can't.


It did work for a while but the environment changed and their business plan no longer worked in the industry. Two things that really hur YX were the dramatic rise in fuel and the growth of WN & other LCCs, especially into their core markets (MKE and eventually MCI). As fuel rose and the all biz class model became unsustainable they had to add additional seats opting for traditional coach style seats 2x3 in the M80/DC9/717. Once they did that to increase revenue to offset fuel cost increases, their product became no different that what WN and others were selling. Keep in mind that in their all biz class seating they were pricing at traditional coach fares. So if you degrade the seat from there, you almost have to degrade the price. Their whole reason for being ended with that.

Fuel hasn't gone down to the levels it was at for most of their business life meaning it will be unlikely that you can offer the all biz class seating at coach fares profitably. Then what is your differentiator?


Considering that Biz class seating today is the uncomfortable coach seats of twenty years ago, I’d say they have a chance to build a niche. YX’s saving grace in the beginning is that raising enough cash to survive was not the priority, since father corporate was paying the bills. Also, there were other All- Biz projects at the time they started, such as Air One, Grand, and Air Atlanta. Today, there is no such competition out there. Keep t small, keep it lean, and keep the stock markets out of it, and they could stand a real,chance of making it work.
 
rj777
Posts: 1778
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:47 am

Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:13 am

Considering that Biz class seating today is the uncomfortable coach seats of twenty years ago, I’d say they have a chance to build a niche. YX’s saving grace in the beginning is that raising enough cash to survive was not the priority, since father corporate was paying the bills. Also, there were other All- Biz projects at the time they started, such as Air One, Grand, and Air Atlanta. Today, there is no such competition out there. Keep t small, keep it lean, and keep the stock markets out of it, and they could stand a real,chance of making it work.

But don't forget the cookies!
 
mandala499
Posts: 6587
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:22 am

If they go with the original MidWest Express business model using a 2-2 seating on a 5 abreast T-tailed jet, they could go to COMAC and see if they can get huge steep discounts on the ARJ21s... :)
Jokes aside...
So, what will they use?
Ex Interjet SSJs? Or order new A220s? :)
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
Gulfstream500
Topic Author
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:29 pm

mandala499 wrote:
If they go with the original MidWest Express business model using a 2-2 seating on a 5 abreast T-tailed jet, they could go to COMAC and see if they can get huge steep discounts on the ARJ21s... :)
Jokes aside...
So, what will they use?
Ex Interjet SSJs? Or order new A220s? :)


Honestly, going to COMAC for a deal isn’t a horrible idea. They probably will go with the ERJ 145, E170/190, CRJ if they use regional aircraft. If they use mainline, it will most definitely be an A319.

I think there is a strong possibility of them buying Ultimate, as J1 got pretty close - and they went bankrupt a few months later.
What's the deal with airplane food?
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:12 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Honestly, going to COMAC for a deal isn’t a horrible idea.

Sure, it'll leave them about 10 years to secure financing and see how the market evolve before they get the first plane...
 
Gulfstream500
Topic Author
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:18 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Honestly, going to COMAC for a deal isn’t a horrible idea.

Sure, it'll leave them about 10 years to secure financing and see how the market evolve before they get the first plane...


If I’m not mistaken, a US leasing company has five coming in the late 2019-2020 timeframe.
What's the deal with airplane food?

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