YYZORD
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Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like SIN-SEA

Wed May 15, 2019 8:30 pm

I was comparing the ranges for both the 787-10 and A350-900 from Singapore Changi and I see that Vancouver is in the 787-10 range while Seattle is a bit off the range. Is this why the SIN-SEA route will have a A350-900 instead of the 787-10? Also what is the feasibility for a SIN-YVR route if the 787-10 was viable for that route vs the feasibility of an A350 being used on the same route like SIN-SEA?

Another thing I wanted to mention about SG's fleet is that I saw the A350-900 range borders both ORD and YYZ so I'm confused as to if the aircraft can also fly to those destinations non-stop or would they need an A350ULR like SG uses on SIN-EWR?
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Wed May 15, 2019 8:57 pm

AFAIK, the 787-10 is more of a regional workhorse for SQ while the A359 is the designated long range plane. I don't think it operates any routes outside Australasia. If YVR gets added, I'd assume that'd be an A359 as well.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
Motorhussy
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Wed May 15, 2019 8:59 pm

SQ 787-10’s are not configured for longhaul. And in reality, couldn’t do a route like that with a meaningful load.
come visit the south pacific
 
alan3
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Wed May 15, 2019 9:17 pm

In general can 787-10's do Transpacific like West Coast to China/Japan/Hong Kong. Or is it more like an A330-300, meant for high density but medium haul?
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Wed May 15, 2019 9:24 pm

alan3 wrote:
In general can 787-10's do Transpacific like West Coast to China/Japan/Hong Kong. Or is it more like an A330-300, meant for high density but medium haul?


Part of that answer depends on how its configured. United's 781's should be able to do SFO to ICN, NRT and the like. It's in the neighborhood of a ten hour airplane.
 
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keesje
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Wed May 15, 2019 10:41 pm

It seems one can carry significant more payload on 7000NM.

Image

Specially from hot SIN, where wingloading plays a role.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Wed May 15, 2019 10:57 pm

I don’t thInk SQs 787-10s could make it. With the exception of the A380, the 787-10s have more seats than any other plane in the SQ fleet. The 787-10 has 10% more seats than the A350s used for long haul. That is too many seats to make it that far
 
leftcoast8
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Wed May 15, 2019 11:31 pm

I don't think SQ will serve YVR for a long time. I'm surprised they even started 4 weekly to SEA considering they went all in with SFO and LAX. Perhaps it's to capture tech traffic.

-Singapore is a tech hub and a gateway to India. 9% of SG citizens/PRs are of Indian descent. YVR used HKG (a route with lots of business demand) as its main gateway to India for decades.
-There's a large AMZN/MSFT presence in Delhi, Bengaluru and Hyderabad. AMZN opened its new campus in Hyd about a month ago, which houses half of the company's 60,000 headcount in India.
-Sea-Tac has only one Chinese carrier at the moment, Hainan, whereas U.S. carriers have given up on India. Emirates and SQ can handle a lot of the high-yielding corporate demand fuelled by the tech industry, whereas YVR is flooded with Chinese carriers that offer cheap 1-stop flights to India (this caters to the mostly working-class Indian population in Vancouver). I presume that the PRC's Belt and Road Initiative (the so-called "$1 trillion New Silk Road") will only increase the Ind-China traffic in the coming years.

There's a lot of business travel between the Puget Sound and India, despite the Indian population of Metro Vancouver being much larger. Most Indo-Canadians in Metro Vancouver came in three or four waves:

1. The early labourers from Punjab who worked on the railroad, and settled in BC

2. Family reunification after the federal government removed immigration quotas in the 1960s. Many were relatives of the original settlers from Punjab.

3. Starting in 1984-85, many Sikh refugees fled anti-Sikh violence in India that followed Indira Gandhi's assassination (which in turn was triggered by the Indian Govt's storming of the Golden Temple in Amritsar that June). Most of the refugees ended up settling in in Metro Vancouver. Along with family reunification, this was the main source of Indo-Canadian immigration to Metro Vancouver throughout the 1980s and 90s

4. In the post-9/11 fallout, Parliament passed the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act in 2002, which shifted the focus of Canada's immigration policy from poorer labourers/refugees to more highly-qualified skilled workers. Another motivation for this change were the effects of globalization and technological advances in the 90s and 2000s, as well as Canada's declining birthrate, both contributing to a shortage of labour shortage. Much of the Indian migration to Metro Vancouver since 9/11 has been under the skilled worker class, alongside family reunification.

In modern times, the U.S. has had a much stricter immigration policy than Canada, so not as many Indians ended up settling in the Puget Sound, other than skilled workers in the last 10-15 years. They mostly live in Bellevue/Redmond and work in tech.

The long and short of it is, Vancouver's Indian population = mostly working-class, travel to India is biased towards VFR. Seattle's Indian population = mostly professional, travel to India has more business demand. Also many tech corporations HQ'd in the Puget Sound have offices in India; not many companies HQ'd in BC have a large Indian presence. Most of the corporate demand to India is based around Toronto and the 905 belt.

I'm not sure about demand from Seattle to other major Indian centres (Kolkata, Chennai, Mumbai, etc.), nor do I know if there's lots of travel motivated by Seattle's other tech anchors (Expedia, Tableau, Blue Origin, Uber, Lyft, Airbnb, Stripe, etc.) to India or Singapore. Grab, which has taken SG by storm, has an engineering office at the Columbia Center in downtown Seattle.
 
behramjee
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Wed May 15, 2019 11:33 pm

The B787-10 can fly 11.5-12 hours maximum with a full payload. Its current longest scheduled flights in S19 and in S20 are TLV-EWR on UA and AMS-SFO on KL.

SIN-SEA is 14 hours 40 minutes block time so unfortunately the B781 cannot operate this route nonstop.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 12:03 am

It could fly the distance nonstop, but with payload restrictions severe enough that there is no chance the payload would be economic.

But this is all moot as SQ's 787-10 is configured for regional, not intercontinental, service. The A350-900 is the aircraft configured for this sort of route.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 12:16 am

behramjee wrote:
The B787-10 can fly 11.5-12 hours maximum with a full payload. Its current longest scheduled flights in S19 and in S20 are TLV-EWR on UA and AMS-SFO on KL.

SIN-SEA is 14 hours 40 minutes block time so unfortunately the B781 cannot operate this route nonstop.

*78X
 
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zeke
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 12:17 am

behramjee wrote:
The B787-10 can fly 11.5-12 hours maximum with a full payload. Its current longest scheduled flights in S19 and in S20 are TLV-EWR on UA and AMS-SFO on KL.

SIN-SEA is 14 hours 40 minutes block time so unfortunately the B781 cannot operate this route nonstop.


The 787-10 can do around 4000 nm/8 hrs with full payload before being MTOW limited.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
c933103
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 12:22 am

leftcoast8 wrote:
I don't think SQ will serve YVR for a long time. I'm surprised they even started 4 weekly to SEA considering they went all in with SFO and LAX. Perhaps it's to capture tech traffic.

-Singapore is a tech hub and a gateway to India. 9% of SG citizens/PRs are of Indian descent. YVR used HKG (a route with lots of business demand) as its main gateway to India for decades.
-There's a large AMZN/MSFT presence in Delhi, Bengaluru and Hyderabad. AMZN opened its new campus in Hyd about a month ago, which houses half of the company's 60,000 headcount in India.
-Sea-Tac has only one Chinese carrier at the moment, Hainan, whereas U.S. carriers have given up on India. Emirates and SQ can handle a lot of the high-yielding corporate demand fuelled by the tech industry, whereas YVR is flooded with Chinese carriers that offer cheap 1-stop flights to India (this caters to the mostly working-class Indian population in Vancouver). I presume that the PRC's Belt and Road Initiative (the so-called "$1 trillion New Silk Road") will only increase the Ind-China traffic in the coming years.

There's a lot of business travel between the Puget Sound and India, despite the Indian population of Metro Vancouver being much larger. Most Indo-Canadians in Metro Vancouver came in three or four waves:

1. The early labourers from Punjab who worked on the railroad, and settled in BC

2. Family reunification after the federal government removed immigration quotas in the 1960s. Many were relatives of the original settlers from Punjab.

3. Starting in 1984-85, many Sikh refugees fled anti-Sikh violence in India that followed Indira Gandhi's assassination (which in turn was triggered by the Indian Govt's storming of the Golden Temple in Amritsar that June). Most of the refugees ended up settling in in Metro Vancouver. Along with family reunification, this was the main source of Indo-Canadian immigration to Metro Vancouver throughout the 1980s and 90s

4. In the post-9/11 fallout, Parliament passed the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act in 2002, which shifted the focus of Canada's immigration policy from poorer labourers/refugees to more highly-qualified skilled workers. Another motivation for this change were the effects of globalization and technological advances in the 90s and 2000s, as well as Canada's declining birthrate, both contributing to a shortage of labour shortage. Much of the Indian migration to Metro Vancouver since 9/11 has been under the skilled worker class, alongside family reunification.

In modern times, the U.S. has had a much stricter immigration policy than Canada, so not as many Indians ended up settling in the Puget Sound, other than skilled workers in the last 10-15 years. They mostly live in Bellevue/Redmond and work in tech.

The long and short of it is, Vancouver's Indian population = mostly working-class, travel to India is biased towards VFR. Seattle's Indian population = mostly professional, travel to India has more business demand. Also many tech corporations HQ'd in the Puget Sound have offices in India; not many companies HQ'd in BC have a large Indian presence. Most of the corporate demand to India is based around Toronto and the 905 belt.

I'm not sure about demand from Seattle to other major Indian centres (Kolkata, Chennai, Mumbai, etc.), nor do I know if there's lots of travel motivated by Seattle's other tech anchors (Expedia, Tableau, Blue Origin, Uber, Lyft, Airbnb, Stripe, etc.) to India or Singapore. Grab, which has taken SG by storm, has an engineering office at the Columbia Center in downtown Seattle.

I don't think Indian is the main reason for them to operate either of the two routes.
This is a placeholder.
 
alan3
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 12:31 am

If SQ restarts SIN-YVR that they dropped some years back really depends on what market they’re going after .

YVR has more Chinese carriers than any other airport in North America and as mentioned above they already provide cheap connections to India and Southeast Asia.

Australia? YVR already has 3 Australian routes with an AC-VA tie up for connections.

So that leaves connecting traffic from the US? Possibly.
 
YYZORD
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like SIN-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 12:55 am

SQ seems like the only asian airline other than OZ that doesn't serve YVR but serves SEA. I'm not counting EK cause that's a middle eastern carrier and politics is why EK can't serve YVR. AC already serves ICN as a *A carrier and OZ financial problems, we will likely not see them serving YVR for awhile especially after cutting ORD. This leaves SQ as the only asian airline that is missing from YVR but could be served in the future. SQ even mentioned that YVR is a likely destination that they could add as it's the most unserved destination from SIN with most pax according to an article.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like SIN-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 2:12 am

Don't forget that SQ has a codeshare agreement with AS through SEA.
 
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lydh
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 2:37 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
behramjee wrote:
The B787-10 can fly 11.5-12 hours maximum with a full payload. Its current longest scheduled flights in S19 and in S20 are TLV-EWR on UA and AMS-SFO on KL.

SIN-SEA is 14 hours 40 minutes block time so unfortunately the B781 cannot operate this route nonstop.

*78X


Pretty sure it’s 78J?
 
EChid
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 2:40 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
behramjee wrote:
The B787-10 can fly 11.5-12 hours maximum with a full payload. Its current longest scheduled flights in S19 and in S20 are TLV-EWR on UA and AMS-SFO on KL.

SIN-SEA is 14 hours 40 minutes block time so unfortunately the B781 cannot operate this route nonstop.

*78X

Actually, if you want to get really punctilious, it's:

ICAO = B78X (it's always 4 characters, not 3)
IATA = 781 (always 3)
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 2:52 am

zeke wrote:
behramjee wrote:
The B787-10 can fly 11.5-12 hours maximum with a full payload. Its current longest scheduled flights in S19 and in S20 are TLV-EWR on UA and AMS-SFO on KL.

SIN-SEA is 14 hours 40 minutes block time so unfortunately the B781 cannot operate this route nonstop.


The 787-10 can do around 4000 nm/8 hrs with full payload before being MTOW limited.



And as the payload range chart indicated about 6000nm with full pax and bags. Still, better choices for SIN-YVR.
707 717 727 72S 737 733 737-700 747 757 753 767-300 764 A319 A320 DC-9-10 DC-9-30 DC-9-50, MD-82 MD-88 MD-90 DC-10-10 DC-10-40 F-100
 
rbavfan
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like SIN-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 3:30 am

YYZORD wrote:
I was comparing the ranges for both the 787-10 and A350-900 from Singapore Changi and I see that Vancouver is in the 787-10 range while Seattle is a bit off the range. Is this why the SIN-SEA route will have a A350-900 instead of the 787-10? Also what is the feasibility for a SIN-YVR route if the 787-10 was viable for that route vs the feasibility of an A350 being used on the same route like SIN-SEA?

Another thing I wanted to mention about SG's fleet is that I saw the A350-900 range borders both ORD and YYZ so I'm confused as to if the aircraft can also fly to those destinations non-stop or would they need an A350ULR like SG uses on SIN-EWR?


No they can not use the 787-10 for YVR-SIN. It's 6923nm, the 787-10 range with 330 pass is only 6430nm.
 
Overthecascades
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 4:23 am

Untrue. Both Hainan Airlines and Xiamen Airlines serve SEA.

leftcoast8 wrote:
-Sea-Tac has only one Chinese carrier at the moment, Hainan, whereas U.S. carriers have given up on India. Emirates and SQ can handle a lot of the high-yielding corporate demand fuelled by the tech industry, whereas YVR is flooded with Chinese carriers that offer cheap 1-stop flights to India (this caters to the mostly working-class Indian population in Vancouver). I presume that the PRC's Belt and Road Initiative (the so-called "$1 trillion New Silk Road") will only increase the Ind-China traffic in the coming years.

There's a lot of business travel between the Puget Sound and India, despite the Indian population of Metro Vancouver being much larger. Most Indo-Canadians in Metro Vancouver came in three or four waves:

1. The early labourers from Punjab who worked on the railroad, and settled in BC

2. Family reunification after the federal government removed immigration quotas in the 1960s. Many were relatives of the original settlers from Punjab.

3. Starting in 1984-85, many Sikh refugees fled anti-Sikh violence in India that followed Indira Gandhi's assassination (which in turn was triggered by the Indian Govt's storming of the Golden Temple in Amritsar that June). Most of the refugees ended up settling in in Metro Vancouver. Along with family reunification, this was the main source of Indo-Canadian immigration to Metro Vancouver throughout the 1980s and 90s

4. In the post-9/11 fallout, Parliament passed the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act in 2002, which shifted the focus of Canada's immigration policy from poorer labourers/refugees to more highly-qualified skilled workers. Another motivation for this change were the effects of globalization and technological advances in the 90s and 2000s, as well as Canada's declining birthrate, both contributing to a shortage of labour shortage. Much of the Indian migration to Metro Vancouver since 9/11 has been under the skilled worker class, alongside family reunification.

In modern times, the U.S. has had a much stricter immigration policy than Canada, so not as many Indians ended up settling in the Puget Sound, other than skilled workers in the last 10-15 years. They mostly live in Bellevue/Redmond and work in tech.

The long and short of it is, Vancouver's Indian population = mostly working-class, travel to India is biased towards VFR. Seattle's Indian population = mostly professional, travel to India has more business demand. Also many tech corporations HQ'd in the Puget Sound have offices in India; not many companies HQ'd in BC have a large Indian presence. Most of the corporate demand to India is based around Toronto and the 905 belt.

I'm not sure about demand from Seattle to other major Indian centres (Kolkata, Chennai, Mumbai, etc.), nor do I know if there's lots of travel motivated by Seattle's other tech anchors (Expedia, Tableau, Blue Origin, Uber, Lyft, Airbnb, Stripe, etc.) to India or Singapore. Grab, which has taken SG by storm, has an engineering office at the Columbia Center in downtown Seattle.
 
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zeke
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 4:51 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
And as the payload range chart indicated about 6000nm with full pax and bags. Still, better choices for SIN-YVR.


A still air range of 6000 nm would not reach Hong Kong let alone SIN which is another 3-4 hours away.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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zeke
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like SIN-SEA

Thu May 16, 2019 4:55 am

rbavfan wrote:
No they can not use the 787-10 for YVR-SIN. It's 6923nm, the 787-10 range with 330 pass is only 6430nm.


With headwinds it is more equivalent to 7500 nm still air range required.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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seahawks7757
Posts: 207
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Re: Can Singapore Airlines Start SIN-YVR With 787-10 or does it need A350-900 like YVR-SEA

Sat May 18, 2019 11:25 am

leftcoast8 wrote:


-Sea-Tac has only one Chinese carrier at the moment, Hainan, whereas U.S. carriers have given up on India. Emirates and SQ can handle a lot of the high-yielding corporate demand fuelled by the tech industry, whereas YVR is flooded with Chinese carriers that offer cheap 1-stop flights to India (this caters to the mostly working-class Indian population in Vancouver). I presume that the PRC's Belt and Road Initiative (the so-called "$1 trillion New Silk Road") will only increase the Ind-China traffic in the coming years.



Never mind Xiamen and Cathay Pacific.

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