Boof02671
Topic Author
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AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 7:20 pm

American seeks preliminary injunction to halt illegal slowdown by TWU-IAM Association



Team,


We are incredibly proud of our Tech Ops and Fleet Service team members. We are eager to deliver an industry-leading contract. Unfortunately, the union has chosen to illegally gain leverage in contract negotiations by directing a coordinated and deliberate illegal slowdown focused on the maintenance operation.


To date, 125,000 customers have been affected by 650 flight cancellations and more than 1,500 maintenance delays as a result of this slowdown. The data shows the odds of this being random as opposed to concerted activity are less than one-in-one billion.


Today, we filed for a preliminary injunction against the TWU-IAM Association, the TWU and the IAM to stop this illegal activity so we can all get back to running our operation as efficiently as possible.


Most importantly, we remain steadfast in our commitment to reach an industry-leading agreement to benefit all our hardworking Tech Ops and Fleet Service team members. We’ve proposed a contract that is the absolute best in the industry. As proof of this, we’ve offered alternatively to sign a contract with language identical to any other US airline if the union prefers.


While we await direction from the National Mediation Board (NMB), we will continue to care for our Tech Ops and Fleet Service teams. Because current contracts provide different pay rates for holidays and maintain different recognized holidays, we have approached the union to approve a parity plan for both recognition of the holiday and holiday pay. This parity plan would provide 2.5x their hourly pay for all those working on this Memorial Day holiday. Additionally it provides all TWU-IAM team members, on a day off on Memorial Day, holiday off pay equal to their regularly scheduled hours. We hope the TWU-IAM will agree.


Thank you to our team members who continue to give 100% every single day. We appreciate everything you do to care for our team members and customers, and to help your airline thrive.
 
Lrockeagle
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:40 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 7:23 pm

If I’m AA I have non-union management watching and offering significant raises/bonuses to anyone witnessed working their arse off right now.
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 7:31 pm

Obviously they can't give bonuses without the union signing off.

Have airline unions ever not been fined in these cases? Seems like they always loose and it cost the members millions. Why do they always keep trying the same failed tactic?
 
Chemist
Posts: 504
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 7:38 pm

I remember a number of years ago when the pilots were slowing down, we left the gate in Aruba and took 30 minutes to taxi to the runway at a near-deserted airport. The pilot(s) were riding the brakes, even at engine idle, the entire time. We crawled to the runway. It pissed me off. Just another reason to not fly AA, and I'm a million miler.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 7:44 pm

How about Management negotiates a fair contract that satisfies both parties instead of filing a lawsuit against the people that fix your planes? Obviously whatever contract they have proposed is not good enough to satisfy the other party so negotiations must continue.

I forgot this is America where the employees take it with no way to fight back while the CEO and the board makes tens of millions a year then bailout of a doomed company with a golden parachute.
Last edited by SierraPacific on Mon May 20, 2019 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 180
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 7:44 pm

About time!

American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1302
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 7:52 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Obviously they can't give bonuses without the union signing off.

Have airline unions ever not been fined in these cases? Seems like they always loose and it cost the members millions. Why do they always keep trying the same failed tactic?

It’s not a failed tactic, working by the book is perfectly legal and effective, guess you didn’t read about WN and their mechanics?

Only case where fines were imposed was the APA at AA and those fines were never imposed nor paid.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 7:54 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
About time!

American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.

No they didn’t

Concessions



They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1302
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 8:02 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
About time!

American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.

And Delta doesn’t have a contract as their mechanics are non-union.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 8:10 pm

I would contend the union is the one not negotiating. They company has moved on numerous issues all along. The union has not moved on a single one. What the union is demanding is a contract that will have AA spending 40% more for MX than DAL or UA. That is certainly not reasonable nor ever going to happen.

As to "working by the book" if a task historically took 20 minutes and now it takes an hour either the union member was doing subpar/shortcut work previously or is engaging in an illegal slowdown. Either way its easy to prove. I also believe united pilots were fined something 40 million dollars for a slow down years ago. I don't know if they ever paid it.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 462
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 8:14 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
About time!

American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.

No they didn’t

Concessions



They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.



You are not being forthright about the job losses. Not a single current employee losses a job. You are talking about future not even hired employees. Not a single current person has to move either. And even after that AA still does more in house work than anyone else by a long shot.
 
910A
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 8:17 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
About time!

American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.

No they didn’t

Concessions



They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.


Sounds like Mr. Parker has learn well at the knee of W.A. Franke when they were both at America West, run an airline with as few employees as possible, especially mechanics. Christmas time 1995..
Was it Thanksgiving 1997 the majority of the 757 was grounded due to missed inspections, and overdo service.
 
usairways787
Posts: 212
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 8:19 pm

Nobody is slowing down. This is pure bullshit*t by spoiled executive leadership. The operation is falling apart. Piece by piece. No equipment, no man power. Wtf do you want us to do?
Making bag smashing great again
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 462
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 8:30 pm

They just hired 350 Mechanics, increased part supplies significantly and they have bought in all kinds of new equipment what are you talking about?
 
usairways787
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 8:32 pm

You think all of that is instant? It isn't. We're already short a minimum of 400 heads just in rampers alone. Both work groups are called out in this.
Making bag smashing great again
 
Exeiowa
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 8:35 pm

I am not sure companies have quite caught up with the realities of the labour market. In the current climate you cannot treat employees like you could in 2009 when they should be grateful for a job. An injuction on work to rule is hilarious. If you want to see what people having to stick to work rules looks like for companies see what happened to the transportation sector whe electronic log books came in last year. Suddenly there was a mass shortage of trucking once people could'nt dodge the laws as easliy.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 8:53 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
About time!

American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.

No they didn’t

Concessions



They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.



You are not being forthright about the job losses. Not a single current employee losses a job. You are talking about future not even hired employees. Not a single current person has to move either. And even after that AA still does more in house work than anyone else by a long shot.

Not replacing people erodes seniority and noticed how you ignored the rest.
 
usairways787
Posts: 212
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 9:27 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
No they didn’t

Concessions



They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.



Not replacing people erodes seniority and noticed how you ignored the rest.


Exactly. Well stated. Sounds like something Isom would say verbatim. We don't want the jobs, but we want the jobs.
Making bag smashing great again
 
Antarius
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 9:48 pm

The MX delays are getting out of hand. And these are on very new aircraft.

As a passenger, something is definitely amiss.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
SteelChair
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 pm

Alas, this thread gives a little insight as to why AA is such a train wreck right now.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 9:58 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Obviously they can't give bonuses without the union signing off.

Have airline unions ever not been fined in these cases? Seems like they always loose and it cost the members millions. Why do they always keep trying the same failed tactic?

It’s not a failed tactic, working by the book is perfectly legal and effective, guess you didn’t read about WN and their mechanics?

Only case where fines were imposed was the APA at AA and those fines were never imposed nor paid.


The 1999 pilot action? The fine was imposed - by a judge. It was settled between the APA and AA with relaxed scope. Depending on where you sit that's a win or not.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 9:59 pm

All the planes are not brand new, the average fleet age at AA is 10.8 years. Planes have numerous components and they do break
 
Antarius
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 10:05 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
All the planes are not brand new, the average fleet age at AA is 10.8 years. Planes have numerous components and they do break


An average that is pushed up by the 772s, the 763s, 752s and the MD80s. Meanwhile the 77Ws and 787s are much younger.

So, did the MX issues on the 789s and 77Ws just coincidentally start to occur with regularity? Or as a pax who suddenly seems to get lengthy MX delays just unlucky?
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 10:12 pm

Guess you totally ignored the LUS Airbus fleet and there handful of 80s left like 34. 34 out of 963 planes doesn’t really effect the age.
 
Antarius
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 10:15 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Guess you totally ignored the LUS Airbus fleet and there handful of 80s left like 34. 34 out of 963 planes doesn’t really effect the age.


Sure, add the LUS a320s too. I'm an LAA guy, so I know their fleet makeup at the back my hand. LUS, had to look up.

But, you beautifully dodged my question. You think the 77W and 787 issues are just pure bad luck? Pure coincidence that they all stack up perfectly right now? Because you can't blame age.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
Detroit313
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 10:19 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
About time!

American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.

And Delta doesn’t have a contract as their mechanics are non-union.


Did you see something about Delta and a contract? It says better than "what they get". In other words, what they get from Delta. Contract or not.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 10:25 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
How about Management negotiates a fair contract that satisfies both parties instead of filing a lawsuit against the people that fix your planes? Obviously whatever contract they have proposed is not good enough to satisfy the other party so negotiations must continue.

I forgot this is America where the employees take it with no way to fight back while the CEO and the board makes tens of millions a year then bailout of a doomed company with a golden parachute.



How about the union negotiates instead of resorting to illegal tactics to strongarm management into giving them everything they want instead of a fair deal, where both sides feel like they got hosed a little?

The IAM overplayed their hand here, as they saw how WN's "negotiations" went when they had management over a barrel due to the MAX groundings and decided to pull the same maneuvers. AA's exposure wasn't as bad, so management - correctly - took them to court. Expect the negotiations to be even longer as the union has given the company zero incentive to fast-track negotiations, and since the union will be under scrutiny by the court for any shenanigans, the slowdown will end and the operation will quickly recover.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 10:30 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Not replacing people erodes seniority


Typical union mentality; if the company decides they can do the same work more efficiently with fewer people without outsourcing it, why should they be forced to hire replacements in perpetuity when they're not needed? The current jobs are protected, but you're asking for the "work" to be protected forever, and that's the sort of thinking that would have kept buggy-whip manufacturers around today.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
impilot
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 10:36 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Not replacing people erodes seniority


Typical union mentality; if the company decides they can do the same work more efficiently with fewer people without outsourcing it, why should they be forced to hire replacements in perpetuity when they're not needed? The current jobs are protected, but you're asking for the "work" to be protected forever, and that's the sort of thinking that would have kept buggy-whip manufacturers around today.


Who said they aren’t outsourcing the jobs in the future?
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 10:40 pm

impilot wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Not replacing people erodes seniority


Typical union mentality; if the company decides they can do the same work more efficiently with fewer people without outsourcing it, why should they be forced to hire replacements in perpetuity when they're not needed? The current jobs are protected, but you're asking for the "work" to be protected forever, and that's the sort of thinking that would have kept buggy-whip manufacturers around today.


Who said they aren’t outsourcing the jobs in the future?


Who said they are?

Companies find ways to streamline operations with fewer people all the time without farming out the work; a famous case of this was when EA began using powerbacks to move aircraft off the gate instead of relying on highly-paid mechanics to drive pushback tractors. The mechanics didn't lose their jobs, but EA needed to hire fewer of them in the future, and the union threw a hissyfit. IAM chief Charlie Bryan even went as far as to stand in back of an EA aircraft conducting a pushback test in an attempt to stop the test from taking place.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 11:16 pm

They are going to outsource that’s in the company’s proposals.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon May 20, 2019 11:21 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
They are going to outsource that’s in the company’s proposals.


And yet no one will lose a single job.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 12:16 am

Not true
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 12:51 am

Boof02671 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
About time!

American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.

No they didn’t

Concessions



They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.



They want to turn into Delta. All that outsourcing and contract work is the Delta way. What’s sad is new hires at Delta within the last decade bring home less per year than an employee in the 1990’s. Half of the ramp guys either work extra shifts or have a 2nd job. Working full time for 20 dollars an hour doesn’t cover the bills. The contract workers have it even worst they make 12 -15 an hour. It’s mostly immigrants who work those jobs and the companies treat the workers like replaceable machines.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 3:08 am

Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.
 
Antarius
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 3:18 am

Still waiting for an answer on how a fleet with an average age of 3 odd years suddenly and coincidentally starts having extreme MX issues and delays.

*crickets*
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
LMP737
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 3:21 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.


So what do you do for a living?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 3:22 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.

Asinine post, record clerks should be worried.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 3:22 am

LMP737 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.


So what do you do for a living?

He’s a records clerk who is anti-union who thinks Doug can do no wrong.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 3:30 am

Here is a copy of the motion AA filed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-W0RVm ... 2gTb5/view
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 3:54 am

LMP737 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.


So what do you do for a living?


Irrelevant. But it's also a job likely to be replaced by AI.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 4:05 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.


So what do you do for a living?


Irrelevant. But it's also a job likely to be replaced by AI.

Show me a robot that can climb into a bin and stack bags.

Your posts here and on airline forums shows you are anti-union, you couldn’t wait to post it on airline forums and gloat.
 
usairways787
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:42 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 5:39 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.


So what do you do for a living?


Irrelevant. But it's also a job likely to be replaced by AI.


Then you don't have a dog in this fight. Don't come in here bashing those who are actually out here on the line while you sit in the AC and talk sh*t about a contract or our quality of life when you're not even apart of it. You just stay in your little HDQ building that was just built for no reason, and you take your little bicycle around that campus, and say hello to Doug while the rest of out here contribute to something.
Making bag smashing great again
 
KFTG
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 5:49 am

LMP737 wrote:
So what do you do for a living?

Airlines are not jobs programs.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 12:31 pm

KFTG wrote:
Airlines are not jobs programs.


LOL American capitalism is hilarious. Behold the “free market”: When big companies (airlines included) come calling for a bailout, an incentive, otherwise want to feed at the public teet, or want praise heaped upon them for an expansion, they are “jobs creators”.

But when those same jobs are filled with people who can be let go, outsourced, or otherwise squeezed so that bigger checks can be cut to wealthy investors and upper management, they are “not jobs programs”. Got it.
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2039
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 1:28 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
About time!

American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.

No they didn’t

Concessions



They are asking for the following:

8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.


Union members would be wise to take the 401k AND require a big company contribution (i.e. 10%). Otherwise next bankruptcy, they'll just dumb the pension liability. Just ask all the people getting the fraction of their pension payments from the PBGC*. Take the 401k and a big company contribution, and now you control your money. Get laid off, and you just roll your money into your new 401k.

*Off topic: I wonder how much longer the PBGC will be around. They're already billions underwater.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2039
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 1:35 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Show me a robot that can climb into a bin and stack bags.


From one who works in the automotive sector: be careful what you ask for. They do exist. The technology may be too expensive (or fragile for the ramp environment) right now, but so is paying a ramper $200,000/yr (incl. benes) to throw bags. At some point, automation will take over some of the bag loading. How much...depends on the ROI, but as humans get more expensive and robots less expensive...just ask the UAW how it goes.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 1:36 pm

usairways787 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
LMP737 wrote:

So what do you do for a living?


Irrelevant. But it's also a job likely to be replaced by AI.


Then you don't have a dog in this fight. Don't come in here bashing those who are actually out here on the line while you sit in the AC and talk sh*t about a contract or our quality of life when you're not even apart of it. You just stay in your little HDQ building that was just built for no reason, and you take your little bicycle around that campus, and say hello to Doug while the rest of out here contribute to something.

+1
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 1:37 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
About time!

American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.

No they didn’t

Concessions



They are asking for the following:

8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.


Union members would be wise to take the 401k AND require a big company contribution (i.e. 10%). Otherwise next bankruptcy, they'll just dumb the pension liability. Just ask all the people getting the fraction of their pension payments from the PBGC*. Take the 401k and a big company contribution, and now you control your money. Get laid off, and you just roll your money into your new 401k.

*Off topic: I wonder how much longer the PBGC will be around. They're already billions underwater.

The IAMNPF is not exclusive to AA, it’s a multi-employer plan.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue May 21, 2019 1:39 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Show me a robot that can climb into a bin and stack bags.


From one who works in the automotive sector: be careful what you ask for. They do exist. The technology may be too expensive (or fragile for the ramp environment) right now, but so is paying a ramper $200,000/yr (incl. benes) to throw bags. At some point, automation will take over some of the bag loading. How much...depends on the ROI, but as humans get more expensive and robots less expensive...just ask the UAW how it goes.

No ramper makes $200,000 a year. The average with benefits for a topped ramper at AA is $69,000.

Stop with the misinformation.
Last edited by Boof02671 on Tue May 21, 2019 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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