UKFLYER26
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Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:15 am

Morning All,

Searched the forums and couldn’t find this listed, apologies if posted elsewhere.

Reuters reporting Virgin Atlantic is close to ordering 6-10 A330neo.

Link below:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-airli ... KKCN1T308C
Last edited by UKFLYER26 on Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Kindanew
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:18 am

Well, this is unexpected. Clearly they aren’t that impressed with the 787, or is this Delta pulling the strings?
 
8herveg
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:20 am

Would these be to be based in MAN do you think? And to be replaced with the current A330’s?
 
UKFLYER26
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:25 am

8herveg wrote:
Would these be to be based in MAN do you think? And to be replaced with the current A330’s?


My guess is MAN/LGW based, I guess some of the existing A330's will be coming to EOL within the next few years. Could also be used to replace some of the Thomas Cook fleet should that deal be approved.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:32 am

That’d be a nice boost for the A330neo, it’s not a big order by numbers, but VS are quite high-profile. It is a surprise given that they are a heavy 787 user, but then it could be earlier availability, which VS has definitely sought at least once with their A330ceo order.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:41 am

Kindanew wrote:
Well, this is unexpected. Clearly they aren’t that impressed with the 787, or is this Delta pulling the strings?


I'd guess a bit of both, Virgin have been of the most effected airlines by the 787 downtime in recent years, and the economies of scale on an A330neo fleet must be pretty good given Delta's comprehensive in house maintenance of the type.

8herveg wrote:
8herveg Would these be to be based in MAN do you think? And to be replaced with the current A330’s?


Potentially, but I'd guess they'll form a uniform sub-fleet with the existing A330s, cycling around LHR, MAN & LGW - but ultimately it would provide more room in the fleet for growth, which would be focused at Manchester (it's the only place with the capacity for significant expansion, and VS have been opening up several routes there as of late).

I'm not aware of the lease terms on the existing A330s, and obviously the delivery timetable on this potential order would change a lot, but the current 330s seem to have lots of life in them left yet. They're all around 7/8 years old, aside from the 4 recent A330-200 frames (around 17 years old), which VS are currently refitting, so there's no signs of these leaving anytime soon.
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE
 
ITSTours
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:44 am

Very interesting. Delta owning 49% of the airline might have helped.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:47 am

This looks to be a good order for both Airbus and Virgin Atlantic. Yes the A330neo order book could do with bulking up, but people are forgetting the large AirAsia X, Delta & TAP orders - the plane is not majorly short of reputable customers. If the cards align here Virgin could turn into a real force to compete on a larger scale with the likes of BA. With the changes we should start to see following the recent Flybe acquisition, growth at Manchester with the A332s, delivery of the A350s and potential advances in a Thomas Cook Long Haul takeover I feel we may be starting to see the influence of Delta and AF/KL.

Even if this A330neo order doesn't come to fruition, this shows Virgin have an appetite for a further wide-body order at some point and are eyeing growth.

My wild prediction: A220 order for Flybe (Virgin Connect or whatever) in the next few years as well.
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE
 
Motorhussy
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:58 am

So wait, the A350-1000, 787-9 and A330Neo. What does this mean, if anything, for the 787?
come visit the south pacific
 
SQ317
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:02 am

The A330-300s (x10) were sale and leaseback and came online from 2010 IIRC, so it wouldn't surprise me if these were EOL replacements
 
aviationaware
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:06 am

Motorhussy wrote:
So wait, the A350-1000, 787-9 and A330Neo. What does this mean, if anything, for the 787?


Nothing immediate. Leases still running for quite a while.
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:20 am

JamesCousins wrote:
My wild prediction: A220 order for Flybe (Virgin Connect or whatever) in the next few years as well.


The A220 would be amazing, but is it not a bit heavy/optimised for longer range for a network of mostly domestic and near EU routes?
 
sabby
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:30 am

Motorhussy wrote:
So wait, the A350-1000, 787-9 and A330Neo. What does this mean, if anything, for the 787?


Not much, I'd guess they are trying to get the cheapest deal possible whether it is 789 or A339. Just because DL own 49% doesn't mean they will force Airbus fleet on them, they are there to make money not fanboy or stroke egos. Personally, I'd be happy to see another colors on A339, that program definitely needs more order. VS has all the long haul routes covered with 789/A35K anyway so the A339 makes sense as 787-10 is very expensive and larger.
 
Motorhussy
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:34 am

The Reuters article says reporting was from Seoul. The IATA ‘future of the industry’ meeting is currently underway there so the report may have been informed by a high level source at VS or DL.
come visit the south pacific
 
kimimm19
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:39 am

A wonderful addition if true. I think we all will be missing the 2 seats on the windows very soon with all these 777s, A350s, 787s all having 3 seats.

Definitely see Delta leveraging this.
 
ewt340
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:56 am

Seems like they are hooked by A330 low leasing and purchasing prices and efficiency for TATL and European Leisure network.
I think many airlines would started to realized how efficient A330neo is compared to the expensive B787.

The problems with B787 would definitely be the main factor for these purchase.
 
smartplane
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:11 am

Motorhussy wrote:
The Reuters article says reporting was from Seoul. The IATA ‘future of the industry’ meeting is currently underway there so the report may have been informed by a high level source at VS or DL.

Off topic, but the IATA DG's opening address makes informative reading - https://www.iata.org/pressroom/speeches ... 02-01.aspx
 
jumpjets
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:16 am

ewt340 wrote:
Seems like they are hooked by A330 low leasing and purchasing prices and efficiency for TATL and European Leisure network.
I think many airlines would started to realized how efficient A330neo is compared to the expensive B787.

The problems with B787 would definitely be the main factor for these purchase.


Do you really think that Rolls Royce Trent engine problems would drive VS away from Boeing 787s and into the arms of Airbus selling them aircraft powered by, oh yes Rolls Royce Trent engines? And yes I do realise they are different versions.

I suspect the decision, if indeed it has been made, is more economic than mechanical.
 
DCA350
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:23 am

Didn't see this one coming, a nice consultation prize for Airbus after losing the NZ order. The A330Neo needs more help than the A350 anyway.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:31 am

Kindanew wrote:
Clearly they aren’t that impressed with the 787

How is that "clearly"...?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:37 am

I wonder if the Trent and MAX issues have focused minds on not having all one's eggs in the same basket, as opposed to the "single type for simplicity" mantra that has become common currency in the recent past.
 
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Kindanew
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:41 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Kindanew wrote:
Clearly they aren’t that impressed with the 787

How is that "clearly"...?


Well, logic would suggest that since the 787 and A330 Neo are fairly direct competitors, any current 787 operator would probably not be interested in the A330 Neo and vice versa since they do pretty much the same thing.

Just a few months ago when BA ordered the 777X many people interpreted the order as a loss for the A350-1000 even though the 777X is significantly larger.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:42 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Kindanew wrote:
Clearly they aren’t that impressed with the 787

How is that "clearly"...?


I think it says nothing more than the A330neo is a good option where you don’t need the performance of the B789 (TATL being a good example of where that performance is not required).
 
Motorhussy
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:45 am

JerseyFlyer wrote:
I wonder if the Trent and MAX issues have focused minds on not having all one's eggs in the same basket, as opposed to the "single type for simplicity" mantra that has become common currency in the recent past.


This is what helped drive NZ’s GE choice with the 78J choice according to the CEO, streamlining the fleet but diversifying the powerplants.
come visit the south pacific
 
VS11
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:47 am

JerseyFlyer wrote:
I wonder if the Trent and MAX issues have focused minds on not having all one's eggs in the same basket, as opposed to the "single type for simplicity" mantra that has become common currency in the recent past.


Virgin Atlantic has had deliberately Airbus and Boeing planes since the early 1990s. They never went for commonality, they prefer to have Airbus and Boeing compete for their business. Richard Branson got Airbus to throw in free IFE in every seat for VS first A340 order in the early 1990s.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:49 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Kindanew wrote:
Clearly they aren’t that impressed with the 787

How is that "clearly"...?


I'd say they "clearly" won't be happy having had to park up so many 787 for so long and also that the Delta influence is coming to bear too. It may also of course be advantageous to pair the A330Neo with the A350, given the imminent arrival of the latter into fleet. All IMHO of course.
 
jfk777
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:51 am

Delta owns 49% of several airlines that do their own fleet planning or tell Atlanta to keep their advice to themselves. AeroMexico has Boeing 787 for their long haul fleet, a plane Delta seems to have an allergy for. Virgin Atlantic buying A330-900 is their decision.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:59 am

jfk777 wrote:
Delta owns 49% of several airlines that do their own fleet planning or tell Atlanta to keep their advice to themselves. AeroMexico has Boeing 787 for their long haul fleet, a plane Delta seems to have an allergy for. Virgin Atlantic buying A330-900 is their decision.


I might have agreed with you if Virgin didn't already have a significant A330 fleet which they had recently expanded on by 4 frames. VS clearly like the 330 and Delta's comprehensive tech ops has likely been a factor, but it isn't the sole factor.
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE
 
VSMUT
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:02 pm

VS11 wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
I wonder if the Trent and MAX issues have focused minds on not having all one's eggs in the same basket, as opposed to the "single type for simplicity" mantra that has become common currency in the recent past.


Virgin Atlantic has had deliberately Airbus and Boeing planes since the early 1990s. They never went for commonality, they prefer to have Airbus and Boeing compete for their business. Richard Branson got Airbus to throw in free IFE in every seat for VS first A340 order in the early 1990s.


It would be quite a scoop for Airbus if they can sway over an existing 787 customer to the A330neo. Would once and for all cement the Airbus as a serious contender. Who knows how far Airbus is willing to go to win them over?

There is a lot of talk of A330neo orders at the moment, and just prior to Paris Air Show. Cebu, Virgin, IAG/Iberia/Level/Aer Lingus. Is this going to be the year of the A330neo?
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:05 pm

Curious, the 8 747's currently active, when their time comes will they go to the scrapper or VCV perhaps?
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VS11
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:05 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Delta owns 49% of several airlines that do their own fleet planning or tell Atlanta to keep their advice to themselves. AeroMexico has Boeing 787 for their long haul fleet, a plane Delta seems to have an allergy for. Virgin Atlantic buying A330-900 is their decision.


I might have agreed with you if Virgin didn't already have a significant A330 fleet which they had recently expanded on by 4 frames. VS clearly like the 330 and Delta's comprehensive tech ops has likely been a factor, but it isn't the sole factor.


VS has been operating Airbus planes since early 1990s - so they have their own in-house expertise. Delta’s tech ops are hardly a factor here.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:23 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
This looks to be a good order for both Airbus and Virgin Atlantic. Yes the A330neo order book could do with bulking up, but people are forgetting the large AirAsia X, Delta & TAP orders - the plane is not majorly short of reputable customers. If the cards align here Virgin could turn into a real force to compete on a larger scale with the likes of BA. With the changes we should start to see following the recent Flybe acquisition, growth at Manchester with the A332s, delivery of the A350s and potential advances in a Thomas Cook Long Haul takeover I feel we may be starting to see the influence of Delta and AF/KL.

Even if this A330neo order doesn't come to fruition, this shows Virgin have an appetite for a further wide-body order at some point and are eyeing growth.

My wild prediction: A220 order for Flybe (Virgin Connect or whatever) in the next few years as well.


What is unclear to me is whether the order is replacement, or expansion or both (for the reasons below I think the latter).

By 2021/22, VS should have received all 12 A35K, but will have retired 8x B744 and 7x A346. Added to this, the 4x A332 should come off lease.

Whilst retirements can be delayed and leases extended, none of these are long term solutions and absent this action VS would be down by circa 7 airframes from now (albeit the true position is likely to be less if the B789’s serviceability improves as expected).

This does not square with the current and proposed expansion and I therefore suspect these are primarily for expansion (rather than replacing the A333 coming of lease).

If it comes to pass, I suspect the firm order is likely to be close to the 10x mark with additional options on top.

The A338 or A339 would be a good option from each of the UK bases to JFK, BOS, MIA, ATL, IAD,SFO, LAX, SEA, LAS, JNB, DEL, BOM and the Caribbean.

I’d not be shocked to see the A220 at Virgin Connect, but who knows what form that airline will take over the coming years. There is a lot of work to be done!
 
VS11
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:31 pm

VSMUT wrote:
VS11 wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
I wonder if the Trent and MAX issues have focused minds on not having all one's eggs in the same basket, as opposed to the "single type for simplicity" mantra that has become common currency in the recent past.


Virgin Atlantic has had deliberately Airbus and Boeing planes since the early 1990s. They never went for commonality, they prefer to have Airbus and Boeing compete for their business. Richard Branson got Airbus to throw in free IFE in every seat for VS first A340 order in the early 1990s.


It would be quite a scoop for Airbus if they can sway over an existing 787 customer to the A330neo. Would once and for all cement the Airbus as a serious contender. Who knows how far Airbus is willing to go to win them over?

There is a lot of talk of A330neo orders at the moment, and just prior to Paris Air Show. Cebu, Virgin, IAG/Iberia/Level/Aer Lingus. Is this going to be the year of the A330neo?


Airbus proved they are a serious contender long time ago. Their legendary former head salesman retired so the new team may have a different playbook but in the past Airbus were willing to do whatever was needed to close the deal. I do hope they don’t lose their sales mojo though and the new sales team stick to Leahy’s playbook.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:32 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Delta owns 49% of several airlines that do their own fleet planning or tell Atlanta to keep their advice to themselves. AeroMexico has Boeing 787 for their long haul fleet, a plane Delta seems to have an allergy for. Virgin Atlantic buying A330-900 is their decision.


AM's purchase decision on its first 787s (delivered in 2013) came years before DL had its 49% equity stake.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:42 pm

Weren’t the ex Air Berlin A332s a temporary fix at best? Not sure the B744s at MAN all need an A35K replacement, an A330NEO makes a lot more sense IMHO.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:45 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
This looks to be a good order for both Airbus and Virgin Atlantic. Yes the A330neo order book could do with bulking up, but people are forgetting the large AirAsia X, Delta & TAP orders - the plane is not majorly short of reputable customers. If the cards align here Virgin could turn into a real force to compete on a larger scale with the likes of BA. With the changes we should start to see following the recent Flybe acquisition, growth at Manchester with the A332s, delivery of the A350s and potential advances in a Thomas Cook Long Haul takeover I feel we may be starting to see the influence of Delta and AF/KL.

Even if this A330neo order doesn't come to fruition, this shows Virgin have an appetite for a further wide-body order at some point and are eyeing growth.

My wild prediction: A220 order for Flybe (Virgin Connect or whatever) in the next few years as well.


What is unclear to me is whether the order is replacement, or expansion or both (for the reasons below I think the latter).

By 2021/22, VS should have received all 12 A35K, but will have retired 8x B744 and 7x A346. Added to this, the 4x A332 should come off lease.

Whilst retirements can be delayed and leases extended, none of these are long term solutions and absent this action VS would be down by circa 7 airframes from now (albeit the true position is likely to be less if the B789’s serviceability improves as expected).

This does not square with the current and proposed expansion and I therefore suspect these are primarily for expansion (rather than replacing the A333 coming of lease).

If it comes to pass, I suspect the firm order is likely to be close to the 10x mark with additional options on top.

The A338 or A339 would be a good option from each of the UK bases to JFK, BOS, MIA, ATL, IAD,SFO, LAX, SEA, LAS, JNB, DEL, BOM and the Caribbean.

I’d not be shocked to see the A220 at Virgin Connect, but who knows what form that airline will take over the coming years. There is a lot of work to be done!


Agreed. There is definitely unknown contexts surrounding the existing fleet which shape the impact of this potential order. I can definitely see the leases on the current A333s being extended by between 8-10 years, which really kicks the can down the road for their replacement. I'm not sure on the cycles/hours on the A332s, and the influence this has on the timetable of major maintenance checks, but there's probably room for some lease extension on these past the 2021 mark (albeit not by too much).

An A338/A339 split order could be a good solution to both expansion and the ageing A332 frames, but the -800 has shown to be too similar in costs to the -900 to be a likelihood in this order imo. I think if Delta had ordered the -800 it would be a little more likely, especially given it is more rightsized to the 767 the A339 is replacing across the pond.

There's certainly some big decisions to be made over at VS and it should be exciting to see what happens.
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE
 
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Continental767
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:49 pm

The RR engine issues on the 787 clearly spooked them.

I bet they got a killer deal on the NEO. Good for fleet commonality as well.
Indianapolis.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:50 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Weren’t the ex Air Berlin A332s a temporary fix at best? Not sure the B744s at MAN all need an A35K replacement, an A330NEO makes a lot more sense IMHO.


The 747s that cycle round MAN, LGW & BFS are filled to the rafters in the Summer to the Caribbean and, particularly, Orlando with premium Virgin Holidays customers. There is most certainly the need for an A350 sized plane on routes from those airports, even if just seasonally. The A332s from what I understand were a temporary fix for the 787 downtime, but are now being used to open long & thin direct routes from Manchester to the likes of LAX & SFO - they have even recently been refurbed inside with refreshed Economy and new Premium Economy cabins: https://www.godsavethepoints.com/2018/1 ... ew-cabins/

The A332s are ageing frames at around 17 years old each, but should have some good life in them yet.
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE
 
kimimm19
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:54 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Kindanew wrote:
Clearly they aren’t that impressed with the 787

How is that "clearly"...?



Strange logic indeed. That means that 787 customers are clearly not impressed with the A350...
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:54 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Curious, the 8 747's currently active, when their time comes will they go to the scrapper or VCV perhaps?


The A340s should be gone by the end of this year, with the 747s following by 2021. 2 of the 5 retired frames were scrapped, neither at VCV from what I understand.
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE
 
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vhtje
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:36 pm

UKFLYER26 wrote:
[
My guess is MAN/LGW based, I guess some of the existing A330's will be coming to EOL within the next few years. Could also be used to replace some of the Thomas Cook fleet should that deal be approved.


Surely an airline wouldn’t order aircraft until any takeover deal had been both approved and finalised? It would be far too risky to do otherwise
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
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Kindanew
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:45 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Kindanew wrote:
Clearly they aren’t that impressed with the 787

How is that "clearly"...?



Strange logic indeed. That means that 787 customers are clearly not impressed with the A350...


Nothing at all is strange about my logic. The 787 and A350 capabilities and capacities are clearly different from one another. They are aimed at different market segments with the A350 being larger and capable of carrying a heavier payload.

The A330Neo on the other hand is clearly A direct competitor to the 787, albeit one with slightly less performance.
 
musman9853
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:28 pm

Good to see the a330neo Getting some orders. But it'll probably be the a339. Unfortunately the a338 seems more and more like a failure.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:31 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Delta owns 49% of several airlines that do their own fleet planning or tell Atlanta to keep their advice to themselves. AeroMexico has Boeing 787 for their long haul fleet, a plane Delta seems to have an allergy for. Virgin Atlantic buying A330-900 is their decision.


AM's purchase decision on its first 787s (delivered in 2013) came years before DL had its 49% equity stake.
Here's a Boeing press release on AM's 787 order from Nov. 2006.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:10 pm

Continental767 wrote:
The RR engine issues on the 787 clearly spooked them.

I bet they got a killer deal on the NEO. Good for fleet commonality as well.

The same RR engines are on the A330neo, just without bleed air.
 
jfk777
Posts: 6895
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:21 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Delta owns 49% of several airlines that do their own fleet planning or tell Atlanta to keep their advice to themselves. AeroMexico has Boeing 787 for their long haul fleet, a plane Delta seems to have an allergy for. Virgin Atlantic buying A330-900 is their decision.


AM's purchase decision on its first 787s (delivered in 2013) came years before DL had its 49% equity stake.


Did you read what I said, it was AM decision to buy 787 not Delta's.
 
kimimm19
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:23 pm

Kindanew wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
How is that "clearly"...?



Strange logic indeed. That means that 787 customers are clearly not impressed with the A350...


Nothing at all is strange about my logic. The 787 and A350 capabilities and capacities are clearly different from one another. They are aimed at different market segments with the A350 being larger and capable of carrying a heavier payload.

The A330Neo on the other hand is clearly A direct competitor to the 787, albeit one with slightly less performance.


You didn't understand my comment. It has nothing to do with being impressed or unimpressed. In comparison to older aircraft, the new generation aircraft are impressive, especially since Virgin Atlantic have 787s themselves.
 
EChid
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:28 pm

jfk777 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Delta owns 49% of several airlines that do their own fleet planning or tell Atlanta to keep their advice to themselves. AeroMexico has Boeing 787 for their long haul fleet, a plane Delta seems to have an allergy for. Virgin Atlantic buying A330-900 is their decision.


AM's purchase decision on its first 787s (delivered in 2013) came years before DL had its 49% equity stake.


Did you read what I said, it was AM decision to buy 787 not Delta's.

Yeah, I think his point is that they aren't comparable situations. DL didn't have any say in AM's fleet buying strategy as it didn't yet even own the 49% stake at the time that the 787 decision was made. Still, I do think that VS is ultimately choosing it themselves.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
MoreMiles
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 5:04 pm

Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:47 pm

Could A330Neo deal be because of RR? The A35K are likely for A346 and B744 replacement. The A330NEOs could be for replacing the A333s. Just my $0.02
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2045
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Reuters: Virgin Atlantic Close to A330neo order

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:56 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
This looks to be a good order for both Airbus and Virgin Atlantic. Yes the A330neo order book could do with bulking up, but people are forgetting the large AirAsia X, Delta & TAP orders - the plane is not majorly short of reputable customers. If the cards align here Virgin could turn into a real force to compete on a larger scale with the likes of BA. With the changes we should start to see following the recent Flybe acquisition, growth at Manchester with the A332s, delivery of the A350s and potential advances in a Thomas Cook Long Haul takeover I feel we may be starting to see the influence of Delta and AF/KL.

Even if this A330neo order doesn't come to fruition, this shows Virgin have an appetite for a further wide-body order at some point and are eyeing growth.

My wild prediction: A220 order for Flybe (Virgin Connect or whatever) in the next few years as well.


What is unclear to me is whether the order is replacement, or expansion or both (for the reasons below I think the latter).

By 2021/22, VS should have received all 12 A35K, but will have retired 8x B744 and 7x A346. Added to this, the 4x A332 should come off lease.

Whilst retirements can be delayed and leases extended, none of these are long term solutions and absent this action VS would be down by circa 7 airframes from now (albeit the true position is likely to be less if the B789’s serviceability improves as expected).

This does not square with the current and proposed expansion and I therefore suspect these are primarily for expansion (rather than replacing the A333 coming of lease).

If it comes to pass, I suspect the firm order is likely to be close to the 10x mark with additional options on top.

The A338 or A339 would be a good option from each of the UK bases to JFK, BOS, MIA, ATL, IAD,SFO, LAX, SEA, LAS, JNB, DEL, BOM and the Caribbean.

I’d not be shocked to see the A220 at Virgin Connect, but who knows what form that airline will take over the coming years. There is a lot of work to be done!


While everyone obsesses over whether VS is "clearly" unhappy with the 787, you raise a good point - timing. Its very possible Boeing simply cannot meet the timing requirements VS needs, but the A330neo probably has that capacity. I think cost and capabilities may be important, too.

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