ammunition
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Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 1:48 am

Will British Airways ever buy airbus aircraft for its long haul fleet? The A380, is a fantastic plane and would fit right into the fleet on routes to America, asia, e.t.c. I dont think they should get the 747QLR, the A380 will become the new flagship of the skies for many airlines,a nd i dont know how BA could possibly not have it as part of their fleet especially with the congestion at LHR, although the 747 i think will always be queen of the skies.
The A330/40 family is a fantastic family, and with the new members to the A340 family, the A345 and A346, i really think they could work in the BA fleet.
I have never understood why BA always buys boeing planes, when BAE systems which is based in the uk owns 20% of Airbus. Surely BA would at least want to help their own economy strive, which could benefit it in the long run.
but obviously BA is a business set out to make a profit and they will do so in a way that they see fit, and buying the best planes that fit their needs at the time.
Anyway, is it very likely for us to see the A380, or A340/A330 family in the BA fleet within the next 5 years or so? I think they would look fantastic in their livery. Do u think the airbus products would fit into BA in general.
i am in no way anti boeing, so please do not turn this into A v. B., and if you have any comments that are innaproprate- then please refrain from posting them.
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777236ER
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 1:55 am

i am in no way anti boeing riiiiight.

Well it seems they should buy Airbus cos they're so much better, doesn't it? My comments aren't innappropiate, only pointing out that the reasons you give for BA to buy Airbus are a bit stupid.
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yyz717
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 1:57 am

BA doesn't need long range Airbus aircraft. Their 763/772/744 satisfy their needs. BA is an independent company......they are not in business to buy BAe products.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ammunition
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:00 am

i am not anti-boeing, maybe a little biased by my geographic location, but i want both companies to do well, but i do think the A380 is the next big thing in the airline industry and anyone who is not seen with it, will not be percieved as an innovative airline, wanting the best for their custormers with the latest cutting edge technology.
the same goes for sonic cruiser, but in this thread i am interested in the airbus family.
My favourite plane is the 757!!!
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ammunition
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:02 am

yes Yyz, i did mention that BA would but aircraft that suited them best for their needs, but does that rule out a chance of having airbus long haul a/c in the fleet within in the next 5 years or so?
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777236ER
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:03 am

So they should get the A380 because "the A380 is the next big thing in the airline industry and anyone who is not seen with it, will not be percieved as an innovative airline, wanting the best for their custormers with the latest cutting edge technology. "

 Insane

So nothing to do with route-structure, load/future load figures, BA's financial status, company objectives etc?
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ammunition
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:08 am

i dont want to argue, and i know this is a controversial subject, which is why i added the sentance at the end.
and i would rather it be deleted than turned into 'your anti-boeing' and whatever else.
i would like to see the A380 in the BA fleet, what are the realistic chances???
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ammunition
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:10 am

777236ER i did also ask in the opening post of the thread whether any of these aircraft would fit in their current fleet
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OO-AOG
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:11 am

BA has chosen the 777 and the 747-400 for their long-haul requirements so an order for A330/A340 is unlikely to happen. The A380 will probably be an option if a larger aircraft is required in the future.
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ammunition
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:12 am

but surely the congestion at LHR would influence their decision? i suppose they could get bigger varients of the 777 or even the 747QLR
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:15 am

There's a really slim chance that BA could buy A330's replace the 763's for their european short haul and thin long haul routes. But the A330 might be too big to operate on euro routes, but it's a big if. BA would like a long haul boeing fleet and a short haul airbus fleet.

So, who knows? Maybe there could be a widebody bus in BA's fleet, but these are big if's again.

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sllevin
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:15 am

Ammunition:

"image" and "cutting edge technology" were much larger factors in the regulated days when the 747 came out. In addition, at that time, the 747 was a true quantum leap ahead of the 707 and DC-8.

That said, for many airlines, when introduced, the 747 was simply overkill. Various airlines that jumped onto the 747 bandwagon to have the right image lost money on them.

In todays world, people have shown to interested in price and service, and not in "leading edge" especially if, but the nature of losing money, prices have to be higher.

Aviation has become dominated by precisely fitted niche aircraft. The A380 fills a specific niche. At the current time, it appears BA doesn't feel any of it's routes qualify for that niche.

Steve
 
GDB
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:18 am

There are no plans now, but don't be surprised to see the A380 with BA later in this decade, 2008-12 period.
The 744's will need replacement, some of that will be with 777's probably, but air travel will expand again, recently BA have had to turn away pax on N.Atlantic routes, and at work many are having trouble getting their concessional travel to many other places due to full aircraft.
Right now the problem is with the yields.
 
manni
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:33 am

Why BA did not order the A380? They sure have the load and routes to fill them. Mumbai, New Delhi, Johannesburg, Capetown, Hong Kong, Lagos, and the Australian routes (Qantas already has the A380 on order) all cross my mind. Not to mention the bad performing trans atlantic market, wich might get better any day. I guess BA would love to have them in their fleet, but they simply dont have the money to order some IMO. If things get better at BA chances are more realistic that they will fly the A380 in the future. Note that Cathay Pacific (still waiting for their A380 order) and Emirates have a mixed fleet of A330/340 and 777 aircraft, both very profitable airlines. Operating the 777 does not mean that the A330/340 is out of order to BA. Who had guessed some years ago that BA would swap their 737 and 757 fleet for the Airbus A320 series? Something nice to look forward to is the A318 going into service with BA.
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gkirk
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:55 am

To be honest, I wouldnt think so.
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yyz717
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:56 am

BA focuses primarily on the business traveller, far more than most transatlantic carriers. This means frequency. Hence BA is more likely to service LHR-BOS for instance in 5 years with 4x daily 772's than 2x daily A380's.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
roguetrader
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:59 am

I think one thing that should be considered in this discussion is the precarious political situation where BA resides. BA, and the UK in general, are much more closely tied to the USA than the other European airlines and countries. I don't think another European carrier serves even half the number of N.American routes as BA.

The 330/340 probaby could find a place in the BA fleet, and maybe the A380 as well.

However, BA and the UK often try to position themselves as the bridge between the USA and Europe. In many ways they are.

So, BA would not want to risk what has traditionally been its primary profit center (N.Atlantic longhaul) and its reliance on the goodwill of the US gov't and American travellers. It would risk upsetting people on this side of the Atlantic if BA were to develop a favoritism for Airbus.

Furthermore, BA is in a diffiuclt situation with the US where the open skies arrangements are concerned. If BA all of the sudden started buying all Airbus, this might piss-off US regulators even more than their current stranglehold at LHR.

Its better, from a PR and political point of view, if BA tries to keep something like an even mix as between A & B products.

A side note: many of the A380s orders were placed, in my opinion, precisely because of the deadlock at LHR. Without this key problem at a key airport, I imagine the A380 would only have about half of its orders, mainly from its politically oriented carriers in its home countries: Air France and Lufthansa.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
donder10
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 3:07 am

BA could probabarly fill about 3 A380s to Bombay each day right now.The point is the yields would be utter crap.As someone else mentioned,BA are concentrating on the business travellers where the good yields come from.

So, BA would not want to risk what has traditionally been its primary profit center (N.Atlantic longhaul) and its reliance on the goodwill of the US gov't and American travellers. It would risk upsetting people on this side of the Atlantic if BA were to develop a favoritism for Airbus

Do most people know what plane they are on?I doubt it
 
GDB
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 3:16 am

First and Business are full too, but there is lots of discounting going on.
Hence the yield problem, which is slowly improving.
 
donder10
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 3:19 am

There seems to be a thing amongst Euro carriers to carry more and more people.BA are the one who of the few who have gone the other way and reduced capacity.Its a good move IMO for the long term.
 
A388
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 3:19 am

I read an article about the strategy of BA. The airline's CEO mentioned that BA was not interested in the A380 as this aircraft is too big for BA and does not fit in with BA's long term strategy which focuses on adding more frequencies rather than adding more capacity. BA indicated they were interested in replacing their 747 fleet with more 777's, including the 777-300. This again shows their interest in increasing frequencies rather than ordering larger aircraft such as the A380. Even though BA also participated in the development of the A380 they have not shown any interest as of yet. They may have a need for such an aircraft in the much longer term (after 2010 maybe). I don't think we will see an A380 order from BA in the near future.

As for the A380 being the new flagship of the skies for many airlines, I don't think so. Even though I like Airbus aircraft, I do think the A380 is an aircraft that is developed for the niche airlines. I don't think we will see as many airlines flying the A380 in the future like the number of airlines flying the 747 at present. The A380 is just too expensive and too big for them. I do hope that more airlines will order the A380 besides the "expected" ones, such as SIA, Qantas, Emirates, AF, LH but I think their will not be much more airlines ordering the A380 besides the ones who already have placed orders for the A380. These airlines may buy more A380's in the future. I think Cathay Pacific Airways and possibly Japan Air Lines will join the other A380 customers. US airlines may also order the A380 although I think this is not likely to happen any time soon. Many US airlines have already made up their future requirements which primarily focus on the 777 as the new flagship for most of the biggest airlines in the US. UAL and NWA are the only airlines which could become potential A380 operators in the future. AA, DL and CO have already built their long-haul fleet around the 777/767 combination. I don't see these airlines operating any Airbus aircraft types. The 777 seems to be the most favourite aircraft type with US airlines for their long-haul operations.
 
aamd11
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 3:25 am

BA will ahve some Airbus widebodies soon (within 10 years i reckon) but i dont think they will be A380s and i dont think they will cross the atlantic.
The 330s are touted as replacements for the 763s which are leaving the fleet (slowly, and maybe being sold to the RAF as tankers etc.) on Euro routes.

As for an A380 order.... i say 20 years from now and there may be some in the Fleet.
But as for other airnus wides... i think maybe the 330 for EU routes and thats it.

If London gets a new airport any time soon, where capacity can increase montly (a big new airport just out of London with good rail / road links etc) then the A380 wont be needed (but it will be used by airlines who want to be seen supproting European Goverments and manufacturing, the French and Germans only)
 
manni
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 4:16 am

.... the A380 wont be needed (but it will be used who want to be seen supproting European Governements and manufacturing).

AAmd11,

Apart from bad (if you're not a native English speaker, excuse me) writing this sentence makes also no sense on the contet of it. Qantas, SIA, Emirates, Qatar Airways are all based in France or Germany? Thanks for the update, last time I checked they were not.

Also, both Lufthansa and Air France operate a large fleet of Boeing aircraft, the latter one still has some 777-300 on order. I suppose they only ordered them because they want to support the US manufacturers, right?
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racko
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:22 am

RogueTrader,

if you say Lufthansa and Air France order Airbus planes because they want to support their local economy...

How would Boeing look without the huuuge Boeing fleets of all the US Airlines ? Without UA, AA, Delta, Continental etc. ?

Please answer, thanks.
 
OO-AOG
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:29 am

aamd11?

the A380 wont be needed (but it will be used by airlines who want to be seen supproting European Goverments and manufacturing, the French and Germans only)

Yeah, sure  Insane
What are you studying, a MBA (Master in Bashing Airbus)? Big grin
Thanks to Singapore, Atlas and Qantas to support our governments and manufacturing by the way Big grin
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donder10
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:32 am

The reason I dont think BA will order the 330 is that they are downsizing in Europe from the 757 at LHR to 320 and 319.
Alex
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:42 am

Firstly, I think that most airliner decisions at this point on time are based on economics, delivery schedules and the airplane itself and not to support local industry. Of course, there are exceptions and some behind the scenes political pressure, but lots of US airlines fly Airbus products and lots of European airlines continue to buy Boeings in big numbers. I do not think any US or European carrier would buy an aircraft that they did not want or pay too much for an airliner just because it was "politically or socially correct". I am sure that Airbus is not thrilled that both BA and AF have huge 777 fleets, just like Boeing did not celebrate on the day that UA placed huge orders (and follow up orders) for the A32X family,but that is the way that it is.

As for BA, they are hugely committed to the 777 and seem extremely happy with that airliner, so much so that there are constant rumors that BA may trade some 744s for 772 or 773s in the future. BA at many times has looked at the A330-300 for high-density European operations only to pass, probably the correct choice as BA now seems happier flying smaller narrow bodies within Europe and have even pulled some 763s out of service, not to mention selling many 757s to replace them with A32X aircraft to "downsize" capacity. Although one can never say never, it is unlikely that any member of the A330/340 series will find its way into BA's fleet.

The A380 is another story, its a matter of time. Many airlines are being very cautious with this new "Queen of the Skies" as they know how difficult it can be to fill up a 744, never mind an aircraft with 150 more seats. When introduced, the 747 nearly put a lot of airlines out of business, and after the recent downturn in traffic, many airlines are fighting to survive and the last thing they need is a new very expensive and very large airliner to fill up. BA is playing wait and see; there are certain BA routes that could support the A380, especially those between LHR and SIN, HKG, and Australia, where flight timing is limited and LHR is so crowded, and in the future we are likely to see a small order by BA for the A380......after that, I think that the 744 fleet will be replaced by a mix of A380s and B773s plus, of course, whatever comes along in the future.
 
roguetrader
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:43 am

Racko,

How would Boeing look without the huuuge Boeing fleets of all the US Airlines ? Without UA, AA, Delta, Continental etc. ?

I assume Boeing would look bankrupt without the huge fleets of the US based carriers.

Boeing has paid alot of attention to the needs of US carriers. Today, the US is around 40-50% bigger than the next biggest air market, Europe. The point is: Boeing is used to focusing on US carriers because thats where the airline market as traditionally been.

I think the same to some degree is true of Airbus, they're more oriented towards non-US airlines. Hence, the A380, which IMO is in the exact opposite direction of the trend in US business travel: increases frequencies and increased point to point service.

Its just my opinion that Lufthansa and Air France more or less were forced to put in an order for the A380, whether or not it makes sense in their fleets or not. (Obviously, I don't think it does make sense).

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
roguetrader
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:44 am

Racko,

How would Boeing look without the huuuge Boeing fleets of all the US Airlines ? Without UA, AA, Delta, Continental etc. ?

I assume Boeing would look bankrupt without the huge fleets of the US based carriers.

Boeing has paid alot of attention to the needs of US carriers. Today, the US is around 40-50% bigger than the next biggest air market, Europe. The point is: Boeing is used to focusing on US carriers because thats where the airline market has traditionally been.

I think the same to some degree is true of Airbus, they're more oriented towards non-US airlines. Hence, the A380, which IMO is in the exact opposite direction of the trend in US business travel: increased frequencies and increased point to point service.

Its just my opinion that Lufthansa and Air France more or less were forced to put in an order for the A380, whether or not it makes sense in their fleets or not. (Obviously, I don't think it does make sense).

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Udo
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 7:10 am

Oh, since "airlines just order the A380 or Airbus at all just because they want to support their local indutries" then I must ask: Do Australia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Singapore and Memphis, Tennessee, (FedEx) now belong to the European Union?

Could be possible that some people far away over the pond do really think that...


Regards
Udo
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 7:20 am

Airlines don't really give a crap who they're buying from, as long as it suits their requirements, reduce costs and generally economical. United was suppose to be a loyal boeing customer, and look what happened, UA went and bought bucket loads of buses.

So don't rule out anything, just wait and see.

Arsenal@LHR
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racko
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:05 am

RogueTrader, do you have any sources to prove "your opinion" ?

The A380 offers 20% less costs per seat, and AF & LH have routes to fill a plane with other 500 passengers even today.

I'm really sick of this airbus-bashing from some american users.
 
9V-SVE
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:08 am

The A330/A340 will never get into BA's fleet. They only compete with the 777 and BA is extremely happy with them. I imagine in the end they will keep a few 744s and replace the rest with 777s. I predicted that they will have about 50-70 777s in the future.
 
ammunition
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:19 am

im also sick of airbus bashing, its ok for some/most?!?! americans/anti-airbus people/pro-boeing people to question whether an all airbus or majority airbus fleet could be replaced by boeings, yet when the tables are reversed, they fume!!!
EK have stated that they could operate the A380 even today, now with BA being a larger carrier, one might expect that they may order the A380 (not just for that reason of course, but with qatar odering it- (with all due respect)) i would expect larger carriers that were traditionally market leaders who set standards in comfort e.t.c and set an example to other airlines.... to follow. But its economics and what suits an airline and their market strategy, and if that is the case then so be it. Im sure BA knows what they are doing.

I could for example have started a thread saying ' Will Qatar ever operate the 777/747QLR/764', this does not mean i am anti airbus, i am simply asking a question. And what airlines like Air India- will they ever go all airbus/beoing? its rediculous for me to have to explaina nd argue my way out of a question from which no harm was meant, and certainly no arguements. Hence the last sentance.

Both companies are fantastic, both make great planes.
Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
 
roguetrader
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:46 am

Racko,

If you want to talk about the place of the A380 in LH and AF's fleet, either email me or start a new thread on that topic.

My point, in line with the topic of the thread, is that BA and and to a greater extent, other major European carriers, consider political implications of ordering aircraft and this helps motivate some of their decisions.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
donder10
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:49 am

Bigger planes=generally lower yields.
 
Thumper
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 10:48 am

Hey Ammunition and Racko it took a while but we knew sooner or later your true anti-american anti- Boeing feelings would come out! Stop trying to hide it just admit it you will feel better! Why not european carriers buy Airbus's and American carriers buy Boeings then everyone can be happy! Even better why dont europeans stay in Europe and americans stay in America! Boy are these posts getting dumber and dumber! Of course you didn't want to start an A vs B war did you? Of course not!!!!
 
ammunition
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Sun Mar 24, 2002 11:00 am

Thumper- get a life!!!
Im not even gonna begin to explain myself to you.... its quite evident you have not read any of my posts, you are probably the kind i was talking about earlier... the anti-airbus, pro-boeing type.

And for all you who are to insecure to have a decent discussion, please read my thread opener- it is a very balanced view point/ arguement/ question that i put forward. Now some of you are obviously far to insecure, to a point that discussing the possibility of a a new plane, the LARGEST passanger plane to ever be built, entering service within the next 5 years or so into the BA fleet is.... impossible. I see this as somethign massive, a very exciting thing- the prospect of one of the best airlines of my country ordering the A380 Now i dont know whether i should have sympathy on you or laugh at you.
Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
 
racko
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:43 am

Thumper, the only really dump post in this thread i've seen is yours...
 
Scorpio
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:24 am

From Thumper's profile: Age: 56-65. Boy, demention's afunny thing when it hits you, isn't it?
 
manni
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:52 am

Thumper,

You've beaten AAmd11. Now your post is the dumbest in this treath.
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777236ER
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:53 am

Bit a hypocracy there, Ammunition and Racko. Boeing-bashers are just as bad.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
N79969
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RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:59 am

I don't think BA will switch anytime soon because the Boeings perform the job extremely well and the costs associated with a Airbus fleet change/augmentation are high.

I heard that the A380 is not expected to become a big seller (by financial analysts) until the middle or end of the next decade. Airlines with hubs at congested airports such as NRT, LHR, and ORD (JL,NH, BA, AA, and UA) are for most part, reducing their 744 flying and increasing 777 flights. That does not bode well for A380 sales. I know I excluded Virgin but they are more of a niche operator.


I think that A380 is being purchased for both commercial and political reasons. FedEx is a very practical company- they need the lift. The same applies for Qantas. AF has 1 744 left and yet have a few A380 on order. I think that is a political order as much as it is commercial. CDG has plenty of capacity and they could easily fly smaller aircraft on higher frequencies if they desired.

VS, SQ, and EK are known as innovators and the A380 will allow them to differentiate. That's a commercial reason.
 
aamd11
Posts: 863
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 11:54 am

RE: Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 7:07 am

I know not all the airlines are from Europe, but some do need capacity increase... i dont think LH or AF do particularly... that was my point.
I dont see the A380 being a hit for some time yet, it will prove itself over a 10 year period and then maybe when airlines genuinely need the capacity will they switch.
But AF?? i dont know - looks more to me like a political move rather than a business oriented decision.

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