stlbham
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Northwest's DC-10's

Sun Mar 24, 2002 10:26 am

This question probably has been asked many times but here goes again. What is Northwest's timeline for retirement of their DC-10's?

Regards

Brian

 
azjubilee
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Sun Mar 24, 2002 10:35 am

Just heard Anderson say that the DC10-40 retirement is being accelerated with the last ones being gone by the end of the summer season in Aug/Sept. These are being replaced by 757-300s that start to arrive in July.

The DC10-30s will start to be replaced next summer by the A330-300. Pre 9/11 plans were to retain the newest (as new as the late 80s) 12 DC10-30s for HNL and higher density domestic routes.

Question is now, what will go to HNL in the fall? Will we see a shift from the Atlantic with a few DC10-30s or will we see 742s?

Favre... care to comment?


AZJ
 
dutchjet
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Sun Mar 24, 2002 10:42 am

Some DC10-40s are already on the ground.

As the 753s are introduced (from July 2002), I expect that more DC10-40s will be retired and leave the NW fleet. During the first part of 2003, the A330 will join the NW fleet and begin replacing the DC10-30s on the transatlantic runs. The plan is to retire all of the DC10-40s first, so as the DC10-30s leave transatlantic duty, those airliners will see some service on US domestic/Hawaii segments defore eventual retirement. Of course, schedules will be juggled as the new planes arrive. Delivery schedules may be adjusted, but it will take about two to three years for NW to receive the 753s and A330s on order that will replace most of the DC10s.

I say MOST of the DC10s because it is still unclear if a handful of NW's newer DC10-30s (ie, the ex-TG airliners) will remain in the NW fleet to operate some US domestic/Hawaii services.....while NW has said that the primary mission of the A330 is transatlatic services and the primary mission of the 753 is higher-density US domestic routes, little has been said as to which aircraft will operate the Hawaiian services. I would guess that the A330 will eventually take over the Hawaiian routes and NW may, at a later date, order additional A330 aircraft if their finances allow more orders.

 
stlbham
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Sun Mar 24, 2002 11:35 am

The reason I ask I am scheduled one from Minneapolis to Seattle on April 13 I know this will be one of my last chances to fly one of these beautiful beasts.
 
Boeing727
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Sun Mar 24, 2002 1:13 pm

It will be strange to see an Airbus in NW colors, just not right.

Boeing727
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Sun Mar 24, 2002 1:59 pm

It will be strange to see an Airbus in NW colors, just not right.

You never saw an A319 or 320 in NW colors???
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:18 am

Well, I guess that means at least between the end of this summer and at least until the A330's arrive, we won't be seeing any DC-10's flying domestic. I know at least that is the plan for the 753's to take those routes.

AZJ, good question about the Hawaii routes. I guess it would make sense to have a 742 on the MSP-HNL route, but its also possible to see 752's flying West Coast-Hawaii, heck other carriers do that. It would seem like a cut in capacity compared to the DC-10-40's now flying, but who knows. There can't be enough -30's to go around, as they have all the Europe routes covered. Since NW is taking up 2 more 744's this year, maybe they'll have extra 742's because of this, especially if there isn't a whole lot of expansion this year.

 
sas a340
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:22 am

Talking about 747-200, when will they be replaced?
Probably with a340-500?
 
Stretch 8
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:31 am

NW should have retired all of its DC-10s at least five years ago. The fact they are using these old hogs on the transatlantic routes is an embarrasment. Why would I pay the same to ride ont of those dinos when I can fly in a new 744, 777, 330 or 340?
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:58 am

The 742 replacement is pretty far off. Nothing to report yet....

AND BEFORE SOMEONE ASK THIS: THE DC-9's ARE HERE FOR THE TIME BEING, NOTHING TO REPORT ON THEM.

Cut out the crap about the old planes, enough. And those DC-10's flying across the Atlantic, for the most part aren't as old as you thing. 1987 isn't that old. Its your choice who you want to fly, and it you seriously are against flying on an older plane or a DC-10, don't.
 
favre
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Mon Mar 25, 2002 7:08 am

ok lets get this going again...as far i know you will see 757's to hawaii from lax/sea..yes the 757-300's start to arrive in july..7 this year....A330 deliveries start in may 03...last i checked there were only 10 DC-10-40's operating domestic/hnl trips...there is talk of the 757xxx model again for europe service from dtw...hey azj did u here about xj buying pinnicale soon after spinoff?? let me know...
BAE 146 ARJ CV-580 YS-11 SH360 DASH8 SAAB340 EMB 120-135-145-175 DC9/10/30/40/50 MD80/90 DC10 717 727 737 747 757 767 77
 
azjubilee
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Favre

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:06 am

Don't make my hear skip beats like that!! Twice in one post is not cool man...

First: I had a hunch the 757 was going to go to HNL, which I'm sad, very sad about. I was hoping that NW would never sell out like UA and AA and send that accross the pond... but alas, I understand the reasoning.

Second: haven't heard a peep about XJ buying all the shares leftover in Pinnacle... I think that would be a nice investment for XJ, a great way for us to grow, since we're shrinking monthly. However I don't think NW would like that one bit... it would completely destroy their plan for overlapping service in case of service disruption. But hey... stranger things have happend. Is this the buzz over in the MSP buildings at big daddy NW? Foley would love to spend that 130 million in the bank somehow!

Can we see any new service to HNL at all? Like SFO back and the seond LAX flight back? Especially if they'll use 757s, it's got to be cheaper and therefore more profitable eh?

AZJ
 
TimeForFlight
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:15 am

This is slightly off topic but I'll be sad to see the NW DC-10s go! My older brother lives in Minneapolis with his wife and child and when we'd visit them we'd always have to drive by the MSP Int'l Airport to get to their house. Both NW and Sun Country have hangers for widebodies sitting right by the road and the majestic NW DC-10 always caught my eye. Its a beautiful aircraft that looked quite well maintained by NW's mechanics... Farewell DC-10...

Will it be off to the desert with them or is there word on sales/lease? I understand they're aging rather quickly now...
 
acidradio
Crew
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:19 am

Foley better have the checkbook ready, he has an airline to buy!
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
azjubilee
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:39 am

Only the DC10-40s will be gone by the end of the summer. Don't fret, you'll see those majestic beauties crossing the Atlantic for at least another few years. These are the DC10-30s and several of them are relatively new, vintage late 80s. I think they'll go to the desert as they're pushing 30 years of age and are turning into maintenance queens.

Enjoy them while they last!


As far as Foley opening the checkbook, he said that he has investor connections that can raise up to $400 milliion or so. This was for the illfated cargo operation that NW sqashed... so, the money is there in the bank and the potential to raise a ton more is there as well. It'll be kinda funny to see XJ take a majority stake in Pinnacle... sorta flips NW the bird so to speak. Of course, if this is true...


AZJ


 
777D
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:43 am

NWA is going to shoot themselves in the foot regarding cargo revenue if NWA phases out domestic wide body service.

NWA should retain a domestic network of wide body service, believe they will lose customers and revenue from this move.......

757-300 to HNL is probably a good move for passenger service, but will hurt the cargo side..

my thoughts
 
Stretch 8
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 4:25 am

I saw a print add for United in today's Washington Post that was entitled:

"Vintage clothes-cool
Vintage airplanes-not cool"

It went on to state that the UA fleet has "an average age of eight years, which means your plane won't look like a 70's basement."

Another reason why NW should be ashamed of itself. Old, dumpy D9s, 727s, and D10s. Even United is laughing!
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
keesje
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 6:05 am

I personally think United is not laughing at Northwest at this moment .... $$$$

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
triley1057
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 6:19 am

I'm scheduled on a NW DC-10-40 on the 13th of July from LAX to DTW, flight #38. Is that going to change? I feel lucky to be able to fly on a DC-10-40 for probably the last time.
 
nwa747-400
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 8:10 am

NONE of NW airplanes look like a 70s basement and you show you general lack of industry knowledge if you think they do.

EVERY SINGLE Northwest airplane has the same style interior color scheme (navy etc)

All airplanes have had refurbished interiors with the exception of the 727s which were given facelifts to hold them over til retirment this year.

 
nwa747-400
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 8:12 am

Oh- one more thing-

If you are losing BILLIONS of dollars a year, the youngest fleet in the world will NOT save you from BANKRUPTCY!!!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 8:51 am

Alright here,

Triley1057, you are likely in luck of that being a DC-10 flight. Right now if that's what it says, it probably is. They've been running 2 of the dailys between LAX-DTW on DC-10's. However.......and this is a big might, that is a route that will see the 753. Don't know exactly where, when, and how yet. But, your odds are likely that will be a DC-10.

Nwa747-400, you are exactly correct on your statement. All interiors are identical. There aren't any orange seats with flowered wall panels or anything like that. Even the 727's look identical inside to the Airbus. Same colors, almost exact same seats, etc.

The DC-10-40's have been going out to pasture in Roswell, NM. Don't fret. The DC-10-40's have pretty much been on their way out since last summer. This winter, they weren't running too many out of DTW, at least not like they used to a few years ago.

Here's a question for those in the know---I read somewhere on another forum two things. First they were mentioning the 753's being deployed on West Coast-Hawaii and DTW-new, smaller, trans-Atlantic routes. All thats been heard from the reliable sources on here is that the 753's were for domestic runs only. They aren't ETOP's are they? I thought that those overwater routes would be made by the 752's that are/will be ETOPS certified. Also, someone mentioned that the A330's will be put on proving runs domestically at first. I thought that they already would be ETOPs from the beginning and put directly into Trans-Atlantic service.

I'm going to Hawaii this summer and the last time I was in HNL was 1999. Back then it was still the domain of DC-10's, L1011's, and 747's. Virtually no twins whatsoever. I'm sure going to be for shock this summer when I show up over there and see tons of 757's and 767's. It just doesn't seem the same flying narrowbodies out there, but hey, if it makes business sense, then go for it. Its going to be strange flying over there on a 763 instead of the DC-10. Well, I'm determined to fly on one of the last NW DC-10 flights. I know that date is still several years down the road, as we've still got the -30's for a while. These workhorses have put in lots of good time.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:27 am

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!

#1 - the DC10-40s aren't being retired until after the summer season. So if you have a flight BEFORE the end of the summer on a DC10, its a almost sure thing you'll be on the DC10.

#2 - if you believe everything you read in editorials and other articles published by the media you need to find a new dealer for your drugs... because if you think that someone that has no aviation background or training can provide the reading public with facts instead of stupid and noninforming articles then you must be smoking something bad! That is the most hilarious and non thretaning article I've ever heard of... ok teen bopper or sixteen or whatever magazine you read than in.

#3 - the 757-300 isn't going to HNL. It is certainly replacing the DC10-40, but only on domestic runs EXCEPT Hawaii. The bean counters are not stupid at NW and aren't going to do anything that would allow them to further loose revenue... thank you though for your intent on education the professionals.

#4 - the 757-300 is not for international ops... it doesn't hav ethe range to go to Europe from DTW with a full load of people and bags and fuel. The 330 is being brought online for those missions.

#5 - several of the 752s have been wired for ETOPS certification and can be certified if NW choses to go through the process. Until then, we won't see any ocean crossings in the 752.

#6 - The 330 may be certified for ETOPs for NW isn't, hence the domestic proving runs we'll see the 330 deployed on prior to the launch of trans atlantic ops.

Come on guys... lets think before we post and read the other replies before things are posted! No need to repeat what is talked about on a daily basis...

PSU - when you goin to HNL?

AZJ
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 12:45 pm

Goin' over to the island the end of June for 4th of July week. Been over there many of times before. We're going to Lanai & the Big Island actually, just connecting through HNL.
Sorry, we're not taking NW, that ok though, they wouldn't be getting any revenue from us anyways. Kind of wish we were so we could be on a DC-10 instead of a ho-hum 767. We're taking AA onto Island Air and Aloha. Since my dad has a ga-zillion miles to use up on them. He's got plenty of them to use on NW too, but no offense to NW, its just difficult to get 4 free-bee's with them sometimes. I know it all depends on how many seats are allocated for FF's and the like. Thats ok, I've got enough miles sitting around on NW to get some free tickets myself, but I'm saving those for me, I'll let my folks use their miles on me.
Don't worry when I'm on NW or XJ I'm usually a paying customer.

AZJ-You're from the islands right?
 
azjubilee
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 12:58 pm

Sweet, you remember... Yup, I was born and raise in HNL actually and am a transplanted hapa haole basically. I make it back to the islands every other month or so. I might head that way next month before recurrent ground school, then again possibly in the summer, that's the reason I asked when you were going.

Lanai is very nice... if you haven't been there before and you like relaxation and pristine beauty, you'll love it. Not to mention the food, drinks and other activities at the resorts.

This is getting a bit off topic... maybe we can email?

AZJ
 
BestWestern
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:59 pm

The excellent customer service at NW far out weighs the fact that you are travelling on an older aircraft.

When NW have the A330 alongside the excellent staff, they are really on to a winner.

You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Stretch 8
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Tue Mar 26, 2002 11:52 pm

Not to Europe, they won't. For me from my home airport IAD, only BA (with beautiful 777s and 744s) have the schedule (3x plus a morning flight from IAD), service, and style that I like (Club World flat seats).

NW from IAD (besides the milk runs to DTW and MSP in 40 year old D9s) has a single D10 to AMS. I was there the other night and saw the check in line for the flight; Lord, the motley lineup reminded my of old Ellis Island photos. And the rust bucket D10 was delayed due to a hydralic problem, or so someone said.

If I am heading to Michigan to visit relatives, I will drive. The only NW service I might consider would be to Japan, but I can take a NS ANA 777 from IAD to Tokyo.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
azjubilee
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:34 am

Stretch 8... then do that. Why complain about NW when you don't even plan to fly them?

Get your facts straight... DC9s are not 40 years old, the DC10-30s aren't as old as you think, and 777's have maintenance problems as well. There is an 830am airbus flight to MSP, so you do have a choice. The 330s will replace ALL the atlantic flying over time on the DC10. They will have lie flat world business class seats as well as on demand video in all classes.

It isn't worth arguing with you, but I'll respect your opinions, even if they're not based on real facts that matter.

AZJ


 
Stretch 8
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:12 am

Good grief AZJ, lighten up! Didn't you see the sarcastic humor in my observation of the poor souls lined up at the NW IAD check in for the Amsterdam flight?

Okay, perhaps the last NW D9 I flew on was not 40 years old, but the "Douglas Aircraft" manufacturer stamp in the door frame indicated final assembly in June 1967! (Yes, the interior looked new; but the flight deck looked like the Spruce Goose).

NW simply does not have the service I need from IAD, and I don't want to connect through MSP or DTW; I can fly UA or AA NS to LA (and gaze out over the "flyover states" while enjoying an imported beer).

My brother flies NW to LA from Detroit twice a month; given all the money he has sent their way, they are thinking of naming a new 330 after him. I get my NW intel from him, not starry eyed A.net geekazoids (not you personally, BTW)
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 7:53 am

Well, can't argue against non-stop service. Thats a good reason to choose on carrier over another.

AZJ-Can't be too off topic, as long as the words "NW" or "DC-10" show up somewhere, I thought that was the title of this topic at one time or another. My email is in my profile. Thats the hotmail one. My university email is secret to users on here, so I can keep it free of spam and porno ads.
 
nwa747-400
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 8:21 am

Stretch 8:

I hope that wasnt some form of racist comment you were making about the passengers flying NW IAD-AMS because those kind of comments can get you kicked off this site.

Also, quit complaining about the DC10s, they are scheduled to be replaced next year so what is the big deal.

P.S. My father flew the new Club World on BA and said that sitting in the middle of 4 seats is not his idea of Business Class service!
 
Guest

RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 8:54 am

Stretch 8, I was on the evening flight to AMS earlier this year. After I boarded the NW DC-10, I had to sit in the stuffy cabin for an hour and a half because the old fart of an aircraft had major problems with its radio frequencies and other stuff. Then, because of those problems, additional refueling was required because, according to the captain, the plane's radios were screwed up, so they had to fly a more northerly route to AMS. I tell ya, people often say how good NW's DC-10 maintenance is. Well, I beg to differ.......
 
HUYfan
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:08 am

if NW dont get those 330s into transatlantic duties quick-sharp, NW will lose it's premium travellers, the WB cabin on NW dc10s just doesnt compare to say the UA 777 cabin or the US 333 cabin, and the fantastic new Bmi 332s. It baffles me why NW have left it so long when everyone else seems to be moving with the times, for f*#@s sake, KLM got rid of their DC10s yonks ago!

regards
 
zeus01
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:12 am

Night Cruiser:

I don't think you truly understand the airline industry if just because a radio wasn't working properly, you think that all DC-10s are not well maintained. IT HAPPENS TO ALL PLANES. Stuff breaks, new or old, well maintned or not. I have plenty of crap happen on new airbueses , 744's and even yes, the almighty super awsome 777. The auxilury powerunit wasn't working right. Does that mean that all of CO's 777's are bad????????

Common Night Cruiser
 
UPS763
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:14 am

Nwa747-400,
I couldnt agree more. Anyone stating that NW's aircraft look like a 70's basement much not have much knowledge of the industry. Though some of their fleet is older then other's in the industry they are maintained too 100%. NW's planes are paid for and during this uncertain time in aviation I would much rather have a fleet of aircraft that are paid for. As for a Spruce Goose cockpit, so what! There is nothing wrong with the older "steam gauges" Besides everything NW has excellent service, much better then United. I would never hesistate to fly any older NW aircraft and personally would rather fly a DC10 over a 777 or A330. If you are afraid of the older aircraft dont fly on them.

 
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ATA L1011
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:18 am

Aren't the DC-10-30's going to be used on the Hawaii runs once the 40's are gone. i heard that they were going to transition as the 40's go and as 330's come on line.
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:48 am

ATA L1011---You're question has been answered about four times already in this post.
Read AZJ's, Favre's, and my previous posts. The answers can be found on here.
 
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ATA L1011
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 10:00 am

Well PSU I dont read all the post, no need to get smart bud! Just say refer to a certain post if you know the answer! thanks have a good day PSU
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
Guest

RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 10:45 am

To add a small note, HNL isn't totally the domain of the 757/767 now that the trijets are leaving. United flies the "almighty super powerful" (I love whoever said that) 777 and the 747-400 (from NRT) to HNL.
 
zeus01
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RE: UAL 1837

Wed Mar 27, 2002 10:58 am

I said the 777 was the "almighty super power". BUT, with much sarcasm. Glad to see you liked it!
 
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coronado
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:32 pm

Northwest Flight 1 from MSP to LAX during May 2002 is listed as operating with DC-10-40's connecting to 747-200's to Tokyo NRT. In Feb they had an A320 on the domestic segment of Flight 1.

IN these tough times is it smarter for UA and CO to park brand new aircraft in the desert while continuing to pay millions a month in lease payments to the owners of the planes or for NWA to park a few DC-10's that are fully paid for? I predict NWA will be the first major to report a profit following 9-11.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
zeus01
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:54 pm

NWA Flight #1 is now operated with a 752, i checked it yesterday on flight tracker.
 
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coronado
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:13 pm

Zeus01- No disagreement. NWA has always had a knack for switching equipment to fit the ticket sales.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
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coronado
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:17 pm

This is what I flew on 12Feb2002
Tue 12-Feb-02

1530 mi (2462 km)3hr 56mn Minneapolis (MSP)Depart 7:16 AM to Los Angeles (LAX)Arrive 9:12 AM Flight: 1

Economy/Coach Class (19A), Breakfast, Airbus A320, 80% on time
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
Rhino4ever
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Thu Mar 28, 2002 12:23 am

the remaining 12 DC-10-40's will be retired by Sept 3, 2002. Announced last week by R.A. Moved up from 9 this year and 3 next year. Remaining DC-10-30's slowly phased out over next 4 years...
 
azjubilee
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Thu Mar 28, 2002 2:28 am

Rhino -

Is it still the plan to retain at least 1 of the -30s for HNL and high density domestic routes.. as announced last year with the large a/c order? I know things are different post 9/11 but just wondered if that was still in the long term plan. From your post, it doesn't sound like it. Wonder what they have planned for HNL if all 24 330s replace the DC10-30s accross the Atlantic and another order isn't announced soon?


AZJ
 
azjubilee
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Oops

Thu Mar 28, 2002 2:29 am

That 1, in my previous post ought to read 12... 12 DC10-30s to be retained... not 1.
 
Continental
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Thu Mar 28, 2002 2:31 am

I thought that NWA's 747-200 already serves PHNL. Some person I know left on Thursday for PHNL and was on a NWA 747-200.

Continental
 
zeus01
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RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:21 am

NW serves HNL from MSP in the winter with a 742. Everyone wants to get out of this damn cold state i guess.
 
azjubilee
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Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Northwest's DC-10's

Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:40 am

Zeus is correct... MSP-HNl gets a 742 in the winter. NRT-HNL also has 2 daily 742s configured for the beach market. The MSp_HNL flight will go back to a DC10-30 in the summer.


AZJ

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